Such bullshit that someone made this. Completely clouds the entire affair, too.
How ugly it's gotten everywhere.
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Ooblets will be exclusive to Epic Games Store on PC
- Thread starter fieldafar
- Start date
Such bullshit that someone made this. Completely clouds the entire affair, too.
How ugly it's gotten everywhere.
I'm not the one that bumped this thread with the Epic's tweet about the harassment the devs received. The new discussion clouds over the original one. You are free to keep trying to talk about Epic's misdeeds against the PC gaming community, but don't be surprised people will think you are trying to justify whatever toxicity was directed towards the devs.
But this the the Ooblets Epic Deal announcement thread, the harassment is this one:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ep...on-abuse-see-staff-post.133131/#post-23368832
There's no reason people couldn't discuss both things.
I wasn't talking about EGS, I was talking about the Ooblets Announcement Situation. The original blog post and some early responses cannot be discussed anymore because however nice you try to be about it, nothing good will come out of trying to "educate" the devs about the issues. That is all I meant.
Trying to have a discussion about their tone or whatever instead of standing behind them against the hate is simply mean.
And I repeat, it's not fake news. What that Epic post is about is the actual serious situation. The situation that is two people receiving death threats and have a rampaging hate mob harassing their whole community, not the flippant tone of the devs' messages.
Had that tweet not been posted here, I'd agree with you. But the case is that the discussion got derailed to a new subject. You are free to try and get things back on the original topic, but I don't think it will work (or that it's useful, considering this thread was basically dead until that tweet).
This is how I feel as well, this whole saga feels a little uncomfortably similar to the early stages of GamerGate.
Feels like there were two stages to this. The first stage was mostly what I saw here on the site. Then the second stage came from elsewhere with the fakes and death threats.
Disgusting how easy it is for the internet to stage these things.
Disgusting how easy it is for the internet to stage these things.
The egs topics will continue to get uglier as long as it will be treated as a silly thing that will blow over. People have repeatedly said it loudly how much epic is disliked and yet each time an egs deal is announced everyone pretends to be caught off guard by the backlash
The tweet is related to the announcement that this thread is about, no?
Never had a problem with the EGS stuff in this case, that was well argued and fair enough, my problem was with Perplamps of Glumberland (of all people) being continually rude and antagonistic towards well-mannered people on their Discord. That (and the dismissive, condescending tone of the blog post) is why this blew up and something like Untitled Goose Game or Maneater or etc. did not.
But if you took offense at that, you ought to be able to empathize with the much worse situation Glumberland has had to endure. I didn't recognize it for a period of time that was too long, but for a while now we've been beyond the point where it makes sense to move on from that criticism and show Glumberland support against this gamer(tm) hell garbage.
EGS discussion will surely be impacted by this. Probably not in a good way. The ol' general narrative that's been dragging along since the start in February - of if you don't like EGS you're too lazy to click a different icon and are whining about petty things that don't matter - was already bubbling up as this Ooblets oordeal started, and I expect will continue to grow its foothold. Only now you're also an entitled toxic angry gamer asshole who hates developers. And developers will believe this narrative to a larger extent, and probably become more hostile to those who have issues with EGS. And also games media even more than before. And people in general.
Meanwhile all I've been saying is that I don't like EGS because games on it cost me up to 30% more. But through these almost six months, no one seems to want to listen to stuff like that. People just for some reason assume you dislike EGS for no reason. Then they hear the loud angry assholes and assume you're one.
The whole thing is stupid. I feel like it's better to basically just not bother with the topic any longer.
Both because people don't want to listen anyway, and because those angry gamer assholes are out there using it to justify their shitty behavior.
And because I've come to realize that waiting a year is a very valid option and not really that big of a deal to me. I'll just do that and leave it at that.
But if you took offense at that, you ought to be able to empathize with the much worse situation Glumberland has had to endure. I didn't recognize it for a period of time that was too long, but for a while now we've been beyond the point where it makes sense to move on from that criticism and show Glumberland support against this gamer(tm) hell garbage.
EGS discussion will surely be impacted by this. Probably not in a good way. The ol' general narrative that's been dragging along since the start in February - of if you don't like EGS you're too lazy to click a different icon and are whining about petty things that don't matter - was already bubbling up as this Ooblets oordeal started, and I expect will continue to grow its foothold. Only now you're also an entitled toxic angry gamer asshole who hates developers. And developers will believe this narrative to a larger extent, and probably become more hostile to those who have issues with EGS. And also games media even more than before. And people in general.
Meanwhile all I've been saying is that I don't like EGS because games on it cost me up to 30% more. But through these almost six months, no one seems to want to listen to stuff like that. People just for some reason assume you dislike EGS for no reason. Then they hear the loud angry assholes and assume you're one.
The whole thing is stupid. I feel like it's better to basically just not bother with the topic any longer.
Both because people don't want to listen anyway, and because those angry gamer assholes are out there using it to justify their shitty behavior.
And because I've come to realize that waiting a year is a very valid option and not really that big of a deal to me. I'll just do that and leave it at that.
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It's the evolution of GamerGate, the very same people. They are still doing what they have always been doing against women, but now they are also doing this and it's escalating just like any other alt-right movement.
Yes, but it changes the focus of the discussion from the deal to the devs. For better or for worse, it's now impossible to discuss one without taking into account the other.
This is where I will stop this metadiscussion. Feel free to DM if you wish, but I don't see the point in repeating the same things in here.
Or maybe it's time for certain people to get a fucking grip, gain perspective about where all this shit sits in the grand scheme of life, and get over it.
What's odd, is they did say that... They actually perfectly addressed it...
But they buried and surrounded it with a bunch of stuff seemingly intentionally prodding at the fans of the game that wouldnt like the change. That's why I still support the original blog post even though its poorly done. I cannot imagine any reason why you would willingly torpedo yourself like that; it forces me to assume that either they were just naive and didn't realize what they were doing; or it was an attempt at humor and they just FAILED. I refuse to believe this was intentional, it came out of nowhere.
Never underestimate the poor social awareness of brilliant indie designers
I fully agree, though I think it is perfectly valid in this thread to discuss the candour of the developers discussion in this case. I don't think I have to repeatedly post my agreement and "solidarity" every single time a discussion is brought up, post-internet idiots doing ridiculous things.
And there is a very significant difference between highlighting how both polar opposite sides of this trivialise each other with broad stroke discussion, hence my mention of "fake news" like tactics, vs actually broadly saying everything is fake - which it absolutely isn't. I doubt I made my point clear enough anyway, so apologises.
There's legitimate criticism towards the Epic store from a consumer's viewpoint, because the store fundamentally has taken a developer first approach, not really offering much to users, aside from the free games (which admittedly is cool). Games on Epic store get more expensive where I live and I don't just like using Steam's controller support, it essential to the comfy couch experience to me. Epic is basically asking me to give up client controller support/reconfiguration and pay more for my games. In return I get the hassle of sharing my info and splitting my library with their launcher. It's not much of a sales pitch.
There's a lot of articles written about it, but I rarely see them approach the subject from the perspective of users. That's a little frustrating.
Who? The people making fakes, issuing death threats, and generally just going into the devs various channels and harassing them? I would certainly agree that those people need to get a grip, for sure.
All those that have over the top rage reactions at the announcement of every new Epic exclusive.
I guess it depends on how you define "over the top," but in general, I would agree. Still, in this thread, at least, I feel like most of the frustration and anger came as a result of the words in the blog post and the follow up statements made by the perplamps dude rather than the exclusivity deal itself.
those pesky consumers and their opinions
you, an intellectual: people should just the shut the fuck up and deal with it
honestly i can't believe no one has figured this out before. you can apply this to almost any issue in the world. you absolute genius
topic: we're right at that point where people will begin to conflate legitimate criticisms of the egs, and subsequently this dev acting like a bellend, to the psychopaths responding with death threats and the like. the conservation will get muddled by it, and groups of people who agree with 90% of the issue will argue as if they are polar opposites, hugely caused by crazy pieces of garbage and bad actors. there is still a discussion to be had where we can all agree devs being threatened or needlessly harassed is 100% not ok
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Dude I was replying to was talking about the reactions to Epic in general
I said cut the over the top rage and you translate that to "shut up"
K!
"grand scheme of life" is an argument dismissal technique commonly used when faced with legitimate talking points
the dev, in this very thread, that you are posting in, literally used the same technique and whataboutism to say people should worry about child internment camps or climate change instead
so tell me friend, in the grand scheme of life, is it really worth responding to me? can i hit you with a "go outside and smell the fresh air, be happy you're alive, etc"?
You're referring to the blogpost, right? I feel like you're taking them out of context there, they were clearly referring to things which people should focus their vitriol, hatred and anger at... not fair criticism. Massive difference.
Nobody is saying you can't criticize them or have an opinion that you don't like it or things could be better another way; there no good reason to lump that in with death threats and harassment to try and say they're trying to dismiss talking points.
The blog post is still up. You can go read it. It was directed at anyone who might feel angry about their decision, not just those who would have more extreme reactions.
Every single thing said here is right even if the tone is a bit condescending. At the end of the day, as inconvenient and draconian as it might be to juggle launchers, this whole "fuck Epic and everyone who takes their cash" thing has gotten so insanely toxic, vitriolic and sickening.
These are people making video games with limited budgets and a lot of their personal time and health on the line in order to entertain YOU. If a deal helps them keep the lights on and allows their blood, sweat and tears to instantly get some monetary pay off and the only cost to the end user is downloading a free launcher that is separate from their preferred launcher, that's a damn nice deal.
If you believe that death threats, hate posts/tweets/messages or threats or commital of piracy are justified because of this, you're acting entitled and you're a trash person. Thems the breaks.
Maybe it's just my read then but I thought he was referring not to people who might feel angry, but people EXPRESSING their anger vehemently on the internet. Being angry doesn't always manifest in sending angry messages to developers, threatening to pirate copies, harassing them etc etc.. like, that shouldn't turn you into being toxic towards them, full stop. That irrational.
Like I said, I wouldn't lump them together.
Yes, that's how I chose to classify the dozens of hateful follow up posts by perplamps. It was ugly stuff.
Yes, of course, the garbage behavior by certain people deserves to be condemned. I did not get that read from the blog post, which also was written up and went out before anyone had any reactions.
That's absolutely incorrect and not true at all. Any experiecened PR person would never release such a statement.
That's something that I'd agree with.
You're ignoring all of the arguments about why this is not just about EGS being just another launcher or not someone's preferred launcher. I'm assuming it's because you don't care, but spend even just a couple of seconds to see why other launchers that are not Steam (even those with their own exclusives) do not get the level of hate that EGS does.
Nobody reasonable in this thread (and hopefully this forum) believes this. Stop propping up strawmen just to beat them up. How about address actual people and their positions of which there are hundreds in this thread. No need for strawmen.
I'm well aware of the argument and reasons that people hate the EGS, I just think that when people are receiving death threats based on a video game launcher exclusivity deal that maybe it's time to put all of the business practices aside for a moment and come together to stand up for the human beings being threatened with physical violence and having their livelihood exploited by piracy. We're talking about two issues here - EGS exclusivity and threats made by countless members of the community - and one of them is so insignificant compared to the other that it's almost reckless to be concerned with the lesser of the two issues in a time like this.
I think it's operative to keep in mind that these AREN'T experienced PR people though. I understand the frustration with their tone here but what was the alternative, put out the same carefully crafted press release announcing Epic exclusivity that countless developers have that winds up yielding the same toxic and vicious reaction? Why not show some awareness of the situation while offering your reasoning, context and a bit of humor? Personally, I would take the earnest and sarcastic tone offered here over the corporate feeling press release that everyone else has done.
Insulting everyone that takes issues with the EGS isn't a humoristic approach.
I think this is a crazy proposition, to be honest. We can only police our own community. If you see people on this forum advocating for piracy or threatening violence, then it's pretty easy to report those people, call them out, and have them removed from this forum. That kind of stuff is not acceptable, but the fact that extremists and shitty people exist must not be used as a justification to shut down legitimate criticisms.
Just about every EGS announcement that has gone overly negative for the developer (rather than Epic themselves) was because of dismissive or antagonist statements by the developers, or because the developers were somehow going back on what they had promised before taking the deal. I can't think of any huge controversies over a dev just taking the deal and being honest about it without the above.
The discourse that everyone that has a problem with EGS is part of a hate group is worrisome and scary.
Someone literally said that in the other thread before its reboot.
This thread?
I ctrl + f'd for "hate group" and didn't find a single result. I also just did a forum-wide search for "hate group" and didn't find a single result relating to this story
Try searching for gamergate instead?...and its this https://www.resetera.com/threads/ep...information-abuse.133100/page-3#post-23365138, first time i saw the one you linked
Where did someone say that "everyone that has a problem with EGS is part of [gamergate]"?
None. I'm pretty sure anyone actually insinuating that is going to catch a ban quickly, the rebooted thread is a graveyard.
I didn´t say that someone said it, but its pretty clear that was implied.
Where has anyone implied that EVERYONE that has a problem with EGS is part of gamergate?