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shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,339
My 7 year old is already practically in mental hell at home trying to learn remotely since last March (seriously, he'll get into tears sometimes with my wife trying to teach because there's so much distraction with the other two toddlers), there's just no way we can keep that up over the summer too. We're already counting down the days to end of this school year.
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,328
America
Free Summer school should absolutely be a thing for the next several years to try and help catch up the poor kids who got fucked harder than most by Corona. I would be devastated if Covid stole 2 of my teenage years, much less 2 of my critically formative kindergarten or grade school years. And I was a privileged kid, with two loving parents with high school and college diplomas, as well as a stable household. With books. And Disney movies. And almost no deathly violence.

Can you image what this would be like for kids whose sole respite from a bad home situation was school? Is anyone surprised depression rates are up? With all of what it entails. America should pay all teachers who volunteer at least double pay. Triple until they've had their two vaccine shots and/or herd immunity is achieved. Most teachers are woefully underpaid to begin with so this action would only balance the scale a bit. It should be a no brainer...right?

Except the GOP is not about helping poor children achieve their maximum potential; it's about giving a leg up to the rich kids like Donald Joke Trump and others.

America has 50 GOP senators. Their children will be fine. The democrats will try and fail to get any buy-in because when it comes to poor children, their GOP's guiding philosophy on children ages 0 and up can best be summed as:

kY3bOlr.jpg
 
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Steven

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,173
Ayo, fuck summer school. School is already enough of a fucking capitalism-indoctrination machine that damn, it'd be nice for kids to get time off without having to think about that shit.

Of course, I'm not a parent, that's just my selfish self talking about how ridiculous the school system was looking back on it as someone who now hates all things corporate lmao
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
Teacher burnout is just as real as student burnout this year.

That being said, growing up my cousins were in some weird school district that had something like 9 weeks on, 3 weeks off for the entire year. It worked out to them having just as much time off each year, but it was spread throughout the entire year. I always thought that was an excellent schedule, and wouldn't mind seeing districts transition to that. As a teacher, I also think it would help a lot with combating the summer slide and as a student (growing up) I'd always get bored near the end of summer vacation anyway. I'd be all about breaking up summer vacation into chunks throughout the year.

Forgive me for being ignorant but do teachers not get paid during summer breaks? How the hell do they survive? Teachers are already underpaid as is.

Nope. At the beginning of the school year we can choose to have our checks spread out over 9 months or 12 months. We're paid for our contract months and that's it.

You'd be surprised at the amount of teachers that take up a summer job.

www.cnn.com

Paid summer breaks and other common myths about teachers - CNN

As teachers in several states across the United States protest for higher pay and more funding for public education, lawmakers and onlookers are debating whether teachers deserve more money.
 

Kyrios

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,636
I agree with the idea.

I don't expect it to be very popular even though I think it is the right thing to do.

Yup, agreed.

But pay the teachers though and with something extra if possible (I know that's probably a negative % chance of that happening though). Teachers are burnt out as much as the students if not more. One of my close friends said she would just sit there and cry some days just for being overwhelmed with everything.

Isn't it a choice for the teacher? They aren't really getting paid for the summer, but they can choose to spread their annual pay to stretch the year instead of only getting (larger) checks during the school year?

Yeah at least in NJ it is. You can have it to where you get it stretched out for the whole year with smaller paychecks or opt for bigger paychecks but only get paid during school months.
 
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Weebos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,060
Isn't it a choice for the teacher? They aren't really getting paid for the summer, but they can choose to spread their annual pay to stretch the year instead of only getting (larger) checks during the school year?
This is correct, at least in my state. My partner has the option to spread her paycheck out to cover the summer months or to just get paid during the school year.
 

SolidSnakeBoy

Member
May 21, 2018
7,344
Why not just make it such that kids can retake the year? So long as it's optional what the problem? I doubt most kids give a shit so long as they have their buddies doing the same. Besides everyone being a year older when they go to college what is the problem?
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,410
I think the idea has a lot of merit and probably the best chance to succeed right now assuming the teachers union plays ball.


Why not just make it such that kids can retake the year? So long as it's optional what the problem? I doubt most kids give a shit so long as they have their buddies doing the same. Besides everyone being a year older when they go to college what is the problem?

Capacity. Unless you think redoing another year of remote schooling will solve the problem.
 

Goddo Hando

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,719
Chicago
This is correct, at least in my state. My partner has the option to spread her paycheck out to cover the summer months or to just get paid during the school year.

my wife is a public school teacher and she doesn't get paid over the summer. She draws a nice salary but we have to be really disciplined, as she has coworkers of hers who see that paycheck and treat it like it's all year around and tend to get in trouble
 

Weebos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,060
I think the idea has a lot of merit and probably the best chance to succeed right now assuming the teachers union plays ball.
That is definitely the biggest roadblock for this idea. I doubt unions will come to the table unless it is opt-in (for teachers) and for additional pay, at minimum.
 
Nov 5, 2017
4,899
When the NYCDOE took away Spring Break last year teachers were not compensated last year and the unions hands were tied. I doubt they would be able to pay a full wage for all teachers this summer due to budgets just looking from a School Building Leadership perspective.

Also there's the issue of teacher and student morale.

Not true. We were compensated. We got four extra sick days added to our bank! For many, they were fine with that, which baffled the fuck out of me.
 

tmarg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,694
Kalamazoo
Ideally we should be using this as an opportunity to get rid of summer vacation entirely, it was problematic even before the pandemic. Would be a great way to gradually catch them back up, instead of trying to find a quick fix.
 

DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
My kids fell behind so much from March to last June. Thankfully in Canada they opened skills and it's been relatively safe (zero issues with either of my kids and only a few covid cases were ever brought into the school with no spread).

Can't imagine them doing online school for an entire year. There will be some serious dsvelopmental issues for some of these kids
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,498
So more virtual classes during the summer? No, I don't want that for my daughter. The virtual mode is already stressful and she deserves a break.
 

Obi Wan Jabroni

alt account
Banned
Dec 14, 2020
1,678
The issue isn't just compensation for teachers, it's the fact that many teachers have also been ground down by this distance learning process and need and expect their summer off. There's a mental health component to teaching that only people who are constantly dealing with 100-150 kids every day can fully grasp. And since there's no legal way to compel teachers to extend the year this isn't going to happen. You will see summer programs in most school districts and the federal and state government should offer copious funds to expand that as far as it will go but plenty of teachers will rightfully be ready for an extended break come June.

That said, the article does mention the problem of summer break and I am an advocate of year round school. Every teacher I've ever known who has done it loves it and the kids definitely get more out of it as well.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,655
It's a tough call, as a parent I know my kids are behind but at the same time they are stressed and deserve the break. It would only be fruitful if it was in person and I don't think we will even be there yet, not even ten percent of my state is vaccinated right now.
 
Jul 18, 2018
5,860
My GF is a teacher and she also have noticed her students falling behind. Luckily her high school set up tutoring for teachers outside classroom hours and it pays well, so she took up that offer and is assisting some of her and other teachers students. The shitty thing is that during COVID, the school went lax on assignments, teaching, etc, so even kids doing really poor were going to pass. Which i get because of the pandemic, however the school never really set up services to aid the students that were doing bad, or didn't properly have concrete plans outside of in class tution.

However her district is going to open up the school beginning of March, hybrid teaching. That should definitely help some students to transition back better and offer some guidance they couldn't get from online teaching. I know she would definitely take up the offer to teach summers if they gave her extra pay, she's itching to go back to the classroom
 

FeliciaFelix

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,778
English is my second language and i got the bulk of it in summer school during elementary school years. I think mom was working. Stopped around 6th grade but got sent to church camps instead, where I learned enough to become an atheist. Very productive childhood, overall!
 

spookyduzt

Drive-In Mutant
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,849
Good luck finding the already overworked exhausted teachers who will gladly sign up for this, cause it's a flat no from me.
 
Nov 5, 2017
4,899
Summer school would definitely be a good idea. However, it depends on the administration of the school if they want that to fly.

Last year, I had two fifth grade Math classes. Everything went remote in March. During that time, three kids from each class (six total) either stopped showing up altogether or showed up sporadically, doing the bare minimum -- neither of which showing a grasp on the concepts. I was very hands on during this remote time. I would literally sit in front of my computer screen from 8-2:20, waiting for my students to post something so I could immediately comment on it. This lack of work from these six students went on until June and I felt summer school would definitely help them, especially since they were moving into middle school, brushing up on the material. One parent even agreed with me and was all for it.

Brought it up to my supervisor. The response I got back is still etched into my brain -- "we feel that the students are too mentally drained from what's going on that summer school wouldn't benefit them." I was shocked at such a response, however, not surprised. Even during a normal school year, my administration is super against summer school, as to uphold our reputation that shows our students are taught so well, they don't need summer school when that's obviously not the case in many situations, especially last year.
 

Obi Wan Jabroni

alt account
Banned
Dec 14, 2020
1,678
That is definitely the biggest roadblock for this idea. I doubt unions will come to the table unless it is opt-in (for teachers) and for additional pay, at minimum.

Well, additional pay is a given. You can't force teachers to work for free, obviously. But you're correct that the unions won't go for this because they know how frayed teachers are and it's their job to protect them.

One of the things many people don't seem to realize is that we were already seeing a pretty large exodus from the profession even before the pandemic. I could see a ton of teachers resigning and there are already shortages in places like California where I reside. There's this misnomer that distance learning is easier on teachers than physical teaching which is simply untrue. Many districts have placed so many extra responsibilities and procedures on teachers that they are overwhelmed, coupled with the fact that many of our older teachers were not prepared to implement this level of technology into their lesson plans.
 

Obi Wan Jabroni

alt account
Banned
Dec 14, 2020
1,678
It's a tough call, as a parent I know my kids are behind but at the same time they are stressed and deserve the break. It would only be fruitful if it was in person and I don't think we will even be there yet, not even ten percent of my state is vaccinated right now.

I think we have arrived at one of the most difficult moments of the pandemic because within the next few months, we should have most people vaccinated, including teachers and kids. But it's been a long road fraught with so much Trumpian bullshit that people are looking for more immediate relief, even when some of the solutions aren't all that fantastic.

This process - as you mention - has been brutal on the kids. I'm not sure pushing them harder is going to yield dividends at this point. Best case scenario is to offer optional summer enrichment and give districts the funds to lure at least some teachers into doing it. But I think forcing the issue is a waste of resources and might do more harm than good.
 

Whitemex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,447
Chicago
Yes. my 5 yr old is having trouble retaining a lot things she's learning and its hard for her to focus with so many distractions around the house. i fear she and her classmates are going to be underprepared for the 1st grade.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,137
Seattle
Have summer school for the children that need it. Allow teachers the ability to choose to work Summer school if they choose to. Continue free lunches etc through the summer for families that need it as well.

Make it voluntary for everyone
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,137
Seattle
I mean, they should fight to be compensated for it. If you were told you had to work 20% more hours this year you'd want more money too.

I think if you offered to pay teachers more, my guess is some will stay say 'no deal' many teachers need summer to recharge/recertify/take additional learning requirements etc.

I know my wife would say jump off a cliff if they asked her to teach over the summer.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,888
Yes. my 5 yr old is having trouble retaining a lot things she's learning and its hard for her to focus with so many distractions around the house. i fear she and her classmates are going to be underprepared for the 1st grade.
This is incredibly difficult for younger children.

My kids were 9 and they struggled for over a month to learn this way.

It is also very hard for me as an adult to pay attention to televideo stuff. The sound sucks and its like the worst tv show ever.

Hopefully they figure out a way to help the kids so they don't get left behind.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,137
Seattle
Yes. my 5 yr old is having trouble retaining a lot things she's learning and its hard for her to focus with so many distractions around the house. i fear she and her classmates are going to be underprepared for the 1st grade.


Our daughter is 5..but she has a late birthday (Her birthday was at the end of august..so she would always be the youngest in her class). We decided to hold her back, and now looking back on it...her starting K during the pandemic year would have been a disaster and this was the best decision for her.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
Stress students and teachers further? Nope. The economy won't be back by then anyways. As it is, the students are dropping off because communities don't have enough support. The problem can't be the solution. Summer enrichment with big funding for local communities is the way to go, get community re-established and NOT left behind, while preparing for the next school year.

I know it's frustrating now, but students can catch up. When I was elementary age in the '70s, they didn't even rush to get students to read. My wife went to a school that didn't teach how to read until the second grade. But by the end of third grade everyone was reading and doing their times tables.
 

Book One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,819
my kids have been in person school since late October. After the hellish year they had, and then grinding through what has been a heavily altered in person experience, and doing it with limited social experiences with their friends and family, I kind of think that having nothing normal for a year + is pretty damaging.

Plus we've had a hurricane evacuation and now a winter storm that had them without power and water for days.

Taking away their summer chance to recharge and regroup seems particularly cruel.
 

TalonJH

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,870
Louisville, KY
It's that or hold ever student back this year and that won't happen. People won't want to do Summer school either but I feel like it's easier to pull off. There really are no good options.
 

Synohan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,961
It would be impossible. You would have to offer a large raise to teachers, and even if you could do that, it would still have severe issues for the children. Online classes and all the issues that come with it from learning or general technical issues are stressful and come in droves. Kinds are going to need the break.

No school district was prepared, but some had a small edge. For example, my school district closed sometime in March of 2020. We had a big advantage compared to most schools in the area. Over the past 5 years, we've been giving Chromebooks to every single student in the district to keep. We also gave MiFi's to every single student so that they are able to be in classes regardless if they have an internet provider or not. Despite this edge, we were unable to open schools until September. The reason being that Teachers had to goo through extensive training on how to use Zoom, Google Meets, how to see the screens of students, control who enters rooms, etc. It didnt help that the Technology department is understaffed and had to work with some impossible demands. It still ended up being a disaster in September, with a lot of emotional teachers, Technology workers and Students. There is no way you'd be able to get anyone to even think about the possibility of returning in Summer without an hefty vacation beforehand.

May not be the best idea, but I think a start would be offering every student the possibility of attending an extra half a year of School. Their placement being based on their results in the Maps Test. Summer is not enough time, since countless schools closed as early as the first week of March. Many schools in Northeastern USA end classes in late June. 2 Months isn't enough to repair that damage.
 

teruterubozu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,877
This will affect teacher prep for the following school year. It will cause a domino effect of classes being even more behind. This is built on the ridiculous notion that teachers are idle during the summer.
 

gaugebozo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,832
So doing summer school when the teaching curriculum itself is broken is not going to fix anything
This exactly. I see this from the other side as I work for a company who has remote education tools. They help, but there is only so much they can do for younger kids especially. Instead of trying to fix it and go back to normal next fall, we need to find ways to support this generation going forward. The system was absolutely not built to function how it's functioning. Everybody is already burned out, canceling summer will just make it worse.
 
Jan 29, 2018
9,390
I think if you offered to pay teachers more, my guess is some will stay say 'no deal' many teachers need summer to recharge/recertify/take additional learning requirements etc.

I know my wife would say jump off a cliff if they asked her to teach over the summer.

Oh definitely, my wife is the same. This year has been especially punishing for her.

Teaches are paid annual salaries are they not? Are you arguing that because they typically get Summers off, they deserve a pay increase?

That annual salary is in exchange for a certain number of teaching hours. If you were told you had to work the equivalent of 6-8 more weeks next year wouldn't you expect additional compensation? The union contract in my wife's district actually has how many hours of instruction are in a school year. Beyond that the district can't force them to work longer without additional pay.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,410
That is definitely the biggest roadblock for this idea. I doubt unions will come to the table unless it is opt-in (for teachers) and for additional pay, at minimum.

Agreed and frankly this is something the federal government should help states with by providing the funding.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,106
I think it's a good idea and would be amazing to find a way to make it happen to get these kids where they need to be. We should throw everything at it.

That said, it's going to be fucking rough to actually do. Teachers aren't mindless automatons nor have they gotten rest this entire time either. They have kids at home just like the rest of us. Moving online or partially online involved a fuckton more work for many of them at no extra pay. Things will still likely be dangerous, though not compared to now obviously. I don't know that I could blame them for not wanting to do even more unless there was a substantial pay increase coupled with it and we all know how people in this country feel about taxes and paying teachers.

I think a lot of people (not pointing fingers here at all, just in general) have this idea that oh the teachers are working less or doing less because it's online and in my experience watching my wife go through it that's just not true at all. She's a college professor so I know it's a bit different but I can't imagine middle school teachers are having things any easier. My wife already had some experience with online classes and technology and many of these teachers didn't.

My 7 year old is already practically in mental hell at home trying to learn remotely since last March (seriously, he'll get into tears sometimes with my wife trying to teach because there's so much distraction with the other two toddlers), there's just no way we can keep that up over the summer too. We're already counting down the days to end of this school year.

Yeah there's also this too. In addition to teachers being exhausted children are too! They're falling behind and not getting what they need but that doesn't mean they had it easy and can just keep going as though nothing is wrong.
 

CesareNorrez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,521
This is a long term issue. We can't hope that we ever get back to a reset of this lost year. It's not going to happen for this generation. Throwing money at it and "adding" more time to this school year can only do so much. There needs to be more long term thinking focused on the learning gaps of students, how and why they exist, and curriculum that takes that into account for years into the future. The answer is intimidatingly complex. And it has to be planned by adults that are also burnt out and at wit's end.
 

Znazzy

Member
Aug 27, 2018
1,241
As an educator, it's not a one-size-fits-all situation. There are students who are thriving in this situation, and you have students that are completely struggling. Districts need to offer programs to catch students up that have fallen behind, but teachers absolutely need to be compensated for it. I doubt many districts have the funds to pay educators their daily rate throughout the summer unless they get a ton of federal/state money to do so.

It needs to absolutely be voluntary for the teachers who would like to teach, and the students who would like to join. This is a global issue, and public educators as well as post-secondary professors are well aware of this. More refreshers will need to be given at the beginning of the school years to ensure students aren't regressing, and that's what benchmark data is used for.
 

rac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,117
sure take the hardest most stressful year for students and teachers then make them do it over the summer too

sounds good
 

mute

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,071
I'm happy there are year-round schools here my kids can go to. In person or remote has flip flopped throughout the year but the calendar hasn't changed.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
With regard to education, it might make sense. From the standpoint of a school kid, I would be so pissed off. Kids need the break.