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[OPEN SPOILERS] GAME OF THRONES S8 |*FULL LEAK DISCUSSION*| IT IS KNOWN
- Thread starter Deleted member 2802
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If you watch the inside the episode. The context is that Cersei and euron have been preparing for the dragons ever since they went north, and that Daenarys has been preoccupied fighting the night king. They dont mean that she literally forgot about the iron fleet existing.
Those scorpions are far more advanced than the one Bronn shot.
Now that obviously doesnt excuse eurons stealth ships.
Those scorpions are far more advanced than the one Bronn shot.
Now that obviously doesnt excuse eurons stealth ships.
I don't know about that.
But I heard the Starks are very upset about something so that would fit.
One of the repeated mantras in Westeros is
"One God, One King, One Realm!"
God-King Brandon Stark the ReBuilder
Lol, that's what I was thinking. I wonder if the shows portrayl of Dany will blowback if viewers are mostly behind her and folks start hating on Jon for killing her.
"the ink is already dry"
so the only things that could happen are things that already have, just it being bran behind the cause (like with Hodor).
Jon taking the black after killing Dany makes sense. Tormund, Ghost and the wildings are at Castle Black. Tormund also said that's where Jon belongs.
Yeah I agree. The guy has been in non stop major battles for years now. I think by the end of all this he just wants to be away from it all.
He will have the 2 people he loved both dying in his arms, eveyone around him will "play the game of thrones" with him. He wants none of it and will just fuck off to the Night's Watch. His home.
How many seasons did you want? 10?
I'd love to have interesting discussion with people who are enjoying this season but all they ever post is "That was great!" "Why do people who hate the show still watch it?!" There is never any rebuttal to the actual criticism or solid reasoning given why the season ISN'T bad, so yeah makes sense why they aren't much a part of the current discussion.
Luckily they have real dragons in Europe for Dany to pet
The showrunners have been too busy with "who wins the throne!" hype and thinking up the COOLEST and most BADASS war scenes to present the anti-war message needed to make this particular story work the way they intend it to. They've even managed to make any dialogue related to peace or non-violence seem like something only imbeciles and incompetent advisors think about. Not just from Tyrion the last few seasons with his failures, but also when they cut the Broken Man speech in season 6 in favor of less poignant and memorable dialogue between The Hound and Ray. Everything Ray said about anti-violence was undercut, and neatly refuted by the Hound immediately going back to violence at the end of the episode, thus "winning" the argument about the right way to cure the disease of violence.
The fun adventures of badass Arya murdering people for revenge and becoming a hero for it only adds to the thesis the show posits every week - violence is the answer. Depravity is cathartic, see Sansa feeding Ramsay to his dogs and how orgasmic it was for her. It solves the hardest problems and feels good and ultimately makes you a badass. So do that when faced with a problem.
There are no compelling counter arguments, no clever characters thinking outside of that box (at least after Margaery was unceremoniously killed off). Every character left just resorts to violence, even if the violence fails to accomplish an intended goal and or doesn't mesh with their character motivations, see Ellaria, who gets justice for Oberyn by murdering his family and coming out of it as an anti-hero that joins the "good side" of the war. And see Theon, who regains his status with the Iron Born not by showing leadership or being willing to keep getting up from his beating despite a credible threat of death (because what is dead may never die ) but by getting kicked in the balls, grinning from the lack of pain, and beating a man half to death like a badass. No problem that good ole violence can't solve.
So when it comes to this "problem" of Dany not wanting to hurt innocents, it doesn't really resonate as a real problem for a show that has made heroes and winners out of the most violent and shunned, shamed, or brutally murdered anyone not jumping at the opportunity to embrace the most violent interpretation of their house words . The show has made it easy for viewers to just say burn those motherfuckers and take the castle you idiot, because they have never really been given an anti-war theme that isn't immediately ridiculed as being stupid, (see Hound and Arya in the Riverlands).
With this particular dilemma, they've told us in the script that the smallfolk matter, but when it came to actually show us why, they decided it was either too boring or not essential for the story. So they skipped exploring the war-torn country parts of the story and decided against showing peasants starving and struggling to feed their babies during Winter after the food from the reach was destroyed by Dany's dragons, or what remained of the religious folks after their church was blown to smithereens. They decided against showing us their suffering and misery under Cersei's reign, or how war has only made everything worse. That harsh reality that shines a light on what the badass war scenes actually do to the people you want to rule, is what you need to include in your story if your big climax is supposed to make the audience feel for these unnamed characters that technically exist but come across more as an idea than a living, breathing people worth caring about. If you only show the peasants as religious fanatics, cock slanging mobs, and sexist pigs that hate our named characters, then you're not going to inspire much sympathy, and you're definitely not going to make the actions to burn them seem as villainous as you want it to seem.
But here we are, and these peasants are standing in the way of an audiences favorite character winning the battle of all battles. Is it surprising that they want these fuckers to burn? What have the showrunners done to not stack the deck against them? Yes, there are some (many) that would cheer for Dany to burn them all no matter what because they want her to win no matter the cost, but the showrunners could have made the impulse to cheer on the destruction of the city feel a little more conflicting. Could have at least emotionally manipulated us and revisited that orphanage that Margaery introduced the viewers to. Take us there and show us that all of the kids in the orphanage are recent orphans because of Dany and Cersei's war . Make us see what Dany is about to destroy. Cute little babies.
If they show the cities destruction and want to hammer home how bad Dany is for doing it, we better at least see those toys Margaery dropped off on fire.
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Though I loved Stephen Dillane's Stannis, and Dillane did an incredible job with what little he was given, Book!Stannis is considerably different from his television counterpart. (I would have loved to have seen Dillane with some of Stannis' more iconic book lines. Why can't we have nice things?!)
To loosely describe Stannis in the books, he almost feels like the half-way point in terms of personality between Ned Stark and Tywin Lannister. He's got Ned's honor and sense of justice, just taken to the extreme. He also has Tywin's more intimidating presence, brilliant tactical mind, and tendency for hilarious one liners. Stannis also has a slightly different dynamic with Davos and Melisandre in the books. Stannis is more fond of Davos, and genuinely grateful for all Davos does for him, and in comparison, has more of a gritted-teeth pragmatic partnership with Melisandre - she never has the same level of manipulation and power over him she does in the show, and he's not obsessed with her. They're kinda the weirdest co-workers ever. (I really enjoy the trio's dynamic in books, but we don't see them interact as much in the books as they do in the show.)
We see less of Stannis' dynamic with Shireen in the books, but he's pretty insistent that she's his heir, and that she is to be protected at all costs, even if he dies. I presume if/when Stannis sacrifices Shireen in the books, the world would be in a pretty dire state to the point the throne no longer matters to him at all, as Stannis will have sacrificed his only heir. In the books, Stannis is one of the few characters focusing on the threat of the White Walkers over the throne in ADwD, which we unfortunately didn't see as much of in the show.
But yeah, Stannis definitely had the biggest personality change from his book counterpart out of all the main cast, to the point they don't really feel like the same character at times. Tyrion and Cersei would be the other two that have the biggest personality change. Tyrion has a big divergence from Book!Tyrion in personality and motives from S4 onwards, as Tyrion becomes a much more morally darker character in the books. (I wish some of it had been kept in, as Tyrion's post-S4 arc has been a waste of Peter Dinklage's talent.) Positively, I enjoy TV!Cersei a lot more than I enjoy Book!Cersei. TV!Cersei feels a lot more grounded and world-weary, and Lena Headey gives her a far more commanding presence.
I don't quite consider Euron part of the main cast, but he is another character that had a bit of a personality change. He's absolutely fucking terrifying in the books, and a genuine force to be reckoned with - he makes Ramsay and Joffery look like naughty children in comparison. In the show, Euron's just... yep. Yeeeeeeep.
Yes, this. Stannis and Dany are my two favs, and as you said, it's been interesting to see elements of Dany's character mirror Stannis' more and more, especially in the PR department.
My happiness with the ending honestly depends solely on whether Jon gets to be with the Freefolk and Ghost or not. Like if he's literally the Night's Watch and can't see them again besides occasional visits and has to take dumb vows, eh. If he's the 'Night's Watch' in sarcastic air quotes and just banishes himself because he goes "I literally don't care" that will be rad.
I mean I have problems with the story in itself, but I think the show is just not gonna address details. So I've tapped out in that regard, I'm just hopeful for character endings now.
I mean who is even gonna banish him? Maybe he decided for himself to take the black?
Oh yeah I fully expect it's gonna be like
"I've killed her."
"Oh..uh...how terrible your grace--"
"FUCK THAT. I'm a criminal. Honor demands I go to the wall."
"...Jon there is no fucking wall anymore."
"I will rebuild a fucking a wall just so I can banish myself there."
"But your grace--"
"Fine. My first act as king is to banish myself, fuck you."
"I--I really don't know how to react to that."
[Goes off to brood into the distance]
There have been pretty big hints of this in the books.
And the show has some large hints too.
The first time "King of the Andals and the First Men" is uttered in he series is over an image of these two.
Not to mention that the Iron Throne teaser from season 1 had the image of a raven behind the Iron Throne
And Bran means raven and is the Three Eyed Raven.
I get there are hints, but you can hint to hell and back and it can still be a bad conclusion to the story as you've told it. Like, if GRRM included a character's random dream about Moon Boy on the throne, and then ended with King Moon Boy, the hint wouldn't make it into a good story. Bran, as written, makes no sense as king. You're literally just getting out of a plot about how hard it's been for Dany to win over supporters who don't relate to her, and the value of Jon's personal charisma and masculine warrior persona, and you're going to put a perpetually stoned space alien in a wheelchair on the throne because he knows history real good?
Yeah, this is more or less my reading of the scene, too. And if it's correct, of course D&D aren't going to give the game away in a fluff piece to camera.
Of course, if I'm wrong and he really is going back to Cersei just because he still loves her, I'll eat all the crow and bitch about the culmination of his arc until the end of time.
This.
It's incredible to me that even given the admittedly patchy writing, so many people have such a fundamental misreading of Dany's character. Sure, she's done a lot of good for the world, no denying that. But she's always had darker impulses her more temperate advisers have repeatedly had to talk her back from. Now those people are dying off one by one and those who are left have lost faith in her. Coupled with her dangerous entitlement levels, it was only a matter of time before this happened. Losing Rhaegal and Missandei just lit the fuse.
#teamStark
I mean, you write that scene as a joke, but it's pretty much the most Jon Snow scene imaginable.
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Honestly, yeah. Like if that ends up being the ending it's gonna be like "...I mean I hate it but I can't say it's out of character in the slightest." Only way it could be more Jon Snow is if he gets to Castle Black ready to brood and Tormund is there to fuck with him. Which, given this episode, honestly might not be unlikely.
Freefolk Memes are onpoint today.
Real talk though, how many times can Jon refuse a title and be offered a better one?
Stannis: "Become Lord of Winterfell."
"No."
Everyone: "Be King in the North."
"No."
Dany: "Okay, okay....Warden?"
"Sure."
Dany:"That's great! Winterfell is--"
"Sansa's. I only take the Warden title."
Dany:"...Jesus Christ."
Everyone: "...King of the 7 kingdoms?"
"NO"
Jon had to basically be dragged into being Lord Commander. This man has so little ambition he has no choice but to become Night King or some sort of God at the end of the show, because the universe will keep making him succeed out of spite.
When did he confirm this? Because GRRM originally planned for a trilogy. Then he announced there'd be a five year gap after ASOS. Then, in AFFC (a book that only exists because he changed his mind about the five year gap) he outright states in print that ADWD (a book that only exists because AFFC was too big, causing him to divide the characters into two) should be out in the following year, when in reality it took six years!
I don't think GRRM deliberately lies, but he's a piss-poor planner and I'll take anything he predicts about TWOW with a huge pinch of salt.
I'm only a very casual fan of this show but man, Bran as King sounds hilarious to me.
Really hope they go with anything else. I take a dragon or some old sandwich instead of that.
Really hope they go with anything else. I take a dragon or some old sandwich instead of that.
After all this fighting and the the death of Dany (it would probably be even worse for him if he has to kill her himself) and everyone is gonna be like "Jon you are now king" I bet he's gonna go "Fuck y'all Im out, gonna banish myself to Castle Black".
There have been pretty big hints of this in the books.
And the show has some large hints too.
The first time "King of the Andals and the First Men" is uttered in he series is over an image of these two.
Not to mention that the Iron Throne teaser from season 1 had the image of a raven behind the Iron Throne
And Bran means raven and is the Three Eyed Raven.
It's easy to succumb to confirmation bias when you look back over many hours of content as you begin to come to the conclusion of something. I dont' put any trust in D&D being this mindful of shit when they began the show.
They won't even have a scene of everyone being like "you're King now Jon". It'll just cut away and the next time we see Jon he'll be at the Wall.
Does someone mind pointing me to the spoiler leak or dropping bullets in here behind the tag? I've been able to pick up pieces of what is rumored.
If the Bran junk is true, I see him giving John the out to go back to the north/Wall. All he'd need to do is say someone needs to rebuild it/the NK threat will return.
It's just been what's been discussed the last two pages with Bran, Jon and Tyrion.
I don't think we have to tag it do we, this is unmarked spoilers? But anyway the main points are:
- Jon kills Daenerys then returns to the Nights Watch
- Bran is king, Sansa is Warden of the North and Arya just swans off on her own. Davos and Bronn are on Bran's small council.
- Cersei dies, maybe by Jaime, maybe not. Jaime also dies too.
- Varys gets executed by Daenerys, Tyrion is arrested for treason. Don't think anyone has said what happens to him in the end.
- The Hound finishes off the Mountain but also dies
- Jon kills Greyworm after the Unsullied sack King's Landing and murder loads of innocents
- Euron dies although it's either Jon, Jaime or Drogon who kill him
Do you have adirect link to these newer leaks? I just want to read comments and stuff.
White Walkers dead, peace made with the Wildlings... why is there still a Nights Watch?
Lol, this show. It's a mess.
Whatever else d&d are writing by themselves is going to be a massive shit show
Whatever else d&d are writing by themselves is going to be a massive shit show
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