Other than graphics, are games today doing anything they couldn't do 10 years ago?

ShadowFox08 · May 31, 2020

Significantly larger worlds, more complex AI, better physics, more objects on screen (including npcs), more playable characters onine (100 player battle royale), support for very high framerates, better draw distancing, virtual reality capabilities, ray tracing, dlss andsignificantly faster loading times (SSDs with next generation will be blazing fast) to name a few.

Loading times can be near instant next generation for many games. Imagine massive worlds where you go into areas and not have to wait to load.. Just seemlessly transition to another place, or even fast travel without waiting. It's going to be amazing. Also bein able to suspend several games at once is going to be underrated at first.

DLSS and ray tracing from nvidia are going to be big next generation

NattyBo · May 31, 2020

Crossing over into mainstream culture like never before.

My septuagenarian mother in law bought a switch lite and animal crossing yesterday

Nameless · May 31, 2020

CPU intensive games with tons of interworking systems like Kingdom Deliverance, Pathologic 2, No Man's Sky, and RDR2 would have to be compromised beyond recognition to run on Gen 7 hardware. It's wizardry they run even half decent on these Jaguars CPUs.

Adryuu · May 31, 2020

zoggy said:
Destiny was not 10 years ago, which is what they asked. It came out in the last year of the ps3, you're just being asinine really.

Demons souls was the only game who did that at the time if you read my post you'd see I asked how common these games are now, because they either didn't exist back then or were very novel.

Well I meant the ps3 existed 10 years ago and it was capable of doing Destiny already. The tech was the same as when Destiny launched later.

Also the async stuff was even earlier in lesser hardware as EvilBoris has mentioned (I didn't know about that one).

I was just trying to say that those particular examples don't mean much for the thread's question.

denseWorm · May 31, 2020

I'm actually of the opinion that, as audiovisual, entertainment experiences, games today are the best we've ever had... well, obviously, certain games...

I'll try to justify that... I know that there were more important games, know that they were more groundbreaking games and I know that there were really fun games in the 90s, 00s, and early 10s. I know that a fair chunk of games today are sequels, and that there are only a few big developers with the means to craft these megagames.

But as gaming experiences, I just think we're living in a bit of a golden age. Things like motion capture, huge jumps in the level of graphical fidelity we are able to efficiently extract from our graphics cards, years of experience/failures in game design leading to more polished takes... Take God of War and compare it with earlier titles in the series. Take Red Dead Redemption 2? Warhammer 2. AC Odyssey. I think the exhilarating solid'ness of these titles is a big slice of why people are allowing themselves to get so carried away by the promise of the next generation of consoles.

I accept that there's a chance that I am just a bit stars-in-my-eyes about contemporary games, but I really think that when they're good, they're really good. Gameplay polish born out of years of trial and error, a better understanding on the part of producers for what is actually fun in games and what players want, gorgeous graphics, it all just adds up to experiences that are more fun and, to me, more immersive.

Deleted member 1722 · May 31, 2020

denseWorm said:
I'm actually of the opinion that, as audiovisual, entertainment experiences, games today are the best we've ever had... well, obviously, certain games...

I'll try to justify that... I know that there were more important games, know that they were more groundbreaking games and I know that there were really fun games in the 90s, 00s, and early 10s. I know that a fair chunk of games today are sequels, and that there are only a few big developers with the means to craft these megagames.

But as gaming experiences, I just think we're living in a bit of a golden age. Things like motion capture, huge jumps in the level of graphical fidelity we are able to efficiently extract from our graphics cards, years of experience/failures in game design leading to more polished takes... Take God of War and compare it with earlier titles in the series. Take Red Dead Redemption 2? Warhammer 2. AC Odyssey. I think the exhilarating solid'ness of these titles is a big slice of why people are allowing themselves to get so carried away by the promise of the next generation of consoles.

I accept that there's a chance that I am just a bit stars-in-my-eyes about contemporary games, but I really think that when they're good, they're really good. Gameplay polish born out of years of trial and error, a better understanding on the part of producers for what is actually fun in games and what players want, gorgeous graphics, it all just adds up to experiences that are more fun and, to me, more immersive.

Gimme a HELL YEAHH

Unicorn · May 31, 2020

Early access model and constant updates. Xbox had ridiculous cost barriers just to patch games, where indie games had to be strategic about their patches and updates.

This is a blessing and a curse, though.

inner-G · May 31, 2020

twisted89 said:
Sounds like you've somehow missed the entirety of VR?

I played VR in the 1990s. It was largely the same but with worse graphics

ShutterMunster · May 31, 2020

I've got a little time today...

Carn said:
Oh don't get me wrong, I perfectly understand what the differences are. But still; a lot of those games have become a lot more complex, but I think I enjoyed San Andreas and RDR more than GTA5 and RDR2. Obvious graphical improvements and insane production values aside, I don't consider a lot of these AAA games to be a 'big leap forward' for their respective genres; its just (well made) more of the same thing. I think smaller games like Outer Wilds are a lot more interesting on a conceptual level.

You enjoying past titles more is kind of irrelevant. The improvements in technology have been used for vastly more than pretty graphics and that is indisputable. Just because those improvements don't speak to you doesn't mean they aren't a product of technological progression.

misho8723 said:
I'm not trying to attack you or anything, but what systems does RDR2 have in its game that for example the STALKER games don't have ? They have AI systems and night and day cycles for NPCs, they have behavior AI systems for animals and mutants, they have working faction systems, etc..

Can't speak on STALKER series, it's in my pile of shame. I can't speak to how sophisticated any of those systems are and I don't have any insight into how their budget is allocated. I can only speak to the titles and studios that I've worked on/at.

NoPiece said:
GTA III was 2001, almost 20 years ago. GTA IV was 2008. Red Dead Redemption was 10 years ago in 2010. Do the differences, beyond graphics, between RDR and RDR 2 really stare you in the face? What game system in RDR 2 couldn't have been done in RDR 1?

The level of sophistication you see in the A.I, the varied array of emotional responses you see from various NPCs are a direct byproduct of memory expansion from last gen to current gen. Peds in GTAV really only had two ways they could respond to any action you took and handful of vocal responses. When you rapidly expand that you have a much more active and lifelike world and then you can design new systems around it. This expansion in Ped behavior allowed a more nuanced WANTED system to work at all.

King_Moc · May 31, 2020

EvilBoris said:
Like on the Switch?

The tech in the switch is from, like, 2013 or 14? The 360/PS3 versions of Witcher 3 were cancelled as the couldn't do it.

Beatle · May 31, 2020

bell_hooks said:
We have open worlds everywhere because modern hardware allow for better data streaming.
As far as voice processing goes, this gen started with Kinect...

Since the early 80's there have been content rich expansive open world games
The Ultima series from 1981 through to the 1990's and 2000's is one example

JaxJag · May 31, 2020

zoggy said:
How common were massive online shooters like fortnite destiny pubg etc in 2010?

Or asynchronous multiplayer like death stranding?

OG Xbox had a 50 player FPS called Black Hawk Down. I bought it on launch day, game was a bit rough but impressive for a console. Joint Ops on PC had 100 player servers back in like 2003.

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Deleted member 18161 · May 31, 2020

EvilBoris said:
Like on the Switch?

Except Switch has eight times the memory which is also twice the speed. It's GPU also supports much more modern engines, API's and effects. It's GPU is also at least twice the performance of last gen GPU's when docked.

So no. Not like on Switch.

Silvergun-Blue · May 31, 2020

twisted89 said:
Sounds like you've somehow missed the entirety of VR?

This is exactly why I'm such a fan of it. It was the first time for years I genuinely felt I was experiencing something new.

Cyberclops · May 31, 2020

I feel like Outer Wilds was doing some wild stuff with its perfectly synced solar system running on a repeatable timeline.

It also didn't run well on a base Xbox One despite it not being that graphically impressive.

Bruceleeroy · Jun 1, 2020

For me the gaming experiences that transcended last gen:

1) Astrobot and VR in general
2) Sea of Thieves - I can't think of anything like it previous gen but whether that's cause it wasn't possible I'm not sure. Thinking of games like Crysis I feel like it certainly was possible to achieve the visuals but the online infrastructure was that feasible then?
3) Outer Wilds - A whole solar system with so many unique physics and underlying systems at play. I feel like this wasn't possible last gen

Poimandres · Jun 1, 2020

Carn said:
I don't think so; because to be honest, that doesnt sound like fun. I feel the same about the use of complex AI or things like fully destructable enviroments and those kind of things. I do think there is a lot to be won with procedural content; especially because games will become more and more expensive as the amount of detail that is expected keeps on growing.

Picture a cover based shooter where you really have to keep moving frequently because your cover is getting blown apart. Picture a sandbox shooter where encounters play out significantly differently everytime, increasing replayability significantly (STALKER was great at this). NPC characters that actually react to your actions instead of having half a dozen repeated phrases. This all sounds pretty fun to me!

Grue · Jun 1, 2020

padlock said:
Personally, I think cloud based computing could help provide us with new experiences, such as using speech recognition and synthesis to allow us to simulate conversations with NPCs (think Google Assistant or Alexa). Do you think we'll see something like that in the coming generation?

A little off topic, but I totally think convincing speech synthesis has the potential not only to revolutionise some games, but to speed up their production.

Imagine the immersion where the AI is able to simply come out with something resembling a conversational style, without a voice actor having to read pre-written lines. Imagine the value that has to a developer who can't keep delaying production for more audio recording sessions.

Combined with increased speech recognition (and in some cases, VR), yes, I think that could represent something unique to whichever generation manages to achieve it.

(Would love someone smarter than me like to take a punt at which generation that might be?)

cakefoo · Jun 1, 2020

inner-G said:
I played VR in the 1990s. It was largely the same but with worse graphics

Beat Saber players can slash more notes per second than some 90's VR systems could render frames per second.

Dr Pears · Jun 1, 2020

I don't think Days Gone's massive aggressive hordes are possible 10 years ago.

leder · Jun 1, 2020

Charging for online

Spring-Loaded · Jun 1, 2020

Carn said:
I don't think so; because to be honest, that doesnt sound like fun. I feel the same about the use of complex AI or things like fully destructable enviroments and those kind of things.

I keep seeing people say this, or something to the effect of "people think they want _____, bit it wouldn't work as a game or be fun"

people want improved AI and destructible environments, not "perfect AI that predicts every move you could possibly make which makes the game impossible" or "every single element in a carefully constructed game can be completely destroyed thus breaking all progression/pacing."

Dismissing the possible benefits of those improvements is myopic, and downplays developers' ability to deftly apply improved tech in these areas and come up with new approaches game design where needed And there are existing games where dynamically destroying stuff is fun—better versions of that would be even more fun.

Torpedo Vegas · Jun 1, 2020

twisted89 said:
Sounds like you've somehow missed the entirety of VR?

The Wii, when I think about games like Red Steel, controlled almost exactly like VR games do now. You just didn't wear your TV strapped to your face.

Pottuvoi · Jun 1, 2020

How far would the change be allowed is really the question.
If game is made as top down 2D game, we had quite bit power and lot of the systems would become a lot easier.

We have had quite big games during 8bit times with free roaming, fully destructive 3D maps on games like xcom: apocalypse on Pentium 2 era. (Although big events did made machines struggle quite bit..)

Dr Pears said:
I don't think Days Gone's massive aggressive hordes are possible 10 years ago.

It really depends on simplification of scene, abilities of horde and graphics.
We had really simple hordes on ps2 with 65k units on Ps2. (Basically a 2.5D particles running fully on VU1.)

cakefoo said:
Beat Saber players can slash more notes per second than some 90's VR systems could render frames per second.

Yup, those were horrible VR systems.
Although FPS is really not limit for input devices or game simulations, those can use higher frequency.

Mentalist · Jun 1, 2020

More computing power- more complex AI routines. This was great for immersive sims like Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and Arcane's stuff (Dishonored 2, Prey).

Also, it allows to build games around simulation systems. Monolith's Middle-Earth: Shadow of... games are the poster child of this, since the game launched without the Nemesis system on the last-gen consoles.

Stuff like the upcoming Watch Dogs Legion's ambitious "recruit anyone" system probably wouldn't have worked on old hardware, either.

giapel · Jun 1, 2020

I mean, the fact that there's so many current gen ports to the switch should be indication enough that most games design could be done on older hardware with only graphical sacrifices. And you know what? That's not a criticism of the gaming industry. We are at a point where most games do not push the technological barrier anyway and are content driven. The industry is maturing and that's a good thing

Penny Royal · Jun 1, 2020

wafflebrain said:
Not sure if this really counts for gameplay but smooth transitions from different areas like in NMS (space to planet surface) feels like a boon for a more seamless gameplay experience.

Had that back in the 8-bit era on the Commodore-64 in the game Mercenary 2, and then later on the Amiga in Starglider 2 which had a whole solar system of vistable planets with a couple of cities on them that you could fly surface-space-surface seamlessly.

Pottuvoi · Jun 1, 2020

Kyser73 said:
Had that back in the 8-bit era on the Commodore-64 in the game Mercenary 2, and then later on the Amiga in Starglider 2 which had a whole solar system of vistable planets with a couple of cities on them that you could fly surface-space-surface seamlessly.

And in actual scale in Frontier: Elite 2 on Amiga.

Nessii013 · Jun 1, 2020

If we're speaking in terms of singular mechanics that have never been done before, then my vote is AI Dungeon 2, which uses deep learning to generate a text-based dungeon adventure.

While technically the hardware probably could've handled it, the models 10 years ago weren't as good as they are now, and no one really tried using deep learning for video games much back then other than experimentation.

This type of dynamically generated content opens a lot of doors though. Imagine being able to dynamically generate and infinite number of NPC conversations, along with their voices, emotions, and facial animations...

azeke · Jun 1, 2020

Splatoon gyro controls.

Scruffy8642 · Jun 1, 2020

Nah probably not, you can categorise most changes into bigger or better looking.

Teeth · Jun 1, 2020

Weirdly enough, the only game I can think of with actual proof is Shadow of Mordor. They did PS3/360 versions of that game, hacked out the majority of the pretty graphics and still had to remove the entire Nemesis system to get it running. I guess it was maybe a RAM thing?

Now, maybe with a different team and vastly larger budget than the port house got/was, it may have been possible on last gen, but that's the only actual example I can think of.

azeke said:
Splatoon gyro controls.

Likely could have been done on the Wii or PS3 sixaxis.

Deleted member 49535 · Jun 1, 2020

Cities Skylines allows free placement of roads, building customizations, defining zones with a brush specialized in something and more. I love Simcity 4 but the genre has definitely advanced.

Fifstar · Jun 1, 2020

What about the new flight simulator or star citizen?

Deleted member 51848 · Jun 1, 2020

Fifa is my favourite example of this. Boot up 08 and the game is essentially the same game you're playing today.

lightchris · Jun 1, 2020

Some games do, most don't.

It's always this way and will continue to be with next gen. And that's not a bad thing. It just means that we already have techonology that enables a lot of creative freedom.
That doesn't mean that improvements can't still be made and that some developers long for new technology to make their vision possible.

cakefoo · Jun 1, 2020

Torpedo Vegas said:
The Wii, when I think about games like Red Steel, controlled almost exactly like VR games do now. You just didn't wear your TV strapped to your face.

Wii engages the wrist, and that's about where the similarities to VR come to a screeching halt.

nmkd · Jun 1, 2020

- Nvidia DLSS
- Microsoft Flight Sim 2020 (Cloud Computing)

Ushojax · Jun 1, 2020

Adryuu said:
Well I remember when Mass Effect 3 didn't let you holster your weapon during combat missions because there wasn't enough memory to have that animation ready.

You don't really believe that do you?

Kill3r7 · Jun 1, 2020

zoggy said:
How common were massive online shooters like fortnite destiny pubg etc in 2010?

Or asynchronous multiplayer like death stranding?

Destiny was on last gen consoles. Fortnite runs on just about anything.

nikos · Jun 1, 2020

High and variable refresh rate (G-Sync/FreeSync) changed the game.

PsionBolt · Jun 1, 2020

So to summarize the thread so far, people have brought up:

- Scope / big open worlds (Ultima series, Daggerfall, etc.)
- Motion controls of Switch/VR (not that different from a Wiimote)
- Loot boxes (microtransactions date back to the early 2000s)
- GaaS (not that different from patches and expansion packs)
- Loads of enemies at once (Left 4 Dead, Musou games, Gauntlet arcade)
- Loads of players at once (MAG, PlanetSide, MMOs in general)
- Dreams (game-making games have existed since the 90s)
- Surface-to-space movement (Elite II, Mercenary 2, Starglider 2)
- Procedural world generation (c'mon. Rogue)
- NPC routines, day-night cycles, etc. (Majora's Mask, Oblivion)
- Nebulous "better / more complex AI" stuff, NPC responsivity (Immersive sims, Facade)
- Environmental destructibility (Classic X-COM, Minecraft)
- Improved load times (all cartridge consoles)
- Reaching a broader audience (Wii, mobile, Facebook games)
- A lot of people ignoring the whole point of the thread and talking about graphics anyway

Some might argue that some of the bracketed stuff isn't close enough to qualify as the same thing, and I probably missed a point or two going through the thread, but if you take a step back and look at the question as a whole, I think the gist of things is clear. You have to get pretty darn picky to find examples of non-graphical things in games that couldn't have been (not just "weren't", couldn't have been) done 10 years ago -- or in most areas, 20+.

BigTnaples · Jun 1, 2020

twisted89 said:
Sounds like you've somehow missed the entirety of VR?

came here to say this.

Half-Life Alex, and many others, are the answer to this question.

BigTnaples · Jun 1, 2020

Ushojax said:
You don't really believe that do you?

And you think they removed the animation that was already in the engine because?

Bjones · Jun 1, 2020

Not a good game?!!!

MisterSnrub · Jun 1, 2020

You could now theoretically make a game about shaking bottles full of liquid

laxu · Jun 1, 2020

pswii60 said:
I'm always disappointed with interactivity in games these days.

Like in 90s FPS games I go up to a drinks machine and a can will come out. I go up to a toilet and it will flush. In modern games I go up to things and fuck all happens, it's just scenery. Meh. Give me flushing toilets. Yeah we've regressed. At least Prey had flushing toilets I guess.

I miss this too. Tons of games that disappoint the player by not reacting to what the player is doing in any reasonable way. A lot of these small things are what makes game world feel more alive even if they don't have an actual gameplay function.

I feel old games took the time to implement this kind of stuff to make up for their lack in graphics. Instead they kept state of player's doings and had some scenarios written in case the player goes on a murder spree in a village and so on. I feel that kind of stuff has not been brought back into most open worlds. RDR2 does some tracking but it often feels disconnected and limited to "don't you cause any trouble around here no more, ya hear!".

I hope next gen allows developers to improve on the gameplay rather than just offer fancier visuals with the same template first/3rd person gameplay.

Dirtyshubb · Jun 1, 2020

The thing about this question is that it always seems to come from a place of someone feeling like nothing new is happening, not understanding how much things have actually changed and when pressed for examples of what they mean they are not able to give any examples.

If you look at indie games, they might look like they could run on a NES but that is simply a stylistic choice and the actual things going on behind the scenes would in jow way be possible on old tech.

Same goes for big budget games, technically old gens might have had similar games in that genre but the actual workings of the game and what it's bringing simply wouldn't be possible on older tech.

mogster7777 · Jun 1, 2020

Something like The Witcher 3 would not have been possible a decade ago or on older hardware. Everything would have been scaled back dramatically. Graphics and more power don't necessarily just bring better effects and nicer textures. They bring in other things that aren't as noticeable but make a huge difference without players often even realising. Bigger, more detailed worlds with content inside them that isn't restricted or segmented between smaller areas with more frequent loading in between. Everything is richer and more immersive as a result with less intrusion too.

Horizon Zero Dawn with how fluid the combat mechanics work within an open world that looks as good as that would simply not be possible on last gen or before it. The game would be heavily compromised as a result and not how developers vision it. To a point where it would be nothing like the game that came out. I'm sure the AI would have taken a hit too. Around it all is a beautiful looking game on top.

New God of War may not be open world but again the experience would be nothing like that if it was on older hardware. The fluidity of everything mixed with immersivness actually helps draw you in.
Even indie games have benefitted. Sub Nautica, No Man's Sky or Outer Wilds would have been heavily compromised in terms of scope and open endendess on older hardware. There would be a lot more loading screens, things would have been dialled back a ton to fit into memory etc and in the end the game would be not much like how they turned out.

oni-link · Jun 1, 2020

Crazy to compare games from 2000 to games from 2010, and then compare games from 2010 to 2020

Other than graphics, are games today doing anything they couldn't do 10 years ago?

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