Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door - Retro Review ( GameXplain / 13 minutes )

[Deleted member 17388]

GameXplain has been doing a new series called Game Club, where they revisit games alongside their audience week by week, and the first chosen game was Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door.

And now they're ready to condense their thoughts into a Retro Review of the title. How will it do looked through modern videogame standards?

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At 11:20 every member of the Game Club shares their thoughts on Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door.

It seems the pros most of them had were:

Spoiler

- Great, clever story
- Characters
- Battle system

And the common cons:

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-Pacing
-Too much backtracking

So, what about all of you Era people? Have you played this entry in the Paper Mario series? Do you think it holds up? Would you recommend it today?

 

[WestEgg]

Easily my favorite Paper Mario, it holds up extremely well today. And I'm someone who likes pretty much the whole series.

 

[The Unsent]

It holds up, most of Nintendo's classics do. It's one of the best JRPGs ever.

 

[Dyle]

Yeah it's pretty good. I'd agree that there's definitely too much backtracking, just moving around the world takes longer than it needs to.

More importantly, the new TAS was released yesterday

 

[No Depth]

Unpopular opinion, but even at launch when I played it I was a bit let down. Enjoyable but flawed.

Visuals are stunning, but the pacing and backtracking were a problem back then too. Felt like blinders among fans as it seemed this game could do no wrong in their eyes that often continues today.

I also wasn't big on combat outside of boss fights. They too were paced slow and it got tiring dealing with fodder using the same gimmick attacks. PM64 had similar issues and I just never felt for all the praise combat gets, they really excelled in maintaining engaging and interesting ways to uplift the filler fights.

 

[Firebrand]

Something I really liked about Paper Mario TTYD with its level-up system and low numbers is that you feel stat changes. Similarly, the badges often have tangible effects.

In a lot of other RPGs I find it very difficult to care about numbers and gear beyond "more = better".

 

[Deleted member 17388]

Unpopular opinion, but even at launch when I played it I was a bit let down. Enjoyable but flawed.

Visuals are stunning, but the pacing and backtracking were a problem back then too. Felt like blinders among fans as it seemed this game could do no wrong in their eyes that often continues today.

I also wasn't big on combat outside of boss fights. They too were paced slow and it got tiring dealing with fodder using the same gimmick attacks. PM64 had similar issues and I just never felt for all the praise combat gets, they really excelled in maintaining engaging and interesting ways to uplift the filler fights.

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It'd be really interesting how the game would do for a contemporary (crafting :v) younger audience.
Too linear? Too slow?

 

[Tan]

I agree with the cons listed. It's also my favorite game of all time and was a delight to play through again last year.

 

[Ramsay]

I'd give it a 7/10. It's good, but wildly overrated and a major step down from Paper Mario 64.

I think Vivian and the battle system are both superb, and are the highlights of the game. That being said, I think that the partners outside of Vivian are nothing special, the level design is way too linear, and the backtracking is inexcusable.

I also don't like how TTYD doesn't have much of an identity compared to the other two Paper Mario games - Paper Mario 64 was an RPG, but it was also distinctly a Mario game, whereas Super Paper Mario wasn't much of a Mario game, but made up for it with how dark its tone got - whereas I feel that there's not much separating TTYD's writing from that of a generic JRPG.

 

[Zeron]

Something I really liked about Paper Mario TTYD with its level-up system and low numbers is that you feel stat changes. Similarly, the badges often have tangible effects.

In a lot of other RPGs I find it very difficult to care about numbers and gear beyond "more = better".

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Funny you should say this because it's exactly why battling just feel like a huge hassle to me.

 

[SolidChamp]

I do remember feeling like Paper Mario 64 had better pacing overall and was a more cohesive and engaging game. TTYD is great but the backtracking was a slog and something about the way the story flowed and the locations opened up just didn't gel with me as much as it did in PM64.

I still think PM64 is the best of the bunch and one of the best games I've ever played.

 

[Vector]

Aside from chapter 4, this game was hugely enjoyable and the dialog was imo incredibly well written and witty. One of my favorite games ever.

 

[Soap]

I could recommend it for the writing alone.... It got some laughs out of me.

 

[ClickyCal']

Yea, it's the 3rd best gamecube game.

 

[AndreGX]

The mysteries are what I love most in TTYD, so Chapters 3, 4, and 6 are the highlights for me. Everything about Twilight Town, in particular, is sublime.

Really enjoyed returning to it, but it certainly isn't flawless. The Moon segment was a real drag

 

[KillstealWolf]

Anyone who hasn't done a run with the Absurd Danger Mario build should try it in all efforts. Forever on the plain of Near Death and One Shotting just about everything in the game is gonna make ya sweat a bit.

 

[Carassius Auratus]

Besides the mediocre level design and the occasional bout of "ironic" tedium (General White, "I love you 100x", etc.), the game's a classic.

 

[AndreGX]

Anyone who hasn't done a run with the Absurd Danger Mario build should try it in all efforts. Forever on the plain of Near Death and One Shotting just about everything in the game is gonna make ya sweat a bit.

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I did a BP- only run for Game Club and I was definitely sweating it at points with my 10 HP!

 

[PancakeFlip]

I liked the original better, the pacing in TTYD wasn't as good and had too much back tracking. I'm not in love with TTYD but I'm fond of the core gameplay, design and world building of both of the originals.

What pisses me off about the new titles is that I basically lost everything I love about the original games and get broken gameplay and flanderized humor in return. Like a cartoon where someone came into my house and vacuumed up everything and when I ask if I could just have or keep this ONE thing, they proceed stare blankly as they suck that into the vacuum as well.

 

[NotLiquid]

I used to be of the belief that TTYD was the best RPG in the series but upon my revisits of it and other games I'd definitely put 64 above it. The peaks and valleys of TTYD are too numerous to count, and with the exception of Glitzville the game's pacing and combat encounters already become a drag by the fourth chapter.

Still love its narrative and general locales though.

 

[King Dodongo]

After TOK haters put it on a unreachable pedestal, I finally decided to borrow it and I conclude that PM64 is easily better. They may enjoy the backtracking but I certainly don't. Also the story is kinda dumb IMO. I may check Bug fables after a sale, but eh.

 

[Kinsei]

Overall the focus on backtracking hurts it and the overall design of the areas are worse than Paper Mario 64's (the exception being Dry Dry Desert and Flower Fields, they really sucked in PM64), but I feel the myriad of improvements to the combat system and overall better story and NPCs are enough for it to come out on top as I just simply enjoy playing it more despite it's shortcomings.

 

[AndreGX]

After TOK haters put it on a unreachable pedestal, I finally decided to borrow it and I conclude that PM64 is easily better. They may enjoy the backtracking but I certainly don't. Also the story is kinda dumb IMO. I may check Bug fables after a sale, but eh.

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I've long felt that while TTYD has the more interesting settings, PM64 has superior gameplay. But I'd need to revisit it again to make sure

 

[Xita]

I agree with the pros and the cons. A classic for sure, feel like I could recommend it to any RPG fan. Really wish it was more easily available.

 

[King Dodongo]

I've long felt that while TTYD has the more interesting settings, PM64 has superior gameplay. But I'd need to revisit it again to make sure

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Please do! It's easily replayable and time goes fast in that game. Its pacing is unrivaled in the series (still have to play TOK next week to see how that fares).

 

[TheWill]

After TOK haters put it on a unreachable pedestal, I finally decided to borrow it and I conclude that PM64 is easily better. They may enjoy the backtracking but I certainly don't. Also the story is kinda dumb IMO. I may check Bug fables after a sale, but eh.

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Not going to lie, sounds like you went into it WANTING to hate it becaue of the "TOK haters". I do agree backtracking is an issue for the game though.

 

[Mandos]

I'd always recommend PM64 over this one any day of the week especially for a newcomer. Then if they really enjoyed that and wanted more then I'd suggest this

 

[ClickyCal']

I've long felt that while TTYD has the more interesting settings, PM64 has superior gameplay. But I'd need to revisit it again to make sure

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Hmm I think the battle gameplay itself is just an overall better version of 64's. The map design and set up of chapters is a little better in 64 though, and the Peach parts are better.

 

[Xita]

The mysteries are what I love most in TTYD, so Chapters 3, 4, and 6 are the highlights for me. Everything about Twilight Town, in particular, is sublime.

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Yeah the backtracking in Chapter 4 was terrible, but I was just so invested in the mystery of what was happening in Twilight Town (And Doopliss is a great boss). One of my favorite chapters for sure.

 

[PancakeFlip]

Yeah the backtracking in Chapter 4 was terrible, but I was just so invested in the mystery of what was happening in Twilight Town (And Doopliss is a great boss). One of my favorite chapters for sure.

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That was the only time I enjoyed it simply because you teamed up with Vivian and I enjoyed Doopliss.

 

[King Dodongo]

Not going to lie, sounds like you went into it WANTING to hate it becaue of the "TOK haters". I do agree backtracking is an issue for the game though.

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Sorry if it sounded that way. Doesn't help the fact that I didn't play it on release (I skipped many interesting games because of money issues back then).

 

[Tochtli79]

It's a great game, so is PM64. Timeless classics.

 

[TheWill]

Sorry if it sounded that way. Doesn't help the fact that I didn't play it on release (I skipped many interesting games because of money issues back then).

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Your opinion is perfectly valid, if you don't like it you don't like it. And honestly, it's completely reasonable for you to go in with high expectations considering how vocal certain sections of the Paper Mario community are with their toxicity towards the newer entries to the series (even if I personally agree with some criticisms they highlight for the newer games). If anything, I think it's just disappointing the series has become so divisive with its different gameplay styles (classic vs. Super vs. modern).

 

[Horohorohoro]

I don't like it as much as I like the first game (though it has a much more in depth battle system) but I still think it's one of my top 10 games of all time. I'd definitely recommend it to someone today, and I actually have had my girlfriend play it for the first time in the past couple years.

 

[Gartooth]

I replayed Paper Mario 64 via Wii U VC back when TOK was announced (please port TTYD Nintendo so I can replay that too...) and honestly despite playing that game as a kid I was shocked how well it held up. So much so that it made me reconsider whether TTYD was my favorite Paper Mario game.

 

[Mashing]

I never played PM64 so this was my first foray into the series. I loved it. It has such charming characters, funny dialog, and still looks great to this day. I do agree with the backtracking being an issue, but it doesn't drag it down much for me. The battle system is SO good. One of my favorite RPGs.

 

[King Dodongo]

Your opinion is perfectly valid, if you don't like it you don't like it. And honestly, it's completely reasonable for you to go in with high expectations considering how vocal certain sections of the Paper Mario community are with their toxicity towards the newer entries to the series (even if I personally agree with some criticisms they highlight for the newer games). If anything, I think it's just disappointing the series has become so divisive with its different gameplay styles (classic vs. Super vs. modern).

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Agreed, this became one of the most divisive franchises I've seen. The problem is that some people are outright taking their stance and looking for flaws. In their defense though, I didn't play the last two games so I probably don't understand their rage as much as I would want to. I'll be sure to post my impressions on the newest game, that's for sure.

 

[AuthenticM]

Literally one of the greatest games of all time.

 

[archreaper93]

After TOK haters put it on a unreachable pedestal, I finally decided to borrow it and I conclude that PM64 is easily better. They may enjoy the backtracking but I certainly don't. Also the story is kinda dumb IMO. I may check Bug fables after a sale, but eh.

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What's TOK?

 

[Kinsei]

What's TOK?

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The Origami King

 

[PancakeFlip]

Agreed, this became one of the most divisive franchises I've seen. The problem is that some people are outright taking their stance and looking for flaws. In their defense though, I didn't play the last two games so I probably don't understand their rage as much as I would want to. I'll be sure to post my impressions on the newest game, that's for sure.

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I'm not familiar with any other series that made drastic changes to almost everything and not make them spinoffs, split fanbases typically don't happen otherwise. Fans of ONLY the spinoffs of series are kind of just siphoned off into their own little world. I think originally people assumed SPM was a spinoff. I thought it was a spinoff, but at least it had new characters and new worlds with some decent dialogue (I didn't mind reading).

Imagined if Federation Force set the new standard for Metroid games and Metroid fans were not guaranteed another game like the originals or didn't have that feeling of assurance at all.

 

[archreaper93]

The Origami King

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Ah, right.

 

[Mekanos]

I used to assume TTYD was better, hands down, until I replayed it and 64 back to back. TTYD wins in story/characters and battle system, but 64's pacing and level design definitely win out, making it more enjoyable, if only slightly. (64's got the better OST as well.) But they're both fantastic games and the difference is negligible. Alongside with SMRPG, they're among my all time favorite games; top 20-30 easily.

Both games I would recommend to a new player without hesitation. TTYD's slicker style and better story/battle system might resonate more though.

 

[SMD]

.

 

[Crayolan]

Not a bad review, though I don't get what they mean by the pacing being a con? I always thought chapter structure of the first 3 Paper Mario games makes for some pretty good feeling pacing, since no chapter lasts too long and before long you're on to a completely different scenario. The backtracking does suck though, yea. Chapters 4 and 7 being the worst offenders, but there's a bit in Chapters 2 and 5 too. And their point about the troubles being kinda shit is definitely true, if they ever re-release the game making it so you can take multiple troubles would be an obvious QoL update.

Something else they should also do is add some shortcuts in certain areas to cut down on backtracking, like maybe make it so in Chapter 4 after you go back to the creepy steeple with vivian, you can find a shortcut back to twilight town, in chapter 5 when you get bobbery, you can find a shortcut back to the base camp, and in chapter 7 they can play up the joke aspect of the backtracking and just warp you to the next place that general white is supposed to be after talking to each NPC, with some funny animation each time of mario and his partner being exhausted from running around so much.

 

[Fumpster]

PM64 and TTYD both deserve re-releases. The original is my absolute favourite game, and TTYD is only slightly not as good to me.

 

[King Dodongo]

I'm not familiar with any other series that made drastic changes to almost everything and not make them spinoffs, split fanbases typically don't happen otherwise. Fans of ONLY the spinoffs of series are kind of just siphoned off into their own little world. I think originally people assumed SPM was a spinoff. I thought it was a spinoff, but at least it had new characters and new worlds with some decent dialogue (I didn't mind reading).

Imagined if Federation Force set the new standard for Metroid games and Metroid fans were not guaranteed another game like the originals or didn't have that feeling of assurance at all.

Click to shrink...

Resident Evil 4 certainly changed quite a bit from ealier games: No zombies, third person view, shopping, etc. It was certainly a deviation. Nevertheless, many gave it a chance and ended up enjoying it. While some were against the change, personally, it stands alongisde with REmake for the best RE games of all time. There are still any things we dont know about TOK and certainly even less the direction IS will take the series going forward.

I kind of agree with the Federation Force sentiment. But it was sort of different, people didnt like other M and some years went by in suspense until the trailer appeared and people went crazy. I wasn't in full rage mode but understood that it wasn't exactly its triumphant return.

 

[Euron]

Yeah this is a pretty good review, only flaw I'd add is the insane difficulty spike of the final boss coupled with an unskipable cutscene.

Beyond that, this is still one of the best games ever made. The story beats are incredibly inventive, with each distinct chapter after the 1st taking a risk with scenarios never before done in Mario games yet each one pays off. The story, characters, and world just have so much depth to them, as does the combat system. The graphics and art still look good today.

It's a game that simply has flair and personality, which is sorely needed when Nintendo itself has fallen victim to releasing safer, template style games since the GameCube era (though they've seemed to go back to innovating with the Switch thanks to BoTW and Odyssey). Not every single decision hits but when they do hit on something, which is frequent, it certainly resonates.

Also the soundtrack slaps hard. In a sense it's the original Undertale.

 

[Mekanos]

Resident Evil 4 certainly changed quite a bit from ealier games: No zombies, third person view, shopping, etc. It was certainly a deviation. Nevertheless, many gave it a chance and ended up enjoying it. While some were against the change, personally, it stands alongisde with REmake for the best RE games of all time. There are still any things we dont know about TOK and certainly even less the direction IS will take the series going forward.

I kind of agree with the Federation Force sentiment. But it was sort of different, people didnt like other M and some years went by in suspense until the trailer appeared and people went crazy. I wasn't in full rage mode but understood that it wasn't exactly its triumphant return.

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RE4 very much is a continuation of the spirit of the original RE games. It adds and changes some features, but there can be no mistake it follows up on those games and is recognizable as a sequel to them. The same can't really be said for modern Paper Mario.

 

[Uncle at Nintendo]

It's right behind Persona 4 and FFX as the best JRPG that gen. It's really fucking good. Shame there will never be a sequel.