Only Pokémon in Galar Pokédex can be transferred to Sword & Shield from Pokémon Home; similar restrictions intended for subsequent titles

[rustyphish]

I don't think any one IP can. Pokémon would have to bleed fans to other IPs like Yokai Watch, TemTem or whatever little by little, until it makes a dent big enough for them to notice. Can't say I see that happening any time soon either.

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I'm not saying it's right, but it's worth acknowledging that they got a pass previously from some simply because they still were including hundreds of unique pokemon. As soon as they blamed how difficult it would be to keep the quality up if they continued to do this, it recontextualized that quality for many many people.

tl;dr if you're gonna say you're cutting pokemon for quality, people are gonna be more critical of that quality

 

[Servbot24]

Then you're literally making shit up. Experience is absolutely needed to say whether something is a tall task or not, specially when you're talking about animation, of all things. It's complex work.

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It is complex work, but you're making it sound like some god-level skill. Doing it truly artfully is of course, but Pokemon animations are hardly the pinnacle of the industry. There are so many incredible artists out there, if GF wanted to contract extra staff they could.

I don't animate professionally, but I work with animators on a daily basis, and of course I've created my own hobby animations in Maya as I'm sure anyone else has. I'm not trying to claim I'm an expert on the subject or anything, but I'm not 100% blind to the work that goes into it.

That said I really don't think expertise is needed to see the difference between complexity in designs (TLOUII has complex animations, Fire Emblem has more simple animations - anyone should be able to see this). I am very surprised that saying Pokemon have relatively simple animations turned out to be a controversial claim.

 

[udivision]

But what can possibly compete with Pokémon?

I've thought about this a lot. At the end of the day, I want better Pokémon, not alternatives to it.

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I feel the same. Go bigger and better. Other-mon will never be Pokemon.

 

[Maple]

Cause to me it's starting to enter that state where I'm not even sure what direction it's going anymore.

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Mobile. It's apparent at this point that the core games exist to introduce new Pokemon and little more. It seems all the attention is being directed to creating more mobile Pokemon apps and games.

 

[Deleted member 32018]

I guess I always hoped that creativity and ambition would drive the growth of the series, which it certainly always has, but not always in the ways I want. I think competition would be good, but at the same time, I know I'm unlikely to even dabble in any of that.

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Yeah there will always be creativity and ambition (as seen in the new games imo) but it won't be able to break through the ceiling of safety that they have without competition and so that will leave some unsatisfied.

IP's like Yokai Watch need to try and shake off the tag of being just for young kids and instead be for 'everyone', in the same way Pokemon is and it needs to get global recognition by releasing games worldwide simultaneously. That would be a start.

 

[MarcelRguez]

I'm not saying it's right, but it's worth acknowledging that they got a pass previously from some simply because they still were including hundreds of unique pokemon. As soon as they blamed how difficult it would be to keep the quality up if they continued to do this, it recontextualized that quality for many many people.

tl;dr if you're gonna say you're cutting pokemon for quality, people are gonna be more critical of that quality

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I just wish this thread in general would try less hard to pick fights with so many imaginary people, y'know?

Yeah there will always be creativity and ambition (as seen in the new games imo) but it won't be able to break through the ceiling of safety that they have without competition and so that will leave some unsatisfied.

IP's like Yokai Watch need to try and shake off the tag of being just for young kids and instead be for 'everyone', in the same way Pokemon is and it needs to get global recognition by releasing games worldwide simultaneously. That would be a start.

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Speaking of new IPs, it does seem like Game Freak wants to focus their creativity in stuff other than Pokémon. Which strikes me as strange, because I bet plenty of talent comes and goes between each game released.

 

[Phellps]

It is complex work, but you're making it sound like some god-level skill. Doing it truly artfully is of course, but Pokemon animations are hardly the pinnacle of the industry. There are so many incredible artists out there, if GF wanted to contract extra staff they could.

I don't animate professionally, but I work with animators on a daily basis, and of course I've created my own hobby animations in Maya as I'm sure anyone else has. I'm not trying to claim I'm an expert on the subject or anything, but I'm not 100% blind to the work that goes into it.

I am very surprised that saying Pokemon have relatively simple animations turned out to be a controversial claim.

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The problem is the word "relatively". If you compare them to life-like animations like Red Dead Redemption 2, of course they will pale in comparison.
But the animations in RDR2 being extremely complex, doesn't make Pokémon's animations simple. Playing the 3D pokémon games, you can easily noticed how detailed all animations are, and how they behave and other small details that make you think "Huh, look at that!". Even more so in PokemonAmie/Refresh, which brought a whole new set of animations for each Pokémon. I also think the brunt of the animation work for SwSh is also going into the rumored (but practically confirmed) camping feature. Some people might not care about that as much as battle animations, for instance, but the work is there.
Not to say battle animations haven't been touched up, either. We've seen a few different ones.

 

[Euler007]

quality models look good in 1080p.... who would have figured....
not sure why emulation is even referenced for comparison, particularly Citra which barely works with the Pokemon games. Said models look great in a model viewer like Blender either way so I really don't know where you're going with that.

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We're both saying that the existing model look great and could be used (i.e. not an excuse for cutting pokemons). Others are saying that the work required to include all pokemon would involve inconsistent quality, and I'm saying that the quality of what we've seen so far (excluding the pokemon models) is very inconsistent (and not just that famous tree).

 

[PokémonSpears]

This is why people see you as defending Game Freak.

Their argument only has 'merit' in the sense that it's probably true they can't complete animation work in time for an October release with the staff/budget they have right now. But...that's why so much current criticism is directly focused on that! You absolutely can throw money at stuff like this - I have no idea why you would say otherwise. But the idea that the developers of a game in the most successful media property on the planet can't or won't increase their staff or budget to get the job done properly just isn't acceptable.

Other, less successful developers/publishers do it. Game Freak doesn't, and there's only one real conclusion you can draw from that: corporate greed. Whether on the part of them or The Pokemon Company. Either way, people defending that is why the word shill gets thrown around so much.

Edit: To be clearer - they have openly said that they almost made the decision to remove Pokemon during the development of Sun and Moon. Which means that they knew this was even more likely for Sword and Shield. You're right that they might not be able to throw money at it right now to have everything ready at launch (although even that seems questionable), but...they knew this was coming. And did nothing to prepare for it. So there's no excuse.

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I just wanted to say that I agree with most of your comments after this.

I think anyone that expects them to somehow include all the Pokémon they most likely decided to cut since the beginning of the development, three years ago or so, by the release date, is pretty delusional. Even the ones expecting some kind of future patch. I mean, the patch is technically possible, but I think the chances are nonexistent considering the history of Pokémon games, at least since the 3DS (they can prove me wrong anytime, I won't get mad :) )

I think it's obvious with the deadline they already set, Game Freak, The Pokémon Company, or any party that is involved in these decisions, they won't be able to give the fans what they demand. I don't even think they want to give us that in the first place. They took that decision, for whatever reasons, and I seriously see very unlikely that they're going back with this for future games. If they decided they couldn't include all the 809 Pokémon + Gen VIII new ones now, I just don't see how they're gonna change their minds for Gen IX when there's even more creatures, unless there's a complete change in the directives or people in charge of these decisions and the development of the games and come forward with that specific task in mind: to bring back all the Pokémon.

 

[MarcelRguez]

I just wanted to say that I agree with most of your comments after this.

I think anyone that expects them to somehow include all the Pokémon they most likely decided to cut since the beginning of the development, three years ago or so, by the release date, is pretty delusional. Even the ones expecting some kind of future patch. I mean, the patch is technically possible, but I think the chances are nonexistent considering the history of Pokémon games, at least since the 3DS (they can prove me wrong anytime, I won't get mad :) )

I think it's obvious with the deadline they already set, Game Freak, The Pokémon Company, or any party that is involved in these decisions, they won't be able to give the fans what they demand. I don't even think they want to give us that in the first place. They took that decision, for whatever reasons, and I seriously see very unlikely that they're going back with this for future games. If they decided they couldn't include all the 809 Pokémon + Gen VIII new ones now, I just don't see how they're gonna change their minds for Gen IX when there's even more creatures, unless there's a complete change in the directives or people in charge of these decisions and the development of the games and come forward with that specific task in mind: to bring back all the Pokémon.

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It sucks to say, but I agree with this, word by word. Unless they're outright lying and are trying to save face by saying it was their decision when in reality the cut was the consequence of some major fuckup, I don't see them going back on this.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

But what can possibly compete with Pokémon?

I've thought about this a lot. At the end of the day, I want better Pokémon, not alternatives to it.

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In a way, I'd say that the mobile gacha space has many very successful Pkm-esque titles. But yeh, they don't really occupy the same space as GFs Pkm games on Nintendo hardware and well, are much more games as a service and gacha for better(?) and definitely worse. And really, the financial incentive is to go with just that for just about every studio.

Hell, even GF might have the financial incentive to go with that, even if the games remain on just the switch etc. but here their technical inadequacies and slow progress might be a blessing in disguise for once.

 

[perfectchaos007]

When the list of Pokémon available in Sword and Shield are leaked I'm Not looking forward to the inevitable "We demand ______ to be put in the game" petitions. There will be a petition for each and every one of the excluded ones

 

[NHarmonic.]

You know it's fine if they don't deliver a revolutionary thing for the franchise in this new switch jump, but they being unable to deal with the minimum stuff is baffling.

I can already smell the lack of any meaningful post game, and the glowing reviews ignoring every issues because "it's pokemon on switch!!1!1, who cares about quality right??"

 

[DrROBschiz]

I just wanted to say that I agree with most of your comments after this.

I think anyone that expects them to somehow include all the Pokémon they most likely decided to cut since the beginning of the development, three years ago or so, by the release date, is pretty delusional. Even the ones expecting some kind of future patch. I mean, the patch is technically possible, but I think the chances are nonexistent considering the history of Pokémon games, at least since the 3DS (they can prove me wrong anytime, I won't get mad :) )

I think it's obvious with the deadline they already set, Game Freak, The Pokémon Company, or any party that is involved in these decisions, they won't be able to give the fans what they demand. I don't even think they want to give us that in the first place. They took that decision, for whatever reasons, and I seriously see very unlikely that they're going back with this for future games. If they decided they couldn't include all the 809 Pokémon + Gen VIII new ones now, I just don't see how they're gonna change their minds for Gen IX when there's even more creatures, unless there's a complete change in the directives or people in charge of these decisions and the development of the games and come forward with that specific task in mind: to bring back all the Pokémon.

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Yup

Speaking from a realistic perspective they wanted to pull up the anchor

And supporting 1000+ pokemon is an anchor at least in their minds. I'm not gonna argue that solutions aren't possible or viable but thats neither here nor there

They don't want to explore "solutions" because they don't want this problem anymore

It could be as simple as they want to start over, do all new, go different directions with the main series and let the legacy stuff exist in side games or remakes

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

When the list of Pokémon available in Sword and Shield are leaked I'm Not looking forward to the inevitable "We demand ______ to be put in the game" petitions. There will be a petition for each and every one of the excluded ones

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The current Dexit 'petition' is thankfully all-encompassing.

On the plus side, more border control memes once the list is known.

 

[Maple]

I can already smell the lack of any meaningful post game, and the glowing reviews ignoring every issues because "it's pokemon on switch!!1!1, who cares about quality right??"

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There's too much justifiable negative energy surrounding Sword and Shield at this point to result in "glowing reviews". If Game Freak continues to ignore this then I gaurantee you there will be a predominance of negative and one star reviews for these games.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

There's too much justifiable negative energy surrounding Sword and Shield at this point to result in "glowing reviews". If Game Freak continues to ignore this then I gaurantee you there will be a predominance of negative and one star reviews for these games.

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From user reviews, sure. Mainstream reviews will be the usual relatively high ratings.

 

[Saoshyant]

When the list of Pokémon available in Sword and Shield are leaked I'm Not looking forward to the inevitable "We demand ______ to be put in the game" petitions. There will be a petition for each and every one of the excluded ones

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There certainly will be, Ron Paul. It's happening. I will be there day one to make the "we demand Mareanie to be put in the game" petition.

 

[Serebii]

If someone breaks this footage down and finds the animations are slightly different will you own up to spreading "misinformation" as you've accused others saying "sword and shield uses the same animations as SuMo" of doing?

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Gladly, yes.

Yes as he had to do with things in the past already. Nice attempt at a gotcha though.

It's ridiculous the shit Joe gets over all of this. I'm sure it's just jealousy really.

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Irony is that I agree that this is a bad idea and that they could get around it easily by making it so those Pokémon can't Dynamax or be in the Camp so they don't have to do those animations.

However, people have got so crazy about me quashing misinformation that it is unreal.

 

[Ragnarok Flames]

What they need is competition.

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yokai tried, digimon tried. medabots.

if it isnt pokemon people point their noses in the air and walk away

 

[Yata]

The lack of competition is most likely because; first of all, making a competent and innovative game with the amount of Pokemon this franchise had before Sword and Shield (and arguably even now) is pretty insane without feeling sloppy and taking risks. Especially with some of the open-world requests, I am never going to deny that. The second one is that Pokemon will always win because nostalgia/competitive for adults and word of mouth from kids. Pokemon is just way too big of a franchise to compete, honestly.

The games have done the bare minimun over the years but most stuff that was removed or simplified was elements the majority of players, the casual fanbase; either don't care or don't notice. Literally, the games STILL sell, that's the reason why they are so mediocre or/and barebones in content. Doesn't help every little detail or subjective improvement gets shot down by several fans because it's not the gen 1 formula. Seeing people complain about fricking
dialogue/cutscenes in a single-player RPG is laughable to me. Like; I know the writing is hot garbage and maybe the pacing is even worse (haven't played SuMo) but at least they tried to do something.

To me the state of the mainline games in this franchise is just sad. Glad some fans are finally seeing it, at least.

 

[Phendrana]

The thing that stings about this the most is that I was really excited to bring all my Pokemon into the HD era.

A proper home console Pokemon game is something most fans have been looking forward to for damn near two decades. And disregarding how underwhelmed I am with the presentation of Sword & Shield in general - the idea of bringing in Pokemon I've had from as far back as my Ruby adventure sixteen years ago would have been strong enough to overlook any other shortcomings.

But instead we get some real monkey's paw shit, and it's just completely killed my interest. If the decision to limit the Pokemon was made next generation, I think I would be far more okay with it - because at least I'd have a home-base on a somewhat modern system to keep all of my Pokemon. But now they're stuck on the 3DS, or I scatter them across multiple games.

It sucks. :/

 

[Sou Da]

I think I would be far more okay with it - because at least I'd have a home-base on a somewhat modern system to keep all of my Pokemon.

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Your phone?

 

[WrenchNinja]

When the list of Pokémon available in Sword and Shield are leaked I'm Not looking forward to the inevitable "We demand ______ to be put in the game" petitions. There will be a petition for each and every one of the excluded ones

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I'll forever give them crap for bringing Goldeen and Seaking back for the 8th gen in a row

 

[NHarmonic.]

There's too much justifiable negative energy surrounding Sword and Shield at this point to result in "glowing reviews". If Game Freak continues to ignore this then I gaurantee you there will be a predominance of negative and one star reviews for these games.

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Don't count on major sites, though. The fandom attacked (and continues to do so, mind you) IGN for the infamous ORAS review, there's no way Sw and Sh won't generate the same thing, and i doubt they'll risk it again.

 

[Phendrana]

Your phone?

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Haha. I'm open to being surprised by Home, but I can't see myself paying an eternal subscription fee for it.

 

[Kaffeemann]

They're most certainly not shallow. I don't even know where to begin with that.

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Here's how most battles against AI trainers play out:
AI Trainer sends in their only Pokemon. Most of the time my starting Pokemon can beat it by using the strongest move a couple of times. If it isn't strong enough I swap to a Pokemon that's strong against the enemy and use its strongest moves. That's it.
Gym leaders require some thought but most of the game doesn't.

 

[Yata]

Here's how most battles against AI trainers play out:
AI Trainer sends in their only Pokemon. Most of the time my starting Pokemon can beat it by using the strongest move a couple of times. If it isn't strong enough I swap to a Pokemon that's strong against the enemy and use its strongest moves. That's it.
Gym leaders require some thought but most of the game doesn't.

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You don't have to sugarcoat it. Pokemon games require no thought at all.

Pretty sure when people mention the combat being deep they mean competitive and battling against other players.

 

[Serebii]

You don't have to sugarcoat it. Pokemon games require no thought at all.

Pretty sure when people mention the combat being deep they mean competitive and battling against other players.

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Correct, to get through the main game you don't. However, to say the entire battle system is shallow is flawed.

The AI sucks. That's the issue, not the system is shallow

 

[Saoshyant]

 

[Deleted member 48897]

Correct, to get through the main game you don't. However, to say the entire battle system is shallow is flawed.

The AI sucks. That's the issue, not the system is shallow

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I think part of the issue is that a lot of the weirder strategies you can find online are harder to replicate in the main story mode due to their use of, say, held items that either get swapped over to the other team or consumed in the process of battling. It's hard, if not nearly impossible, to find opportunities to practice with held items that aren't the battle tower, and that takes forever to really mount a substantial challenge on the level of what serious online battlers would throw at you.

 

[Yata]

Correct, to get through the main game you don't. However, to say the entire battle system is shallow is flawed.

The AI sucks. That's the issue, not the system is shallow

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I mean, I would argue the system is incredibly flawed because it requires very especific conditions to actually work at all. If Pokemon games had amazing AI and teams the games would still be a complete cakewalk 80% of the time seeing how it's set up.

 

[Serebii]

I mean, I would argue the system is incredibly flawed because it requires very especific conditions to actually work at all. If Pokemon games had amazing AI and teams the games would still be a complete cakewalk 80% of the time seeing how it's set up.

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Well yes, it's meant to be a game to complete that kids can complete.

Go to the post-game battle facilities if you want to see the depth of the battle system without going online.

 

[IzzyRX]

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This is both terrible and amazing.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

Well yes, it's meant to be a game to complete that kids can complete.

Go to the post-game battle facilities if you want to see the depth of the battle system without going online.

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Or just a difficulty setting finally. A common feature in games since several decades.

 

[Saoshyant]

This is both terrible and amazing.

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Yes, yes it is. The purest form of art and satire.

 

[udivision]

It's probably best not to treat Pokemon like a typical JRPG as far as the campaign goes. Few games you can go into confident you'll never lose, partly due to knowing the entire system before you start the game.

 

[AbsoluteZ3R0]

Well yes, it's meant to be a game to complete that kids can complete.

Go to the post-game battle facilities if you want to see the depth of the battle system without going online.

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They could a difficulty option or improve the A.I. The game is made for kids is an unacceptable excuse.

They removed battle frontier for far inferior system like mansion or tree, which also don't require much strategy as long as you have good team because the A.I still sucks.

Pokemon has a deep battle system but too bad you only see that when you do competitive battle.

 

[Sou Da]

They could a difficulty option or improve the A.I. The game is made for kids is an unacceptable excuse.

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Follow the conversation a bit, the guy he was responding to said that even if the game had amazing AI and teams the game would still be a cakewalk.

 

[Weebos]

It's wild to me that Masuda still hasn't tweeted since the announcement. A week ago I would have attributed it to just personal variance, but it definitely seems like he is avoiding the backlash.

I'm curious if that will help or hurt the cause.

 

[Yata]

Well yes, it's meant to be a game to complete that kids can complete.

Go to the post-game battle facilities if you want to see the depth of the battle system without going online.

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I'll admit I have barely any experience with Pokemon online aside from a few battles and the stuff I have read online; still, from what I have heard, single Pokemon battles are very unfair because of certain moves; training EVs are mandatory and you need to do a lot of research and busy work to actually have a fair chance at all. That is what I meant by certain conditions. If this is supposed to be deep and especially fun/good it's all subjective to the player, though.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

It's a real shame that GF just doesn't use the strengths of the battle system that certainly do exist.

Pokémon Reborn which not only features proper lineups but even vastly improved AI by now has all the fun challenge I'll never get from GF.

Now, even a hard difficulty doesn't need to be anywhere near as challenging as PKM Reborn but it sure would be nice to have sth where the AI isn't just a big dumdum with mostly 1-2 Pkm per trainer.

 

[PokémonSpears]

The thing that stings about this the most is that I was really excited to bring all my Pokemon into the HD era.

A proper home console Pokemon game is something most fans have been looking forward to for damn near two decades. And disregarding how underwhelmed I am with the presentation of Sword & Shield in general - the idea of bringing in Pokemon I've had from as far back as my Ruby adventure sixteen years ago would have been strong enough to overlook any other shortcomings.

But instead we get some real monkey's paw shit, and it's just completely killed my interest. If the decision to limit the Pokemon was made next generation, I think I would be far more okay with it - because at least I'd have a home-base on a somewhat modern system to keep all of my Pokemon. But now they're stuck on the 3DS, or I scatter them across multiple games.

It sucks. :/

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Yes, yes and yes.

I'll forever give them crap for bringing Goldeen and Seaking back for the 8th gen in a row

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I love them though

but I wish you could do more with them than just fish them.

 

[NHarmonic.]

Well yes, it's meant to be a game to complete that kids can complete.

Go to the post-game battle facilities if you want to see the depth of the battle system without going online.

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Oh the extensive post game facilities, like the battle frontier or PWC that are nowhere to be found since the ds?

 

[PokémonSpears]

if it isnt pokemon people point their noses in the air and walk away

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I couldn't help but think of Snivy lol

 

[Serebii]

I agree a difficulty setting would be nice

I'll admit I have barely any experience with Pokemon online aside from a few battles and the stuff I have read online; still, from what I have heard, single Pokemon battles are very unfair because of certain moves; training EVs are mandatory and you need to do a lot of research and busy work to actually have a fair chance at all. That is what I meant by certain conditions. If this is supposed to be deep and especially fun/good it's all subjective to the player, though.

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So basically you need to learn the battle system to be good and learn the depth about the battle system?

Oh the extensive post game facilities, like the battle frontier or PWC that are nowhere to be found since the ds?

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Or the Battle Tower, Battle Maison, Battle Tree, Battle Agency

Nice try.

 

[Yata]

So basically you need to learn the battle system to be good and learn the depth about the battle system?

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Basically you need to grind and play with a smaller pool of Pokemon; movesets and most importantly rulesets to have any type of deep or strategic battle at all.

 

[PancakeFlip]

yokai tried, digimon tried. medabots.

if it isnt pokemon people point their noses in the air and walk away

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If the designs can be comparable to Pokemon its a much harder battle.

 

[Siege_Almighty]

Basically you need to grind and play with a smaller pool of Pokemon; movesets and most importantly rulesets to have any type of deep or strategic battle at all.

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I mean, if you're chasing the meta and only using top tiers, that's kinda on you. There's plenty of room to experiment with lesser used pokemon and find success. And the grind is vastly overstated

 

[Saoshyant]

I couldn't help but think of Snivy lol

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Ah, good ol' Smugleaf. Thankfully he's now preserved in Pokemon Go, if nowhere else. Thanks, Masuda.