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predict the metascore

  • 100

    Votes: 33 2.1%
  • 95-99

    Votes: 155 9.9%
  • 90-94

    Votes: 863 54.9%
  • 85-89

    Votes: 453 28.8%
  • 80-84

    Votes: 47 3.0%
  • 75-79

    Votes: 8 0.5%
  • under 75

    Votes: 13 0.8%

  • Total voters
    1,572
  • Poll closed .

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,896
This game should be 10/10 game. Can't think if was a "Sony exclusive" the metascore was higher. Yeah, i wrote it.
Tell that to days gone and death stranding, maybe do some research before you blindly accuse anyone of bias?

anyway the game looks great can't wait to play it after I put down Yakuza 0.
 

Altairre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,052
I think a disclaimer to indicate major issues in the retail version is fine but we're way beyond the point where it's reasonable to base the score on it when a major day 1 patch has been announced. I won't blame reviewers that were not in the loop and didn't know but even so they should probably update their review based on said patch. I get that it sucks for people that aren't able to get the patches but this is where we're at and where we've been at for years now.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
To be fair reviewers played the build on the right. The patch landed just a few hours ago and the version on the left is what was printed on physical disks a few months back. The only way anyone would play this is they would insert the physical retail disk into an offline console and play that way. Reviewers got early access digital codes and played the press review version. I knew this video would confuse people so felt that it's important to point out.

Yes, I don't really think someone played the left version for the review, to make that clear, but the right version perfectly shows, to the person I've quoted, that the fps definitely struggled on the X and that version was played and reviewed by everyone.
 

SleepSmasher

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,094
Australia
Welp, I'm already getting stutters on PC. Ori DE has similar issues which were only solved by locking the refresh rate to 60 Hz and using the in-game v-sync. Since Moon said WotW would support higher refresh rates, wasn't expecting this.
Rebooting my PC now to make sure I can replicate it (hopefully not).
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
You know, they could also finish their game completely including all the optimizations, bugs and graphical changes that they did in comparison to the vanilla version before pressing a retail version or sending out digital review builds, you know, like devs did 5-10 years ago where they haven't completely relied on a day one patch.

Crazy thought, I know.

games were being updated at launch 5 years ago. Try 15 years if you want to go down memory lane.
But the industry's changed since then. Like it or not, the internet has significantly changed gaming in the past decade.
 

flyingsaucer

Member
Feb 28, 2020
151
Game reviews aren't a public service. It's a job like anything else, and reviews get the most clicks at the launch of the game.

It isn't the responsibility of a reviewer or outlet to wait until after the game has been released (sacrificing income) just because it *might* not be indicative of the final product. They can only review what they've been sent, and acknowledge that this may be fixed post-launch.

It's not a perfect system, but there's not an easy solution. Shitting on reviewers isn't the way.
I think there is an easy solution... Updating reviews?
 

Delroy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,747
Seattle
For you maybe? I have a lot of friends currently living in student housing, working with home internet that barely works. For them knowledge about this could be a factor in buying a game yes or no. I don't get why you say holding the industry back? It doesn't hold the industry back in the slightest if reviewers (heck reviewers, i would even say it's on the developer/publisher to inform people that a game has performance issues if a day one patch is not installed) inform these people that these issues exist.

"Holding back for no good reason" is a very scary thing to say if you think about it. You're basicly saying that minorities have no reason to be 'pulled along'.

Out of curiosity - how would your friends access this game? Would they be buying a retail disc? Serious question.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
The game tries to encourage you to play on Normal and states its the intended difficulty. I never once felt it was unfair and there's plenty of abilities and Shards (think Hollow Knight's pins) that can really change things up. For example, increasing damage at the expense of damage taken. One or two of the bosses were really difficult, could spend an hour on them but that was purely down to learning attack patterns and changing my loadup and I honestly really enjoyed the challenge there.
That sounds great! I think I'll try it on hard and go down if I find it unfair.
Long boss attempts doesn't sound like a problem to me at all. My possible favourite boss of all time is Nightmare Lord Grimm, and it took me multiple days to take him out.
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,483
It isn't right to dump on reviewers that maybe weren't in the loop on day one patch or felt pressure to hit the date due to their small staff, but it seems to be a reasonable expectation to check and update score if there is a patch available actually before release now that seems to resolve most issues. A game that sounds incredible should be treated fairly in such a case because it helps gaming in general to be accurate.
 

Astraer

Gamer Guides
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
636
That sounds great! I think I'll try it on hard and go down if I find it unfair.
Long boss attempts doesn't sound like a problem to me at all. My possible favourite boss of all time is Nightmare Lord Grimm, and it took me multiple days to take him out.

I think you'll find Hard fun then, like I mention in my review, all bosses have patterns to memorize and honestly, if you're really good at the game (a lot better than me for sure) than it's entirely possible to not even get hit if you learn everything.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,030
I think a disclaimer to indicate major issues in the retail version is fine but we're way beyond the point where it's reasonable to base the score on it when a major day 1 patch has been announced. I won't blame reviewers that were not in the loop and didn't know but even so they should probably update their review based on said patch. I get that it sucks for people that aren't able to get the patches but this is where we're at and where we've been at for years now.
No, I do think it is fair to rat ethe product as delivered and I am quite disappointed that after such a long development time an the last delay, they did not iron out those issues before launch so the physical product is in great shape.
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,062
Melbourne, Australia
I think there is an easy solution... Updating reviews?
That would require replaying enough of the game (if not all of it) to be sure that the issues are all resolved. Again...this is a job. Even big outlets can't dedicate resources to playing and replaying games based on Day 1 patches. Not to mention it's not just a matter of adding a point or two to the score. A big part of how much you enjoy a game is based on your initial experience. A 10/10 game could be a 5/10 experience if you're being hit with technical issues constantly.
 

MickZan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,404
To be fair reviewers played the build on the right. The patch landed just a few hours ago and the version on the left is what was printed on physical disks a few months back. The only way anyone would play this is they would insert the physical retail disk into an offline console and play that way. Reviewers got early access digital codes and played the press review version. I knew this video would confuse people so felt that it's important to point out.

Could you explain to me what the thought proces behind this is? Time? Money? Simply don't care? Like i stated earlier, i have friends who have no easy acces to internet (nothing more than a phone connection anyway). They would end up with a completely different experience than anyone who does.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
Could you explain to me what the thought proces behind this is? Time? Money? Simply don't care? Like i stated earlier, i have friends who have no easy acces to internet (nothing more than a phone connection anyway). They would end up with a completely different experience than anyone who does.
I think you nailed it right on the head. They just didn't care at all.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
That would require replaying enough of the game (if not all of it) to be sure that the issues are all resolved. Again...this is a job. Even big outlets can't dedicate resources to playing and replaying games based on Day 1 patches. Not to mention it's not just a matter of adding a point or two to the score. A big part of how much you enjoy a game is based on your initial experience. A 10/10 game could be a 5/10 experience if you're being hit with technical issues constantly.


Specially not in something like 2020 (where everyone is taking about time and today's standards) where we get like 10 times more game releases than just a few years ago.
 

Prime2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,338
Could you explain to me what the thought proces behind this is? Time? Money? Simply don't care? Like i stated earlier, i have friends who have no easy acces to internet (nothing more than a phone connection anyway). They would end up with a completely different experience than anyone who does.

The discs sometimes get printed months ahead of time which then gives the team time to fix issues left or make changes. I would think there isn't a game released in the last 5 years that didn't get a decent amount of fixes on day one it's just what happens nowadays.
 

marcbret87

Member
Apr 20, 2018
1,367
Game looks great. Got the game purchased on Steam and got Gamepass, though I might wait until HDR is added on PC, this game looks like it could benefit hugely from having that feature.
 

Irrotational

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,160
To be fair reviewers played the build on the right. The patch landed just a few hours ago and the version on the left is what was printed on physical disks a few months back. The only way anyone would play this is they would insert the physical retail disk into an offline console and play that way. Reviewers got early access digital codes and played the press review version. I knew this video would confuse people so felt that it's important to point out.
Can't imagine how hard it is to make a game, let alone one this good (according to reviews), so massive well done to everyone at the studios. I hope you get some rest and quality time with family, friends etc!
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
not at all!
I appreciate all feedback and understand where people are coming from. I want to do my absolute best and deliver the best. I'm definitely going to double check and re-evaluate my review and update as necessary.

I appreciate everyone's comments and take them on board.
Just trying to do my best :)

You can't say fairer than that! Hats off to you! :)
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,364
I didn't get a chance to.
I checked five hours ago and the patch wasn't live.
I'll check again and reassess

Ok that's cool. If I had only read your review I wouldnt have known that a patch was planned to release with the game and that your experience might not represent the experience that players will have when they boot it up.

I know you say you didnt get the patch, but were you even aware that the devs had released a patch that they and others claim had fixed the issues?
 

melodiousmowl

Member
Jan 14, 2018
3,774
CT
Lol i disagree with this really hard. Everything on the disc should be basis for the review. The only time this is viable is when a release is only releasing digitally, because a consumer would have to have internet acces to be able to buy it. If your game ain't ready, delay it. Don't fix it with a day one patch.

Congrats to Moon Studio's for great reviews!
10 years ago, and this is why reviews should mention tech stuff but not weigh it
 

Altairre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,052
No, I do think it is fair to rat ethe product as delivered and I am quite disappointed that after such a long development time an the last delay, they did not iron out those issues before launch so the physical product is in great shape.
That's not how games work anymore. It's not what a large majority of the audience are going to experience. Again, if you want to put a disclaimer in your review then that's fine but if the studio has already contacted you indicating the issues that are going to be resolved in the day 1 patch then writing a full review based on a version that most people are never going to see is not particularly useful.
Could you explain to me what the thought proces behind this is? Time? Money? Simply don't care? Like i stated earlier, i have friends who have no easy acces to internet (nothing more than a phone connection anyway). They would end up with a completely different experience than anyone who does.
Come on now, this is silly. Might as well add lazy to the mix while you're at it.
 

Vico

Member
Jan 3, 2018
6,379
Great scores!

Game was delayed multiple times, it's just a shame they didn't allow it to release a tiny tiny bit later, fixing all the issues, avoiding the situation altogether.

Plus, it seems it still has problems with the day one patch, looking at first player impressions, so I think the ideal scenario is for reviewers to wait before putting up the review. I'm not sure it's going to change much anyway.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
I feel sorry for the team at Moon, having to witness reviews for a product that's not final must be painful. Curious to know what happened.