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Error 52

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
2,032
and while that was all happening microsoft tried twice to make some dumb walled garden garbage that was heartily dismissed, making everyone even more skeptical of random big companies trying to get into the PC market

once even having the gall to charge us for online

it's almost like pc customers have learned to fight for what they want and that it ends up working out for them
Pfft, when has gamers complaining ever changed anything?

Except for the Xbox One policy upheaval, removing lootboxes in Star Wars Battlefront 2, Forza Motorsport 7, and Payday 2, the DMC and Ace Combat un-reboots, Fortnite & Rocket League cross-play, Deus Ex Augment Your Pre-Order, online passes, Fallout 76 bags, Rainbow Six censorship...

Probably some shit I'm missing.
 

ByWatterson

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,302
User Banned (1 Day) - Ignoring EGS Guidelines Post
I really don't understand why any players care. I suppose having one ecosystem is convenient, but it's not like you can't play the game. It's still available on the platform in question, PC.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
Yeah.

Anyone that defends the EGS in its current state and the practices they employ is an idiot.

Great, you aren't affected or bothered by Epic money-hatting exclusives in an attempt to directly reduce competition and gain a monopoly. It's also a platform that lacks any kind of decent feature set and has a history of security concerns

In short: No one gives a shit that you aren't 'affected' by blatant anti-consumer practices.

Is this how you protest, by badgering others, name-calling, and using aggressive tactics on anyone else who doesn't share your own beliefs? How about you only worry about how you want to spend your entertainment funds.

Put me on ignore, problem solved.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,162
What does it matter when they said it?

They said it, it's on the crowdfunding place and it's still there for you to see.

edit
I just realized who I'm talking to. YIKES
What's that supposed to mean?

Did they say they planned to release on Steam before collecting funding? That's why the date is relevant. It sounds like you don't know.
 

Deleted member 3897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,638
I really don't understand why any players care. I suppose having one ecosystem is convenient, but it's not like you can't play the game. It's still available on the platform in question, PC.

I don't want to buy it on the Epic Store because:

1) I can't support Epic moneyhatting third party exclusives, as far as I know, no other company with a launcher does that
2) Cloud Saves and playtime tracking is super important to me
3) The lack of in-game overlay like Steam, Origin and UPlay is incredible annoying and infuriating'
4) All other features that comes with Steam that I have taken for granted: Worskop, universal controller support, universal VR Api, achievements, guides, Big Picture mode etc.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,360
Exclusivity deals aren't necessarily terrible in my view but it becomes a problem when the party that holds the exclusivity isn't interested in offering a good service. Epic's client is currently a mere launcher without features such as an overlay, trophies, cloud saves, community etc. but that's far from the biggest issue in my opinion; the biggest issue is their whole strategy and unwillingness to implement features they know people want, such as forums, reviews and refunds. I'm aware they backtracked on refunds because they got a lot of flak for it, but I think their stance is still relevant since it's quite telling how they're completely oblivious how a good service is provided.

They also mentioned they're not going to implement any form of trading card system. I don't care for trading cards myself but I just find that statement odd and makes me wonder why that is important to point out, or what the harm would be by implementing it. Their whole approach of going "no, we're not going to be Steam or compete with Steam" is not something I think of as a benefit in any capacity.

I have a lot of issues Valve and their hands-off approach but Epic's strategy is not viable from where I stand.
Agreed. My problem isn't really the exclusivity part (EA pioneered this years ago), but forcing people to use a VASTLY inferior product that's missing extremely basic features (like wishlists and voice chat) annoys the shit out of me. They find time to keep spending money on shit like new outfits in Fortnite and moneyhatting developers, but they're still 6-12 months out for basic fucking features. Why can't devs still release their stuff on Steam with a 30% markup compared to the EGS? That way people that want it cheap can still get it from the EGS and the people that want it on Steam will pay 30% more, but still get basic stuff like wishlists and voice chat.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
Funny, I've also worked with several Tencent's companies. They've told me completely different story, off the record of course.
I don't know when you got your information, but maybe it's not current. The government circa 2015-2016 (when Tencent was making major global acquisitions) is very different from how it is now.

The official reasoning is to protect Epic's employees that are based within China. Doesn't explain why Ubisoft doesn't follow suit.
This is one part I never really understood. Why is EGS not allowed in China?
Replying to y'all together because the answer is related.

To monetize in China, games need to receive a license from the government. Games like Tencent's PUBG Mobile have been operating in China without any revenue, awaiting a license--which is why they recently "rebranded" into Game for Peace to pass licensing (https://venturebeat.com/2019/05/10/...hina-earns-14-million-in-first-3-days-on-ios/ ).

Because Tencent has a 48% ownership stake in Epic, anything Epic does in China would fall on Tencent. The licensing procedure is quite complicated and lengthy, and requires that a foreign developer go through a domestic company for publishing. This is why storefronts are not (legally) blanket accessible--because each individual game would need to go through the licensing procedure and get a domestic publisher, and that's not viable for a storefront to handle (nor is it generally worth it for most developers, as China has very specific tastes when it comes to games and most Western indie titles probably wouldn't pass muster).

Ubisoft's store is available in China because they actually do get select games licensed in China, and are operating 100% legally.
EA, Steam, and most other storefronts are NOT operating legally, but there are open loopholes to allow Chinese users to access their products that these companies are willingly not closing because they like money.
EGS has closed the loophole, because of their relationship with Tencent, as noted above.

Strategically, Epic absolutely wants China money. Everyone wants China money--it's just that the barrier to entry muddies the return on investment. Fortnite does operate in China, although it's not nearly as successful as the PUBG franchise.
 

Siresly

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,618
I really don't understand why any players care. I suppose having one ecosystem is convenient, but it's not like you can't play the game. It's still available on the platform in question, PC.
For me EGS games cost up to about 30% more.

It is increasingly bizarre how people want to believe there is no reason why so many have been opposing a thing for so long, and laid out their reasons why for the same amount of time. It's closing in on being the equivalent of reacting to someone being on fire with "what are they flailing about? what a weirdo!" At some point I hope it'll loop around to become humorous.
 
Last edited:

rpm

Into the Woods
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,367
Parts Unknown
I really don't understand why any players care. I suppose having one ecosystem is convenient, but it's not like you can't play the game. It's still available on the platform in question, PC.
Ironic that your profile picture is of one of America's greatest writers, but you can't read any of the million threads full of posts that will answer your question for you and have to have people spoonfeed you this information

Maybe, just maybe, some of the things people have against Epic don't affect me as much as they do to
Is this how you protest, by badgering others, name-calling, and using aggressive tactics on anyone else who doesn't share your own beliefs? How about you only worry about how you want to spend your entertainment funds.

Put me on ignore, problem solved.
You: "I don't give a shit about other's issues or opinions"
Also you: "How dare you say you don't 'give a shit' about my opinions"

If you don't give a shit about why people don't like the EGS, why are you even here?
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
Agreed. My problem isn't really the exclusivity part (EA pioneered this years ago), but forcing people to use a VASTLY inferior product that's missing extremely basic features (like wishlists and voice chat) annoys the shit out of me. They find time to keep spending money on shit like new outfits in Fortnite and moneyhatting developers, but they're still 6-12 months out for basic fucking features. Why can't devs still release their stuff on Steam with a 30% markup compared to the EGS? That way people that want it cheap can still get it from the EGS and the people that want it on Steam will pay 30% more, but still get basic stuff like wishlists and voice chat.
Presumably because EGS mandates the exclusivity clause.
 

Ganado

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,177
I don't want to buy it on the Epic Store because:

1) I can't support Epic moneyhatting third party exclusives, as far as I know, no other company with a launcher does that
2) Cloud Saves and playtime tracking is super important to me
3) The lack of in-game overlay like Steam, Origin and UPlay is incredible annoying and infuriating'
4) All other features that comes with Steam that I have taken for granted: Worskop, universal controller support, universal VR Api, achievements, guides, Big Picture mode etc.
"B-b-but I'd never use these features!! Why are you so mad about them!! I DONT NEED THEM SO NEITHER DO YOU!".
Ironic that your profile picture is of one of America's greatest writers, but you can't read any of the million threads full of posts that will answer your question for you and have to have people spoonfeed you this information



You: "I don't give a shit about other's issues or opinions"
Also you: "How dare you say you don't 'give a shit' about my opinions"

If you don't give a shit about why people don't like the EGS, why are you even here?
The million dollar question. If only someone knew... ;)
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
Really? Look at the thread and all the post saying "expected", "i've seen this a mile away" etc. It's completely different because people were dismissive there.
There's a lot of factors in that case (it was going to be the only UE4 game on Vita, a handheld that was niche at best, the Switch had since launched and basically killed the Vita stone dead) whereby I don't think it's a great comparison. But yeah, I did see a bunch of outrage from Vita loyalists (mainly on Twitter), so I do think you're wrong here.
 

The_R3medy

Member
Jan 22, 2018
2,867
Wisconsin
This isn't the best look, though from a financial perspective I understand it. Game Devs are being offered guaranteed money from Epic to be an exclusive, and with independent games, even those with big Kickstarter backing, their is tremendous risk to making the game.

Tangentially related: Does anyone wish this game or the Outer World would change their name? I keep seeing one and thinking it's the other haha.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
I don't know when you got your information, but maybe it's not current. The government circa 2015-2016 (when Tencent was making major global acquisitions) is very different from how it is now.



Replying to y'all together because the answer is related.

To monetize in China, games need to receive a license from the government. Games like Tencent's PUBG Mobile have been operating in China without any revenue, awaiting a license--which is why they recently "rebranded" into Game for Peace to pass licensing (https://venturebeat.com/2019/05/10/...hina-earns-14-million-in-first-3-days-on-ios/ ).

Because Tencent has a 48% ownership stake in Epic, anything Epic does in China would fall on Tencent. The licensing procedure is quite complicated and lengthy, and requires that a foreign developer go through a domestic company for publishing. This is why storefronts are not (legally) blanket accessible--because each individual game would need to go through the licensing procedure and get a domestic publisher, and that's not viable for a storefront to handle (nor is it generally worth it for most developers, as China has very specific tastes when it comes to games and most Western indie titles probably wouldn't pass muster).

Ubisoft's store is available in China because they actually do get select games licensed in China, and are operating 100% legally.
EA, Steam, and most other storefronts are NOT operating legally, but there are open loopholes to allow Chinese users to access their products that these companies are willingly not closing because they like money.
EGS has closed the loophole, because of their relationship with Tencent, as noted above.

Strategically, Epic absolutely wants China money. Everyone wants China money--it's just that the barrier to entry muddies the return on investment. Fortnite does operate in China, although it's not nearly as successful as the PUBG franchise.

Thanks, very informative.

Ironic that your profile picture is of one of America's greatest writers, but you can't read any of the million threads full of posts that will answer your question for you and have to have people spoonfeed you this information



You: "I don't give a shit about other's issues or opinions"
Also you: "How dare you say you don't give a shit about my opinions"

I never said that and you are purposely taking it out of context because I don't share your views. I was responding to another who wanted to label me as a Steam hater or a troll because Epic Store is not impacting me as it is with others. It's like a religious cult here so I'm going to ignore this thread like I have with other Epic topics because they all lead to the same place, "either you are with me or fuck off and die" attitude.

It's sad how people take videogames to such levels and how hostile forums can be.
 

Solaris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,295
How about you only worry about how you want to spend your entertainment funds.

You've made it quite clear in this thread that you only care about how this situation affects you personally and not anyone else

Considering you've already established your selfishness and are now trying to force it onto me - why are you bothered by people criticising the EGS when you aren't bothered by how their anti-consumer policies affect people?
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,655
The Epic Store didn't exist when this was crowdfunded, so how did they "lure crowdfunders"? That's a weird way to frame this
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,730
There's a lot of factors in that case (it was going to be the only UE4 game on Vita, a handheld that was niche at best, the Switch had since launched and basically killed the Vita stone dead) whereby I don't think it's a great comparison. But yeah, I did see a bunch of outrage from Vita loyalists (mainly on Twitter), so I do think you're wrong here.
I don't use twitter so I'm not sure how it went there. All my impression is strictly here on era of which I based my response and quotes in my last reply. As one person in that thread put it. Schadenfreude is rampant here as long is it doesn't affect them personally.

The thread
 

rpm

Into the Woods
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,367
Parts Unknown
Thanks, very informative.



I never said that and you are purposely taking it out of context because I don't share your views. I was responding to another who wanted to label me as a Steam hater or a troll because Epic Store is not impacting me as it is with others. It's like a religious cult here so I'm going to ignore this thread like I have with other Epic topics because they all lead to the same place, "either you are with me or fuck off and die attitude."

It's sad how people take videogames to such levels and how hostile forums can be.
No context is being lost. You said the Epic Store does not impact you as much as it does others. That's all I quoted, and you reaffirm this in the above post. That's fine. Cool. Other people are telling you why it impacts them more than it does you, and you do not care. Again, sure, I guess, you aren't required to give a shit about anyone else's problems. I just don't know why you're still here if you aren't interested in having a conversation, or why you expect others to care about your opinions when you disregard theirs. You're fine with the feature set the EGS offers. Cool. We get it.
 
Last edited:

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,723
USA USA USA
Really? Look at the thread and all the post saying "expected", "i've seen this a mile away" etc. It's completely different because people were dismissive there. Nah YOU weren't paying attention.
even if there wasn't (there was) was it because they shifted development resources and made a decision that it might not be worth it?

or did a company trying to compete with the vita pay them to not release it on that platform?

also in a different hypothetical vita was the most popular platform, the one with the most features, and the one that the majority wanted it on
 

BlueOdin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,014
Isn't Epic's main selling point access to the Fortnite audience which according to their own statement a majority doesn't even use Steam regularly if at all? Then why is it necessary to pay for a game to stay away from other platforms again and again? If that would be willing to drop money on games not named Fortnite shouldn't Epic's userbase not grow naturally over the years?

Or could it be that "access to the Fortnite audience" is a load of horse shit?
 

Adnor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
So another company poisoning the kickstarter/fig well. I hope other indie developers are mad about it.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,730
even if there wasn't (there was) was it because they shifted development resources and made a decision that it might not be worth it?

or did a company trying to compete with the vita pay them to not release it on that platform?

also in a different hypothetical vita was the most popular platform and the one that the majority wanted it on

I just highlighted the reason for you. Whatever the devs for this game or igarashi think of it. It basically boils down to it. Is the money worth it to abandon steam and is it worth it to abandon vita/wii u version?
 

Dr. Ludwig

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,528
Isn't Epic's main selling point access to the Fortnite audience which according to their own statement a majority doesn't even use Steam regularly if at all? Then why is it necessary to pay for a game to stay away from other platforms again and again? If that would be willing to drop money on games not named Fortnite shouldn't Epic's userbase not grow naturally over the years?

Or could it be that "access to the Fortnite audience" is a load of horse shit?

That line of thinking always came across as bizarre to me. "They have the Fortnite audience!" y'know... kids who just wanna play the hottest, latest and easily accessible thing with their friends or saw their their favorite streamers/youtubers play. Epic thinks scooping up all these niche titles (comparatively to Fortnite) will magically translate to high sales because of said audience... right.

Well at least all these publishers and developers are getting paid for the potential lost sales and they can release patched and more content filled versions of the game on Steam once the exclusivity period ends... LOL
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
Isn't Epic's main selling point access to the Fortnite audience which according to their own statement a majority doesn't even use Steam regularly if at all? Then why is it necessary to pay for a game to stay away from other platforms again and again? If that would be willing to drop money on games not named Fortnite shouldn't Epic's userbase not grow naturally over the years?

Or could it be that "access to the Fortnite audience" is a load of horse shit?
Fortnite is (for all intents and purposes) a free to play game. People who play free to play games tend not to buy videogames.
 

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,833
This is deceptive marketing on the developers part. Not that Epic didn't play a role. I hope people who want refunds get it or else I can see a lot of legal action taking place
 

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,239
It's not just Steam that's losing it, Windows Store/Xbox Play anywhere version is also seemingly canceled and removed from accounts. So those who got it from E3 deal last year though luck lol.

Fortnite is (for all intents and purposes) a free to play game. People who play free to play games tend not to buy videogames.

Since, Fortnite audience don't even grab games from free giveaways Epic runs. They almost surely won't pay for another game.
 

Nabs

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,704
This sort of thing has completely killed video game crowdfunding for me.

Isn't Epic's main selling point access to the Fortnite audience which according to their own statement a majority doesn't even use Steam regularly if at all? Then why is it necessary to pay for a game to stay away from other platforms again and again? If that would be willing to drop money on games not named Fortnite shouldn't Epic's userbase not grow naturally over the years?

Or could it be that "access to the Fortnite audience" is a load of horse shit?
They probably tell devs they have 100m users on their platform, but probably hide the fact that Mr. Steamspy has stated that people who play F2P games rarely pay for games.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,723
USA USA USA
Isn't Epic's main selling point access to the Fortnite audience which according to their own statement a majority doesn't even use Steam regularly if at all? Then why is it necessary to pay for a game to stay away from other platforms again and again? If that would be willing to drop money on games not named Fortnite shouldn't Epic's userbase not grow naturally over the years?

Or could it be that "access to the Fortnite audience" is a load of horse shit?

the guy they hired to help run the store said that it was a load of baloney many years ago

And then he just ignored that for lots of money
I just highlighted the reason for you. Whatever the devs for this game or igarashi think of it. It basically boils down to it. Is the money worth it to abandon steam and is it worth it to abandon vita/wii u version?
yeah but is it? the Wii u audience was nothing, will be even less. the PC isn't going anywhere. and these people have long memories. gfwl is still a punchline to this day. It seems like a really bad bet to me.

But we'll see in a year how these games perform on steam
 

Breqesk

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,234
It's not just Steam that's losing it, Windows Store/Xbox Play anywhere version is also seemingly canceled and removed from accounts. So those who got it from E3 deal last year though luck lol.

I definitely still seem to have the copy I got through that E3 giveaway thingy on my account.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,642
This is deceptive marketing on the developers part. Not that Epic didn't play a role. I hope people who want refunds get it or else I can see a lot of legal action taking place

I don't think we can throw Mobius under the bus just yet. The epic store was barely a thing when they put together that marketing, and Annapurna is more likely to be the reason for this happening.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,723
USA USA USA
What lol, this is not true at all.
Based on the above comment, seems Galyonkin stated this?
Wew... I'd definitely challenge that.
https://galyonk.in/your-target-audience-doesn-t-exist-999b78aa77ae

here's the blog post you can read it yourself. it is slightly more nuanced than what its usually said what he wrote but his main takeaways were (from the article):

  1. Gamers are different. Don't overgeneralize.
  2. Just because a gamer plays one game doesn't mean he'll try other games in this genre or on this platform.
  3. The core audience of PC games market that supports developers with smaller titles is rather tiny.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,417
I just highlighted the reason for you. Whatever the devs for this game or igarashi think of it. It basically boils down to it. Is the money worth it to abandon steam and is it worth it to abandon vita/wii u version?

The difference is that Bloodstained couldn't be done on these platforms. It doesn't change the fact that it's outrageous that they took money for those.
 

NCR Ranger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
I guess I won't be buying this game ever. It's annoying when your average publisher does this but I still might get their game eventually. When someone who crowdfunded their game pulls this they can eat a big pile of shit.
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,534
Shame on them for not time traveling to the year 2019 to learn that a new competitor would offer them better revenue share.

SHAAAAAAAAME
You don't think it's bad business to take someones money promising that it will come to the platform of their choice only to later say they can have it a year or more after release.
 

Spaltazar

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,105
a bit ot:

I am trying to recover my epic account that i made ages ago for the Engine, because it uses an email adress that is no longer around so i can eventually let them delete the account for good. this seems to be quite the task, the amount of information required by support is uuuuhh.. i'd rather mail in my passport or some shit. how tf am i supposed to know the creation date of that account. its been for fucking ever and i can't access the email i used to make it back in the day, which is why i went to the support in the first place!
 

morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,058
I'm not a fan of the EGS by any means (it's a shit service that is lacking in several decade old basic features for game buyers) but they have regional pricing in parts of Africa and the Caribbean while Steam does not have any. End result is much cheaper prices.

So that's a load of horseshit.

Epic eats the payment processing fees in those countries like Steam does?

To be clear here, I know the answer is they don't and it often results in those people paying more for the game than they would have on Steam or a 3rd party Steam key reseller.
 
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Thizzles

Banned
Feb 9, 2019
315
Epic is good and their continued exploitation of children is cool and good so long as I get to pick the skins and get the games I want. Just click the store front you fucking loser

Fortnite!
If youre accusing epic of exploitation then feel free to put every single developer who does the same thing with f2p games and sell skins. Im assuming this developer needed more financial backing to help pay their employees and get the game out and epic decided to help. so where was valve? Can they not do the same thing for crowd funded games?
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,162
I guess I won't be buying this game ever. It's annoying when your average publisher does this but I still might get their game eventually. When someone who crowdfunded their game pulls this they can eat a big pile of shit.
It seems like it was the average publisher who did this, Annapurna. Early crowd-investors in the game already got back 220% of their investment, and it's likely it was the publisher who signed with Epic.