SEGA LORD X's review, one of the most passionate fans there is of the Saturn and classic Sega
So is there a way I can play the older Panzer Dragoon games on modern systems outside this remake?
So is there a way I can play the older Panzer Dragoon games on modern systems outside this remake?
Zooming out with the right stick helps a lot to avoid those attacks. Also use rapid fire against one arm at time!
Only that it started a few months agoI think I asked this in the other thread but we haven't heard a thing about Zwei's development have we?
I think SEGA are way more strict than people think about this stuff, but these devs are currently the only odd ones out. All of the other titles SEGA licensed out have turned out extremely excellent.
Maybe these devs had especially solid connections or something. Them getting both Panzer Dragoon games AND The House of the Dead 1 and 2 is absolutely insane to me. I am thinking those last two might be silently cancelled though because I doubt the Panzer Dragoon remakes will be all that successful.
Moreso that SEGA has a long history of mistreating the Panzer Dragoon series i.e. losing Saga's code, the PAL port of Orta, this remake releasing in a seemingly rushed state (patching in the new soundtrack), Panzer Dragoon Mini and so on. That's the only interesting thing i've found about this remake since, while it's bad, it's not an especially interesting bad. Visuals are oversaturated, the target reticle's size makes it more difficult to hit your target and the inability to play the original a la Orta just makes a stronger case for porting the latter to PC instead of picking this up. If this is supposed to be the quality expected of a Zwei or Saga remake, then it bodes poorly for the series should its future hinge on this mediocre mess's success.At this point Sega is just giving away their ips like valueless pieces of shit. They have no pride nor self respect whatsoever.
If this is supposed to be the quality expected of a Zwei or Saga remake, then it bodes poorly for the series should its future hinge on this mediocre mess's success.
I completely forgot that got announced, it was only a few weeks ago.The future doesn't hinge on this at all. They've already announced a brand new Panzer Dragoon game, Panzer Dragoon VR, being made by a completely different studio.
I think I just need some time to play while the wife is busy and the kids are sleeping. Abd maybe easy mode too :P
You are seriously undervaluing the incredible work that went into projects like Sonic Mania, Streets of Rage 4, The Dragon's Trap remake, Monster Boy and the like by saying of course they would just be fine. Bad 2D indie games are released all of the time. Look how hit or miss WayForward's games can be, and they are a genuine legacy developer at this point!Of course outsourced 2d games are going to eventually turn out good, with so many indie developers around specializing in metroidvania platformers and 8/16 bit retro-inspired productions.
Trying to do the same thing with bigger, 3d based properties is starting to look like a terrible idea though.
Let's not forget that Sega also asked some unknown European tiny studio to freaking remake the two Shenmue games from the ground up, and they barely managed to come up with a couple of barebone, bug-ridden remasters.
Now a less-than average no-name developer is supposed to handle the full remakes of two of their most hystorical series.
At this point Sega is just giving away their ips like valueless pieces of shit. They have no pride nor self respect whatsoever.
To me, a couple of patches for quicker fire and gyro would be enough to make it very good
If you don't like the panzer dragoon remake, you shouldn't be so miserable. I'm personally disappointed, but slinging insults at people just makes people look bad. At the bare minimum, at least there are eyes on the series right now. There are more games on the horizon, hopefully they take feedback and make them as best they can.
I don't know, i don't think that "at least it exists and it kinda works" should be considered good enough for Shenmue.You are seriously undervaluing the incredible work that went into projects like Sonic Mania, Streets of Rage 4, The Dragon's Trap remake, Monster Boy and the like by saying of course they would just be fine. Bad 2D indie games are released all of the time. Look how hit or miss WayForward's games can be, and they are a genuine legacy developer at this point!
The full Shenmue remakes were never greenlit, it was something the devs looked into doing, but it never went far. Shenmue I & II were handled extremely well all things considered I think (though released a bit sooner than they should have). Just look back a few years to Sonic Adventure DX or Crazy Taxi on XBL/PSN to see how far they have come in terms of quality control. Hell, it still absolutely blows my mind that we got a physical release of Shenmue I & II. Not many publishers do this kind of thing with legacy titles.
"Giving away their IPs like valueless pieces of shit"? You honestly could not sound more bitter. I sort of understand because I think Panzer Dragoon is an especially artistic game that should be handled carefully, but your overreaction here is severe. In just the case of Streets of Rage 4 they have pushed against at least half a dozen if not more attempts at that game in the past. They are not letting just anyone tackle these projects, otherwise we would be seeing followups to their stuff way more often. Look how many games that are inspired by Jet Set Radio, Monkey Ball, Shining Force, their arcade racers and the like popping up in recent years. If they were just letting anyone have their IP these would be licensed too.
If you don't like the panzer dragoon remake, you shouldn't be so miserable. I'm personally disappointed, but slinging insults at people just makes people look bad. At the bare minimum, at least there are eyes on the series right now. There are more games on the horizon, hopefully they take feedback and make them as best they can.
while i get the sentiment ("Its small teams of fans, and the games they made are great and hard work"), it also to the detrement: the aim is to produce small scale products for the fans of back then.
Whell then this was just stupid. If i want to rehaul the whole game, and change even the game feel...why not just make a remake? in this case it should have been easier.No it wasn't. Hence my post outlining the types of difficulties they faced.
Whell then this was just stupid. If i want to rehaul the whole game, and change even the game feel...why not just make a remake? in this case it should have been easier.
This seems more in the vain of OoT 3D, where they used the original code as a base?
With todays engines and tools, developing a on rail shooter from scratch should be easyer than reverse engineering the game from an old code base with probably lacking documentation (like almost every software project).
I've been there, mostly on small scale, but sometimes scraping code and starting from scratch is just faster, easier, and safer ( working on code you dont understand 100% usually leads to security risks...ok, less so for games)
Whell then this was just stupid. If i want to rehaul the whole game, and change even the game feel...why not just make a remake? in this case it should have been easier.
This seems more in the vain of OoT 3D, where they used the original code as a base?
With todays engines and tools, developing a on rail shooter from scratch should be easyer than reverse engineering the game from an old code base with probably lacking documentation (like almost every software project).
I've been there, mostly on small scale, but sometimes scraping code and starting from scratch is just faster, easier, and safer ( working on code you dont understand 100% usually leads to security risks...ok, less so for games)
Ah, okay. Yeah, i was confused what shenmues has to do with this port, and then asumed you were talking about PD when you said it was a port. Good that it was clarified.I think my post might have confused you as we've changed subjects a few time, admittedly my fault for being meandering. To clarify, in case I misunderstood your last post, you were saying shenmue wasn't a port, but a remake? That's not quite right, it wasn't a remake.
Panzer Dragoon? It IS a remake, from the ground up.
There only prior work is... a port of Agony to the switch. I get the feeling this is more a "3-4 guys working from home" team than a "small studio".
Ah, okay. Yeah, i was confused what shenmues has to do with this port, and then asumed you were talking about PD when you said it was a port. Good that it was clarified.
Shenmue is a whole different beast...they left the story open, had a distinct look, and wanted to return to the point where they left of: early 00. A modern shenmou would have looked a lot more like yakuza, the gameplay would have to be modernized, and the story would need a restart, because the first 2 are to far back and most people wouldnot have known it.
So they decided to make a faithfull product, for the fans of back then. -> this will never be mainstream.
With other ips, there are better chances to make entries for new audiences. But it diesnt seem like sega is interested in that.
I looked the developer up...no page on the web, not much info. The game was pushed back 6-9 months.
There only prior work is... a port of Agony to the switch. I get the feeling this is more a "3-4 guys working from home" team than a "small studio". How long are the credits?
And i think they did byte of too much. PD, PDZ, House of the Dead 1 & 2...
and the first one they had to push back6 months for a...flawed game.
Wikipedia says Sushee, but i have seen the interview by a french guy (the studsio is french and polish? confusing) that they did that as a team.I think they also did Fear Effect Sedna, which... wasn't very well received.
Q: Can you tell us the process for getting this project into MegaPixel Studios and Forever Entertainment's hands? Was it a result of SEGA approaching you, or you pitching SEGA?
We pitched SEGA some time ago. We, as a group, I mean Forever, Megapixel and TA Publishing, which are all connected, had the chance to work on existing IPs previously; Fear Effect (Square Enix), Wizardry (Taito…), and we really wanted to work on Panzer Dragoon, as we really thought the game deserved a remake to "relaunch" the IP. So we made the pitch and we had the chance to show it to SEGA. After some discussions, we had in our hand the scope of the project, and the authorization from SEGA. We were extremely excited.
Yeah, shure, developer quality != company, actually, developer quality != stuff they produce. I know some developers that are hugely talented and inteligent developers... on a technical level. I would gove them every port job. But developing something new? with users in mind? reinterpreting old stuff for remakes? well...not so much. There are a lot of roles and decisions in a game making process, and the team needs to handle all of them good, either with key players for each role and good communication, or just multitalented people.ports are not normally handled by studios, ports a normally done by smaller teams like the size you assume ported Shenmue. That's actually a super normal thing.
You can't really judge the talent which works on something by the company they are employed at. I'll give an example with a friend of mine:
Look at this company's credits. Would you trust this company to pull of a competent port of something? They've only released one game. It's a cell phone dungeon crawler (a really good one, I'll add).
Oh, except that studio is run by Eric Kinkead, an extremely well regarded developer in the industry with tons of ports under his belt, as well as working on games like Mortal Kombat II and NBA Jam. Who started programming back on the Atari 800 in microprocessor assembly. There's an adage that you can't judge a book by its cover.
The entire reason I relayed that shenmue story was because of an earlier post above which said Sega was treating their IPs like shit or something else similarly harsh, claiming they licensed it out to "below average" developers. That's a poor reading of the situation, and understanding more the difficulty in finding anybody with expertise to handle the situation is daunting. I wrote a book on dreamcast development, yet I very much doubt I would have been much if any help to said port.
Sega is clearly wining something here. Maybe its lions share of the sales or just testing the market with no costs.Let's not forget that Sega also asked some unknown European tiny studio to freaking remake the two Shenmue games from the ground up, and they barely managed to come up with a couple of barebone, bug-ridden remasters.
Now a less-than average no-name developer is supposed to handle the full remakes of two of their most hystorical series.
At this point Sega is just giving away their ips like valueless pieces of shit. They have no pride
SEGA LORD X's review, one of the most passionate fans there is of the Saturn and classic Sega
I think Futatsugi said recently that the source code was found.
I think Futatsugi said recently that the source code was found.
I just think sega is not involved enough. Not in funding, not in feedback, etc. As far as i know, they show them some stuff from the initial development, have a meeting with the original guys...and leave the development to its own after that.
They never needed the source code, rather porting Saturn games just requires a ton of work. Alot of the time, a ground up remake almost makes more sense.
Looking at the credits, it seems the original developers (now at Grounding Inc. and Land Ho. Inc., rather than Sega) were definitely involved. A lower level programmer at the time of PD was a permanent supervisor.
Not that it means much - the original devs worked on Crimson Dragon. And the remake is at least better than that.
I know, just wanted to let people know that it's likely not lost anymore, because people still talk about it regularly.They never needed the source code, rather porting Saturn games just requires a ton of work. Alot of the time, a ground up remake almost makes more sense.
I don't know how you approach reviving Panzer Dragoon of all series and not have it be about having lots of passion for the series
Looking at the credits, it seems the original developers (now at Grounding Inc. and Land Ho. Inc., rather than Sega) were definitely involved
Yeah Grounding Inc.'s next game is the SWERY game The Good Life and they just released Space Channel 5 VR last month.
IIRC the only other members of Team Andromeda not at either of those companies that are still at SEGA, are part of Nagoshi's dev team (Yakuza devs).