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Mr_DyZ

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jun 12, 2019
776
Reading more of the Twitter thread, there's dudes trying to claim there's no connection between the behavior Ninja exhibits and what this child was doing.

There's been psychological studies for the past half century connecting children's behavior to what they watch. They don't mimic the person exactly, either. They mimic the aggression and can even come up with new ways of expressing that aggression that wasn't modeled for them.

The rampant idiocy on Twitter makes my head hurt. Reminds me of some of the dumb shit I saw from people defending sexual harassers.


I mean those people are idiots, but blaming Ninja because a parent(s) let their kid wonder into his stream is so off-base.

Who cares if Ninja whines when he dies in a video game. Some people like to stream to blow off steam. G-PG rated streams and streamers are great, but not everyone wants that. I don't know if he still does it, but he use to have like stream versions, where at during the day he wouldn't curse but in his night "adult" stream he would (also use to label that on his streams somewhere). Not sure that's the case though.

The people in those replies (and her to some extent) shitting on Ninja because he has a "bad streaming mentality" or whatever they're labeling it as are so out of touch. Why does everything/everyone have to be so PG? I'm not arguing that he's a good guy or that he has a good personalty, but blaming someone for doing something he's done for years, day in and day out, is so weird to me. Don't let your kid watch him... seems pretty simple. Weird it's taken those people this long to realize.
 

K Samedi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,989
Man Am I glad I didn't grow up with internet and mobile phones. So much crap on there these days.
 

HiLife

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
39,623
My nephew does the same thing. YouTube all the time just watching other families and kids do...whatever the hell vloggers do.
 

Aswitch

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,118
Los Angeles, CA
Yeah man that's the biggest concern really. We as adults can obviously decipher and see through stuff like that, but Kids are super impressionable.
 

Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,929
Honestly his twitter thing the other day about how if you're not angry it's because you don't care enough does not have much daylight between it and logic employed by abusers to justify their behavior; seeing this an an act of care and love is how these attitudes and behavior are perpetuated and normalized.

Agreed. The Twitter user isn't blaming Ninja solely for her nephew's behavior. She's saying that watching Ninja exacerbates bad habits this child has learned from his abusive father. You make a really good argument for why that would be the case.

I think it's fair to criticize Ninja and other similar content creators whose audiences primarily consist of kids yet these same creators do not demonstrate the emotional maturity to properly address and interact with their young audience

Stories like this are important to demonstrate the effects that exposure to streamer's and YT's unfiltered toxic attitudes can have on susceptible and impressionable youths.

This boy definitely has a lot more stuff going on in his life, but his guardians experimented with just this one variable of exposure to Ninja, and saw a big improvement in the boy's behaviour

And these streamers want to have their cake and eat it, too. All of the benefits from their platform but none of the responsibility.

Well take it off his switch, my son is eight and all his friends play fornite but he knows he's not allowed to. My son tells his friends parents he doesn't play fornite exactly like when we had one of his friends over they said they were vegan. We excepted it and moved on. So you can change things without passing the buck on to the nearest celebrity.

Okay? This kid is in a different situation. The Twitter user explained it in her thread. He's already got behavioral issues and the game provides him with some positive bonding experiences. She's decided that trying to take it away from him would cause more harm than good at this point. And in any case, by removing Ninja as an influence in her nephew's life, his behavior improved. So he can still play Fortnite AND control his aggressive outburts.

The people in those replies (and her to some extent) shitting on Ninja because he has a "bad streaming mentality" or whatever they're labeling it as are so out of touch. Why does everything/everyone have to be so PG? I'm not arguing that he's a good guy or that he has a good personalty, but blaming someone for doing something he's done for years, day in and day out, is so weird to me. Don't let your kid watch him... seems pretty simple. Weird it's taken those people this long to realize.

Things are PG because decades of psychological research have shown that children are easily influenced by what they see and they do not yet have the mental capacity to process the difference between reality and fiction to the extent adults do? I mean, it's not exactly a mystery.

TV and movie regulations take this into account. This is why we have rating systems. They don't try to dumb everything down to make things kid-friendly. They make it so that TV shows and movies (and games) can be clearly labeled so that parents know what to avoid showing their kids. YouTube doesn't have any of that. And Google seems to have no interest in seriously enforcing standards (aside from what they've done with YouTube Kids or whatever) because their algorithm that prioritizes engagement rakes in the case and they don't care about the negative consequences.

Ninja caters to kids. He also sets a bad example. He wants all of the advantage of his position while not dealing with any kind of responsibility he may have to his younger viewers. This person on Twitter did what a good parent (or aunt) does and banned him from watching Ninja. She's concerned about all of the parents who DON'T do this.

You're using too much logic in here and making too much sense.

Get out of here with that nonsense. Didn't you know.. streamers are the devil.

Already explained on the page before why this child is playing Fortnite. It wasn't the Twitter user's choice. She's trying to make the best of a bad situation. And she specifically says in a tweet that she does NOT think all streamers are inherently bad.
 
Last edited:

yurr

Alt-Account
Banned
Nov 20, 2019
946
My little brothers exist on the internet more than I ever did, doing nothing but consuming content from YouTube. It's fucking frightening.
I don't know if I'd go that far. The gen before said that about gaming. The gen before them said it about weed,, the gen before said it about tv, and before that radio.....

Ninja sucks but let's not fall prey to hysteria
 

Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,929
The Twitter user further explained her nephew's situation:




I don't know if I'd go that far. The gen before said that about gaming. The gen before them said it about weed,, the gen before said it about tv, and before that radio.....

Ninja sucks but let's not fall prey to hysteria

Radio, gaming, music, etc. all have some regulations that enforce some kind of standards. YouTube does not have this. They have it for ads, sure, but they generally let content creators get away with some pretty terrible behavior. And then children watch these content creators. This isn't the same as television and past media and I wish people in this thread would stop pushing that narrative.
 

Barrel Cannon

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,290
Its up to parents to limit these things.
This. It's up to parents to regulate how their kids consume content and do some proper sit downs with them to discuss content especially when they are younger. If they can't do that due to job commitments then they gotta restrict use of electronics in their household and not buh
 
Oct 26, 2017
243
Desert Land
Agreed. The Twitter user isn't blaming Ninja solely for her nephew's behavior. She's saying that watching Ninja exacerbates bad habits this child has learned from his abusive father. You make a really good argument for why that would be the case.



And these streamers want to have their cake and eat it, too. All of the benefits from their platform but none of the responsibility.



Okay? This kid is in a different situation. The Twitter user explained it in her thread. He's already got behavioral issues and the game provides him with some positive bonding experiences. She's decided that trying to take it away from him would cause more harm than good at this point. And in any case, by removing Ninja as an influence in her nephew's life, his behavior improved. So he can still play Fortnite AND control his aggressive outburts.



Things are PG because decades of psychological research have shown that children are easily influenced by what they see and they do not yet have the mental capacity to process the difference between reality and fiction to the extent adults do? I mean, it's not exactly a mystery.

TV and movie regulations take this into account. This is why we have rating systems. They don't try to dumb everything down to make things kid-friendly. They make it so that TV shows and movies (and games) can be clearly labeled so that parents know what to avoid showing their kids. YouTube doesn't have any of that. And Google seems to have no interest in seriously enforcing standards (aside from what they've done with YouTube Kids or whatever) because their algorithm that prioritizes engagement rakes in the case and they don't care about the negative consequences.

Ninja caters to kids. He also sets a bad example. He wants all of the advantage of his position while not dealing with any kind of responsibility he may have to his younger viewers. This person on Twitter did what a good parent (or aunt) does and banned him from watching Ninja. She's concerned about all of the parents who DON'T do this.



Already explained on the page before why this child is playing Fortnite. It wasn't the Twitter user's choice. She's trying to make the best of a bad situation. And she specifically says in a tweet that she does NOT think all streamers are inherently bad.
She explained that this kid is watching content that he should not be watching as the age limit for twitch is 13. He is playing an age restricted game that he is too young for yet for some reason Ninja's bad language is to blame.

Ok
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
Honestly looking back on my childhood I think I spent too much time on the internet/games.

But I think kids these days have MUCH easier access. Kinda frightens me to think how I can raise a kid.

Because to an extent it feels unfair to keep them from this stuff to when its all their friends will be doing too.

The social media influence is crazy. I think people from my generation (Born 92) have gotten more bored with social media. At least in my circles. We recently moved to a new state and one of the first friends we made lives with much younger people (like 18/19) I follow them on twitter and YIKES. Feels like they tweet once every 30 minutes minimum.

Maybe I'm just becoming a boomer idk
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,560
Honestly looking back on my childhood I think I spent too much time on the internet/games.

But I think kids these days have MUCH easier access. Kinda frightens me to think how I can raise a kid.

Because to an extent it feels unfair to keep them from this stuff to when its all their friends will be doing too.

The social media influence is crazy. I think people from my generation (Born 92) have gotten more bored with social media. At least in my circles. We recently moved to a new state and one of the first friends we made lives with much younger people (like 18/19) I follow them on twitter and YIKES. Feels like they tweet once every 30 minutes minimum.

Maybe I'm just becoming a boomer idk

You either die young, or live long enough to see yourself become a boomer
 

yurr

Alt-Account
Banned
Nov 20, 2019
946
The Twitter user further explained her nephew's situation:






Radio, gaming, music, etc. all have some regulations that enforce some kind of standards. YouTube does not have this. They have it for ads, sure, but they generally let content creators get away with some pretty terrible behavior. And then children watch these content creators. This isn't the same as television and past media and I wish people in this thread would stop pushing that narrative.

Are you serious? Games are regulated? Oh you mean the M rating to minors? Doesn't do much Johnny gonna get his grand theft auto from his uncle. And the toxicity with online interactions? Apple/Spotify/pandora Music don't age hate to my knowledge so kids can listen to whatever. Radio is the only thing regulated and I was referring to the fear mongerIng if when the kids popularized some new form of entertainment. To much YouTube sucks for kids we say. Just like too much gaming, music, tv was said to be unhealthy by the generation before us. It's bad, but hardly "frightening".
 

marmalade

Member
Nov 28, 2018
567
It genuinely frightens me how many young children are just absorbing hours of YouTube and twitch.
Yes. The previous model of corporate media inculcated something resembling agreed upon principals and adults were in control operated as moral arbiters. But now you have people bypassing that system and being famous for ??? like Jake Paul; Jake Paul who doesn't know anything about morality becomes that moral authority. Also, I feel like there might be something psychologically instructive about media with a narrative structure vs game streams and YouTube vlogs and endless Instagram stories. I feel like this stuff turns your brain to mush. (Note that corporate media is not faultless: it's inherently conservative, capitalist and facilitates a patriarchal power structure that allows for endless abuse.)

Also, this might be a contrarian position, but: Epic Games isn't faultless here—they created a game with a purposefully designed gameplay loop designed to trigger dopamine reactions and be addictive. It feels immoral to me that gaming companies employ psychologists to make products to exploit people like this.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,549
Ninja's a toxic ass, so I'm not surprised he'd be influencing children in a negative direction. I have no idea why he got popular in the first place.
 

monketron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,841
An entire generation of kids will grow up basically getting raised by streamers. That social tidal wave will hit us in about 20 years. GL guys.
 

RingRang

Alt account banned
Banned
Oct 2, 2019
2,442
It genuinely frightens me how many young children are just absorbing hours of YouTube and twitch.
Is there something uniquely dark and damaging about YouTube and Twitch that I'm missing?

Because this sounds an awful lot like grandparents of the 50's complaining that this newfangled tv was rotting kids brains.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
Is there something uniquely dark and damaging about YouTube and Twitch that I'm missing?

Because this sounds an awful lot like grandparents of the 50's complaining that this newfangled tv was rotting kids brains.

There's almost no oversight when it comes to kids media on YouTube and Twitch. When it comes to mainstream TV there are advertising standards bodies, and in the UK we have an organization called Ofcom that outright handles complaints, and the "watershed" that means explicit content can't be shown until after 9pm.

A lot of it does come down to parental supervision with the internet, admittedly, and the internet being unregulated is one of its greatest strengths, but kids can fall down some pretty dark rabbit holes if they're not careful. Personally I think it's on YouTube and Twitch to come up with smart solutions, and parents to become more informed.
 

RingRang

Alt account banned
Banned
Oct 2, 2019
2,442
There's almost no oversight when it comes to kids media on YouTube and Twitch. When it comes to mainstream TV there are advertising standards bodies, and in the UK we have an organization called Ofcom that outright handles complaints, and the "watershed" that means explicit content can't be shown until after 9pm.

A lot of it does come down to parental supervision with the internet, admittedly, and the internet being unregulated is one of its greatest strengths, but kids can fall down some pretty dark rabbit holes if they're not careful. Personally I think it's on YouTube and Twitch to come up with smart solutions, and parents to become more informed.
But that doesn't seem related to the story that started this thread. Is Ninja engaging in behavior that wouldn't be allowed on television before 9pm?
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,929
Canada
There are tacky fucking Ninja-licensed headbands for sale at Toys R Us. You can't hand-wave away his shitty bevahiour with "oh, kids that age shouldn't be watching him."

We've gone from Ninja Turtles to just Ninja. I wouldn't say that's a step up.
 

Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,929
Are you serious? Games are regulated? Oh you mean the M rating to minors? Doesn't do much Johnny gonna get his grand theft auto from his uncle. And the toxicity with online interactions? Apple/Spotify/pandora Music don't age hate to my knowledge so kids can listen to whatever. Radio is the only thing regulated and I was referring to the fear mongerIng if when the kids popularized some new form of entertainment. To much YouTube sucks for kids we say. Just like too much gaming, music, tv was said to be unhealthy by the generation before us. It's bad, but hardly "frightening".

Dude, that's still regulation. The ESRB ratings were created to give parents an idea of what games are appropriate for their kids. Sure, a lot of parents ignore ratings, but the system is still there. And besides regulation in terms of ratings for content, games also have content filters for quality. Nintendo definitely made sure of that after a slew of low quality games crashed in the US video game market back int he 1980s.

YouTube lacks content regulation and it lacks quality regulation. The only metric that really matters is engagement. And so we get people like PewDiePie and Ninja rising to the top. Google doesn't give a fuck if a ton of kids watch these guys as long as they make money.

Yeah, we limit the kind of media kids consume. And too much gaming, music, TV, etc. was arguably bad for kids. Everything in moderation. But again, music, TV, games have not just content regulation but also quality regulation. You probably think you sound badass, but really you just sound angry and ignorant of the difference between the Internet and older media.
 

Mr_DyZ

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jun 12, 2019
776
Ninja caters to kids. He also sets a bad example. He wants all of the advantage of his position while not dealing with any kind of responsibility he may have to his younger viewers. This person on Twitter did what a good parent (or aunt) does and banned him from watching Ninja. She's concerned about all of the parents who DON'T do this.

See , I don't think Ninja should have any responsibility when it comes to monitoring his attitude (within reason of course). He use to break up his streams into family friendly/adult, but i'm not sure if he does that anymore. Streaming is his job so he should maintain some type of professionalism, but he's his own boss in theory. If he wants to scream cuss words, and go baby-rage when he dies, more power to him.

If parents are against it, then they should restrict viewing habits. I don't want him to be someone he's not because a group of kids wondered into his stream. Getting mad and yelling in a video game doesn't make you a bad person. If kids are young enough to where they don't know right from wrong or that it's a game, then they probably shouldn't be visiting these places in the first place.
 

Mr_DyZ

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jun 12, 2019
776
She explained that this kid is watching content that he should not be watching as the age limit for twitch is 13. He is playing an age restricted game that he is too young for yet for some reason Ninja's bad language is to blame.

Ok

She posted it on Twitter though so according to everyone, she's right by default.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,324
I'm sure there's an interesting Venn diagram of Fortnite Stans, people masquerading that they believe Ninja's "not being angry means you lost twice" is a legitimate perspective, and folks delegitimizing Voidra's concerns.
 

Teh_Lurv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,095
Is there something uniquely dark and damaging about YouTube and Twitch that I'm missing?

Because this sounds an awful lot like grandparents of the 50's complaining that this newfangled tv was rotting kids brains.

Television and mass media prior to YouTube and Twitch have common decency standards. Youtube & Twitch are the wild west by comparison. At least with television, parents could sit their kids down for a children's program and not have to worry the man on the TV is going to start cracking racist jokes out of the blue.
 

Irrotational

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,136
Well... you're about the least rock 'n' roll person I've ever met. Haha. Sorry.

What I'm saying is, reality bites. Your kid thinks they're going to make a YouTube channel and make a million dollars doing the exact same thing as the shows he watches? At least he's aspiring to something, and I see nothing here but teachable moments. Learning experiences. How are you going to achieve your goals? How prepared are you to handle failure? This is all great stuff, IMO. The key is to be engaged with them through whatever it is has their attention. They might not want to hear your counter point now, but they'll understand it when the time comes. We think Ninja and PewDiePie are teaching them the wrong things. My parents though Guns 'n Roses and Mortal Kombat were teaching me the wrong things. But as I say, reality bites. Punk rock didn't do me much good once I left high school. There will come a time when reality trumps the things they think they know about the world. Kids are remarkably pliable, they'll generally course correct and not even know it, unless there's a bigger issue at the root of things not being addressed. My son wanted to make Minecraft videos when he was a tween/early tween, just like PewDiePie. He's in his 20s now and working hard in law school. Just don't be lazy and put the iPad in front of them and disconnect.
Hey - really good advice - appreciate it! I should talk to them about it a bit more, and why I think it's bad etc...then it may or may not hit home as they get older. Seriously. Restored a little bit of my faith in humanity, which normally gets burned out reading too many bad forum posts .

Can you help me with my other life problems!? (Bad combination of boring job, stress, over-active mind, some mid-life crisis, probably a gaming addiction exacerbated by escapism, a lack of sleep, and a weird brain!?)

Kind of half laughing at myself and half plea for help - I'm not sure which! :-)
 

Dizzy Ukulele

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,013
Television and mass media prior to YouTube and Twitch have common decency standards.

Also a watershed which Ninja would never be allowed to broadcast earlier than. One problem with the internet is there can't be a watershed because of its global nature so it really is up to the parents that care to do better.
 

Abominuz

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,550
Netherlands
I have three kids, we have a limit on their tablet and console time. And it is a reward for doing good in school and behaving well. And we only let them play games on the switch like LEGO games and Mario and party games like Just dance. Why is this 7 year old kid playing Fortnite???? It looks cartoony, but the game and the community is to agressive and toxic for little kids.

Edit: My kids are on youtube, but on my account. So i can see what they are watching. Downside is that my preference on Youtube now is all cartoons and toy videos.
 

Raiden

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,922
An entire generation of kids will grow up basically getting raised by streamers. That social tidal wave will hit us in about 20 years. GL guys.
An entire generation grew up with videogames and rap music, that's hitting us now.

Come on guys, are we just going to ignore that that kid is only 7 years old? I mean jezus, that's extremely young.

How about they regulate the content that kid has acces to.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Sorry but this reads like fanfiction.
Yes, these youtubers are toxic, but please show me a 7 year old who reflects and writes down what went wrong after every match of Fortnite lol. And if he's playing with friends, they sure as hell aren't waiting for him to finish his reflecting.

This reads like bogus.
 

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,082
China
Era: "Alt-right youtubers influence children and YouTube should add rules and ban those people!"
Also Era: "Uhm. Youtubers do not influence children! It is the parents responsibility to see what the children are watching!"
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,367
Why did this thread become anti-Ninja and Fortnite? Fortnite is rated T for Teens. It's not the game or the streamer's fault when parent let their children play the game and watch streams.
 

Spence

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,119
Sweden
I think a lot of media creators don't reflect at all over what signals they are sending and what behavior they are teaching as long as they get views, a lot of them uses the excuse that it's "just entertainment" as some sort of blanket statement to avoid responsibility and their viewers defend that stance as well.

It's up to the parents to control and set what kids can and cannot do.

Are you a parent? With modern society and the increased access to media from various outlets it might not be as easy as you think it is. Also since we live in a modern society we share responsibilities for these things to varying degrees.

Era: "Alt-right youtubers influence children and YouTube should add rules and ban those people!"
Also Era: "Uhm. Youtubers do not influence children! It is the parents responsibility to see what the children are watching!"

There's got to be a name for this phenomena, pointing out that different people on a forum say different things? What's the point?
 

McEwan

Member
Jan 30, 2020
97
For what it's worth, my 12 year old has always struggled with keeping his anger in check, especially when he assumes he won't win at a game, even board games. It's taken a good bit of work to get him to appreciate it's not the winning, it's the knowing where you went wrong and trying to beat your own score that matters.
 

RyuCookingSomeRice

Alt account
Banned
Feb 5, 2020
1,009
I think a lot of media creators don't reflect at all over what signals they are sending and what behavior they are teaching as long as they get views, a lot of them uses the excuse that it's "just entertainment" as some sort of blanket statement to avoid responsibility and their viewers defend that stance as well.



Are you a parent? With modern society and the increased access to media from various outlets it might not be as easy as you think it is. Also since we live in a modern society we share responsibilities for these things to varying degrees.



There's got to be a name for this phenomena, pointing out that different people on a forum say different things? What's the point?

I'm actually pretty glad I'm not a parent.

But I wouldn't let them watch Twitch or Youtube for more than an hour a day, before they were like 12 or something.
I wouldn't let them play online only games before they were 12.

We do live in a modern society, I have zero responsibilities towards these children. I am not the one who chose to procreate.

Parents should set limits, and stay with them.
 

NervousXtian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,503
This story sounds full of hyperbole or is just outright bullshit, but yeah don't let little kids watch shit unfiltered on Youtube. It's so easy to blame the content creators than the authority figures in charge of taking care of a darn 7 year old. My kids can't stand Ninja, so that's good.. and they are teens now.. but they had to show me who they were watching on Youtube if they were going to watch it.... for years it was non-stop Minecraft videos.

...but this lady is making it sound like Ninja was the problem and removing him fixed everything... but I don't believe the story as told at all... it sounds like phishing for followers.
 

DigSCCP

Banned
Nov 16, 2017
4,201
A 7 year old kid playing Fortine and watching streamings.
I mean ok Ninja can be whatever he is - I think his content is complete shit but that´s not the point - but what´s the logic behind putting "guilty" on Ninja´s behavior ?
Your kid is exposed to a lot of crazy stuff while playing online, the game is rated for Teen, then again your kid is exposed to a lot of shit in YouTube/Twitch and sundelly Ninja is the one to blame ?
C´mon !
 

Spence

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,119
Sweden
We do live in a modern society, I have zero responsibilities towards these children. I am not the one who chose to procreate.

I'm not saying that you specifically have a responsibility in this specific situation, the parents have a responsibility of course, youtube as a platform and content provider for example also has a responsibility, the content creator has a responsibility, people in general who see things they consider bad has a responsibility to speak up about it if they care enough and so forth..