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Partial count shows Amazon workers rejecting union by a 2-to-1 margin
- Thread starter SilentPanda
- Start date
- News
It's probably not a risk people are willing to take when the threat of losing your job for the possibility of unionizing is real.
This is sad thinking as there are other countries with public healthcare, sick days and other social nets yet unions still exist.
I'm in a union as well and the positives you list also apply to me but I'm in Canada.
I think what a lot of people miss that's really important is that with unions there's more power given to employees. There's collective bargaining that can allow for better conditions for employees as well as ways to improve their own careers. It might not be instant, but bettering things are never easy and it's always a constant battle.
Lol we can't even get the Dems to change of the filibuster. We aren't passing the Pro Act.
It depends on the industry. In logistics the benefits tend to be very minor these days and given how relatively well Amazon pays it shouldn't come as a surprise that employees wouldn't support it. Most will see a vote like this as a choice between a guaranteed $X versus a risky $X+1, where the additional benefits aren't worth the risk of losing everything that comes with the job. They're well aware that Amazon doesn't care about them and will toss them to the curb as soon as they can if they unionize.
Unionization in the US is a chicken and egg scenario, where workers don't join unions because they are weak and unions are weak because no one wants to join them, and that will continue going forward until the government completely overhauls labor relations to empower unions. Until that happens labor at best can hope to win some battles while losing the war.
I'd imagine some of them might have been in a union before. I was in one working at a grocery store, and the main thing it did was cap my earnings potential since raises were fixed and everything went by seniority. I ended up getting a another job at the grocery store down the street and got 3 years of the fixed rate union raises in my first year. I'd imagine unions are better for higher end jobs, but at the lower end I certainly didn't see much in it for me.
That's because DC is a very concentrated area, when in the other instances you're getting the average from the entire state.
I worked in a similar grocery union twice and it sucked. Worst time. I work for a more powerful crafts union now and it's great. It just depends.
The problem with U.S. unions is that they have been vilified and they have also been largely neutered over the last several decades, making them less effective as both an organizing pro-labor force and weakening their overall political capital and influence in affecting meaningful policy change at the state and federal levels.
I'm a teacher in California and while the union has secured me a very good salary, due process, and collective bargaining, I still consistently encounter the many limitations of our local and state-level union. This is evidenced in recent events where our Democratic governor (Newsom) effectively cut unions out of the decision-making process regarding how to reopen schools safely despite that union voting block being a significant component of his initial electoral victory.
We need heavy unionization in this country but as others have said it's going to be a very long, protracted and uphill battle and I can understand why people are afraid of voting this in when the threat of termination looms. There are systemic and institutional issues that have eroded worker's rights in this nation to the bone and we can't expect people who are just scraping by to make some grand, glorious symbolic stand when they have bills to pay and children to feed.
I'm a teacher in California and while the union has secured me a very good salary, due process, and collective bargaining, I still consistently encounter the many limitations of our local and state-level union. This is evidenced in recent events where our Democratic governor (Newsom) effectively cut unions out of the decision-making process regarding how to reopen schools safely despite that union voting block being a significant component of his initial electoral victory.
We need heavy unionization in this country but as others have said it's going to be a very long, protracted and uphill battle and I can understand why people are afraid of voting this in when the threat of termination looms. There are systemic and institutional issues that have eroded worker's rights in this nation to the bone and we can't expect people who are just scraping by to make some grand, glorious symbolic stand when they have bills to pay and children to feed.
Where are you creating the custom Simpsons gif and how do I that thing
I wouldn't vote for it. Amazon would just leave. I saw a union vote go in favor of the unions 6 years ago. Today the company shifted a shit ton of those jobs out of state. It took time but it happened.
Welcome to the world of Frinkiac
The PRO act is great and I really hope it passed, but what would have really helped in situations like here is card check.
And I hope there is a renewed interest in the Democratic party to get it done, channel the ghost of Ted Kennedy and dust off the old EFCA bills.
And cut your nose to spite your face? I don't know. It's possible they could, but I think there are too many ramifications they wouldn't want to face, such as potential protests and a public backlash. This attempt to form a union has gotten national attention, so I'd think amazon wouldn't want to react by just closing the facility.
No we don't. You've obviously never been in a shitty union before. No one should be forced to join a union.
OP
OP
Amazon workers in Alabama vote against forming company's first union
www.theguardian.com
Amazon workers in Alabama vote against forming company’s first union
Workers at Bessemer warehouse reject joining RWDSU but legal challenge looks inevitable due to high number of contested ballots
www.theguardian.com
Amazon's ass needs to be sued hard.
Bezos and his cronies should never sleep peacefully as long as they live.
Bezos and his cronies should never sleep peacefully as long as they live.
Outside of government not many parties have deep pockets to maintain a prolonged legal battle against Amazon.
2 Amazon workers explain why they voted against unionizing
Before the result of the Amazon union vote was announced on Friday, we spoke to two employees about the reasons they voted no.
www.businessinsider.com
They would move the plant. At the end of the day people knew this and had to vote in their better interest. There needs to be a push to more pro union laws in this country for any real change to happen. I'm part of a labor union and wouldn't have it any other way. Management hates having to deal with a union but these guys have actively tried to steal our memberships wages and constantly have to be reminded of our safety policies. Without a union my job would be a horror show.
People being anti-union is weird to me because I grew up learning in school that unions were a great thing. Im only 27 so its not like something that they stopped teaching a long time ago. What gives???
It's really disappointing because the framing is focused on the union's use towards increasing wages instead of utilizing them to combat Amazon's blatant disregard for safe working practices in the warehouses. This is really upsetting to me.
New York Committee for Occupational Safety and Health produced a report on the Staten Island facility in 2019 when they were looking to unionize and their findings are really sad to see.
This doesn't seem to be all that uncommon considering how often we hear reports of not just employees peeing in bottles, but people severely injured or dying on the job.
Unions are critical for Amazon Warehouse employees.
New York Committee for Occupational Safety and Health produced a report on the Staten Island facility in 2019 when they were looking to unionize and their findings are really sad to see.
This doesn't seem to be all that uncommon considering how often we hear reports of not just employees peeing in bottles, but people severely injured or dying on the job.
Unions are critical for Amazon Warehouse employees.
I fully understand how much pressure union busting puts on employees. I get the battered wife syndrome and fear of losing a job. But 2-1 is another level. A total blowout. Absolutely devastating. It strongly suggests (even to me) bad working conditions were not as widespread as I believed and workers are generally happy with their compensation.
Otherwise it would be a closer vote. Nobody expected a win here, but a loss like this sends an unambiguous message that organized labor is dead when it comes to Amazon.
Otherwise it would be a closer vote. Nobody expected a win here, but a loss like this sends an unambiguous message that organized labor is dead when it comes to Amazon.
Depends what Amazon's response is.
If they pick up and move the warehouse, then I think the rest continue to fall in line. Having said that, I have no idea how hard or expensive it is for them to do that, but making everyone else fall in line may be worth the loss in revenue.
That's not necessarily the case, we don't know how much of it is actually worker satisfaction vs. anti-union propaganda. Amazon has a huge influence on that front since they can bombard employees with messages suggesting workers have isn't good and don't need a union. Along with apparent beliefs that amazon would just shut down the facility in reaction if they did lose.
There are a ton of factors influencing the "No" vote beyond worker satisfaction. The 2-1 result isn't reflective of the true outcomes in this case.
In the nicest way possible, I think people here are reasonably well-informed. But I also think in some ways it elevates people to a different place than the people who we want to be helped.
Not excluding myself; mind. Just that your post is a good reminder to reel it in & empathize.
I can totally understand why they wouldn't go the union route based on possible blowback, even though it would have been an important signal to send nationally.
We are talking about what could very well be the best paying job in the Bessemer area for someone with their skill set. There is a lot of pressure not to fuck that up regardless of working conditions.
"What if we lose some of our free time? Is it going to protect our jobs? How it will affect my schedule and my accruing PTO or sick leave? How much is it going to cost me. What's going to keep the company from retaliating later on?"
Valid concerns that are only an issue thanks to systemic weakening of unions. There are so many simultaneous efforts for change that need to happen to do anything. Until then, let's enjoy our failed state.
Valid concerns that are only an issue thanks to systemic weakening of unions. There are so many simultaneous efforts for change that need to happen to do anything. Until then, let's enjoy our failed state.
Working conditions might be as bad and widespread as believed, but at the end of the day if the decision is between a $15/hr paycheck and no paycheck at all, lots of people are willing to stomach shitty conditions for good pay. Better working conditions isn't much of a benefit if there's no job period. Easy to see why so many opt for the devil you know.
I feel like many young people don't like unions because they feel they can outwork the older people, since they by and large have less commitments and more flexible schedules, plus, well, they're younger. Maybe they even buy into the corporation is your family stuff and you need to kill yourself to get ahead. Then they get older, have families and other commitments, discover the corporation is not your friend and that without a union the company will replace you with a younger, cheaper worker as soon as it's feasible to do so.
Not surprising. Companies have spent countless resources convincing people that unions are bad and unnecessary. Hell, at a few of my jobs more time was spent watching anti-union videos and listening to the trainers anti-union follow-ups during training than actually teaching us how to do our jobs. I knew it was bullshit, but far too many will willing drink that cool-aid.
Maybe the whole effort just got less popular as the Yes vote message became less about fixing issues with this specific workplace and more about a national fight over disconnected, non-germane parts of a wider agenda.
also from the same NYT article
also from the same NYT article
At a super low end job like a grocery store the only thing you have working for you is that you can maybe you can catch someone's attention to get a raise or maybe move up in position. A union at a very low end job works against that and you are basically consigning yourself to treading water at the bottom of the totem pole with very little potential for improving your status there. The only way to better your status in the near term is to leave.
Yeah. I'm baffled whenever I see these company-made anti-union videos, because honestly, I don't even know how you get out of that quagmire without banning these videos. I'm not American and assume this is a first amendment thing, but I'm pretty sure these kinds of official, overt anti-union activities are banned in a lot of countries. You can't create a framework where a healthy approach to defending workers rights exists without setting limits to how hard you can campaign against unions.Just about every reason the no voters gave sounds like they came from the anti-Union videos companies show during on boarding in the retail sector. It is sad how much anti-Union propaganda companies are allowed to show their employees to condition the employees against unions. This country's labor conditions as a whole will only get significantly better with regulations and laws at the federal level.
2 Amazon workers explain why they voted against unionizing
Before the result of the Amazon union vote was announced on Friday, we spoke to two employees about the reasons they voted no.www.businessinsider.com
Just like everyone else said, if they voted to unionize, Amazon would have move the place. Now, I can almost guarantee that Amazon is going to "reward" these workers, be it with a slight pay increase, or time of or something as banal as a pizza party and some of the people that voted no will feel justified that Amazon "cares"
This sorta reiterates the "we started looking over the people we were supposed to be helping."
Which I feel happens often in today's society. There are many of us connected on the internet who know how to do "the right thing™", which looks good to each of us.
But then there's everyone else in those areas looking to make their individual lives better. All activism isn't equal.
Def not letting Amazon off the hook for its actions here, but now it's looking like a messier combination of things that led to this result.
Thanks for sharing.
Amazon is so huge they definitely could. One of the many issues with having companies grow to be so big and powerful.
The Nation has an excellent post-mortem up:
Blowout in Bessemer: A Postmortem on the Amazon Campaign | The Nation
I think it can both be true that the deck is completely stacked against the union in a lot of ways and at the same time key mistakes on how things were organized were also made. But I find it really hard that even if the organizers had corrected the items in that critique that they would have won the vote.
But, as the author points out, Amazon's behavior certainly leaves the door open for another vote again later where they can fix some of these issues.
I still feel like it's a sort of same situation as subsidence farming vs. factory work in developing countries. Yes, the factory work is hard, but it's still better work than other things available in that market. I think labor organizers will find more successful ground in places where the management is full on shit tier AND grossly undercompensates workers, such as private equity firms and elder/assisted care.
Yeah, I can see that being an issue with other things too like maternity and sick leave where one group of employees feel they have to constantly cover for others for the same pay. But I don't think anyone from the younger generation buys into the corporation is their family shit.
Louder for the people in the back.
I'm pro-Union overall and it's clear this country needs something to give power back to the masses and to the workers. Things are being more fucked up by the day.
But I'm not surprised at all the angry/disappointed replies to this topic from people who have never actually been in or been close to a union are ignoring you, someone with direct previous Union experience.
Some people's thinking can't evolve beyond "union good."