• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

J.Devesh

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
479
You don't have to American to know that Indians aren't Black people lol regardless if people aren't familiar with the cultural nuances that concern hairstyles it's best to not post in a thread like this. Just read it
I was referring to the hairstyle situation.

For what concerns Indian people as black, yes it's a little bit shocking XD

Also I don't agree. If you don't know the specific situation is a good practice to ask what is the problem.

For us non-americans it's hard sometimes to understand the USA 😅
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
You don't have to American to know that Indians aren't Black people lol regardless if people aren't familiar with the cultural nuances that concern hairstyles it's best to not post in a thread like this. Just read it
You are right. I apologize for being ignorant.
It definitely happens in the real world all the time. Especially in the US when people abandon things we might consider cultural markers or identifiers and people place you in a racial box from first glance. You can always refer to that famous (and offensive) Seinfeld episode with Elaine's "I thought he was black" boyfriend.
As I said before it was a mixup of Pharah and Symetra from my part that lead to a very unfortunate comment. And yes, the US has a much more delicate system of how to identify certain people of certain races. I think it is important for the rest of the world to learn in order to improve cultural sensibilities.
I was referring to the hairstyle situation.

For what concerns Indian people as black, yes it's a little bit shocking XD
As I said. Dumb comment from me and I fully apologize.

Why are non-white female characters held to a much higher standard than characters who aren't?

I am not trying to say cultural appropriation isn't an issue and I understand it can be but in a case like this one I feel like they are a thinly veiled excuse for some other prejudice.

latest


Where was the outrage over this skin? A white male Swedish character with a skin based on, and named after, Zhang Fei, a Chinese military general.

But if Mei got a skin based on, oh I don't know, Jeanne d'Arc, I wonder if the community would be as accepting...
Zhang Fei is supposed to be a bit fat, very brash... so yeah it kinda fits.

Also Zhang Fei unlike Guan Yu doesnt have a big religious following so maybe it is less controversial.
 
Last edited:

J.Devesh

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
479
You are right. I apologize for being ignorant.

As I said before it was a mixup of Pharah and Symetra from my part that lead to a very unfortunate comment. And yes, the US has a much more delicate system of how to identify certain people of certain races. I think it is important for the rest of the world to learn in order to improve cultural sensibilities.

As I said. Dumb comment from me and I fully apologize.
Understanding the errors is always a good thing! This is how we can build a more equal society 😊
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,157
Gentrified Brooklyn
Woof at this post.
Overwatch's biggest sin here was having a nod towards black female culture, but no black female characters in it. Just because you culturally appropriate another cultural appropriation doesn't make it a good look. On top of the fact that when black people wear those styles they still get demonized for it to the point we have new PBS specials getting made about it.

www.pbs.org

How hair discrimination impacts Black Americans in their personal lives and the workplace

Last month, Connecticut became one of a growing number of states to make race-based hair discrimination illegal. Yamiche Alcindor reports on how Black Americans often face discrimination because of the way they wear their hair, especially in school and at work.

Some of you are probably thinking its people being sensitive. You too would be sensitive if when someone non-black wears it its cool and edgy, even for practical reasons like the MMA. But someone black wears it, there's a shitload of extra shit they have to deal with.

This would have been less of an issue if they gave actual black women representation before black women hairstyles, lol.

And keep in mind its a bit different for a MMA fighter to rock it for practical reasons as opposed to a multibillion dollar brand using it for its character where they have a hole they've been called out for in that kind of representation.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,421
The fact that it's functional doesn't make it ok either.

Excuse me? Considering the hairstyle is being done strictly for functionality and nothing else it very much does. By all means go after Blizzard for putting a hairstyle before a black woman character in their "super inclusive" (by their own words which they bask on the recognition as much as they can) game, that's an entire valid thing to push against, but this idea that women fighters can't do their hair in a way that actually lets them fight is incredibly ridiculous. Its either that or shaving their head or not fighting, you know, something women took a long time fighting for the right to do and still fight to get it properly recognized to this day. WMMA already have enough hurdles in its way, don't fucking put another one.
 

Mesoian

â–² Legend â–²
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,522
For a little more context for people who aren't getting why this is a problem IN GENERAL:



You should watch this movie. The end is a little...bleh, but it does a good job framing the issue at hand.
 

squall23

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,780
Why are non-white female characters held to a much higher standard than characters who aren't?

I am not trying to say cultural appropriation isn't an issue and I understand it can be but in a case like this one I feel like they are a thinly veiled excuse for some other prejudice.

latest


Where was the outrage over this skin? A white male Swedish character with a skin based on, and named after, Zhang Fei, a Chinese military general.

But if Mei got a skin based on, oh I don't know, Jeanne d'Arc, I wonder if the community would be as accepting...
Because you don't get to decide the outrage. Were Chinese people angry at the skin? No? OK then.

In this thread alone, there are black posters that do and don't care about this issue, but only their opinion should matter.
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
Because you don't get to decide the outrage. Were Chinese people angry at the skin? No? OK then.

In this thread alone, there are black posters that do and don't care about this issue, but only their opinion should matter.
If anything I would think chinese people would be opposed of Hanzo having a Huang Zhong costume as Japan has colonialized parts of China in the 19th-20th century. However I never looked at chinese forums at that time and I also dont understand chinese so I dont know if there was any outrage.
 
Dec 27, 2019
6,080
Seattle
Excuse me? Considering the hairstyle is being done strictly for functionality and nothing else it very much does. By all means go after Blizzard for putting a hairstyle before a black woman character in their "super inclusive" (by their own words which they bask on the recognition as much as they can) game, that's an entire valid thing to push against, but this idea that women fighters can't do their hair in a way that actually lets them fight is incredibly ridiculous.
Black people are not alone in figuring out short hairstyles or braids. There are plenty of other haircuts worn by fighters.
 

Era Uma Vez

Member
Feb 5, 2020
3,210
You have to consider that a lot of people here are not from the USA and they don't know in deep this kind or racial problems.

For example, in Italy in the past we had a lot of immigration from east Europe, north Africa and Middle-East but the immigration from central and south Africa is a more recent thing.

A lot of this cultural issues never happened here and seing people with certain hairstiles has usually never lead to discrimination.

A similar situation can be applied to a lot of european countries too.
i'm also European, and I casually watch Calcio, so I know that you know damn well that Italy is filled with racism. If anything, it's even worst than the US, because at least most people in the US can admit that there is a racial problem. Italy just pretends nothing is going on, and can't go 3 months without having a black football player getting bananas thrown at them in the middle of a game.
And this are the public displays of racism, that they allow the whole world to see. I'm scared to know whats going on on the day-to-day, altough I've heard enough stories.
But yes, Italy doesnt have racial issues, its US only, blah, blah.
Low effort troll.
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,421
Black people are not alone in figuring out short hairstyles or braids. There are plenty of other haircuts worn by fighters.

You don't get to tell a woman what haircut she must have if she wants to be a fighter. Cornrows are a pratical way to keep your hair as you want outside the ring and still fight, which is why its so widespread around all divisions. Amanda Nunes, a brazilian fighter from Salvador, Bahia, isn't doing cornrows to "appropriate black culture", she's doing it to do her job properly. This forum is unbelievable sometimes.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,217
Why are non-white female characters held to a much higher standard than characters who aren't?

Not sure on the standards mix. If they had given Mercy the same hairstyle I think there would be the same eyebrows raised.

Confused on the Joan of Arc bit as well. What's the similarity between Mei having a skin of her and having a Black hairstyle in the game?
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
Putting the Mei skin aside, the amount of people dismissing the entire concept of cultural appropriation when it comes to hair is honestly disgusting. If you haven't experienced discrimination when it comes to this just shut up and sit down.
 

Unaha-Closp

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,727
Scotland
I'm a white as fuck Scotsman and if Black people are telling you cornrows are Black then listen to them you fucking cunts. Holy shit it's not hard to just listen. 'I don't see a problem' and 'everyone gets outraged nowadays' is you just stating 'I am ignorant of this topic and do not want to engage my brain at any level but I absolutely think I am 100% right because of course I am'. Have some interest in others once in a while why don't you?
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
Not sure on the standards mix. If they had given Mercy the same hairstyle I think there would be the same eyebrows raised.

I think you make a good point there and I hadn't considered it.

Confused on the Joan of Arc bit as well. What's the similarity between Mei having a skin of her and having a Black hairstyle in the game?

My impression is that there have been a lot of skins in Overwatch with non-Asian characters appropriating elements of Asian culture, including Mercy, Brigitte, Reinhardt, Baptiste that didn't receive much criticism for cultural appropriation. I'm not trying to equate the two forms of appropriation but to me they both seem like forms of cultural appropriation.

What I failed to consider that there are examples of non-white female characters that have received similar skins like Widowmaker and Symmetra wearing a Qipao so my previous post doesn't hold much weight when put to scrutiny so I apologize for that and not taking the concerns as seriously as I should have.

I'll edit my original post to remove my wrong opinion.
 

Deleted member 12833

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,078
I'm a white as fuck Scotsman and if Black people are telling you cornrows are Black then listen to them you fucking cunts. Holy shit it's not hard to just listen. 'I don't see a problem' and 'everyone gets outraged nowadays' is you just stating 'I am ignorant of this topic and do not want to engage my brain at any level but I absolutely think I am 100% right because of course I am'. Have some interest in others once in a while why don't you?
There are plenty of black and multiracial people in this topic disagreeing so it's really not that.

Individuals(fighters) are in the clear because they are individuals and can do whatever the hell they want with their body and hair. Blizzard is in the clear because they are modeling after a fighter that wears their hair like that in an industry where it is common to do so for its function. There are plenty of things to go at Blizzard for but this isn't one worth fighting imo
 

Deleted member 5127

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,584
User Banned (permanent): dismissing concerns around cultural appropriation, prior severe ban for derailing a serious discussion with insensitive and inflammatory commentary
Cornrows were done in Ancient Greece.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
Aren't dreads like that super common in MMA to make sure their hair doesn't get in the way? It seems like an actual situation where there is a specific function to the hairstyle.
 

Justified

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,022
Atlanta
This issue goes beyond Overwatch and MMA if people are wondering why this is being called out, Sure combat fighters use cornrows for functional reasons, but culturally cornrows are a black thing. Functionality doesn't dismiss appropriation. Cornrows are not even healthy for straight hair (in general), the nature of the style can lead to hair loss, this is why White and Asian women mostly go with french braids. (most protective hairstyles are bad for straight hair)

The "outrage" is mostly due to black people, to this day, are still being discriminated against for their hair and hairstyle by non-black people, yet non-black people wear the styles because its "functional".

Just recently here in Atlanta a local city had to pass a LAW to stop workplaces from discriminating against place hair and hairstyles!! Crazy as this is 2021

image.png
 
Last edited:

Onebadlion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,189
I'm a white as fuck Scotsman and if Black people are telling you cornrows are Black then listen to them you fucking cunts. Holy shit it's not hard to just listen. 'I don't see a problem' and 'everyone gets outraged nowadays' is you just stating 'I am ignorant of this topic and do not want to engage my brain at any level but I absolutely think I am 100% right because of course I am'. Have some interest in others once in a while why don't you?

You'll find not all black people are in agreement in this particular situation. There is a functional reason why women MMA fighters style their hair like this, as plenty of people have pointed out.

If anyone looks ignorant, it's you coming in here calling people cunts.
 

Elyian

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,466
This issue goes beyond Overwatch and MMA if people are wondering why this is being called out, Sure combat fighters use cornrows for functional reasons, but culturally cornrows are a black thing. Cornrows are not even healthy for straight hair (in general), the nature of the style can lead to hair loss, this is why White and Asian women mostly go with french braids.

The "outrage" is mostly due to black people, to this day, are still being discriminated against for their hair and hairstyle by non-black people, yet non-black people wear the styles because its "functional".

Just recently here in Atlanta a local city had to pass a LAW to stop workplaces from discriminating against place hair and hairstyles!! Crazy as this is 2021

image.png
This is the shit right here that needs highlighting.
 
staff post

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
While there is a conversation to have around MMA fighters and the hairstyles they choose to use for utilitarian purposes, this thread is not about that. The design may have been based off an MMA fighter, but the character is not an MMA fighter.

The conversation is about cultural appropriation and the optics of giving non-black characters black hairstyles before actually adding any female black characters to the game.

Please do not dismiss the legitimate concerns that black members have with moves like this.
 

Giga Man

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,227
I don't care what hairstyle someone wears, but that entire mess looks ugly on Mei.
 

Dizzy Ukulele

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,013
I fear my timing is flawed but the overall conversation has got me curious. In terms of functionality, that ponytail looks like a bit of a weak spot to me.

E0UBDK0WYBMc3ug.jpg
 

Urban Scholar

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,603
Florida
So we got energy to tell how us Black people are wrong? For shit that you have no say or have a stake in our livelihoods?

Hey guess what, do you know hair discrimination isn't gone for every* state ? Just some?

When you Goggle unprofessional business hairstyles, BLACK HAIRSTYLES come up. I wonder why that is?

Anyway for a space that really claims to be progressive or whatever yall tell yourselves what you are. Yall sure have a lot of to say about Black people business when you get a use out of our culture, hair, art, etc etc.

And if you're one of those clowns that don't think Black hair isn't culture try to get Bantu Knots. And when your hair falls out? Black people told you so.
 

Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,116
So many people just immediately dismissing the issue despite long threads about this exact same sort of subject in the past where black posters explained the frustration of it.
 

Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
While there is a conversation to have around MMA fighters and the hairstyles they choose to use for utilitarian purposes, this thread is not about that. The design may have been based off an MMA fighter, but the character is not an MMA fighter.

The conversation is about cultural appropriation and the optics of giving non-black characters black hairstyles before actually adding any female black characters to the game.

Please do not dismiss the legitimate concerns that black members have with moves like this.
Just want to say thanks to everyone involved in clearing this thread up.
So many people just immediately dismissing the issue despite long threads about this exact same sort of subject in the past where black posters explained the frustration of it.
Yeah it's really upsetting.
 

MonsterMech

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,409
Cornrows are actual very common for women fighters regardless of race. I don't think this is a case of cultural appropriation.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
20,699
I fear my timing is flawed but the overall conversation has got me curious. In terms of functionality, that ponytail looks like a bit of a weak spot to me.

E0UBDK0WYBMc3ug.jpg
The ponytail completely undermines the point that those that were being dismissive were making. "Protection."

Good job to all of you.