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Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
I have parents who are landlords.

I know that there are a ton of landlords who are millionaires and are typical landlords.

but there are landlords who pay mortgages and rely on rent to pay them.

so a blanket fuck landlords is kinda funny to me when so many people can't afford homes and need a residence and landlords supply this.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,397
The government should offer a program in which they purchase private housing for a standardised regional price (so they don't end up paying the insane market value). Landlords are then given the chance to keep their property and take the loss from a lack of rent or take what the government are offering.

Seems like a better long term plan than bailing out industries and giving people stimulus cheques.

Of course, this is political poison in the us because you will piss off the left by giving landlord money and you will piss off the right because communism or something.
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
Even beyond that, it's about their function in society, I had nice landlords before, they still made money out the fact that they (or their parents) had enough money to buy place where they didn't have to live in.
they decided to gamble in the american housing system which has been broken for decades and busted out as a result of a pandemic. it's like the false mirage of being rich and cowboy capitalism make people into fucking idiots.

like i said the correct solution is federal-level rent forgiveness and ultimately the landlord has to wait in line to file the claim to the government for pandemic period back rent lol
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
You don't have to be rich to be a landlord, and I say this as a pretty poor schmuck that owns zero houses (including my own; I'm a tenant). A lot of older people inherit properties from their deceased parents and rent them out to help a bit or pay their own rental or current mortgage while still working themselves. Some even have mortgages on both homes because the person they inherited it from didn't pay it off completely before dying (something increasingly common with today's ridiculous 40-year mortgages). After the real estate crashes of the last decade, a lot of people prefer to rent out as a theoretically more future-proofed alternative to selling. Telling people to "just get a job" to offset not getting rent (while they still have to pay for the costs of owning property, repairs, etc.) precisely because other people have lost their jobs due to the job market sucking for everyone is also pretty one sided and contradictory, especially given many of them are 60+ and retired.

It's a very naïve assumption to think that it's only the super wealthy that are the people out there owning multiple properties and being impacted by the lack of rent coming in. I used to write mortgages, so obviously this is all anecdotal, but I'd guess that at least half the people I used to qualify who had rental income were still only barely getting by with it. These aren't people who just go out and buy ten houses because they hit the lotto. A lot of times it's people who inherit their parents' home after they pass and decide to rent it out for some extra cash, or have their "starter home" and then get married and have kids and rather than sell their first home they just rent it out so they can eventually pay off that mortgage.

There are a lot of these people that are leveraged to the eyeballs on these mortgages and all of their tenants just got a free pass on paying the mortgage. Obviously they shouldn't have allowed themselves to get over-leveraged to begin with, but that doesn't make their situations any better or any less deserving of getting assistance. These are people that are now feeling the impact of COVID economy just as much as anyone else in the service sector. (And obviously I'm also not referring to these massive real estate investment companies.)

The result of this all, too, is that these tenants aren't going to be able to pay their back rent so you're going to have a glut of people evicted from their homes by landlords who were forced to keep them in without having any assistance given to their own financial situations to begin with. This whole thing is a downward spiral that didn't need to happen if we just had some sort of leadership in Washington who could have been proactive with these issues as opposed to waiting until now and having it all be reactive.

Here. :)

Pretty much this, but Era is pretty young, ageist, and has little empathy or contact with people outside their age bubble that aren't their own parents.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,280
Saw who OP was and thread title before clicking on it, half expected just an all caps "well, fuck you" post lol

This is some tiny violin shit.
 

Dead Guy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
Saskatchewan, Canada
Lol I really don't get where all this hate for landlords comes from. Like yeah there's obviously gonna be shitty ones like in every system but there's a ton of individual owners just trying to supplement their income too. Maybe I've just been really lucky because I've never had a problem with any of my landlords.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
18,209
I don't quite get the comparison. Buying real estate and renting it out is an investment that could fail-- I agree. Your real estate could lose value. Your costs could exceed your after-expense take home. Your tenants could fail to pay, as is the case here. But at least for now, it seems like eviction moratoriums actually have distorted the market. The investment isn't being allowed to fail and reset, which is a good thing (I don't want to see people evicted). It's continuing and one party-- the landlord-- is carrying all the deadweight loss. I think the solution seems to be to support all people under a certain income level regardless of how they earn their income.

Landlords, if they agree, are getting rental assistance in my state. They get six months of back rent or the tenet gets 5 months of back rent and a month of future rent. The program needs to be funded more but they are getting assistance.

Lol I really don't get where all this hate for landlords comes from. Like yeah there's obviously gonna be shitty ones like in every system but there's a ton of individual owners just trying to supplement their income too. Maybe I've just been really lucky because I've never had a problem with any of my landlords.

From me, it comes from working with a legal aid agency and seeing the terrible shit landlords are doing during a pandemic.
 

whatsinaname

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,106
It's a very naïve assumption to think that it's only the super wealthy that are the people out there owning multiple properties and being impacted by the lack of rent coming in. I used to write mortgages, so obviously this is all anecdotal, but I'd guess that at least half the people I used to qualify who had rental income were still only barely getting by with it. These aren't people who just go out and buy ten houses because they hit the lotto. A lot of times it's people who inherit their parents' home after they pass and decide to rent it out for some extra cash, or have their "starter home" and then get married and have kids and rather than sell their first home they just rent it out so they can eventually pay off that mortgage.

There are a lot of these people that are leveraged to the eyeballs on these mortgages and all of their tenants just got a free pass on paying the mortgage. Obviously they shouldn't have allowed themselves to get over-leveraged to begin with, but that doesn't make their situations any better or any less deserving of getting assistance. These are people that are now feeling the impact of COVID economy just as much as anyone else in the service sector. (And obviously I'm also not referring to these massive real estate investment companies.)

The result of this all, too, is that these tenants aren't going to be able to pay their back rent so you're going to have a glut of people evicted from their homes by landlords who were forced to keep them in without having any assistance given to their own financial situations to begin with. This whole thing is a downward spiral that didn't need to happen if we just had some sort of leadership in Washington who could have been proactive with these issues as opposed to waiting until now and having it all be reactive.



Here. :)

I get all that. But it is at the end of the day, a small business. And on a needs order, I would put them at the bottom of the list of small businesses requiring help. Due to the number of employees and the assets on hand, even if not liquid. I would place the needs of small businesses with customers or even independent contractors way above bailing out over-leveraged landlords - due to the number of people and the economy it usually has an impact on. If they were run as a business with some liquidity on hand - it might even be an opportunity for them with refinancing at much lower rates and maybe pulling out some equity to tide them over.

But we are in a country where trillions are going into helping out big businesses and mega-corps keep the stock market at an all time high, so why not. Maybe just go in the reverse order of who should be helped.


I don't quite get the comparison. Buying real estate and renting it out is an investment that could fail-- I agree. Your real estate could lose value. Your costs could exceed your after-expense take home. Your tenants could fail to pay, as is the case here. But at least for now, it seems like eviction moratoriums actually have distorted the market. The investment isn't being allowed to fail and reset, which is a good thing (I don't want to see people evicted). It's continuing and one party-- the landlord-- is carrying all the deadweight loss. I think the solution seems to be to support all people under a certain income level regardless of how they earn their income.

True. But that is also the flip side of the reduced risk of investing in a business that provides a basic human need. Landlords do get much easier access to credit than other small businesses. Mortgage application have been so streamlined and the rates are so low. SBA loans are what, 5%+?
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,327
Gentrified Brooklyn
I don't quite get the comparison. Buying real estate and renting it out is an investment that could fail-- I agree. Your real estate could lose value. Your costs could exceed your after-expense take home. Your tenants could fail to pay, as is the case here. But at least for now, it seems like eviction moratoriums actually have distorted the market. The investment isn't being allowed to fail and reset, which is a good thing (I don't want to see people evicted). It's continuing and one party-- the landlord-- is carrying all the deadweight loss. I think the solution seems to be to support all people under a certain income level regardless of how they earn their income.

I agree on the later. I even agree to a certain extent that moratoriums don't let the market behave 'naturally'.

That said, if they feel the rent moratorium is the thing stopping them from collecting rent...I dunno if I believe that math. Where is this suppressed renters market waiting to fill in this vacuum? It's not as if after evicting them a new tenant was going to happily come in and replace that revenue during a recession/pandemic.

While I get the broad fair idea that the state dictating them on how they run their business they should get assistance...at the end of the day shit happens. Just because nobody really factored this in their investment bingo doesn't mean that forces have to step in to make sure their investments are covered.
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
You don't have to be rich to be a landlord, and I say this as a pretty poor schmuck that owns zero houses (including my own; I'm a tenant). A lot of older people inherit properties from their deceased parents and rent them out to help a bit or pay their own rental or current mortgage while still working themselves. Some even have mortgages on both homes because the person they inherited it from didn't pay it off completely before dying (something increasingly common with today's ridiculous 40-year mortgages). After the real estate crashes of the last decade, a lot of people prefer to rent out as a theoretically more future-proofed alternative to selling. Telling people to "just get a job" to offset other people losing their own and not being able to pay rent (while they still have to pay for the costs of owning property, repairs, etc) is also pretty contradictory, especially given many of them are 60+ and retired.
if you have investments and can't afford to weather a storm associated with them you have to put your pants on and sell them. sorry. that's american capitalism for you. it's not nice. maybe they shouldn't have toyed around in a broken system in the first place.
 

Maxximo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
636
Well real estate is an investment, investments sometimes fail. Guess they should have been more diversified, sucks for them.
 

TSM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,846
so a blanket fuck landlords is kinda funny to me when so many people can't afford homes and need a residence and landlords supply this.

If you thought about what you said a bit more you'd realize that a big part of the reason so many people can't afford to buy homes is because of people owning homes for the express purpose of making money from people that can't afford to buy a home.
 

Deleted member 279

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,270
Historically landlords are bad. You guys think all these renters protections and rights came out of thin air?
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,358
so a blanket fuck landlords is kinda funny to me when so many people can't afford homes and need a residence and landlords supply this.

See this thread has too many simplifistic rage takes but then you come in and declare that landlords supply housing to the underclass.

Landlords don't supply housing they control it.

This is some jobmakers trickle down nonsense
 

Zombine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,231
You don't buy a fucking property if you can't pay for it out of your own god damn pocket in the event that something like this happens. Like fuck off. These jackasses are literally only worried about their bottom line. Sorry you buy property to buy property and piggyback all of those rents to afford more property. You're a dumbass to think that was a healthy way to live anyways.
 

Dead Guy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
Saskatchewan, Canada
From me, it comes from working with a legal aid agency and seeing the terrible shit landlords are doing during a pandemic.

I'm sure a lot are but I still have sympathy for the individual landlord who only is renting out like 1 apartment or townhouse they have. This pandemic is absolutely shit for everyone but a ton of landlords do rely on that monthly rent coming in to survive. How many months of not being paid are they supposed to let slide before acting on it? 1000 dollars a month they could be losing which is insane.
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
See this thread has too many simplifistic rage takes but then you come in and declare that landlords supply housing to the underclass.

Landlords don't supply housing they control it.

This is some jobmakers trickle down nonsense
ERA is all about liberal social issues until you mention landlords then the landlords and the people who have landlord parents come out for boomer-tier apologism playtime
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,333
i think the solution is that there is federal-level rent forgiveness for the tenant during the pandemic period and the landlord is the one who has to file a claim with the government for the back rent. ted and karen slumlord can be the ones to wait on the phone for 45 minutes lol
The federally-funded program here had the renter apply for assistance with the payment going directly to the landlord.
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,565
Hell yeah. People who cant afford to purchase housing should just be living in the streets.

If it wasn't for landlords immediately buying every house housing would be cheaper overall and people would be able to afford it.

Rent near London is around 900GBP a month. If you get a mortgatge it's half that for a one bedroomed place but because house prices are so high and they sell to landlords/property developers so quickly nobody can get onto the market to begin with.
 

Septy

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 29, 2017
4,091
United States
You don't buy a fucking property if you can't pay for it out of your own god damn pocket in the event that something like this happens. Like fuck off. These jackasses are literally only worried about their bottom line. Sorry you buy property to buy property and piggyback all of those rents to afford more property. You're a dumbass to think that was a healthy way to live anyways.
Do you pay for your cars or house in full??
 

mattiewheels

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,111
It's continuing and one party-- the landlord-- is carrying all the deadweight loss. I think the solution seems to be to support all people under a certain income level regardless of how they earn their income.
Isn't it that they're carrying the same loss no matter what's done for the tenants? If the money's not there then it's just not there, then landlords will not get paid in any situation. I agree that a combination of monthly stimulus checks or mortgage pauses should have happened, but I also realize that this is the risk involved with renting investments and income is never guaranteed.
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
The federally-funded program here had the renter apply for assistance with the payment going directly to the landlord.
that's whack. the renter should just have the debt forgiven under protection of federal law and if the landlord needs the money so bad they can file a claim with the government
 

DBT85

Resident Thread Mechanic
Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,414
Fuck landlords. They should just sell up now. I'm sure the person able to buy them right now won't build a car park on the site instead.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
18,209
I'm sure a lot are but I still have sympathy for the individual landlord who only is renting out like 1 apartment or townhouse they have. This pandemic is absolutely shit for everyone but a ton of landlords do rely on that monthly rent coming in to survive. How many months of not being paid are they supposed to let slide before acting on it? 1000 dollars a month they could be losing which is insane.

As long as it takes. For many of them, it's an investment like any other. Also, my anecdote includes individual landlords refusing to take payment to kick people out.

Anything can be great with money behind it. It wouldn't have money behind it thou

Thanks to landlords and lobbyists, yes. But it should.
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,333
if you have investments and can't afford to weather a storm associated with them you have to put your pants on and sell them. sorry. that's american capitalism for you. it's not nice. maybe they shouldn't have toyed around in a broken system in the first place.
You realize what you're advocating for would result in just the mega-rich and corporations owning the rental properties, right?
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
You realize what you're advocating for would result in just the mega-rich and corporations owning the rental properties, right?
if the government guaranteed housing as a right then there would be no problem, not dissimilar to how the mega-rich and corps control health care because it is not a right. if you decide to profiteer in these systems that should be human rights i have no sympathy for you.
 

Mr.Flufferson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
214
The people who think all landlords are rich should read Evicted by Mathew Desmond. Maybe landlords renting out expensive building in rich areas will be super wealthy. But people who are renting out in poor neighborhoods often struggle to maintain and keep their buildings up to code, especially when their tenets don't pay rent.
 

Deleted member 46493

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
5,231
I have no sympathy for NYC landlords. Anyone that has lived here and isn't wealthy knows how mediocre to outright poor even decent buildings can be due to cheap landlords.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
they decided to gamble in the american housing system which has been broken for decades and busted out as a result of a pandemic. it's like the false mirage of being rich and cowboy capitalism make people into fucking idiots.

like i said the correct solution is federal-level rent forgiveness and ultimately the landlord has to wait in line to file the claim to the government for pandemic period back rent lol
I would rather the banks just not get paid mortgage than the government pay the mortgage for landlord, but yeah, I generally agree.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,377
New York
You realize what you're advocating for would result in just the mega-rich and corporations owning the rental properties, right?

Folks don't know. That's exactly what's happening. Because a large firm will gladly buy up those properties and hike rents up even further.

The response isn't that surprising when a sizeable portion of users on era think ppl making 100k (ignoring all context) are 'rich' lol

Facts.
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,333
if the government guaranteed housing as a right then there would be no problem, not dissimilar to how the mega-rich and corps control health care because it is not a right.
Never gonna happen in any foreseeable timeline. People want the freedom to have options for where they live, not be forced into government housing.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
22,187
You don't buy a fucking property if you can't pay for it out of your own god damn pocket in the event that something like this happens. Like fuck off. These jackasses are literally only worried about their bottom line. Sorry you buy property to buy property and piggyback all of those rents to afford more property. You're a dumbass to think that was a healthy way to live anyways.
Actually... You do. Especially these days. Rent is really high in some places to the point where it is actually smarter to just buy a place and pay the mortgage as it is the same or less than paying rent. Like, in my area a 1 bedroom is 1500cad, but if you somehow put 20% on a 420k place, your mortgage is gonna be about 1400 depending on the interest rate (around 1.6 ATM). Can you lose your job? Yes. Can it theoretically backfire? Yes. But is it better than just tossing money to rent? Yes.

Even then, yes, they are worried about their bottom line. Everyone is. That is the system in place basically everywhere. You diversify your investments in hopes you can actually retire. Governments won't take care of you, you have to, so you have to claw and bite for every dollar. Everyone else is because that is all there is. It is why loads of people are now jumping into crypto and the stock market because they need to make money to survive long term. Until there is a top down solution to quality of life after retirement then it isn't going to change. Just doing the math on living even just mildly comfortable is bonkers.

Like, you gotta do what you gotta do.
 

Rackham

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,532
Owning property doesn't make you rich OP. Land lords are under worse pressure than tenants. There is no moratorium on mortgage or utilities (that some landlords offer). I don't think we should be blanketing all land owners as bad people
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
Never gonna happen in any foreseeable timeline. People want the freedom to have options for where they live, not be forced into government housing.
lol yeah ok you're going to be 'forced' into a government house just like you'll be 'forced' to change your doctor if health care is guaranteed as a right

nice ronald reagan tier mental gymnastics there dutch
 

Dead Guy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
Saskatchewan, Canada
As long as it takes. For many of them, it's an investment like any other. Also, my anecdote includes individual landlords refusing to take payment to kick people out.

Refusing to take payment is ridiculous I agree with you there. But then they're supposed to just let someone sit in there for months without paying thereby completing ignoring their part of the contract that they signed? Insanity. How is that fair?

See the problem here isn't landlords, it's the completely abysmal social security net that exists in the states. I'm Canadian and have been unemployed since October but I'm receiving close to 2000 a month from Unemployment Insurance. I'm able to pay my rent, utilities and everything else without having to worry. Everyone wins.

Hating landlords for wanting to collect rent is just a symptom of a much larger problem.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,634
State government should be issuing landlords tax credits and/or mortgage protection for any individuals that have received extended eviction protection.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
18,209
Owning property doesn't make you rich OP. Land lords are under worse pressure than tenants. There is no moratorium on mortgage or utilities (that some landlords offer). I don't think we should be blanketing all land owners as bad people

Government sponsored and federally backed mortgages do have a moratorium. I know not everyone has a federally backed mortgage but there is one.

Refusing to take payment is ridiculous I agree with you there. But then they're supposed to just let someone sit in there for months without paying thereby completing ignoring their part of the contract that they signed? Insanity. How is that fair?

See the problem here isn't landlords, it's the completely abysmal social security net that exists in the states. I'm Canadian and have been unemployed since October but I'm receiving close to 2000 a month from Unemployment Insurance. I'm able to pay my rent, utilities and everything else without having to worry. Everyone wins.

Hating landlords for wanting to collect rent is just a symptom of a much larger problem.

They are only refusing to take payment to kick people out. It seems so they can increase rent. Now, I don't know why many of them did this but we knew why some of them did. There's a program where the landlord and tenet can agree to no eviction proceedings for 60 days then they can get 6 months of back rent. They are ways for them to get money.

I agree it's a symptom of a much larger problem. The problem is that housing isn't guaranteed as a human right.