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CatDoggo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
775
Damn, if this ends with Gamefreak condemning James Turner to some forgotten part of GF headquarters to appease the Japanese fanbase rather than actually fixing anything...oof. If by some crazy happenstance these games don't actually sell gangbusters, it's going to suck if he becomes the fall guy.

Edit: Because apparently the Japanese equivalent of 4Chan is blaming everything on Turner and think he's the one ruining Pokemon.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,710
Galarian Meowth is weird to me, it easily could have just been its own pokemon with some small changes, was the desire to wank off Meowth more too strong?
 

Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,386
I just want to make one thing clear,this game will sell. A lot. Record high even.

And the smugness that will follow from posters pretending we all said Dexit would make the game fail will be maddening.
This is going to be extremely annoying. I'm really not looking forward to any Nintendo or even game centered podcast whenever Pokémon sales will be a topic.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,642
Costa Rica
Damn, if this ends with Gamefreak condemning James Turner to some forgotten part of GF headquarters to appease the Japanese fanbase rather than actually fixing anything...oof. If by some crazy happenstance these games don't actually sell gangbusters, it's going to suck if he becomes the fall guy.

"Look no one in the real world cares about GF rewarding xenophobia. You probably never even use the Pokémon Turner designed, just make new favorites, game will still sell"
 

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,169
They could always sell Pokemons as DLC, $9.99 per Pokemon.

source.gif
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,124
Damn, if this ends with Gamefreak condemning James Turner to some forgotten part of GF headquarters to appease the Japanese fanbase rather than actually fixing anything...oof. If by some crazy happenstance these games don't actually sell gangbusters, it's going to suck if he becomes the fall guy.

Edit: Because apparently the Japanese equivalent of 4Chan is blaming everything on Turner and think he's the one ruining Pokemon.

Just from a quick glance, a lot of the Japanese fanbase seems unhappy with the new Pokemon, with unfavorable comparisons to gen 5. I definitely felt like gen 5 had a certain "look" to it that is also present in gen 8, so I wonder if gen 5 is less popular in Japan.

It's too bad because it's basically the one thing I think they absolutely nailed in SWSH, after not caring much for the revealed Pokemon.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,975
You haven't seen all the animations yet, there are new animations, it's not just wingull

The textures will improve until release, it's ridiculous to focus on that tree, it's a placeholder, it's usually the last thing devs improve

You don't know how many new Pokemon there are, you don't know if it's less than Alola, there might be many more, you don't know

You don't know if there isn't a post game, they will probably have a big post game now that they don't have so many Pokemon, let's wait until release

You don't know if there aren't new features besides Dynamaxing and camping, they haven't showed the full game yet, they said the cut would help them put more features in the game, there might be many more, you don't know

You don't know how many old Pokemon will be returning, it could be most of them, probably close to S/M total number, let's wait until we see the whole Dex



Well, you don't know if they won't have everything we wanted for this game in the next one, they are probably developing it right now and it's gonna be the HD core game everybody wanted, maybe they will have a bigger Dex and more returning Pokemon, just wait 5 years so we can see it and judge on that, you don't know.

I mean a lot of that was true. Now things are known so it's logical to complain about the information we have versus speculation.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,874
Damn, if this ends with Gamefreak condemning James Turner to some forgotten part of GF headquarters to appease the Japanese fanbase rather than actually fixing anything...oof. If by some crazy happenstance these games don't actually sell gangbusters, it's going to suck if he becomes the fall guy.

Edit: Because apparently the Japanese equivalent of 4Chan is blaming everything on Turner and think he's the one ruining Pokemon.

Gamefreak literally doesn't need to do anything. The idea that the art director in any situation is the fall guy seems ridiculous
 

NHarmonic.

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,291
Damn, if this ends with Gamefreak condemning James Turner to some forgotten part of GF headquarters to appease the Japanese fanbase rather than actually fixing anything...oof. If by some crazy happenstance these games don't actually sell gangbusters, it's going to suck if he becomes the fall guy.

Edit: Because apparently the Japanese equivalent of 4Chan is blaming everything on Turner and think he's the one ruining Pokemon.

Why are they reacting now?

I remember when we first got news of this, people told on the threads that the japanese fandom was ok with it...
 

CatDoggo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
775
Just from a quick glance, a lot of the Japanese fanbase seems unhappy with the new Pokemon, with unfavorable comparisons to gen 5. I definitely felt like gen 5 had a certain "look" to it that is also present in gen 8, so I wonder if gen 5 is less popular in Japan.

It's too bad because it's basically the one thing I think they absolutely nailed in SWSH, after not caring much for the revealed Pokemon.

I mean, I love gen 5 and I wish SWSH was doing what it did. Do a game that's all new Pokemon but not at the expense of the old ones to the point that they're completely removed from the code. I would be perfectly fine with another game that is nothing but new Pokemon as long as it has it where you can also get a bunch of the old ones in the post game and transfer in the rest if you want. Gen 5 did it perfectly. All new Pokemon but the rest still existed. The sequels even expanded the roster for those who didn't want to use the new Pokemon. Man, those games just weren't appreciated back in their time. LOL

If SWSH are meant to be the successor to gen 5, it kinda sucks at it.
 

cainhxrst

Member
Nov 10, 2018
1,380
The intense backlash it seems like this game will get on launch (mainly dex issues, which affects people's perception of the entire game) honestly makes me really curious about how gen 9 will be handled, since they've likely already entered planning for that.

Obviously the sales won't take a huge dip, but gamefreak generally does listen to fan critique from gen to gen.
 

Sacul64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,755
Damn, if this ends with Gamefreak condemning James Turner to some forgotten part of GF headquarters to appease the Japanese fanbase rather than actually fixing anything...oof. If by some crazy happenstance these games don't actually sell gangbusters, it's going to suck if he becomes the fall guy.

Edit: Because apparently the Japanese equivalent of 4Chan is blaming everything on Turner and think he's the one ruining Pokemon.

Wait j thought when the Dec cuts first got announced Japanese fans were making fun of the West for overreacting? At least that narrative was around during e3 was it not true?
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,546
I mean a lot of that was true. Now things are known so it's logical to complain about the information we have versus speculation.

I'd say a lot of it was just a way to dismiss complaints, since while not technically confirmed, it was obvious that a lot of was speculated was gonna be like that considering the context and tendencies of the last few games.

For example, did anyone really expect to see new flying animations for other Pokemon and just Wingull (which was handpicked to show up in E3 gameplay) to have his old bad one? Did anyone really expect a major overhaul of the textures to a point where they didn't look bad when they had showed them in that state since the first trailer? Did anyone really think we would have a much higher number of new Pokemon when the count has been dramatically decreased since 2013?

I think people knew very well what to expect and knew complaints were founded and valid, but they abused that "let's wait until the game comes out" argument to dismiss everything. Same happened with Let's Go, when they were saying we should wait for the core game, although at the time no one could really predict that Dexit would happen, so it felt more sincere at least.

Now that we now for a fact what is in the game and can discuss with certainty, people are like "are we talking about Dexit again, I'm so tired of it". Feels like an endless loophole where it's never ok to express any kind of discontent ever about the games.
 

Palidoozy

Concept Artist at Maxis Texas/EA
Verified
Sep 17, 2019
35
Austin, Texas
Just from a quick glance, a lot of the Japanese fanbase seems unhappy with the new Pokemon, with unfavorable comparisons to gen 5. I definitely felt like gen 5 had a certain "look" to it that is also present in gen 8, so I wonder if gen 5 is less popular in Japan.

It's too bad because it's basically the one thing I think they absolutely nailed in SWSH, after not caring much for the revealed Pokemon.

Yeah, I actually adore the designs in SWSH. It's part of what bums me out -- I like a lot of the new designs and would love to add them to my little group I bring from game to game.

Technically that's still possible, but I like being able to bring all my breeders with me for use and can't anymore. :\
 

cainhxrst

Member
Nov 10, 2018
1,380
Was there even an official announcement about the dex cuts made in japan? or did they just have to react to the e3 stream?
 

Terraforce

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
18,917
That feel when the last PMD has more Pokemon in it than the mainline 60 dollar Switch game.

Srsly, the last PMD had all 720 mons that existed at the time in it.
One of the weirdest parts about the cuts is spin offs in general. You can play as Pokemon in Pokken on Switch that you can never see in SWSH. Heck, even worse for the anime when the theme is retreading old ground and you see mons like Bulbasaur and Squirtle who aren't even in the game.

I don't mind the cuts, but it's so bizarre when you look at the the series outside of the games.
 

Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,986
Damn, if this ends with Gamefreak condemning James Turner to some forgotten part of GF headquarters to appease the Japanese fanbase rather than actually fixing anything...oof. If by some crazy happenstance these games don't actually sell gangbusters, it's going to suck if he becomes the fall guy.

Edit: Because apparently the Japanese equivalent of 4Chan is blaming everything on Turner and think he's the one ruining Pokemon.

Utter dumbasses if that's true.

Turner is responsible for like the one thing Sword and Shield seems to have done really well.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,124
Man, those games just weren't appreciated back in their time.

They weren't. I'm as guilty of that myself. I definitely enjoyed them at the time but felt the railroading was restrictive. Nowadays it's practically open world compared to the later games, and the amount of content they offer is a blessing.

Objectively speaking, Black/White 2 is probably the best Pokemon game, although I slightly prefer Platinum and HGSS, all three occupy a tier that the series hasn't come close to reaching since the end of the DS era. I'm gonna replay White 2 later this year on Challenge Mode and I'm looking forward to it.

Was there even an official announcement about the dex cuts made in japan? or did they just have to react to the e3 stream?

Just the E3 stream.
 

chrisPjelly

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
10,494
I don't get the hate for the new designs. Aside from the ANTHRO STARTER squad, a lot of the British touches are lovely
Probably because like many here they didn't think they would go this far.

The memes all made fun of "Lesser" mons like Maractus, then fucking Mewtwo got axed.
Put me in that camp for people who felt like that in the west. I was like, "that's alright, I don't want to keep track of 1000 pokemon, so a balanced 500-600 are fine. Besides, they'll probably keep all the starters and popular pokemon and cut out 90 percent of the shitty gen 5 pokemon". Oh how foolish I was.
 

cainhxrst

Member
Nov 10, 2018
1,380
They weren't. I'm as guilty of that myself. I definitely enjoyed them at the time but felt the railroading was restrictive. Nowadays it's practically open world compared to the later games, and the amount of content they offer is a blessing.

Objectively speaking, Black/White 2 is probably the best Pokemon game, although I slightly prefer Platinum and HGSS, all three occupy a tier that the series hasn't come close to reaching since the end of the DS era. I'm gonna replay White 2 later this year on Challenge Mode and I'm looking forward to it.



Just the E3 stream.

looooooooooool yikes
 

chrisPjelly

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
10,494
lol you brought this upon yourself, mate. Gen 5 rules and I'm glad it's getting some love in this game.
Not knocking the game (in retrospect it probably is one of the best in the series), but there's a reason a lot of us were so cold on the game back when it was released, and it's not just Garbordor...
 

Bomblord

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jan 11, 2018
6,390
This is going to be extremely annoying. I'm really not looking forward to any Nintendo or even game centered podcast whenever Pokémon sales will be a topic.

Actually conversation I had with a co-worker today
"Did you see the pokedex leaked and someone compiled a list of every Pokemon that won't be returning?"
"Yea hundreds of Pokemon were left out I literally hate this game now"
"Yea but you'll buy it anyway"
"No I won't..."
"Yea you will"
"Yea... I will"
 

Terraforce

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
18,917
I just want to make one thing clear,this game will sell. A lot. Record high even.

And the smugness that will follow from posters pretending we all said Dexit would make the game fail will be maddening.
You just KNOW people already have their tweets and posts drafted for when we hear SWSH sells several million in a week and probably even when we hear it outsells every prior game outside of R/B and G/S. "LOL Nice try Dexit XDDDDD" -___-

As someone who is admittedly excited by and welcomes these cuts, those types of posts will annoy me to no end.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,419
Phoenix, AZ
Damn, if this ends with Gamefreak condemning James Turner to some forgotten part of GF headquarters to appease the Japanese fanbase rather than actually fixing anything...oof. If by some crazy happenstance these games don't actually sell gangbusters, it's going to suck if he becomes the fall guy.

Edit: Because apparently the Japanese equivalent of 4Chan is blaming everything on Turner and think he's the one ruining Pokemon.

he relies way too heavily on anthropomorphism. and those designs more often than not aren't great.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,431
Chicago
I was pretty sure my last post was about GAME FREAK "holding Pokémon back" as you use quotes that weren't in my post at all. Kindly stop making up false talking points my dude.

I explicitly mentioned ""corporate apologists'" as someone who is more involved than the average player go just buy the games. As in a before you blame normal people, these should be blamed. But I really don't think either of them is the real problem, I already stated GF is.

And let me make this perfectly clear since you were in about some thinly veiled "lazy dev" rhetoric (you ain't slick btw) it has nothing to do with their laziness but everything to do with their priorities being absurdly asinine.

GF continues to pare down good feature cause of a need to have new gimmicks each gen, instead of focusing on what good ideas they do have and improving them. The mega to z move to gigantamax is proof of this.



The problem is that something that is controversial as of the cut should have been faced head on. They should have realized the old tricks wouldn't be kosher with something this big.

You are also acting like expecting to be able to catch them all is a bad thing considering the franchise slogan. And if they wanted to distance themselves from that they could have tried significantly harder to do so, instead of just retroactively removing ads about it.



Lol it makes money so it has to be right, even before the actual aftermath of a major decision like this

Thanks for the laugh I guess




The smugness is already here

The irony is rich.

Stay mad brehs 😎
 

1000% H

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,639
I don't get the hate for the new designs. Aside from the ANTHRO STARTER squad, a lot of the British touches are lovely

Put me in that camp for people who felt like that in the west. I was like, "that's alright, I don't want to keep track of 1000 pokemon, so a balanced 500-600 are fine. Besides, they'll probably keep all the starters and popular pokemon and cut out 90 percent of the shitty gen 5 pokemon". Oh how foolish I was.
Cutting out 90 percent of the shitty gen 5 Pokemon means cutting like 2 Pokemon.
 

cainhxrst

Member
Nov 10, 2018
1,380
he relies way too heavily on anthropomorphism. and those designs more often than not aren't great.

does he? off of the top of my head, he's done the vanillite line, golurk, the ultra beasts, trevenant, etc none of which I'd really consider anthro. Bizzare yeah? but human-like? i dunno

edit: ok aside from the weird cockroach lady UB
 

Scarlet Spider

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,741
Brooklyn, NY
This is fucking ridiculous if true
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Sadly I've seen it too. They're the ones that were first considering reporting GF to the Japanese Affairs Agency. One of them wants to report Masuda to the law for misrepresenting his product because he's making it seem like you can still catch them all in Japanese material. And of course, sending crude art of James Turner fused with some of the Fossilmons.
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,824
I think one of the worst and more depressing aspects about this whole mess is how it caused a lot of the bigger names in the Pokemon community to really show their ass. I lost all of the respect I ever had for Serebii when he posted some garbage tweet on Twitter using that disgusting and ableist autistic screeching meme to mock everyone who had a problem with the cuts.

Really fucking sucks too cause one of the first major online autistic communities I ever found and took part in was the one that was on his forum well over a decade ago. It ain't exactly fun to find out that the dude who runs one of the first places you ever found any form of acceptance is more than happy to throw you and that community under the bus.
The Serebii guy thinks that just because he runs a Pokemon site it entitles him to be the authority on the franchise. Dude has a hilariously warped sense of self importance when he's no more a fan than the rest of us.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,419
Phoenix, AZ
As subjective as any of that is, hes the art director not the end all creature designer of the games.

Of course. But the heavy uptick in inanimate object based designs began with him joining the team.

we have an ice cream Pokémon, a sword, a cake, a teacup, a garbage bag, a gear, a sandcastle, probably forgetting a lot but yeah. Just a few of those were memorable designs.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,642
Costa Rica
The thing is the animosity towards newer Pokémon is only going to get worse with Dexit.

"THAT DIGIMON MADE IT ON BUT NOT MEWTWO!?"
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,546
Gen 5 design where REALLY jarring for me of the time, I won't say it didn't affect my impression of the games. Now that I have fully digested them, I consider it kind of a turning point in the design philosophy in the series and made peace with it.

But what really bothered me wasn't that, but the linearity of the game, and that is still the reason I don't like it. The linearity that we have now started with gen 5, like it or not. I'm hoping SwSh will change that a little bit, at least we don't have a circular map again.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,546
This situation with James Turner really is a shit show.

I'm not the biggest fan of his designs, but the problems with SwSh are very very far from being the new Pokemon.