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Anno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,950
Columbus, Ohio
The counties map in 1066. It's so pretty.

county.jpg
 

Anno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,950
Columbus, Ohio
More options for vassal contracts. Send your spymaster to dig up some of their dirty secrets then leverage them to force your vassal into gavelkind.

xpb5m1klbxy41.png
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
Fuck, it all looks so good!

I just have to decide how badly I want it day 0, considering how I did the same with Imperator and then not only was it bad, they added it to Gamepass almost immediately. I'm not super worried about the first, but the second... that stung.
 

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal
That's the map when you pull it all the way out.
it is really pretty. I have to say. I'm super impressed with this map. Imperator Rome was also amazing. The difference in quality between those and the current games is off the charts!
Maaaany mountains, deserts, and dry, inhospitable steppes
I was talking more about the literal east border of the map not being a straight line. It makes the map look torn.
I don't think i ever had a strategy game that didn't have very well defined borders on the map.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489

Nice!

Makes my life easier :D

And karnage10 I think I get what you're getting at, and I agree, I think they're signaling a significant eastward expansion at some point. The fact that they're not including merchant republics day 1 says that they're probably going to take a more involved approach to alternative governments, which would give them room to add China.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,397
Although I could easily have Game Pass for PC then, I dunno that I want to roll the dice with their flakey service. Having a corrupt install and losing my saves would be devastating.

I'd rather just pay the blood price and buy it on Steam or something, where I know I have control of the game.
 

Anno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,950
Columbus, Ohio
It'd going to leave the service at some point so I feel like I may as well just buy it to begin with. That's not even considering having to buy DLC anyway or the lack of the Workshop.

Seems like a good/cheap way to try it, though.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
I might buy it somewhere down the line for DLC pricing reasons or mod support, but at launch? No brainer.
 

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal
Personally i'm buying the CK3 with DLC "pre-order" for steam. Even if the game is mediocre I think I can play it for dozens of hours and thus,for me, worth the price.
I'll be fair even the "bad" games of PDS like imperator rome and hearts of iron IV at launch were fun to me. At least much more than what the most games that charge 60€ are. looks at spider man
I also have a lot of bad experiences with xbox game pass and i just don't want to deal with that hassle. Alongside that I know that mods and the ability to dabble in game files can possibly solve many issues that i might have with the game.

Does anyone know if there will be possible to play between windows store and steam?
 

Deleted member 18857

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,083
I'll be fair even the "bad" games of PDS like imperator rome and hearts of iron IV at launch were fun to me. At least much more than what the most games that charge 60€ are.
I'd like to avoid souring myself on the game. I bought Stellaris at launch, and it was so shallow I didn't touch it again until a few months ago.
Ironically the thing I liked the most in that version (the three types of interstellar flights) was one of the first things they removed in order to make the game better...
But yeah, as you said, it's a game to be played for years and years to come.
 

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal
I'd like to avoid souring myself on the game. I bought Stellaris at launch, and it was so shallow I didn't touch it again until a few months ago.
Ironically the thing I liked the most in that version (the three types of interstellar flights) was one of the first things they removed in order to make the game better...
But yeah, as you said, it's a game to be played for years and years to come.
For me stellaris was great at launch. yeah it had a lot of bugs and it was rather shallow but roleplay as galatic empires never got old.
For me PDS is really good at making me lost in their games. It is usual for me to play one of their games for 5 mins and BAM 5 hours have passed.
But make no mistake those that wait for the first few DLC will be having a much better experience then those buying at launch.
 

AquaRegia

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,670
Big Paradox sale on Steam. Most CK2 expansions are 50% off, but Horse Lords is showing (and let me download) at 100% off.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,984
I will most likely get CK3 at launch and just hope it's fun even if incomplete.

I still enjoyed Stellaris at launch as it was. Very fun to play. On the other hand the launch has ruined Imperator for me. Even to this day I can't get into that game.

So let's see what happens. Hopefully they learned from the Imperator bottle job.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,397
I thought Stellaris was the best space 4X, right at launch. Though it has improved a whole lot since then. That said, I'm really glad they basically redesigned it from the ground up so it could embrace grand strategy elements more--it was a bold choice, and it is hella paying off.

The galaxy is vast and full of wonders, as they said it would be.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
I liked Stellaris a lot at launch, but the change to planetary development took it to a whole nother level imo.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,397
Stellaris' planetary overhaul improved things way more than I ever would've expected. Splitting planetary buildings into slots, and regular tiles into pop "jobs", on top of the resources add gives so many more things to play with when managing an empire. You can have a bustling planet of bureaucrats and commerence but little resource production--like Coruscant--with an underclass powering its economic machine; you can have a rural farmworld dominated by a criminal syndicate; a forge-world used purely for mineral extraction and refinement, harshly policed and populated by slaves and droids; and you can even have a planet without commerce of any kind, instead run by machines or hive-minds that have no use for such things.

It's just so expressive in a way that the old system never was. You can now look at a planet and have its attributes tell a story.

I'm so happy Paradox is embracing the storytelling/roleplaying aspect of Stellaris, because that's really where it shines brightest.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
Stellaris' planetary overhaul improved things way more than I ever would've expected. Splitting planetary buildings into slots, and regular tiles into pop "jobs", on top of the resources add gives so many more things to play with when managing an empire. You can have a bustling planet of bureaucrats and commerence but little resource production--like Coruscant--with an underclass powering its economic machine; you can have a rural farmworld dominated by a criminal syndicate; a forge-world used purely for mineral extraction and refinement, harshly policed and populated by slaves and droids; and you can even have a planet without commerce of any kind, instead run by machines or hive-minds that have no use for such things.

It's just so expressive in a way that the old system never was. You can now look at a planet and have its attributes tell a story.

I'm so happy Paradox is embracing the storytelling/roleplaying aspect of Stellaris, because that's really where it shines brightest.
It's both more expressive and less micromanage-y. No more messing around with adjacency bonuses and shit.
 

RedSparrows

Prophet of Regret
Member
Feb 22, 2019
6,477
I am playing Stellaris on Xbox (YES I KNOW I COULD PLAY IT ON PC BUT I AM WEIRD OK) and whilst I like it, my current game has had a lot of downtime where I've been waiting to do things. I could have had way more wars, but tbh I find the slow movement to other systems (faster now, sure, but in the early-mid game it's so sloooow) tiresome. So unlike in EU IV, I turtle a lot and build tall (completed a ring world/lead the galaxy in tech (other than a Fallen Empire) etc). That's cool, but there's only so much fiddling to do. There's always something else on the horizon, sure, but now I really want a crisis to hit to give me a challenge/excitement.
 

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,499
Portugal
I am playing Stellaris on Xbox (YES I KNOW I COULD PLAY IT ON PC BUT I AM WEIRD OK)
Its not weird to play stellaris on Xbox. You should play the game in whatever platform you want.

I am not sure what DLC are available for xbox but a lot of the DLC do add a LOT of fidling to the early and mid game so you aren't just waiting for the end game crysis. If you are enjoying the game and want to increase the content do think about buying DLC.
 

RedSparrows

Prophet of Regret
Member
Feb 22, 2019
6,477
Its not weird to play stellaris on Xbox. You should play the game in whatever platform you want.

I am not sure what DLC are available for xbox but a lot of the DLC do add a LOT of fidling to the early and mid game so you aren't just waiting for the end game crysis. If you are enjoying the game and want to increase the content do think about buying DLC.

Hah, I got what I deserved: the Unbidden spawned in the most perfect place to bisect my empire and cut it apart. I think I've already lost, there's no way of recovering my strength given they've cut the lines. I do have gateways around my empire but i've lost three shipyards already. I can recover only if I get lucky now. My Federation partners are, of course, doing fuck all.

Oh well!
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
Paradox is opening a new studio in Barcelona led by Johan to work on EU(5?).


Crossposting:

It seems more like they had to rethink EU5 after Imperator tbh, as a lot of the problematic design choices they stripped were coming from EU4.

Also Barcelona? Thats not a cheap city. Johan gonna be happy to move from Stockholm to Spain tho.
 

PhantomFFR

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,300
Vienna, Austria, EU, Earth
On that note, I wish they'd allow the AI in EU IV to be somewhat competent in higher difficulties and not were not impacted as much as they apparently are by a vocal part of the audience that apparently prefers an incompetent AI with bonuses to an actually good AI making somewhat reasonable decisions (in terms of building buildings, fort placement, pushing development, army composition etc.; that are mostly easy enough to implement for a modder to do so in several hours.)
 
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SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,235
n that note, I wish they'd allow the AI in EU IV to be somewhat competent in higher difficulties and not were not impacted as much as they apparently are by a vocal part of the audience that apparently prefers an incompetent AI with bonuses to an actually good AI making somewhat reasonable decisions (in terms of building buildings, fort placement, pushing development, army composition etc.; that are mostly easy enough to implement for a modder to do so in several hours.)

I don't know anyone who wants a Dumb AI that Cheats over a Smart AI that plays by the same rules as the player.
 

Deleted member 29682

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
12,290
So would we expect a fantasy GS to take a Stellaris approach of fully custom factions, or something more akin to Endless Legend with more concrete pre-written lore?
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,489
So would we expect a fantasy GS to take a Stellaris approach of fully custom factions, or something more akin to Endless Legend with more concrete pre-written lore?
I think, on balance, I'd prefer something closer to the latter. More factions - like a *lot* more - than Endless Space. I'm imagining something kind of akin to the way that Total Warhammer took the gloves off of Total War by letting them really shake things up, but for EU4. So it's a fixed map with a detailed history, but fantasy instead of historical fiction.
 

PhantomFFR

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,300
Vienna, Austria, EU, Earth
I don't know anyone who wants a Dumb AI that Cheats over a Smart AI that plays by the same rules as the player.

It's a bit of hearsay and based of a comment by Groogy while Groogy was streaming, quite possibly an offhanded and not necesarily factually accurate. Though I will say, given that Arumba and others fixed many things in his/their mods, there seems to be some merit to the idea, that it's a decision due to the thought that some parts of the player base would not like that.
For about 9 Minutes in this Video by Arumba he talks about it. (Context in the days prior he worked on stream on improving the AI behavior and did make solid progress in that regard.)

So I came to the conclusion that there's some merit to the idea, or at least little hope for the EU IV AI to be as good as it realistically could be, whatever the actual reasons may be. And that kind of turns me off greatly from EU IV, so much so, that I might not play it again after ~850 hours.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
It's a bit of hearsay and based of a comment by Groogy while Groogy was streaming, quite possibly an offhanded and not necesarily factually accurate. Though I will say, given that Arumba and others fixed many things in his/their mods, there seems to be some merit to the idea, that it's a decision due to the thought that some parts of the player base would not like that.
For about 9 Minutes in this Video by Arumba he talks about it. (Context in the days prior he worked on stream on improving the AI behavior and did make solid progress in that regard.)

So I came to the conclusion that there's some merit to the idea, or at least little hope for the EU IV AI to be as good as it realistically could be, whatever the actual reasons may be. And that kind of turns me off greatly from EU IV, so much so, that I might not play it again after ~850 hours.
People want to play against a smart AI until they play against it and feel like it is unfair. There is also a problem with an AI that has to take into consideration a ton of variables (such as an open-ended GS game such as the last generation of Paradox games) is incredibly more buggy and arcane (as yes, it might be smart but might be thinking differently). There is a reason why most of the HoI4 "smart AI" mods are about railroading the AI into certain scenarios avoiding the open ended nature (for instance, Soviet AI in HoI4 which sucks unless you tell him there is gonna be a war against Germany in X years). This can also be seen in HoI3 vs HoI4 AI (HoI3 being railroady and the AI being told exactly what to do, making it easier to cheese). That is not to say that Paradox is good at AI and that it is not buggy (it is a fuck ton), but it is... more complex.

THere is also the discussion as told by Firaxis / Blizzard / strategy devs about "Smart vs Fun to play against AI". It is not that easy basically
 

PhantomFFR

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,300
Vienna, Austria, EU, Earth
People want to play against a smart AI until they play against it and feel like it is unfair. There is also a problem with an AI that has to take into consideration a ton of variables (such as an open-ended GS game such as the last generation of Paradox games) is incredibly more buggy and arcane (as yes, it might be smart but might be thinking differently). [...]

THere is also the discussion as told by Firaxis / Blizzard / strategy devs about "Smart vs Fun to play against AI". It is not that easy basically

I totally get that, but if we assume that the AI can easily and without problems be made smarter (by just using their monarch points to do development, building forts in the correct spots and building the correct buildings in the correct provinces) without introducing unwelcome behaviour or high processing cost - and I think due to the actual mod we can at least guess, that this would be the case; I don't know why there can't be an additional "No Fun, experimental good AI" difficulty for those, that want to experience it. Personally if trusted the Developer, that an AI is just good, but not cheating/buggy (and I'll grant you, the trust part is hard to come), I would not feel it to be unfair. I might not want to play against it, if it's better than me, but that point is far from reached, what Arumba was trying to do was create a merely competent AI, not necessarily a good AI, as that would require way more than just those minor modable changes.

And yes, I understand that development resources would be spent on it, but then again the mods exist for the most part and appear stable and per agreement are apparently free for paradox to use in whatever form they wish anyway, so I can only repeat my disappointment.
 

Geido

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,097
Man I feel like I'll be a full noob at the game again after this update. I was thinking of doing a Third Way/Unlikely Candidate run soon-ish. Might need to rollback to the current version for that (although the QoL improvements like troopcount in Diplo screens will be great to have).

Uzzy Will we start another MP game when the update's out?