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shadowhaxor

EIC of Theouterhaven
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,730
Claymont, Delaware
Being online only just for that still isn't worth not allowing many people across the globe to not be even able to play the game at all. There are many games that don't get many complaints about 'cheaters' like the Borderlands games, Remnant from the ashes or any other single player co op game you talk about.. We're far away from a future where most people across the globe have lag free and good enough internet. I'll quote a previous post of mine instead of reiterating what i said to another poster some hours ago...

I'm going to again point out the huge flaw with this game and that's the developer's lack of foresight of not going with dedicated servers. They could have at least helped mitigate some of the issues regarding latency. Having centralized locations would have gone a long way, versus being dependant on peer to peer. Especially since people playing over wifi connections. I hope they revisit this, given the success of the game, well prior to the inventory wipe glitch.
 
OP
OP
AshenOne

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,109
Pakistan
I'm going to again point out the huge flaw with this game and that's the developer's lack of foresight of not going with dedicated servers. They could have at least helped mitigate some of the issues regarding latency. Having centralized locations would have gone a long way, versus being dependant on peer to peer. Especially since people playing over wifi connections. I hope they revisit this, given the success of the game, well prior to the inventory wipe glitch.
Yeah i heard some whispers but still unconfirmed info off of twitter that the game is using P2P servers instead of dedicated servers! And it was also pointed out that Square enix mandated always online... the p2p part was hard to believe because this is 2021 afterall and p2p alongside always online is a recipe for disasterous lag and issues. I think if they want to keep it always online, they would have to convert p2p networking for the game to dedicated servers... because this game's population is way over the top and i don't think p2p can tolerate always online with this much of a load for a consistent amount of time... we might be talking months or a year because people apparently are totally loving this game but anyways...thats just me from a non dev's perspective...
 

shadowhaxor

EIC of Theouterhaven
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,730
Claymont, Delaware
Yeah i heard some whispers but still unconfirmed info off of twitter that the game is using P2P servers instead of dedicated servers! And it was also pointed out that Square enix mandated always online... the p2p part was hard to believe because this is 2021 afterall and p2p alongside always online is a recipe for disasterous lag and issues. I think if they want to keep it always online, they would have to convert p2p networking for the game to dedicated servers... because this game's population is way over the top and i don't think p2p can tolerate always online with this much of a load for a consistent amount of time... we might be talking months or a year because people apparently are totally loving this game but anyways...thats just me from a non dev's perspective...

This reminds me of what happened with Ubisoft's For Honor. Eventually, to keep the game alive, they overhauled the entire infrastructure and introduced dedicated servers. And it brought the game back from the brink. I still don't get why anyone thought P2P was the right call here.
 

Kalik

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
4,523
This excuse is horrible, they released it and charged people. There is no grace period for reviewing, money was exchanged. Customers don't get the option of getting the game and not paying till a month in.

but customers do have the option of waiting 1 month and reading full reviews before buying a game...gamers need to be more patient...you don't need to buy every game on Day 1- especially these online and 'games as a service' types
 

Snake Eater

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,385
Underdog indie publisher Square-Enix should be given a break guys
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,693
"publishers/devs should be doing so much better but they don't because they feel entitled to that price hike"

no Jim, they don't do better because gamers keep buying this garbage.

This game was at normal price.

Between the MTX stuff and the "price hike" complaint. I'm not sure they knew knew the game didn't have either.
 

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,095
San Jose, Costa Rica
I definitely see the flaws, but I have also noticed the improvements since day 1. On day 1 I could not play with friends, lag was unbearable. I could not log in half the time.

2 days later all of that got massive improvements. 2 weeks later the game is super smooth in single player.

I recognize that there is still lag in co-op and NOW there is the added risk of wiping out your inventory, but there is promise, and the way the devs have been crystal clear in all of their communications have been exemplary. I trust that in some more weeks we will all have a great experience all around.

This does not takes away the fact that the issues were and in some measure are still in there. As consumers, we should have gotten a more stable product. But there is a GREAT game at the base of all this.

To Jim: this type of criticism seems unfair and disingenous. Yes, point out the flaws, but also point out the level of improvement and quality of communication the devs are displaying. Measure and compare the launch date with 10 days later, use some data and metrics. Inform your audience.

Btw the game has always looked great in my XSX, no graphical errors of any kind. Maybe I got lucky.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,512
Bandung Indonesia
Between the MTX stuff and the "price hike" complaint. I'm not sure they knew knew the game didn't have either.

It's easy to surmise that they're not talking about the MTX and the price hike in relation specifically to Outriders, but rather using the game as a jumping point to talk about them in a more general manner, languishing about how they think many game companies are doing MTX and price hike but they keep delivering inferior products.

I honestly don't understand how you could have missed that.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,693
It's easy to surmise that they're not talking about the MTX and the price hike in relation specifically to Outriders, but rather using the game as a jumping point to talk about them in a more general manner, languishing about how they think many game companies are doing MTX and price hike but they keep delivering inferior products.

I honestly don't understand how you could have missed that.

I think I mentioned it like once (maybe twice)? Unless your mistaken me for someone else. I haven't exactly been going hard on that point.
 

DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
Does this guy ever make a video where he is not whining or complaining in some overly dramatic faction about something or are those just the ones that gain traction here?
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,512
Bandung Indonesia
I think I mentioned it like once (maybe twice)? Unless your mistaken me for someone else. I haven't exactly been going hard on that point.

Well, like I said, they're not talking about MTX and Price Hike in relation to Outriders, and it's really easy to surmise that if you actually pay attention to the video, I don't necessarily agree with all the points they had in the video, but no need to conjure arguments derived from false pretenses either in order to put Jim's argument down.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
It's easy to surmise that they're not talking about the MTX and the price hike in relation specifically to Outriders, but rather using the game as a jumping point to talk about them in a more general manner, languishing about how they think many game companies are doing MTX and price hike but they keep delivering inferior products.

I honestly don't understand how you could have missed that.

They've complained about that across many videos at this point. There was no need to sneak any of that rant in a video dedicated to a game that doesn't have any of that.
It could easily mislead folks who aren't aware of the game that it's a $70 game with egregious MTX.
 

Youngfossil

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,670
but customers do have the option of waiting 1 month and reading full reviews before buying a game...gamers need to be more patient...you don't need to buy every game on Day 1- especially these online and 'games as a service' types
They released the game, people paid ful price and are playing it. Dont defend these horrible practices. Come on...
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,512
Bandung Indonesia
They've complained about that across many videos at this point. There was no need to sneak any of that rant in a video dedicated to a game that doesn't have any of that.
It could easily mislead folks who aren't aware of the game that it's a $70 game with egregious MTX.

Not really, unless those folks are the ones who aren't paying attention or the ones who are so ready to put-down Jim's video that they're immediately jumping in to argue about something that aren't really there. I only need to watch the video just once, and not really seriously watching it even, to know that they're not really talking about Outriders but more like things in general.

And it's understandable why Jim felt the need to include the rant, if they feel like Outriders is a solid example where publishers charged full price for a product that is filled with so many egregious issues, even if it doesn't contain MTX and a price hike. And honestly? I kinda feel the same way too.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
And it's understandable why Jim felt the need to include the rant, if they feel like Outriders is a solid example where publishers charged full price for a product that is filled with so many egregious issues, even if it doesn't contain MTX and a price hike. And honestly? I kinda feel the same way too.

it has temporary, launch window connectivity issues that will be fixed. There's an OT for the game where it's clear people are getting through to playing the game and enjoying it for what it is.

'charged full price' as if the developer deliberately planned to launch a game with serious issues. what does the price have to do with anything? You think people won't be just as frustrated if it were a $30 game?

The game is online only. It requires a constant internet connection to play. That is by design, and is not a bug or a sign of rot in AAA gaming or and 'egregious issue' or whatever. If that's a dealbreaker, there's always the refund route.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,512
Bandung Indonesia
it has temporary, launch window connectivity issues that will be fixed. There's an OT for the game where it's clear people are getting through to playing the game and enjoying it for what it is.

'charged full price' as if the developer deliberately planned to launch a game with serious issues. what does the price have to do with anything? You think people won't be just as frustrated if it were a $30 game?

The game is online only. It requires a constant internet connection to play. That is by design, and is not a bug or a sign of rot in AAA gaming or and 'egregious issue' or whatever. If that's a dealbreaker, there's always the refund route.

Uh, of course the price has to do with everything; when people pay for more the expectations will be more, and yes of course people would be more forgiving if this is a 30 dollar game.

The problem is not online only, the problem is there are so many errors caused by the always online requirement, some of which incredibly unforgiving like inability to play and connect for long periods of time, incredible lag, and even in the case of Outriders a whole inventory wipeout in a looter game.
 

Yankee Ruin X

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,686
I got to challenge tier 10in expeditions before my character got wiped on Saturday. They had put a patch out to say the inventory wipe bug should be somewhat resolved so logged in, joined an expedition and it crashed. Tried to log back in and my character is naked and a few seconds after logging in it crashes because it can't find my stuff I guess. Was really annoyed by this but have started a new character now and blasting through it again.

I really enjoy the game and seems like they are going to restore characters hit with the inventory bug so thats ok. By far the most annoying thing about the game for me is the signing in bug. I have had to restart the game countless times just trying to login at the start screen because I get stuck at the signing in screen.
 

mordecaii83

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,862
I bought the game a couple days ago and just beat the story today and hadn't checked any of the threads for it, so while I was playing and getting all these weird bugs like cutscenes cutting off words, NPC's being invisible, quest objectives being invisible or not updating on the map, etc I was wondering if it was just me.

While I'm glad to now know that it wasn't just me, it sucks that the game is a buggy mess since it's a fun game overall.
 

Corralx

Member
Aug 23, 2018
1,176
London, UK
I have had about 45 crashes to the menu on PS5 in probably 10 hours of co-op play. It would literally happen every 10-15 minutes.

One thing I anecdotally noted in this and other threads is that console versions seem to have *a lot* more problem than the PC version.
Most of the people with serious issues seem to be on consoles, while most of people saying it's mostly being alright seem to be on PC.
So this might probably be why different people have such different experiences.
 

Magneto

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,449
One thing I anecdotally noted in this and other threads is that console versions seem to have *a lot* more problem than the PC version.
Most of the people with serious issues seem to be on consoles, while most of people saying it's mostly being alright seem to be on PC.
Funny to read that when me and my friends are having a ton of issues on the PC version. From crashes to framerate locking randomly.
 

Corralx

Member
Aug 23, 2018
1,176
London, UK
Funny to read that when me and my friends are having a ton of issues on the PC version. From crashes to framerate locking randomly.

Then I give up.
I'm sorry if I said the game is not a piece of shit worth of refund, and only existing to feed the greed of Square Enix.
And I'm sorry I'm enjoying the game with my special not broken version the developers have provided me.
 

Magneto

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,449
Then I give up.
I'm sorry if I said the game is not a piece of shit worth of refund, and only existing to feed the greed of Square Enix.
And I'm sorry I'm enjoying the game with my special not broken version the developers have provided me.
There's no need to apologize. But looking at the Reddit everyday since the release, i'm seeing a lot of people having issues on PC. Even more than people on consoles because the optimization for now is all over the place on PC, and there was also that stuttery mess that we had to fix by ourselves (Windows Defender + The pad configuration on Steam).

So i'm really wondering where did you saw that everything was mostly being alright on PC, because it's simply not real.
 

Corralx

Member
Aug 23, 2018
1,176
London, UK
There's no need to apologize. But looking at the Reddit everyday since the release, i'm seeing a lot of people having issues on PC. Even more than people on consoles because the optimization for now is all over the place on PC, and there was also that stuttery mess that we had to fix by ourselves (Windows Defender + The pad configuration on Steam).

So i'm really wondering where did you saw that everything was mostly being alright on PC, because it's simply not real.

People have commented on reddit and even in this very thread as well.
I'm not saying the game doesn't have issues, nor I'm claiming that people that had serious issues or multiple crashes are lying.
I'm not trying to minimise their experience.
I'm just trying to offer *my* perspective which is on average more positive because the discourse is of course skewed by people with serious issues (as it's common in this cases, after all if you have no issues, you probably would not write in the first place), and I think despite everything Outriders is a good game and the labour of love from a small developer that doesn't deserve the bullshit spewed in the video in OP.

I think the game is not perfect, but it's not nearly as bad as Cyberpunk 2077 was (using it as a recent example).
My problem was more with the extreme, incorrect and foul bullshit in the video, more than with people having honest issues.
 

Swarming1182

Member
Jan 14, 2018
476
Why does everything have to be so outrageous with Sterling? Nothing can ever just be a bit frustrating or kind of suck. It always has to be this huge slight against CoNsUmErS, offensive to players, exploitative or whatever.

They spent like half of the video ranting about micro transactions in a game which DOESN'T HAVE ANY

Game's buggy. That sucks. Hopefully it gets fixed soon. My guess is they couldn't possibly have expected the numbers of players they have right now and don't know how to scale servers etc. up to match the demand.
 

Arctic Chris

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,175
Ottawa Canada
As soon at Sterling started ranting about micro-transactions in this game I turned off the video. I can overlook not knowing the actual price of the game (not a $70 game) as they probably received the game for free but to then say the greedy publishers/developer is further lining their pockets with MTX revenue - sorry but that is a lie. Outrides has no MTX. Everything else was bang on (I have never experienced the endless falling or spawning below the map - but that would not have surprised me launch weekend). Why add lies to embellish your video? Is the constant crashing, being unable to log in to the game, and now losing inventory not juicy enough for the Sterling audience?
 

Dunlop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,479
it sucks that the game is a buggy mess since it's a fun game overall.
This should be on the box at retail.

I've put about 72 hours in as the game is a blast, but it is also the buggiest game I have played in a long time with the worst multiplayer functionality I have ever seen. Using the built in LFG utility for Xbox has been the only reason the multiplayer is usable for me
 

mordecaii83

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,862
As soon at Sterling started ranting about micro-transactions in this game I turned off the video. I can overlook not knowing the actual price of the game (not a $70 game) as they probably received the game for free but to then say the greedy publishers/developer is further lining their pockets with MTX revenue - sorry but that is a lie. Outrides has no MTX. Everything else was bang on (I have never experienced the endless falling or spawning below the map - but that would not have surprised me launch weekend). Why add lies to embellish your video? Is the constant crashing, being unable to log in to the game, and now losing inventory not juicy enough for the Sterling audience?
Oh wow, Jim was claiming they had MTX? If you're going to make a video slamming a game you should probably make sure your info is correct first, shame on Sterling.
This should be on the box at retail.

I've put about 72 hours in as the game is a blast, but it is also the buggiest game I have played in a long time with the worst multiplayer functionality I have ever seen. Using the built in LFG utility for Xbox has been the only reason the multiplayer is usable for me
I haven't even touched multiplayer yet, too scared to due to the inventory wipe bug.
 
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Absolute

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,090
Did Jim Stephanie say this game had micro transactions? I thought they were going off on a tangent of generally shitty practices by publishers that release broken/buggy games like this.

Not surprised to see people defending releasing early access games at full price. "Games need a grace period" no, games need to be marked early access if they are early access and priced accordingly.

Also had a good laugh at "do they ever make positive videos?". Nooooo you can't just point out bad things in muh vidya!!!!
 

Crash331

Member
Oct 28, 2017
420
User Warned: Ignoring Staff Post That Asks to Respect Sterlings Pronouns
No, Jim didn't claim the game has MTX. He was talking about the publishers and industry in general, not Outriders and not People Can Fly.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,512
Bandung Indonesia
Did Jim Stephanie say this game had micro transactions? I thought they were going off on a tangent of generally shitty practices by publishers that release broken/buggy games like this.

Not surprised to see people defending releasing early access games at full price. "Games need a grace period" no, games need to be marked early access if they are early access and priced accordingly.

Also had a good laugh at "do they ever make positive videos?". Nooooo you can't just point out bad things in muh vidya!!!!
No, Jim didn't claim the game has MTX. He was talking about the publishers and industry in general, not Outriders and not People Can Fly.

Like I said before in this thread, yes, this.

It's really easy to surmise what they were talking about in this video if you actually pay attention--or heck, actually, even if you're not really paying attention. Mindblowing that some people couldn't get that.

Oh wow, Jim was claiming they had MTX? If you're going to make a video slamming a game you should probably make sure your info is correct first, shame on Sterling.

And before you made a point about what they said in the video, perhaps you should actually watch the video first instead of just nodding at what someone else is saying?
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
I get why they would make a video like this if they were unable to get into the game and it was bugged to fuck when they eventually did.
But my experience with Outriders was very different, and barring some (mild for me in Europe) connectivity issues in the first few days, it was mostly fine.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Not surprised to see people defending releasing early access games at full price.

Also unsurprising to see people parroting the 'early access' line. The term means something, and that's not for a full game release with bugs that are being actively worked on for a short term fix.

But we've already established that it's much more lucrative to use labels like 'Shitty' and 'garbage' in these videos. Labels that are in short supply in the thriving OT on the site.

"Games need a grace period" no, games need to be marked early access if they are early access and priced accordingly.

Good thing the game isn't early access, eh?
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,512
Bandung Indonesia
I get why they would make a video like this if they were unable to get into the game and it was bugged to fuck when they eventually did.
But my experience with Outriders was very different, and barring some (mild for me in Europe) connectivity issues in the first few days, it was mostly fine.

Generally speaking SP is just fine, it's when you start to mess with MP then horrors like inventory wipes start to show their ugly head.
 

Matthias

alt account
Banned
Mar 10, 2021
341
you have to give these types of games 1 month before writing a full review...1 week is too little

Disagree. A game should be judged by its state on release. With that said, if you don't support companies releasing unfinished products to get revenue earlier and/or avoid some costs, the solution is blindingly obvious.
 

Dunlop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,479
Generally speaking SP is just fine, it's when you start to mess with MP then horrors like inventory wipes start to show their ugly head.
They're are many many posts on the Reddit inventory wipe thread who were not playing multiplayer.

Anyone is at risk due to the always online requirement and the abysmal system being used by the game
 

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,246
I liked this persons videos for a while but they do tend to sound off on what the crowd wants to hear on topics. That said Outriders is indeed one of the most surprisingly satisfying looter games made imo but the fact that so many parts of it simply do not work and seemingly never worked before launch as well is indeed unacceptable. It's hard to stick up for a game when there are so many caveats to counter each positive currently.

I do think this game will be fixed. I do. But it's now week two and my patience has long past for a game I dropped money on to straight up not have big features it touted like always online co-op to not work and if I do join someone, it will be a near unplayable nightmare.
 
Jimquisition regarding Outriders: Aka the game is still bad for them after 19 days of launch. Talks about the criticism they faced regarding their Jimpressions video..
OP
OP
AshenOne

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,109
Pakistan



So looks like Jim still is having issues till april 19th when they recorded this Jimquisition.

They do talk about the criticism they faced when they made the jimpressions video a week or so ago.....