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xir

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,531
Los Angeles, CA
1590 hours. 12 hours comp. I just play quick play classic and mystery heroes and mute mics and it's a fun game

symmetra sure changed though!

I did notice anything that was "random " has disappeared like hanzos scatter arrows
 

dr.rocktopus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,250
The biggest, biggest issue the game has with balance is the fact that in the mid-low ranks, where the majority play, people do not want to play as a team. You can balance till the cows come home but if players refuse to play the actual game infront of them then its for nothing. It is one of the most rock/paper/scissor team games there are but the 'community' don't play that way or care too.

I feel this as well. There's a reasonable level of game sense needed on a personal level. Not even talking about abilities but just straight up positioning and movement that gets punished. But because there are five other people to blame more often than not you get "where's the tanks", "where's the peel", etc., instead of thinking (for example) "hmm this Tracer (probably Chance tbh) is continually kicking my shit in because I am too separated from the team and they can't help me"
 

The Shape

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,027
Brazil
I just bought this game today after seeing a friend have fun with it last week, I still haven't played it, but I feel like I'm entering a battlefield in the middle of a war.
 

Camwi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,375
I don't have much to add to the thread, but I wanted to commend you for a well-made OP.
 
OP
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,570
[...] but I still worry about playerbase fragmentation. You got splits between Quick Play, Classic Quick Play, Role Queue Competitive, Single Queue Competitive, Arcade with it's multitude of modes, Experimental and then Game Browser on top of that as well? Yeah, that's gonna cause a lot of fragmentation.
It's a valid concern, but I don't personally think it'll be a problem. Even now in 2020 when the OW player base is much smaller than it once was I find matches within seconds for everything from Arcade to Open Queue Competitive. And if you're willing to play a tank or support then even Role Queue finds matches rather quickly. And this is all despite the game browser being constantly filled with hundreds of lobbies.
 
Oct 16, 2020
273
They buffed the hell out her ages ago; for a while now she's the closest she's ever been to an unironically good character (although still very situational at higher-levels, but she always was, just even moreso).
Might download and have a look. One update massively reduced the number of turrets she could have out at once, and all it removed the fun of setting up ambushes.
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
It was pretty bad yeah but it didnt lead to what felt like damn near a year of the same exact team comps. The dva buff period was really bad too
how it played out to me was that these problems were just on the the boiling point anyway and brigitte just brought all the stupids out of the woodwork, the yongyea types. "overwatch didn't die...it was murdered, by brigitte!" etc.
 

Soma

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,091
San Francisco
I was thinking about this the other day but which hero has been the least changed/adjusted since they were introduced to the game? Tracer maybe?
 

Fiddle

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,627
Personally I think it's because the game doesn't have a tonne of depth to its mechanics, so it's hard to diversify yourself mechanically. The game over emphasises the Rock Paper Scissors style design where too many heroes just beat x hero, because of their kit, because of their character.

So with a low mechanical skill ceiling, it leaves very little room for the players themselves to have their individual characteristics influence how the game is played, and instead, it comes down to which characters are picked, and the overall team strategy that's employed.

Paladins and typical mobas have less of these balance issues because while they have overpowered characters and balance issues, they have tremendous skill ceilings which means that the meta is perpetually shifting and that the characters you pick are not the be and end all of a match. In games like Smite, balance issues exist but these are much more malleable over time, without influence of the developers. You see people finding out new and creative ways to play different characters because of how diverse the game is, and how high its skill ceiling can be, which tends to prevent scenarios where everyone is playing the same set of characters.

Essentially, I'm saying that it's not about the game being unbalanced, that's not the issue, these games are inherently unbalanced because of their diverse roster. However, the issue in Overwatch is that the puzzle pieces here are too simplistic that players figure out that meta too quickly, and the skill ceilings among most of the cast too small to allow that meta to fluctuate dependent on player ability. As such the problem here is that you get these waves of stagnation, as players figure out the meta, play it to death, and then hate the game.

The issue isn't the character specific changes that Blizzard make, its instead at the heart of Overwatch's design.

You NAILED it. The game is flawed right at its core, and it's impossible to fix without it being an entirely different game.
 

Lazlow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,137
I feel this as well. There's a reasonable level of game sense needed on a personal level. Not even talking about abilities but just straight up positioning and movement that gets punished. But because there are five other people to blame more often than not you get "where's the tanks", "where's the peel", etc., instead of thinking (for example) "hmm this Tracer (probably Chance tbh) is continually kicking my shit in because I am too separated from the team and they can't help me"

This too but I was talking an even more basic level. For example, for each role:

Healer: If you're playing Zen then you're a character with low mobility and survivability. If they are playing characters like Doom, Tracer, Winston, Genji then get off him because you're easily countered (even if your ult is great against one of those, it's no good saving for an ult if you're constantly killed)

Tank: If you're playing Rein then your job is to shield and push forward but you're slow and vulnerable to high damage against the shield. So if the other team have Junk, Bastion, Soldier, Hanzo, Sombra, Hog and your team have no characters that make use of the shield then you're countered.

Damage: Genji, fast with high damage...a glass cannon. Mcree is a hard counter, Brig will mess with you (even moira), winston can ruin your day.

The point is that every character will have a counter and that character a counter etc The reason they didn't want 2/2/2 in comp for so long was because they wanted the team composition to change dynamically but it just didn't happen.
 

Rirse

Member
Jun 29, 2019
2,016
Besides what mention about the never ending balance issue, with poor Brig always getting a nerf if anyone even thinks about her for a second, the other reason I just don't play much anymore is the lack of anything new. Over in Team Fortress 2, I played it for years and years because they were still introducing new weapons, hats, and outfit modifers to the evergreen pool that you can earn over time with crafting, drop in-game, or of course the loot crates. Meanwhile on Overwatch I had for a long time all the white and blue and purple tier skins and voice lines/sprays. So anytime I get a loot box during a non-event it just nothing unless it a gold. And even then there is nothing to get excited for since the evergreen gold skins been the same two skins with varients since launch for all characters, with maybe Rein and Mei having a extra one from the Blizzard World update or a new character like Sigma having their two news skins and varients.

And with no new character or map, the only time I really play is when a event is going on like the Symmetra one which I even not played a lot of due to just rather play Apex right now with it being on Steam finally or the annual events which honestly are pretty stale at this point but do at least like getting a outfit for characters I use. But that said, there no reason to even buy a lootbox anymore here. There is no unusual hat like TF2 that I can sell or trade for something on Steam, the lootboxes just going to be three whites and a blue worth of coins, MAYBE A PURPLE THING IN COINS, or a gold that is just some bad skin that been around at launch I have no desire to use.

Don't get me wrong, Apex isn't much better at times with their lootbox system, as it worst then Overwatch with gold banners or sprays which is just ugh, but at least it has new content and heroes coming out still. A shame since I loved Team Fortress 2 and Overwatch, but both are just feeling stale at times. Only so many times I play random hero and get mad at the other two getting two bastions and a orisa and a mercy and we get the snipers.
 

Canucked

Comics Council 2020 & Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Canada
I was super into Overwatch at launch and I think I got hit by some changes that kind of killed the momentum for me. I really tried to be diverse in heroes but I definitely gravitated toward support heroes. So when Mercy was first changed I didn't like it but I tried to adapt, I used her less and rotated some damage heroes in with Lucio and Sym. Then the cut Lucio's healing in half or maybe it was the timing of it (it's been a while) and I didn't feel effective with him and then I heard about changes with Sym coming and I kind of just deflated. They really focused on balancing support heroes for a while.

I left the game completely because of the toxicicty but the character changes were kind of a pile on for that. I want to go back sometime though.
 

Freedonia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,042
Overwatch's honey-moon period at launch was magical, even if McCree fan the hammer and hero stacking were bad. Outside of that it was so much fun, between pushing the payload and koth the game felt like an amazing hero shooter/arena shooter hybrid: the characters were vibrant and had diverse playstyles that felt like homages to different games, weapons, and playstyles throughout gaming history, it was something else. Unfortunately the game lost me when they kept introducing characters w/ stun moves, and when they had stuff like shield/armor metas. To me the game started feeling like less and less of a shooter, and I got annoyed at how hard it was for an individual to carry a team, while one troll/underperforming could easily sink the team. It all just lost its appeal for me so I moved on. Overall I would say that the new characters w/ stun moves made the game worse for me than the drastic balance patches, although I was always bummed out when they would nerf Roadhog (I understand it from a balance perspective though)
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,210
I come in and out of Overwatch, usually at the beginning of competitive seasons and yeah, the changes to some of the characters can be jarring. Bridgette was my healer main along with Lucio and it was taken aback by just how weaker she'd became or when Reaper was made super strong seemingly just to counter a Meta in the league and Master/Grandmaster levels or when they made those silly map and character rotations that meant you playing Volskaya Industries every second game.

I guess if I had a team, it would be Orisa, D.Va, Ashe/Tracer, Symmetra, Lucio and Bridgette and it feels like Tracer/Ashe is the only ones out of them that have stayed consistent for good and for bad.

Be really curious in how Overwatch 2 affects things.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,043
I was thinking about this the other day but which hero has been the least changed/adjusted since they were introduced to the game? Tracer maybe?

Tracer changes I think have only been for her Pulse Bomb ultimate. It is a lot less powerful than it use to be.

Outside of her, Pharah perhaps? I think she got some hover changes and maybe some splash damage differences but she's pretty similar to her launch version as well.
 

Shake Appeal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,883
Tracer changes I think have only been for her Pulse Bomb ultimate. It is a lot less powerful than it use to be.

Outside of her, Pharah perhaps? I think she got some hover changes and maybe some splash damage differences but she's pretty similar to her launch version as well.
They've been doing more aggressive stuff with Pharah lately (you can cancel her thrusters and stuff, she moves a lot faster in the air), though her abilities are all basically untouched.

I will say the game is, right now, in some of the best shape it's ever been, at least from the point of view of my regular group. It feels like there's a lot more variety to comps and styles than I can remember at any point after the (messy, unbalanced) fun of launch.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,570
Overwatch's honey-moon period at launch was magical, even if McCree fan the hammer and hero stacking were bad. Outside of that it was so much fun, between pushing the payload and koth the game felt like an amazing hero shooter/arena shooter hybrid: the characters were vibrant and had diverse playstyles that felt like homages to different games, weapons, and playstyles throughout gaming history, it was something else.
Definitely. While I was one of the people vocally calling for disabling character dupes on teams during those wild early days, it was overall such a fun time for the game. There was no heavy emphasis yet on sticking to a specific team comp, and everyone was just messing around with these wonderfully designed heroes who all brought something interesting to the table. And like you said, I loved how many of the heroes' gameplay hooks served as sort of homages to other popular shooters that came before it. Like I remember being enamored with Pharah because she reminded me of Quake 3.

One thing that is so unfortunate to me is that all of these balancing struggles and other missteps (combined with the naturally toxic nature of online, team-based competitive games) have taken away from all of the things that Overwatch has always done so well. It's just a fun, beautiful world to play in. If you just take a step back and forget about specific gameplay or balancing niggles for a moment, almost anyone should be able to admit that Overwatch is an awesome IP packed to the brim with potential, polish, creativity, and heart. It has failed to live up to some of its stratospheric potential over the years, but I can't help but hope that OW2 will inject some of that old positivity back into the franchise.
 

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
ELACbSH.jpg
Thread winner.
 

Rirse

Member
Jun 29, 2019
2,016
Another thing that annoys me in Overwatch is it really wants you to win matches and you are treated like shit if you lose a match. The current Sym event requires nine wins to get her new skin with loss giving you nothing. This is the same system used in arcade to earn free lootboxes upon three wins. The thing when you loss in game you get a near pitiful amount of XP compare to a win but there is another factor. Last year or so they added the endorsement system to reward good players with free lootboxes every three weeks or so and can after a match just reward teammates or even the other team endorsement. Except if you lose, you almost guarantee to get no endorsement at all and your endorsement level drains down if you don't earn enough. So constantly I would drop down to 3 because I get loss and get nothing in return. I know winning is what you want in these games but they just really hate if you lose.
 

Symphony

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
Oh, so they actually decided to bring back the free hero selection that Overwatch was sold on then? Role queue and enforced 2-2-2 was what made me quit the game for good, it was a core element of the product and they tossed it away in some pathetic attempt to rebalance the game after they refused to address Brigitte for a year. There was absolutely nothing more enjoyable for me and the group I played with than wholescale changing our comp when we were losing and managing to turn everything around (we were all flex players with strange hero pools that worked well together).
 

GrandHarrier

Member
Oct 25, 2017
300
The biggest sin was the fact that they made 20+ fucking DPS characters and like 6 support/tanks.

Get the fuck over DPS characters. Make good, fun, interesting tanks and supports.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,570
Oh, so they actually decided to bring back the free hero selection that Overwatch was sold on then? Role queue and enforced 2-2-2 was what made me quit the game for good, it was a core element of the product and they tossed it away in some pathetic attempt to rebalance the game after they refused to address Brigitte for a year. There was absolutely nothing more enjoyable for me and the group I played with than wholescale changing our comp when we were losing and managing to turn everything around (we were all flex players with strange hero pools that worked well together).
Yeah, it's back and exists in its own competitive mode now alongside Role Queue. It has a separate SR and everything.

It's the best of both worlds because if you want to play the game as it was originally intended (and with a really short matchmaking wait time), go Open Queue. And if you feel like guaranteeing yourself a specific role and a 2-2-2 team you can just run a few Role Queue matches as well.

Having the choice brought me back to the game, and it's really fun again.
 

Canucked

Comics Council 2020 & Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Canada
Why didn't the original four roles work out. Offense, Defense, Support and Tank? Why did it move to three roles?
 

HououinKyouma

The Wise Ones
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,366
My multiplayer GOTG, but I can definitely acknowledge the game has had (and continues to have) balancing issues. The patches really have me scratching my head at times.

I'm excited for Overwatch 2, but not as much as I thought I'd be. The upcoming trailers are going to be critical.
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,559
My problem with OW balancing is that they take whatever is the biggest problem with one of the heroes, nerf that problem to an unnecessary degree rather than find a good middle ground, and then nerf or do a random complete change to something else completely unrelated to the main issue.
The fact they left Ana useless for like 7 months in 2017 because they removed the nano boost speed boost, then dropped her damage from 80 to 60, still baffles me to this day. I mained Ana, and I agreed that 80 damage was silly, but after like 5 minutes of playing her post nerf it was clear that 70 would've fixed the problem but not made her a joke pick. I don't even know how half this stuff leaves the PTS tbh.
How many buffs/nerfs haven't left the PTS?
 
OP
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,570
Why didn't the original four roles work out. Offense, Defense, Support and Tank? Why did it move to three roles?
I'm not sure, but if I had to guess it's because that would be too hard to structure role queue around when it's six people on a team and you're going to be playing attack for one half of the match and defense for the other.

That and the defense category was always basically damage-focused anyway.
 

Fugu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,726
I played Overwatch at a high level (peaked near the bottom of T500 in dive and about a year(?) later in double sniper) starting from day one for a couple of years until I finally gave up around role queue since, as a primarily DPS player, my queue times had just gotten completely out of hand. While Overwatch has balance problems, I have never really felt that it was "balance" in particular that was the game's problem. This isn't to say the game isn't or wasn't poorly balanced, but rather that it wasn't what was making the game unfun to play. No, what really killed Overwatch for me was how they systematically pushed the player base more and more towards low mechanical skill heroes (see: GOATs) making the game very unpleasant to play at high levels if you actually want to win.

This is actually a completely natural consequence of pursuing a kind of balance whereby you aim to make the low mechanical skill heroes as powerful as the high mechanical skill heroes. It is obvious that, in practice, even at a very high level people are going to gravitate towards the easy to play heroes since doing so completely eliminates the risk associated with making mechanical mistakes. This is, in fact, how GOATs happened, and indeed how Brig came to replace Tracer as a must-pick. While GOATs is no longer meta/possible, I don't think the game ever really recovered from this decision.

The game peaked with dive. Dive wasn't the best balanced meta, but it was certainly the most fun: play was extremely active, you had to be quick and flexible, and fights were far more nuanced than they are now.

(I'll also add that Pharah and Mei, my two favorite DPS heroes, both feel completely terrible to play now, and this is something of an ongoing theme with Blizzard. The gas change to Pharah in particular is something that any experienced Pharah player could have told them would be a terrible idea, and this whole situation could have been avoided easily.)
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,041
Why didn't the original four roles work out. Offense, Defense, Support and Tank? Why did it move to three roles?

"Defense" was a real muddy definition. Also having defense characters meant the attacking team has less options.

They tried to break the tank/dps/healer trinity , and lost.
 

Z-Brownie

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,897
You NAILED it. The game is flawed right at its core, and it's impossible to fix without it being an entirely different game.
i always talked to a friend about the problem with overwatch being "Blizzard not assuming the game as it is, and trying to fix something that was never broken to please a audience that never really cared". The results is what we are reading ... people that loved the game and cared about it when it was released having to drop it because it wasn't fun anymore. Right now, i could care less for OW2 tbh.
 

7thFloor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,621
U.S.
i always felt that the best iteration of overwatch was shortly after launch, but maybe it just felt new at the time
 

MCD

Honest Work
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,724
Why didn't the original four roles work out. Offense, Defense, Support and Tank? Why did it move to three roles?

www.dexerto.com

Jeff Kaplan reveals his biggest regret with Overwatch development - Dexerto

The leader of Overwatch's dev team, Jeff Kaplan, has opened up about his biggest regret in development during a recent Reddit AMA.

"Sometimes I wish we had kept offense and defense heroes rather than merging them into damage, and only allowing offense heroes to be played on attack, and defense to be played on defense," he admitted.

"I know that idea might sound crazy and stupid but I think it would have allowed us to more 'all in' on some 'niche' hero designs like Torb, Symmetra and Bastion."

They make a lot of mistakes but we all do, devs are humans after all.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,465
I'm not sure, but if I had to guess it's because that would be too hard to structure role queue around when it's six people on a team and you're going to be playing attack for one half of the match and defense for the other.

That and the defense category was always basically damage-focused anyway.

Attack and defence are not roles, they are modes of play that all DPS can shift into. That's why they were merged, because they didn't represent a distinct category of play to begin with.

Obviously, some characters are better at offensive, or defensive playstyles, but the game requires that you are always able to both attack, and defend, you can't just be one of those roles. It really never made a lot of sense out of the gate.
 

Fugu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,726
The problem with the offense/defense distinction is that it both didn't describe when you should actually use the heroes and was effectively shorthand for "useful"/"not useful" for a significant percentage of the game's life.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,570
i always felt that the best iteration of overwatch was shortly after launch, but maybe it just felt new at the time
For me it was around the time Ana was added to the game. At that point all of the characters felt fun and the toxicity revolving around hero picks hadn't yet reached its peak in mid-rank competitive play.

Or maybe I'm just saying that because Ana quickly became one of my mains after she was added.
 
Feb 16, 2018
2,679
i was looking forward to the game because it's such an easy to genre to make a game for, and i thought a company with blizzard's resources had a decent chance of getting it right

looks like they doubled down on flawed game modes instead of finding a better way to play with such an interesting set of characters

maybe there's only so much you can do when there's some sort of mandate that anyone must be able to get kills just by pressing a 'perform ultimate' button. payload & capture point forcing players to be in a certain place is the only way to let that happen?

i might have actually played the game beyond beta if dying vs ults didn't feel like nonsense every single time
 

Ramirez

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,227
I had thousands of hours in OW across PS4/PC in the early years. Every time I try to go back I feel lost though, I have no idea if my old mains are meta anymore and just feel like the game has passed me by.

I always hated how it seemed like Blizzard balanced around whiny ass Genji/Tracer mains. Oh, someone can counter you easily? Can't have that!
 

Fugu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,726
i was looking forward to the game because it's such an easy to genre to make a game for, and i thought a company with blizzard's resources had a decent chance of getting it right

looks like they doubled down on flawed game modes instead of finding a better way to play with such an interesting set of characters

maybe there's only so much you can do when there's some sort of mandate that anyone must be able to get kills just by pressing a 'perform ultimate' button. payload & capture point forcing players to be in a certain place is the only way to let that happen?

i might have actually played the game beyond beta if dying vs ults didn't feel like nonsense every single time
Overwatch would've almost certainly been a better game if they abandoned (or at least radically altered) the concept of ultimates altogether. The "get ults and steamroll" problem has been at the core of so much of what is wrong with the game.
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,108
NYC
Overwatch is one of my most played games ever. It got really rough for a while with the GOATS/triple tank meta, and all this shit that brig enabled. Too many powerful abilities that didnt require aim but only timing and cooldown management, and some of the most powerful characters like brig didnt even need much of that.

I completely disagree with OP about 2-2-2 being a bad thing, it saved the game to me. Not by itself and not immediately but it was the start of a year long road to revamping the philosophy behind how characters are balanced and its finally been in a really really great spot this year since shields were nerfed.

All in all even if the game isnt perfect, the fact that they're not being so precious with significant patches only being once a year and ramping them up to near monthly, the game almost always feels fresh from a balance POV. It's a shame that it took them years to get to that place as Im aware that they lost a lot of playerbase and mindshare during that time. But its not like the game is lacking at all for a player base, DPS q sucks but thats the unfortunate drawback of 2-2-2 (and imo, the fact that theres so many fewer tank and support characters than DPS. more choice=more interest in the role). The competitive scene is still great to watch too so no complaints there (well complaints about tier 2 being a joke until very recently, again way too late).

Overall tho the biggest shitty thing right now is the wait for updates outside of balance patches because of their choice to halt updates until OW2, which appears to be the same game anyway just with a campaign mode.

Overwatch would've almost certainly been a better game if they abandoned (or at least radically altered) the concept of ultimates altogether. The "get ults and steamroll" problem has been at the core of so much of what is wrong with the game.
It really is a hard thing to balance around. Because you can counter ults with ults, but the in between can become just a spam-fest waiting game. The game is much better balanced now that fights can be decided in neutral instead of something more extreme the other way like the goats meta where you had just both teams beating on each other with no one dying unitl 6 ults on each side started flying and then MAYBE someone died.

I do admit I wish they did something a bit different with ults, like each character had 2 ults each with a specific drawback so there'sa choice of how it's used contextually. Idk just spitballing. EIther way as is, how the ults are now is just how teh game is played I dont think there's anything necessarily WRONG with it, tho it is limiting.
 

Canucked

Comics Council 2020 & Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Canada

Semfry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,951
How many buffs/nerfs haven't left the PTS?

For a lot of it's life part of the problem was that PTR had a disconnect in that it was always intended more for finding gamebreaking bugs than actual feedback on the balance changes (which is something Blizzard admitted about it). Now that experimental has come along it's a lot better because PTR is generally for new features, general QOL changes etc and experimental is where the actual major hero balance changes get tried out (and, while there's still issues, the feedback actually tends to be acted on). Especially paired with the much more regular updates that mean even if something people dislike slips through it's changed in a couple of weeks rather than occasionally lingering for literal months like it used to.
 

Solidsnakejej

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,741
Fort Lauderdale
I don't know why people keep bringing up the Mercy rework, Her initial design was bad, imagine get shit for healing your team as a healer. No go hide so you can rez us when we die, don't act as a member of this team during your fight. It was a dumb ult.

The 2-2-2 thing yea there are cons to it but since introduction I haven't felt like I've lost a game at the start because I got 4 Mercy 1 tricks on my team.
 

Dartastic

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,779
I still play from time to time with my friends, but I'd be lying if I said I enjoyed the game anywhere near as much as I did a couple years ago. It just got changed so much, and the role selection just obliterated my desire to play. Over half the characters in the game it seems like are DPS characters, and yet there's a 10 minute long wait to play as one. It's bullshit, especially as a tank because you rely on DPS players. If they suck, your rating just goes into the toilet.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,150
For me it was around the time Ana was added to the game. At that point all of the characters felt fun and the toxicity revolving around hero picks hadn't yet reached its peak in mid-rank competitive play.

Or maybe I'm just saying that because Ana quickly became one of my mains after she was added.
Everyone has a period of time with Overwatch they remember more fondly than others. When Ana was added, you could literally build up her ult a bit before any combat was even seen in the game leading to such a quick Nano it was hilariously stupid. I enjoyed the early Ana does but it's 100% something I never want the game to go back to. If anything Ana is in a really strong position currently.

*edit*

I do want to address one thing I keep seeing, the DPS queue is not on average, 10 minutes. I've been jumping back in to OW for fun a lot more lately and playing DPS which I never used to do, on average that wait has been 5-6 minutes no matter the time of day. Maybe the Competitive Queue is different for it, but I've been sticking to QuickPlay.
 

Briareos

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,035
Maine
I completely disagree with OP about 2-2-2 being a bad thing, it saved the game to me. Not by itself and not immediately but it was the start of a year long road to revamping the philosophy behind how characters are balanced and its finally been in a really really great spot this year since shields were nerfed.
Agreed, the only real issues I have right now around core gameplay are what were pointed out upthread, namely that many dps players don't feel motivated to rotate when they are being countered. Not sure what you do about that, but of course very frustrating when you're a support player and powerless to fix the team's inability to push, etc. Basically support should be able to leave match without penalty if there is a Genji on their team :).

Beyond that, I wish they had stopped introducing new characters and let things just gel with minor tweaks. For instance Echo doesn't bring anything interesting to the game in my opinion, and while acknowledging resources aren't fungible, I would have rather seen that effort put into more compelling and new PvE content.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,384
When a game is balanced around .1% of the player base, you're not going to have a good time because it makes some heroes not worth playing (because they have be nerfed so hard as to prevent OP exploits by pros).