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Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,180
Panzer Dragoon Zwei is legitimately the best rail shmup ever made, IMO.

Yeah no arguments. It's remarkable how much Andromeda added - multiple routes, dragon evolution, super attack, more fleshed out characters and story, ground-based gameplay... all while upping the graphical ante on a system that "didn't do 3D well." Arguably one of the most improved sequels of all time... and I absolutely adore the first one.

Can't believe Futatsugi was in his mid-20s when he made these games, boggles the mind.
 
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SirNinja

SirNinja

One Winged Slayer
Member
Yeah no arguments. It's remarkable how much Andromeda added - multiple routes, dragon evolution, super attack, more fleshed out characters and story, ground-based gameplay... all while upping the graphical ante on a system that "didn't do 3D well." Arguably one of the most improved sequels of all time... and I absolutely adore the first one.

Can't believe Futatsugi was in his mid-20s when he made these games, boggles the mind.
Not to mention going from that to Saga: a full-length RPG with free movement, an incredible battle system, early widescreen support, a story that took PD 1 and 2 to its logical conclusion, and so much more. The series took unimaginable leaps and bounds from game to game, on a single console. It's still a crying shame that those three games and Orta are still the entire mainline PD series, and it's why I & II getting from-the-ground-up remakes for modern consoles is such a big deal.
 

Cugel

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 7, 2017
4,412
Something must be wrong with me, I lost two credits to the guardian at the end of episode 4.
Any tip? I seem to me making so little damage and there is very little space to move around?
 

EccoCid

Member
Mar 7, 2018
703
London
The moment i rotated the camera, I knew something was way off with controls. It lags and its very slow. They kept the enemies speed intact but somehow managed to slowdown the dragon controls.
 

AxkilAvenger

Banned
Apr 8, 2018
1,641
I'm expecting a lot from this up coming update especially in gameplay. I like the game and I want to love it but I can't in it's current state
 

ParsnipForest

Member
Oct 27, 2017
571
Australia
I'm holding off for now to see how a patch or two changes things. I'm not the biggest fan so I can deal with a new art style and sound effects, but I really don't like the look of the reticule or the movement of your dragooooon.
 

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,180
Just fired up the original - just night and day in terms of the lock on and the responsiveness of the 90 degree turns. It also seems to default flight controls (up to nose down etc), but I might have changed that previously in the settings. Explains why the remake's controls were so additionally disorienting for me above and beyond the lock on/rotation issues.
 

residentgrigo

Banned
Oct 30, 2019
3,726
Germany
It´s a mess. 5/10 is what I would give it and I am being nice. Not that the original aged well passed the 90s (I played a bit of the PC version in the 00s) but the 64/100 on MC is shaping up friendly. It´s all so joyless. Even the controls are problematic. No PD 2 for me if it won´t shape up in major ways. At least I can say that I finished the "classic" game now.

They should have just ported Panzer Dragoon Orta instead. Not that this one will help its case or the dead IP. Here is the PD OVA btw:


It´s total shit but technically an "accurate" adaptation.

Edit: The DF on the 2 Saturn shooters:
 
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A6502

Member
Jan 22, 2018
196
It is disappointing read about the problems with the lock on and the camera delay. I think the Graphics are okay and not bad at all. I just hooked up my Saturn play through Panzer Dragoon, and half of Panzer Dragoon Zwei. These games hold up pretty well , I found both to be a lot of fun and harder than I remembered. It takes a few moments for my eyes to adjust to the first-generation Saturn look of the original Panzer Dragoon. But despite low resolution it just looks so right, a product of the era. And Zwei is magnificent in many ways. Camera is lightning fast.

You know they're going to both patch the switch version of the Remake and release better versions for more powerful consoles and PC. Those are the versions that I'm waiting for.
 

Ultraviolence

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,213
The reticle fucking sucks. Why does this not have an option for auto fire again? Why is the firing rate so slow? This is what I get for going in blind I guess. The music is amazing though
 

deadfolk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,525
Glad I held off and didn't grab this sight unseen day one. These issues sound like they would bug the hell out of me.

I'll be there if they fix it up, though. Used to love me some Panzer Dragoon back in the day. At least if they have the sequel coming, there's a real incentive to improve the perception.
 

Bog

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,428
After hearing Greg on Player One do the comparison between this and the Saturn game, it's a hard "Out" for me. What a screwup. I was all ready to drop $60 on the LRG version, too.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
With all the patches on the way I wonder why they bothered to shadowdrop it in the Direct last week if it needed some more fine tuning.

I was gonna buy it day one either way but it's not helping the reception. The reviews are out and turning people away.
 
Aug 12, 2019
5,159
Sad to hear this version seems to be struggling so much, I was looking forward to this...

That said, it all sounds like stuff that can be fixed with patches based upon that video (except for maybe difficulty).
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,319
With all the patches on the way I wonder why they bothered to shadowdrop it in the Direct last week if it needed some more fine tuning.

These kinds of things, the date is set in stone well in advance. They probably thought they could polish everything up in time. Either that or they had been playing their version for so long that they didn't realize that it felt off in comparison to the original.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Sad to hear this version seems to be struggling so much, I was looking forward to this...

That said, it all sounds like stuff that can be fixed with patches based upon that video (except for maybe difficulty).

There are three difficulty levels in the game.

These kinds of things, the date is set in stone well in advance. They probably thought they could polish everything up in time. Either that or they had been playing their version for so long that they didn't realize that it felt off in comparison to the original.

I guess. It's just a bummer that no matter what they do now, all the reviews are out playing the first version of the game.

I really hope we still get Zwei.
 

raketenrolf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,203
Germany
With all the patches on the way I wonder why they bothered to shadowdrop it in the Direct last week if it needed some more fine tuning.

I was gonna buy it day one either way but it's not helping the reception. The reviews are out and turning people away.
Even worse if the version on the LRG cart will be 1.0. Basically the barebones version that nobody wants to play anymore. They should wait until at least all the essential stuff is patched in.
 

Cugel

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 7, 2017
4,412
Honestly having now finished the game a few times... I think nothing is « broken » beyond a few patches.
Graphics are great, sound is alright... just make normal fire faster, dragon smaller, fox lock and turning speed and that's it.
 

Klappdrachen

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,630
Even worse if the version on the LRG cart will be 1.0. Basically the barebones version that nobody wants to play anymore. They should wait until at least all the essential stuff is patched in.
They said that the physical release will not be version 1.0. I think it's going to have at least the first two patches included (I hope...).
 

IronicSonic

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,639
With all the patches on the way I wonder why they bothered to shadowdrop it in the Direct last week if it needed some more fine tuning.

I was gonna buy it day one either way but it's not helping the reception. The reviews are out and turning people away.

The "available now" effect. It's probably the best way to market the game in the short term. Nintendo Directsare huge exposition windows
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
The "available now" effect. It's probably the best way to market the game in the short term. Nintendo Directsare huge exposition windows

Like I don't regret my purchase or anything, but now there's a bunch of reviews about how the game is mediocre at best. That was the best chance this game had to get notoriety.
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,851
Japan
Remaking Saga would be such a big task. I don't think it will happen, but I do hope it will.
In some ways, it's less of one than others. It's a fifteen hour game that was fully voiced and owes something like a fourth of that time to voiced cutscenes. Those kind of production values weren't common at the time, but for a remake they're expected. So it's probably ... Less of an endeavor than a remake of other popular games at the time, but more challenging to really pull off the gameplay and even the cutscene direction.
 
Patch notes: v1.2
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SirNinja

SirNinja

One Winged Slayer
Member
New patch is out and it adds the new soundtrack, as well as a few good quality-of-life improvements.

Patch notes:


Twttier text:
- Additional OST by Saori Kobayashi
- Main SFX rework
- Fix for statistics and save data
- Updates for cutscenes
- New indicators when the enemy is immune to attacks
- HP adjustments for balancing the gameplay
 
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No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,266
Some good stuff in that patch, and I imagine the larger gameplay fixes will be coming with the gyro support later.

But if the poor reticle aiming and general awkwardly sluggish feel is the same for now, it's kind of a wash.
 

rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,003
Either that or they had been playing their version for so long that they didn't realize that it felt off in comparison to the original.

They would had to have ignored literally every hands-on impression from before the game came out for that to be true. These issues were pointed out to them many, many times in the months before release, online and in person.
 

IronicSonic

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,639
Downloading now. I want to hear the new soundtrack and see the updated cut scenes!
Edit: the dragon cry in the intro is even worst! But Remixes OST sounds great (arguably less punch than orchestral score) the volume seems low. I went to the menu and turn down sound efects volume and cranked up the volume of my TV to hear more clearly the new score.
 
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Deleted member 34949

Account closed at user request
Banned
Nov 30, 2017
19,101
The enemy HP balance actually seems more in line with the original now. I feel like even regular enemies (airships, specifically) were more bullet spongey than necessary pre patch.

Arranged OST is okay so far. I've preferred the original versions of each track so far, but it's a nice Orta-esque take on the PD1 OST (Though I don't think it's as great as either OG PD1 or Orta's OST so far)
 
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SirNinja

SirNinja

One Winged Slayer
Member
Liking the new OST. And hey, the tracks even loop properly! Much better than having a 40-second song end and then start over ~3 times during every boss fight.

No actual gameplay fixes though?
There have been some balances to general difficulty. Notably, the Episode 4 boss is now far less bullshit (though still a tough challenge for the unprepared).
 

futurevoid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,987
New soundtrack isn't clicking for me but then it may be because the original score is so damned iconic to me thst its hard to hear anything else while playing. I'll give it time.
 

OrakioRob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,491
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
I know those are two different Kobayashis, but the new OST kind of reminds of Phantasy Star Online. I think the original is perfect, so I'm glad they went with a different vibe for the new arrangements. I've played the original game to death, so it's nice to listen to something different here.

I know the patch notes don't mention it, but I'm definitely locking onto enemies a lot better. Maybe I'm just improving? Do you guys feel any difference to this regard?

EDIT: Don't want to accidentaly spread false info, it looks like it's just me "gitting gud". Some comments from the devs on Twitter suggest changed to lock on are coming in a future patch.
 
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