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Antoo

Member
May 1, 2019
3,783
MAJOR SPOILERS FOR THE ENDINGS OF ORIGAMI KING, COLOR SPLASH, AND STICKER STAR (latter two barely have a story though)

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I enjoyed my time with Origami King immensely. After disliking what had become of the series, it felt like they perfected the puzzle adventure direction they were so desperately trying to achieve with the last two games by actually crafting rich, interconnected worlds full of things to unravel. Presentation is once again on point and the soundtrack is an all around banger. Writing felt improved and battles finally felt fun again thanks to a strong refresh in formula that emphasizes puzzle solving. That's all besides the point I want to discuss though...

One thing stuck out to me right away as I rolled credits: they recycled the same plot beats for the ending again. What do I mean by this? Well, the last 3 PM games all introduce companions that relate to the central theme of the game. In Sticker Star, your partner was a sticker fairy. In Color Splash, your partner was a paint bucket. And finally in Origami King, your partner was well... an origami. At the end of each respective game, these characters sacrifice themselves for the greater good. At first I was just slightly annoyed that they decided to repeat this same story beat again. The good outweighed the bad for me at the time though since for the first time I actually got misty-eyed towards a companion dying. This is in due part to Olivia feeling like an actual character instead of an exposition machine that spouts out one-liners on occasion. Her naivete and joy in seeing the world and all its wonders for the first time was so amusing. Her positivity was infectious. I got incredibly wrapped up in the dynamic between her and her brother and by the time she does the deed I found it all quite bittersweet.

I have come to the realization though that it makes no sense at all why she would sacrifice herself and that someone on the Paper Mario development team, whether a writer or producer, thinks this grand character moment is so genius that they insist it must be done over and over again. The previous two times at least had more sound reasoning. Now it's clear they are hellbent on companions' dying no matter the cost. Olivia's sacrifice makes absolutely no sense. Let's walk through what happened. By the end of the game, she was granted a wish that would give her anything she desires. She chooses to use this wish to erase everything Olly created. Since she was created by Olly, she also was erased. Makes sense right? It all seems to fall in line perfectly until you realize she could have worded her sentences better to avoid dying entirely. She could have stated "I wish to undue all of Olly's creations except for myself" and lived. Why didn't she? This entire decision made by Olivia and their desire to have an emotional moment that is completely unearned feels manipulative. It feels evident they did not think things through. The few explanations that I thought of can easily be countered.

The first is she wanted to die. Either she couldn't handle losing her brother and her failure to save him or she felt like she lived a fulfilling life and wanted to move on. This explanation is not only incredibly dark but also completely out of character for someone like Olivia. Even in the worst of moments she was able to eventually cope as seen in how she deals with Bobby's death. She is portrayed as incredibly optimistic and easygoing so it just does not make sense for her to act this way.

The second explanation is that she wants to go along with her brother. So this explanation is kind of an extension of the previous explanation but further elaborated upon in terms of her motivation. This falls apart too. If she wanted her brother back, she could have just wished him back. He expressed regret and admitted what he did was wrong. She could have brought him back and asked him to undo his creations. Afterwards, the two of them could have used the power of origami for good and create a world where paper and origami folk peacefully coexist.

The last explanation is she's impulsive. She is trying to do a selfless act so she can save everyone without realizing she will die in the process. The fact she is impulsive is proven and shown in chapter 5 where she is wrong every time regarding what route to take to reach the spa. The key thing to note though is that Olivia is never driven by emotions to act irrationally. When the situation deals with serious matters, she is shown to have a strong willingness to reflect. This is seen when she takes a moment to grieve for Bobby. She doesn't storm off in a quest for retribution. Additionally, it is shown that Olivia does not make the decision right away. She takes a couple of seconds and her wish is given pause in effort to build up what is about to happen for maximum emotional impact. So clearly she was not acting impulsively. Finally, characterizing her act as selfless makes it seem like Olivia's life was meaningless which is very much not the case.

There's just no reason for her to do what she did at the end. Her wish makes no sense either. She asks for Olly's creations to be undone. What are the implications of this? This makes it so the castle turns back at the end but gives no explanation for how the castle, which was on top of a fucking volcano, somehow magically teleported back to Toad Town. Next, all this wish seemed to do is save time. Olly was defeated so the threat of all the Toads dying is gone. They could have unfolded everything with Olivia's help. I mean who folded and unfolded Bowser? Mario is also shown to have the ability to unfold Toads that got turned into origami. They treat Olivia as if she stopped this huge catastrophe from happening but all she did was destroy the job market for janitors. Also, no one talks about what wish to make. Characters in this game usually won't shut up but now all of a sudden everyone has duct tape on their mouths when an integral decision is being made. All of these are nitpicks and I hate delving into such minutiae because these small notes alone aren't actual criticism. My main sticking point builds off of these small quibbles though and it's that they insisted on inserting a square peg into a round hole.

Olivia's actions feel at odds with her character. This isn't a case of me trying to fish for a plot hole such as when people act smart and question why villains don't just kill the hero when they have them trapped instead of waiting for them to wake up and monologuing.It becomes increasingly clear that they went into the story with the intention to kill off Olivia without ironing out the details and seeing whether it actually fit with the narrative. The only reason why they added in the idea that Olivia was made by Olly is so she could be erased. It barely adds any interesting wrinkles to the brother and sister relationship. At some point in the process they should have realized that they shouldn't kill Olivia because it didn't fit anymore with the narrative.

So why is this happening? Why do companions have to die? The implication that is clear is that these games have a framework that they build off of now. Every game revolves around a gimmick and by the end they have to shuffle out the companion because they are too intrinsically tied to what that game is all about. This is disappointing. What's the point of every game having the same overarching plot structure? Tanabe claims they want to keep things fresh and interesting but apparently this does not apply to the plot at all because they are fine doing doing the same thing over and over again. And this time it was too much. Yes, they've improved on the self-contained stories found in each chapter. However, they still need to rethink their philosophy when it comes to the overall conflict. Olivia did not deserve such a sloppily written death. She deserved to live. Maybe even reoccur in future games. Wouldn't it be neat if PM had reoccurring characters outside of the mainstays of the Mario universe? They can't do the same thing for a fourth time. At this point it's already beyond comical and doing a disservice to the new characters.

#OliviaDeservedBetter
 

SolidChamp

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
User Warned: Thread whining
Hoooleee hell what the fuck is with the hate boner for this (absolutely incredible) game?!

Guys, this place has been pretty bonkers lately and threads like these only add to the insanity. Seriously, chill the fuck out.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,238
Rochester, New York
Mario's main companion sacrificing themselves actually started with Super Paper Mario, not Sticker Star

It's just a running theme in the series and a convenient way to get rid of the companion so they can start new with the next game
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,662
What ever happened to Kersti?

Is she on vacation with Huey and the Pixls on Rogueport?
 

Annabel

Member
Mar 22, 2019
1,677
Hoooleee hell what the fuck is with the hate boner for this (absolutely incredible) game?!

Guys, this place has been pretty bonkers lately and threads like these only add to the insanity. Seriously, chill the fuck out.
OP isn't even hating the game though. Just the writing with Olivia.
 

Mario_Bones

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,519
Australia
lmao I literally just finished Color Splash and thought "The ending was better this time but I hope they don't reuse it for a third time in Origami King", then checked my phone and saw this thread. Knew right away exact what it would be referring to. Jesus Christ, that's hilarious and pathetic
 
OP
OP
Antoo

Antoo

Member
May 1, 2019
3,783
Hoooleee hell what the fuck is with the hate boner for this (absolutely incredible) game?!

Guys, this place has been pretty bonkers lately and threads like these only add to the insanity. Seriously, chill the fuck out.
I don't hate the game? I seriously started out the OP saying I enjoyed the game. Made multiple posts in the OT saying how much I enjoyed playing the game. Gave it a 8.5/10. I'm on track to 100% the game this weekend. Is it not worth to criticize how they repeated the same storyline 3 times after claiming they want to always try new things? Especially when it actively does a character a disservice.
 

udivision

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,031
Is Starlow the only "companion guide fairy" character to show up in Multipe games and not, y'know, die?
M&L is a different franchise though.

Hoooleee hell what the fuck is with the hate boner for this (absolutely incredible) game?!

Guys, this place has been pretty bonkers lately and threads like these only add to the insanity. Seriously, chill the fuck out.
What?
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
Hoooleee hell what the fuck is with the hate boner for this (absolutely incredible) game?!

Guys, this place has been pretty bonkers lately and threads like these only add to the insanity. Seriously, chill the fuck out.

I enjoyed my time with Origami King immensely.

Fucking hell, do people read the original posts anymore?

This is the fourth game in a row where the tutorial fairy sacrifices themselves to save the day. It is played out by now
 

Yasumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,573
Hoooleee hell what the fuck is with the hate boner for this (absolutely incredible) game?!

Guys, this place has been pretty bonkers lately and threads like these only add to the insanity. Seriously, chill the fuck out.
It's not a "hate boner" to have a problem with thrice repeated (four times repeated?) plot points in a series that once actually had some variety. Chill yourself.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I feel like this sacrifice is on the level of Trippi though. Because the death sticks. In Sticker Star Kristi comes back right away and Huey never actually dies, he just says he needs to go take care of the black ink. He never actually implies he would die and comes back if you go get 100%. While I do find it funny this seems to be the same thing I do appreciate they stick to their guns this time like with Bobby. Really the only problem was that it was done extremely poorly (well, ok Huey I feel like doesn't count at all as a sacrifice since no one ever acts like its a sacrifice) in the past two games than this one being drastic.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
Hoooleee hell what the fuck is with the hate boner for this (absolutely incredible) game?!

Guys, this place has been pretty bonkers lately and threads like these only add to the insanity. Seriously, chill the fuck out.
Did you read the OP? They generally had a blast with the game, their criticism is only leveled at the ending.
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
Hoooleee hell what the fuck is with the hate boner for this (absolutely incredible) game?!

Guys, this place has been pretty bonkers lately and threads like these only add to the insanity. Seriously, chill the fuck out.

Criticism != hate
A lot of people are confusing the two.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,528
I guess since they know Nintendo won't let them bring the companions back, they feel the need to rehash the same plot beats?

The very least they could have done was make Olly and Olivia come from an actual origami dimension which she returns to at the end. That way they still get the goodbye without reusing the same plot beat for the fourth time in a row.
 

Rats

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,112
Hoooleee hell what the fuck is with the hate boner for this (absolutely incredible) game?!

Guys, this place has been pretty bonkers lately and threads like these only add to the insanity. Seriously, chill the fuck out.

Yes, how dare the OP start a thoughtful and critical discussion about a game. The audacity.
 

SolidChamp

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
Oops. Sorry. Just felt the term "insulting" was a bit harsh and the OP was being wholly unreasonable.
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
It's also in the platformers. Like FLUDD dying.... for some reason.

And then there's the Luma killing itself to seal a black hole

Frankly, Cappy surviving and still hanging out with Mario postgame was a breath of fresh air.
 
OP
OP
Antoo

Antoo

Member
May 1, 2019
3,783
I feel like this sacrifice is on the level of Trippi though. Because the death sticks. In Sticker Star Kristi comes back right away and Huey never actually dies, he just says he needs to go take care of the black ink. He never actually implies he would die and comes back if you go get 100%. While I do find it funny this seems to be the same thing I do appreciate they stick to their guns this time like with Bobby. Really the only problem was that it was done extremely poorly (well, ok Huey I feel like doesn't count at all as a sacrifice since no one ever acts like its a sacrifice) in the past two games than this one being drastic.
I completely forgot Kersti came back to life... huh. Wow, I played that game to completion even completing the museum and I just forgot about the very end of the game.

I think that just makes me more salty that Olivia had to die because they could have given her a happy ending. Game already proved that is was willing to go to certain places with Bobby so I don't feel like they needed to do it again with Olivia. Kersti sacrificed herself to save the world. Olivia sacrificed herself to speed up cleaning the world. My point still stands I guess that there was no reason to sacrifice herself and they basically had to invent reasons to create an emotional moment similar to the previous games when it just didn't work. They needed that moment when your companion makes the difficult choice.
 

Melpomene

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 9, 2019
18,289
Oops. Sorry. Just felt the term "insulting" was a bit harsh and the OP was being wholly unreasonable.
Yeah. I don't think it's unfair to expect people to read the whole OP, that's kiiind of important. But I also don't think it's unfair to maybe expect a thread's title to accurately reflect the OP and not vaguely resemble provocative clickbait?
 

SolidChamp

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,867
I think the problem I have with the discussion is that it takes attention away from the otherwise incredibly clever and humorous writing. There are threads focusing on what the game should be and not taking a look at what it is and what it does well.

I'm all for being critical of the tired and cheap tropes that IS relies on time and again, but I think the overarching plot of each entry isn't really the point/focus. It's the constant stream of character interactions and witty dialogue that provide the real meat of the game. The actual plot, I feel, is merely there to facilitate that, lame tropes and all.
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,189
Meh i like it and unlike Kersti and Huey, Olivia and Bobby died for real
 

Horohorohoro

Member
Jan 28, 2019
6,723
I thought it was a little dumb too. I knew it was going to happen, but I wasn't expecting us to not really see how the characters to react nor for Olivia to not get to say goodbye or anything. It was pretty silly, none of the "deaths" in this game really made me feel sad, even the first one because of how it was framed.
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,815
JP
I don't think this really needs any spoiler tag.

I also don't think people play these games for the story.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
It's also in the platformers. Like FLUDD dying.... for some reason.

And then there's the Luma killing itself to seal a black hole

Frankly, Cappy surviving and still hanging out with Mario postgame was a breath of fresh air.

I mean...does it count as dying if in the next scene he's immediately fine?

I completely forgot Kersti came back to life... huh. Wow, I played that game to completion even completing the museum and I just forgot about the very end of the game.

I think that just makes me more salty that Olivia had to die because they could have given her a happy ending. Game already proved that is was willing to go to certain places with Bobby so I don't feel like they needed to do it again with Olivia. Kersti sacrificed herself to save the world. Olivia sacrificed herself to speed up cleaning the world. My point still stands I guess that there was no reason to sacrifice herself and they basically had to invent reasons to create an emotional moment similar to the previous games when it just didn't work. They needed that moment when your companion makes the difficult choice.

I do think they could have hinted at this early on yeah. There could have been a better story arc if they linked the Bob-Omb line of making an impact and having her doing a sacrifice.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,528
I thought it was a little dumb too. I knew it was going to happen, but I wasn't expecting us to not really see how the characters to react nor for Olivia to not get to say goodbye or anything. It was pretty silly, none of the "deaths" in this game really made me feel sad, even the first one because of how it was framed.
I think the first one could have had a bigger impact if Bobby wasn't useless in gameplay and it wasn't sullied by the bit later where Mario is shooting bob-ombs out of a cannon.
 
OP
OP
Antoo

Antoo

Member
May 1, 2019
3,783
I think the problem I have with the discussion is that it takes attention away from the otherwise incredibly clever and humorous writing. There are threads focusing on what the game should be and not taking a look at what it is and what it does well.

I'm all for being critical of the tired and cheap tropes that IS relies on time and again, but I think the overarching plot of each entry isn't really the point/focus. It's the constant stream of character interactions and witty dialogue that provide the real meat of the game. The actual plot, I feel, is merely there to facilitate that, lame tropes and all.
My point though is that this game's ending does a disservice to a character they got right. They finally made a companion worthwhile only to kill them off in the same tired way except now none of it even makes sense. They are trying to make you feel like she made a decision for the greater good but that's not the case at all. She just dies because she needs to. In a game that does fix issues that have plagued the series for a while it does immediately stick out how they chose to go about things in the end. It made me really fixate on how tired this plot structure is. Yes, the smaller self-contained stories have always been what is at the heart of the series. The characters that interweave through those side stories is equally as important though and I feel writing every companion with the knowledge in mind that they'll die at the end is detrimental to meaningful character work.

And the game is trying to pull at the heartstrings with the sacrifice and it feels emotionally manipulative. It is attempting to be something more meaningful but failing.
 

Horohorohoro

Member
Jan 28, 2019
6,723
I think the first one could have had a bigger impact if Bobby wasn't useless in gameplay and it wasn't sullied by the bit later where Mario is shooting bob-ombs out of a cannon.
Yeah, my big issue is the shooting bob-ombs thing too. Like "wow, your friend sacrificed himself, now let's have a fun minigame where you kill even more of his kind for your own gain!" Or something like that, especially after they have Olivia call them all "Bobbys!" Bobby's death was really weird.
 

Protoman200X

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,559
N. Vancouver, BC, Canada
Yeah, my big issue is the shooting bob-ombs thing too. Like "wow, your friend sacrificed himself, now let's have a fun minigame where you kill even more of his kind for your own gain!" Or something like that, especially after they have Olivia call them all "Bobbys!" Bobby's death was really weird.

The whole game felt like a half-measure, if you wanted me to be frank.

I tried as hell to like it, but it wasn't fun.
 

HustleBun

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,076
My point though is that this game's ending does a disservice to a character they got right. They finally made a companion worthwhile only to kill them off in the same tired way except now none of it even makes sense. They are trying to make you feel like she made a decision for the greater good but that's not the case at all. She just dies because she needs to. In a game that does fix issues that have plagued the series for a while it does immediately stick out how they chose to go about things in the end. It made me really fixate on how tired this plot structure is. Yes, the smaller self-contained stories have always been what is at the heart of the series. The characters that interweave through those side stories is equally as important though and I feel writing every companion with the knowledge in mind that they'll die at the end is detrimental to meaningful character work.

And the game is trying to pull at the heartstrings with the sacrifice and it feels emotionally manipulative. It is attempting to be something more meaningful but failing.
It's frustrating that legitimate criticism towards some of Nintendo's choices lately, are being dismissed as "hate" or passive aggressive comments about loving something. The very, very valid concerns about this game have been treated terribly by a group of folks on this forum and I wish we could participate in the conversation or just ignore it.

Your points are fair and what's more, they completely line up with the recent interview that described the narrative limitations that IS have admitted they've committed to since Sticker Star.



Nintendo does not participate in conversations with their audience and so unfortunately, the sales numbers will tell them to stay the course.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
It's frustrating that legitimate criticism towards some of Nintendo's choices lately, are being dismissed as "hate" or passive aggressive comments about loving something. The very, very valid concerns about this game have been treated terribly by a group of folks on this forum and I wish we could participate in the conversation or just ignore it.

Your points are fair and what's more, they completely line up with the recent interview that described the narrative limitations that IS have admitted they've committed to since Sticker Star.



Nintendo does not participate in conversations with their audience and so unfortunately, the sales numbers will tell them to stay the course.

At the same time I've been told that it was my duty as a Paper Mario fan to hate everything and anything Paper Mario related and it got so bad I started to feel bad that I like the later games more than the previous ones. I get the complaints here but some of them beforehand were unfounded and seemed to be going out of the way to fight things to hate on this game.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,164
I guess since they know Nintendo won't let them bring the companions back, they feel the need to rehash the same plot beats?

The next Paper Mario game returns to the traditional formula, but at the end all the partners die

I think the problem I have with the discussion is that it takes attention away from the otherwise incredibly clever and humorous writing. There are threads focusing on what the game should be and not taking a look at what it is and what it does well.

It's okay to critique a video game. It's not "taking attention" away from it.

At the same time I've been told that it was my duty as a Paper Mario fan to hate everything and anything Paper Mario related

Think this is pretty unfair, nobody was literally saying to do this.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Think this is pretty unfair, nobody was literally saying to do this.

Given how we've had like 3 Paper Mario threads that were complaints and that this is the first one with a legitimate complaint it certainly feels like fans have taken on to themselves to find anything to hate on this game.
 

Horohorohoro

Member
Jan 28, 2019
6,723
Given how we've had like 3 Paper Mario threads that were complaints and that this is the first one with a legitimate complaint it certainly feels like fans have taken on to themselves to find anything to hate on this game.
Then say it in those threads. Why try to make these points in a thread specifically about a complaint that you yourself just said you considered legitimate?
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Then say it in those threads. Why try to make these points in a thread specifically about a complaint that you yourself just said you considered legitimate?

I did. One was involved in blatant sinophobia so I was more focused on that note and I already mentioned it on the other thread. This thread I've been acknowledging that this aspect defintiely hasn't been done well.
 

HustleBun

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,076
At the same time I've been told that it was my duty as a Paper Mario fan to hate everything and anything Paper Mario related and it got so bad I started to feel bad that I like the later games more than the previous ones. I get the complaints here but some of them beforehand were unfounded and seemed to be going out of the way to fight things to hate on this game.
Yeah I've seen you mention this and I agree that pushing an agenda to decry a game is really excessive and ridiculous. I don't think it's fair to make someone feel bad for enjoying a thing. There's a reason why I avoid Star Wars threads here.

But identifying IS/Nintendo's weird policies about stripping down the content in the Paper Mario series or feeling genuinely sad, frustrated or disappointed that they continue to remove core mechanics that the series was known and loved for, needs to be a valid conversation as well.

The exchange that took place before I left the PM trailer thread, was myself and a few others worrying that battles would only result in coins, that there would be no character progression rewards for battling. The responses were dismissive and weirdly overdefensive of a game that had not yet released. The OP here is being pretty rational and nuanced about their impressions and I appreciate that.

I think it's great that people love this game. A lot of work went into it, it's beautiful and funny as hell. But I hope to see people be more open to having conversations about media without demanding that it be thrown into binary columns- considered terrible trash or beyond critical discussion.
 

spunodi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
571
This seems like quite an overreaction.

For me it wasn't really a rehash because I never played Sticker Star or Colour Splash, titles on consoles I never owned or had any compulsion to do so. Considering Switch market share it's a fairly safe bet the majority of players for Origami King will also be coming into it with fresh eyes.

It's a bit funny watching this after years as a Sonic fan. Here's the deal for a lot of 3D Sonic game - Eggman works with / is usurped by a more powerful force that you have to turn Super Sonic to defeat, with Eggman also on the side against the creature / force. Here goes:
  • Sonic Adventure: Chaos
  • Sonic Adventure 2: Professor Gerald / Biolizard
  • Sonic Heroes: Metal Sonic
  • Sonic 2006: Mephiles / Solaris
  • Sonic Unleashed: Dark Gaia
Paper Mario fans are spoiled by comparison.

However it was done, whether it was done before or not, it was understated and affecting. Olivia's character was mainly about jumping in to do things - and she leapt into her fate, because her pure outlook thought it was for the best.

I think it could have had a little more impact with some adjustments - it happened a little quickly for me. But it was a nice ending and melancholic to reflect upon.

Character sacrifice is such a trope in fiction that being disappointed to see it repeated is like being disappointed in a three act structure. For me it's more about the execution and whilst in some ways it could be executed better, it worked well enough for me at least.

Taylor Swift says you need to calm down.
 

Tito

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,030
I don't know, I almost never finish Mario RPGs, the ending section is either full of backtracking (TTYD, BiS), or the final boss is bullshit (Sticker Star), or the game is too convoluted to play (color splash, SPM) or the game is just boring (Dream Team).

So far I've only finished the original Mario RPG, SSS and Dream Team, and am playing through the original Paper Mario.
 

Bilollipop

Member
Nov 26, 2017
264
Canada
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Maybe for the next game they'll upgrade to the "See you again but actually never" ending trope.
 

Kouriozan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,107
Mario's main companion sacrificing themselves actually started with Super Paper Mario, not Sticker Star

It's just a running theme in the series and a convenient way to get rid of the companion so they can start new with the next game
It made sense back then, so that she could be with her love, you even get a scene showing that.
 

Vitet

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,573
Valencia, Spain
I didn't play SS or CS and Olivia's sacrifice come to me as a masterfully ending scene. Sorry, OP, not feeling this discussion at all just because they did something similar before. If this game is a return to some old tropes and ditches some bad decisions from CS and SS, why even botter what does games did.
 

Deleted member 11276

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,223
Yeah, I agree. The game has a lot going for it. The environments with exploration, the music, dungeons, humor, puzzles, atmosphere the writing and story arcs for characters (like Bobby) but then it still has not enough for it to be a title that is worthy of the Paper Mario franchise.

The predictable story is one of them. Why can't they make something unique again that is not based on some paper gimmick, I don't understand it. TTYD and SPM had awesome unique storylines.
Why can't they make a battle system that is not pointless, or ditch round based alltogether.
Why are there still so many Toads and why do they not create more unique characters.

As long as the points I mentioned are still there, Paper Mario stays dead for me.