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Noel

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
147
Connecticut
Phew, finally beat the pacifist ending. I've made it to the gate a couple of times with various characters, but being able to use Saffron's Chronos weapon to dodge the flurry of attacks from the boss was absolutely necessary. I've found gravitating towards defense stacking through things like Undershirt, Saigon Armor, and Giant Armor worked out really well this run. I'm looking forward to unlocking a character that can utilize poison or kunais really well. It seems like there are a ton of artifacts that have synergy there.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,133
Yeah, I'm having fun with this. Waking up to a key in the inbox for this and Stoneshard in the last few weeks has been nice.
 

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
Asia
Just played it on Steam.

The visual flow is superb, and the music...I mean it sounds like it was licensed directly from Hideaki Kobayashi or something, because it sounds exactly like I'm playing Phantasy Star Online. Amazing. Great work @steel_plus!!

That being said...I've done 3 runs now (always dying at boss 2) and still have no idea what's going on. Just huge amounts of UI everywhere, and the game speed is somewhere between fast and incredibly fast. Like, 5x faster than my memories of Battle Network. Tutorials pointing at things I can't possibly see because the whole screen is a bullet hell. I don't know how else to put it except to say it's Slay the Spire on fast forward. Mana? What is mana? I just kinda hit the buttons a lot. (Watching on youtube makes it clear what Mana "is", but it is no way noticeable during gameplay).

The flow and music will keep me coming back some more, but I do hope that maybe there is a tutorial redo or a "light" UI mode in the cards. Is it more playable on the small Switch screen?

Also, minor point, but running at 120hz, game is clearly faster than a few of the youtube videos I've seen. Not sure if that's a game bug in going at a higher FPS or just videos running at a low framerate (or maybe just my perception is not in overdrive while watching a clip?)
 

Sardello

Member
Oct 30, 2017
305
Well... I definitely need a guide for this game. Any advise of a good guide or video tutorial / walkthrough?

It's a very charming game, but for sure it's far from being immediate.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
The visual flow is superb, and the music...I mean it sounds like it was licensed directly from Hideaki Kobayashi or something, because it sounds exactly like I'm playing Phantasy Star Online. Amazing. Great work @steel_plus!!

That being said...I've done 3 runs now (always dying at boss 2) and still have no idea what's going on. Just huge amounts of UI everywhere, and the game speed is somewhere between fast and incredibly fast. Like, 5x faster than my memories of Battle Network. Tutorials pointing at things I can't possibly see because the whole screen is a bullet hell. I don't know how else to put it except to say it's Slay the Spire on fast forward. Mana? What is mana? I just kinda hit the buttons a lot. (Watching on youtube makes it clear what Mana "is", but it is no way noticeable during gameplay).

The flow and music will keep me coming back some more, but I do hope that maybe there is a tutorial redo or a "light" UI mode in the cards. Is it more playable on the small Switch screen?
There's 3 things that make it faster than what you remember it from BN:
- it's geared towards BN upgraded bosses/superbosses/post game content, not regular BN. Watch a V3 or Bass fight (or just anything on BN3 post game scenario, really) and you'll see what I mean
- there's no turns
- there's no invincibility when you or the enemy gets hit, which gave you an instant to think/reposition for free. Here everything is taking damage all the time

But yeah, the readability of the screen sucks, for a lot of reasons, from lack of animation feedback, lack of contrast, bad information architecture on the UI, bad UI decisions in general (you can see the money visual effect coming to your character, but you can't see how much money you have or won until the battle is over, which makes pretty hard to know how much money you get from a regular fight vs saving a money hostage and how much bonus you get from flawless victories, to name a single functional problem).

Super agreed on the soundtrack!

Well... I definitely need a guide for this game. Any advise of a good guide or video tutorial / walkthrough?
This video explains the overall game flow and basic mechanics, and I made a bullet point write up on stats and keywords with a couple of examples last page (repeating some stuff from the video). If there's anything else you need help with, just ask!
 

Sardello

Member
Oct 30, 2017
305
Wish this deal was for the switch too. :-(
It is for switch too. I have StS and I got my discount
There's 3 things that make it faster than what you remember it from BN:
- it's geared towards BN upgraded bosses/superbosses/post game content, not regular BN. Watch a V3 or Bass fight (or just anything on BN3 post game scenario, really) and you'll see what I mean
- there's no turns
- there's no invincibility when you or the enemy gets hit, which gave you an instant to think/reposition for free. Here everything is taking damage all the time

But yeah, the readability of the screen sucks, for a lot of reasons, from lack of animation feedback, lack of contrast, bad information architecture on the UI, bad UI decisions in general (you can see the money visual effect coming to your character, but you can't see how much money you have or won until the battle is over, which makes pretty hard to know how much money you get from a regular fight vs saving a money hostage and how much bonus you get from flawless victories, to name a single functional problem).

Super agreed on the soundtrack!


This video explains the overall game flow and basic mechanics, and I made a bullet point write up on stats and keywords with a couple of examples last page (repeating some stuff from the video). If there's anything else you need help with, just ask!
Thanks a lot. I have to study and then I'll come back for sure wit some questions
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,149
Chicago
So is this like playing a shooter and at the same time playing slay the spire?

I'm a huge slay the spire fan but I don't think I could handle that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
So is this like playing a shooter and at the same time playing slay the spire?

I'm a huge slay the spire fan but I don't think I could handle that.
Not *exactly* since there's no card play like "Use X to discard Y to activate Z to recycle X" nor StS energy management and similar stuff. It has StS structure/loop and a couple of mechanics (ascensions, artifacts) and obviously the randomized drafting, but think about it more about an action game first, with your attacks coming in a random order and can be played two at once, than StS/a card game with real time combat. Said attacks, of course do have synergy between them, so you want to rotate them in a certain way, and for that you use the card game structure of preparing a folder to find a build and fine tune your chances of getting what you need.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,199
Dark Space
Just played my first run, went in completely blind as I always do with roguelike/lites.

Holy crap this is a cool game, and holy crap I am going to need to watch that beginner's guide.

Managed to get to the boss and she freaking wrecked me on some bullet hell shit.

I also probably made the worst card decisions possible.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
Violette is really cool and probably my safest character yet (more than Reva lol), but no way I am good enough to keep the DPS going with her from tier 4 forward.
 

brooklynb_jp

Member
Jan 8, 2019
834
There's one attack from Violette that seems to be undodgeable? Am I missing something. She shoots a line that's 4 lines long across the screen
 

Brakke

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,798
There's one attack from Violette that seems to be undodgeable? Am I missing something. She shoots a line that's 4 lines long across the screen

Before that shot, she shouts "dance for me" and then paints some squares green. If you do the "dance" by standing on the green squares, they give you enough shield to block the hit.
 
OP
OP
TheDanimal

TheDanimal

победитель победитель куриный ужин
Member
Oct 25, 2017
854
One awesome thing that's in the game-it pays attention to what controller you're using! I can customize my controls for if I'm using joy cons or the snes controller I have, or whichever controller I'd want to use.
 

Mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,555
Just played it on Steam.

The visual flow is superb, and the music...I mean it sounds like it was licensed directly from Hideaki Kobayashi or something, because it sounds exactly like I'm playing Phantasy Star Online. Amazing. Great work @steel_plus!!

That being said...I've done 3 runs now (always dying at boss 2) and still have no idea what's going on. Just huge amounts of UI everywhere, and the game speed is somewhere between fast and incredibly fast. Like, 5x faster than my memories of Battle Network. Tutorials pointing at things I can't possibly see because the whole screen is a bullet hell. I don't know how else to put it except to say it's Slay the Spire on fast forward. Mana? What is mana? I just kinda hit the buttons a lot. (Watching on youtube makes it clear what Mana "is", but it is no way noticeable during gameplay).

The flow and music will keep me coming back some more, but I do hope that maybe there is a tutorial redo or a "light" UI mode in the cards. Is it more playable on the small Switch screen?

Also, minor point, but running at 120hz, game is clearly faster than a few of the youtube videos I've seen. Not sure if that's a game bug in going at a higher FPS or just videos running at a low framerate (or maybe just my perception is not in overdrive while watching a clip?)
The sound effects in general remind me of PSO in a good way.
 

Soupbones

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,278
How do MedKits work? I thought they activate like Second Soul and give you 250HP at the time of death, but apparently they don't. -_-

I stocked up on a few MedKits during a run, and they didn't seem to do anything - being that Artifacts are passive, how do these work?

EDIT - NEVERMIND. I can't beleive I didn't notice it heals you right away at pickup. Why bother showing the icon next to your other artifacts tho???
 

Miker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,013
Waiting on Steam worshop modders to add MMBN stuff, then might jump on that version.
 

Deleted member 8644

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
975
Won my first run (killed everyone, including shopkeeper) by cheesing it, I have no idea how you fight the last boss otherwise. I had basically infinite shield. It also seemed like a build I could easily force every single time, but where's the fun in that?
 

brooklynb_jp

Member
Jan 8, 2019
834
Just beat it for the first time. I've found shield to be necessary, honestly. There's just too much happening on screen to be able to live otherwise

There's one thing I'm confused about. Is it possible to beat the boss you face after you spare everyone without
being forced to revive? Whenever I got her to 1 health for the first time, she would come back to life and destroy me. I only defeated her because of Saffron's special ability.
 

Ashgar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
246
I did not realize this game was named after the pin set from TWEWY until the developer mentioned it.

Pin_222.png
Pin_223.png
Pin_224.png
Pin_225.png
Pin_226.png


I do wish unlocking characters was a little easier. I really liked playing as Reva but I haven't managed to beat her as a later boss yet.
 
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Soupbones

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,278
Won my first run (killed everyone, including shopkeeper) by cheesing it, I have no idea how you fight the last boss otherwise. I had basically infinite shield. It also seemed like a build I could easily force every single time, but where's the fun in that?
Please share how to do that - I'm getting annihilated. Bosses are way to hard!
 

LProtagonist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
7,570
Okay, once you realize that you can pick a focus for your deck and not killing bosses has them aid you later... it becomes much more doable. Got to the final boss and lost.
 

medinaria

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,533
just finished beating it for the first time (chrono saffron, didn't kill any of the bosses), this game's extremely fun but my hands hurt lol

I actually had very little shield, but I did have a couple of extremely stupidly upgraded attacks that I leaned on the whole time - double tap, bow snipe w/ bonus damage and chance to hit twice, and double railgun. coupled them with a few fragile generators and that was pretty much it - I believe I hit the last boss for something like 750 damage in one hit with the double-hitting bow snipe. which was nice.

also, as someone who doesn't generally like this type of music, this game's soundtrack is fantastic
 

Deleted member 8644

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
975
Please share how to do that - I'm getting annihilated. Bosses are way to hard!
For what it's worth unless you're very lucky this won't help you until probably 4th or 5th boss, and you might actually be weaker for a while, but what I did was pick regular Saffron, grab the flow spell that costs 1 mana, deals 40 damage, gains one flow and goes back to your deck if you have flow, remove every other spell from my deck and spent all my upgrades on the flow spell, extremely important was the "gain shield" upgrade. The idea was to also get mana reduction on it, but I couldn't get it so I managed by finding the relic that gives 0.5 mana every time you activate flow spells.
 

donkey

Sumo Digital Dev
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
4,851
Ugh, got to the final boss with Gunner. Got past the gate and was not ready for the shenanigans waiting for me. At least my runs are going consistently further now and I unlocked the bullethell iteration of Gunner. Also, I encountered another instance of the final boss(?) without the gate appearing. Guessing that enemy just ends up becoming what you fight after the gate?
 

marcus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
328
What is a good build for Shiso? It seems like you'd want root enemies and finish them off work his gun.
 

brooklynb_jp

Member
Jan 8, 2019
834
Ugh, got to the final boss with Gunner. Got past the gate and was not ready for the shenanigans waiting for me. At least my runs are going consistently further now and I unlocked the bullethell iteration of Gunner. Also, I encountered another instance of the final boss(?) without the gate appearing. Guessing that enemy just ends up becoming what you fight after the gate?
As far as I can tell, your decisions about sparing bosses affects what you fight at the end. Might be worth trying different stuff. Maybe going to the dark world affects it too!
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
From what I understand (have not played in a couple days), there's 3 routes:
- kill everybody
- spare everybody
- kill one or two specific characters (Terra?) and spare the rest

Each one has a different final level.
 

Brakke

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,798
Had a good run just now. Took the ice witch, spec'd Phalanx and immediately pulled Shield Throw. Love to get that cheap 200 damage while her temporary shield is up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
1.1 is out, with both QoL tweaks, buffs, nerfs and bugfixes:
--Spells--

All spells with Gain 1 Flow : "Gain 1->2 Flow"

Flow was too hard to keep going unless you had only Flow spells. Gaining 2 Flow per spell gives you a nice amount of wiggle room for other synergies. This should also help Flow artifacts see more use outside of Flow builds.

Earth Prayer
Gain Flow: 3->4


Rock Cycle
Gain Flow: 1->0
Damage: 40->60

Rock Cycle was a bit too spammable infinitely. This still lets you spam Rock Cycle with the right build, just not forever.


Waterfall
Damage: 80->50
Gain Flow: 1->0
Anchor: No->Yes
(also added a green glow when you have flow)

Waterfall did way too much damage without any risk. Adding anchor gives some tradeoff for the terrible terrible damage it can deal.

Hopefully this helps make Flow more accessible and gives you more freedom with it. I still want it to be a powerful build if you have all Flow cards, but now there's more thought in balancing your stacks with Rock Cycle and Waterfall.


Kunai
Anchor: No->Yes

Kunais are a bit too strong right now. Watchlist.


Mine
Duration: 10->12

This should give you a little more time to activate Mine


Sera Cannon
Cost: 2->3

Sera Cannon can be a little too powerful without too much risk. Watchlist.


Shield Beam
Damage: 10->20
Shield on Hit: 10->20
Shots: 4->2
Time Between Shots: 0.11s->0.2s

Shield Beam could get a little too powerful with shield upgrades and hitting multiple targets. The shot reduction also makes it feel a bit snappier


--Weapons--

Slightly increased the cooldown for Bullet Hell Gunner's weapons. I want it to be more of a relaxed gameplay option, but their dps was a bit too high to experience the game.


--Artifacts--

Beret

(Shopkeeper starting item)
Health Dropped: 90%->80%
Shopkeeper was a bit too resilient to getting hit.


Luna
Rarity: 0->2
Pet MaxHP increase per battle: 40->25


--Other--

Co-op
Base mana regen: x1->x2
Allowing both players to cast spells at a normal frequency should make co-op more fun and hopefully a bit more rewarding for the difficulty it adds.


Modding
Added a 'Mods' folder to StreamingAssets
Made updates use the 'YourMods' folder
Increased font size of mod descriptions
Made mods disable achievements
Fixed mods dissappearing after updating a mod


Quality of Life
Added a short hold for Skipping rewards, Upgrading, and Removing
Adjusted health values for ending bosses
Max Mana pact is now temporary during battle
Reva's assist is more reliable
Artifacts like Uranium that trigger constantly during battle will no longer affect the player while downed
Reduced the frequency of attacks in some mid-lategame enemies
Reva will unlock automatically at lvl 6
Saffron Chrono kit will unlock automatically at lvl: 4->2
Added 32bit windows support
JTang redid Terra's default outfit


--Bugfixes--
Achievements can no longer be achieved via preview
The library can now be searched for keywords in all languages
You can now click on shop buttons at all resolutions
Fixed a softlock in the normal ending loop
Generated spells like kunais will now be correctly destroyed in-between battles
You can now get skins by meeting achievement requirements again if you didn't reach the unlocks pane before
Playtime calculations should now be accurate when saving/loading
Adjusted size of boss hitboxes in normal ending
Upgrades for spells will no longer double when saving/loading
Fixed one of the ending cutscenes that was accidentally cut short
Character outfits will no longer show up unlocked multiple times
Pacts can now be removed (but not hell passes)


Minor
Fixed startup loading background not showing correctly
Fixed startup without Steam connection getting stuck
Fixed clicking the back button on the streaming pane
Fixed naming issue for Reva - Cyber skin
Preview characters no longer move during anchor spells
Rocks can no longer get artifact buffs in previews
Votes can no longer show up on display cards
Music no longer stops if the preview character dies
Stats will now update immediately after buying a new artifact
Flow can now be searched in the library


--Ending Notes--
The past few days have been super hectic! I'm really happy you all seem to be enjoying the game in the reviews and recommending it to your friends. I wholeheartedly appreciate that.

Coming soon:
Helping slower players where Saffron Chrono isn't enough
Making the late game more strategic but still difficult
Bugfixes
Accessibility options (like a toggle for button Holds)
 

Brakke

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,798
(use her weapon to launch temp shield in the last column of the enemy field and not lose the 200 shield)

Yep. I did that a few times. A little fiddly to use unless your target is a stationary enemy. Took me a few battles to realize that's why she has that self-damage spell, too.
 

brooklynb_jp

Member
Jan 8, 2019
834
I also found that if you shield throw right before the line reaches the enemy and depletes your shield 200 HP, you can get your shield back
That one I cannot get the timing down.
Zenith? You should press it first, then dash. The tricky part then becomes confusing which spells should be activated before dashing and which should be activated after