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imbarkus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
point me to the laws outlining this fraud

What about this?

If you do this, and anyone knows about it or blabs about it, or much less this thread gets highly visible, it undermines the argument gay male couples have that they should be allowed to be married just like a man and a woman.

Everyone will be all "See it will mostly be abused by scammers!" when you could honestly make this same arrangement with some female friend, couldn't you?

So, go do that instead, and undermine the far-less-fragile public trust in the institution of straight marriage.
Something tells me gay marriage may have enough challenges in the future once fuckhead gets done stuffing the supreme court.
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,333
Fraud would be like trying to do all of this stuff without being legally married. Insurance companies have strict rules on +1 situations, and the only way to include another adult on your taxes when you're not married is for them to be your dependent.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
gay marriage wasn't fucking legalized for two cishet men to get married what the fuck is wrong with you

My stance has always, since day 1, to be let people do what they want to do, provided it's not hurting anybody.

The idea that two people should only ever get married if they are gay, or straight, is some complete bullshit. How about you just let people live their lives? This isn't being considered as a goof or insult to gay people or straight people or anything.

This is someone who I love as a brother, who I want to help in life, and vice versa. The system -- nothing more than a social construct in the US -- has a method for us to do that. Call it a "domestic partnership" if the term marriage is sacred to you.
 
Oct 27, 2017
956
I know someone from grad school who did this during undergrad. Apparently he was out of state and needed a quick way to qualify as in-state for reduced tuition so ended up in civil union or something of the sort with his (presumably) straight friend. I'm assuming they legally separated or something sometime later as he eventually found his future wife who was a classmate of ours.
Didn't ask about how it the logistics worked though.
 

Star-Lord

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,860
gay marriage wasn't fucking legalized for two cishet men to get married what the fuck is wrong with you

Preach! Sorry OP this idea is awful, once again you do what you want but how can you justify this whole situation for cut breaks and benefits. Also good luck explaining it to family.
"He's my bro and I love him so we got married but it's an open marriage plus I'm not bi."
 

imbarkus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
Except for the fact that none of my female friends have offered? He offered it to me, I did not float the idea to him.

So go find two amenable female friends, one for each of you, and make the offer to them.
Undermine trust in the institution of marriage that doesn't already have an uphill battle. The man/woman version.
 

dennett316

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,990
Blackpool, UK
I know a lot of people in this topic are freaking out or thinking this is a troll topic, but seriously, that is honestly my mindset. Fuck these "sacred" institutions, live your life to the fullest, and dance like nobody is watching.
Yeah...fuck all that nonsense! Why shouldn't you make a mockery of the rights that gay people fought for YEARS over just to make some money off the back of insurance fraud? Dance the dance of life!!!!

For the record, Chuck and Larry were bad people, don't be like Chuck and Larry.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Yeah...fuck all that nonsense! Why shouldn't you make a mockery of the rights that gay people fought for YEARS over just to make some money off the back of insurance fraud? Dance the dance of life!!!!

For the record, Chuck and Larry were bad people, don't be like Chuck and Larry.
Yeah nothing quite like holding an institution that discriminated against gays for hundreds of years as sacred.
 

jb1234

Very low key
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,251
My question is whether you're willing to risk your friendship because this could get really messy, very quickly.

(Especially if he has feelings for you.)
 

Sybil

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,642
I thought, who would think this would be a good idea

but i remember that my friend's parents divorced because they thought that would net them more $ for their kids' FAFSA. so
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Yeah...fuck all that nonsense! Why shouldn't you make a mockery of the rights that gay people fought for YEARS over just to make some money off the back of insurance fraud? Dance the dance of life!!!!

For the record, Chuck and Larry were bad people, don't be like Chuck and Larry.

This is not mocking the love two gay people can feel for each other at all. No more than any other sham marriage mocks people who are in love. This is not about making fun of gay people, this is about, you know, my actual health care situation being fucking garbage, and my friend offering compassion to help. A real, actual, serious problem in my world. I'm a small business owner, I don't get insurance from a big company. Insurance is actually a really big deal for me. I have an $8000 deductible, for example. I am, essentially, locked out of ever going to the hospital or doctor.

Chiding me for actually considering this offer because some bigot shithead elsewhere might thumb his nose at a group of people he already thumbs his nose at isn't compelling to me. Especially when I very explicitly support the rights of the marginalized.

Being like, "go ask a female friend to help!"

The women I know generally don't have insurance like this. My friend is big in the oil industry. He has very good insurance, the kind i'll never be able to get for myself. And he's a bleeding heart liberal, card carrying democrat.
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,970
Most people marry for shallow reasons anyway so why not? It's not really something sacred. As many people have proven around the world.
A divorce is normal as well.
Do what you feel is right.
Many people marry because of benefits.

Marriage doesn't mean shit. A true commitment to another person is in your mind. People can be in love for life without ever being married.
People can be married for life without ever being in love.

edit: do consider the negatives as well though.
 
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Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,888
Not living together seems like it could land you some hot water but otherwise I don't see how this is any riskier than any other marriage. My mother and step dad live away from each other as one had to get a job somewhere else.

Also while there are mostly good critiques in here there's a handful of oddly conservative takes in here about the "purity" of it all.
 

vodalus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,220
CT
Big fan of Krejlooc, enjoy your posts.

While in theory the idea has its advantages, on a practical level, it's not worth the financial encumberance. Tons of things can come up in life that a prenuptial agreement can't account for, and costs down the road could be considerable. Credit, retirement benefits, and earnings all have serious consequences after marriage. The juice is not worth the squeeze here.
 

Deleted member 8005

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
126
We had some really bad threads on era during the years.But I think this is the winner.

OT:Don't be fucking stupid.
 

Patsy

Member
Jun 7, 2019
1,283
Germany
Meh, the healthcare system in the US is a mess. I'd caution against this idea too but it's not offensive.

It's pretty offensive to me, but what do I know, I'm just a lesbian who'll most likely never be able to get married to another woman and maybe has to actually consider a sham marriage so my family won't disown me, right?

I get why they'd do it and I understand that the US is incredibly fucked up, but that doesn't make me feel less uncomfortable.
 

BasilZero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,500
Omni
I don't know if anyone mentioned this but today is hump day , we aren't even in the weekend yet we got a thread like this...amazing
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
It's pretty offensive to me, but what do I know, I'm just a lesbian who'll most likely never be able to get married to another woman and maybe has to actually consider a sham marriage so my family won't disown me, right?

I get why they'd do it and I understand that the US is incredibly fucked up, but that doesn't make me feel less uncomfortable.

Perhaps you missed it, but just yesterday I got hit with a $10k medical bill. This won't help me fix that problem, but the health care situation in the US is legitimately a nightmare. What happens if I get cancer, or need surgery, or one of a million likely scenarios? I'm flying blind right now. Someone said go on obamacare -- I already am. That's my insurance that has an $8k deductible. Do you know how incredibly dangerous it is to live knowing if you have any sort of health problem, you're completely fucked?

This is actually something serious. And our situations are not at odds. I want you to marry the woman you love. I want society to accept you. I have gay cousins and uncles. I love them very much.

This is what the awful system in the US does to people. Please do not get mad at me, I'm not trying to insult you or your situation. Get mad at the system, because it's putting the screw to lots of people.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
What? Marriage is a civil contract done for the benefits of every kind and easier documentation.

Marrying not for love it's not fucking fraud, the hell you are talking about? Lol
i feel like i am in the twilight zone.

two straight guys marrying each other to claim tax benefits and get on each other's health care plans is marriage fraud. there is no other way to put it.

even if it was two gay guys or a straight male and straight female marrying each other just for health insurance would constitute health care fraud.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
It's pretty offensive to me, but what do I know, I'm just a lesbian who'll most likely never be able to get married to another woman and maybe has to actually consider a sham marriage so my family won't disown me, right?

I get why they'd do it and I understand that the US is incredibly fucked up, but that doesn't make me feel less uncomfortable.
That's not an issue with marriage rights though, the issue there lies with your bigoted family
 

Akela

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,851
Real talk, I do love my friends very much. There is a close circle of friends I have that, without hesitation, I'll say I love them all, and they would say the exact same back to me. I have two friends, for example, that I've known since kindergarten. I have one friend that I've known since before kindergarten. When I become really good friends with people, they become family to me.

I've lost very good friends before, there's nothing to be gained from being to stifled emotionally to express your love to someone. I tell my friends all the time that they are important to me, and that I love them. Better to say it while they're around, than to hold it in till their funeral.


I think that our society has a lot of pretty arbitrary separations between different kinds of love between friends, couples and family when in reality things are a lot more complicated.

I seams like males especially are discouraged by society from being too close to their friends or even considering their friendship to be a kind of love at all, like people are so worried that others will see them as being "gay" (because in their eyes the only kind of love is sexual love) that they would rather place a wall around their friendships instead of opening up about how they really feel about them.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Well, I'd assume we'd get divorced, I'd stop being on his insurance, he'd stop getting tax breaks. Our finances wouldn't actually ever join, it's not like we'd be living together, forming join bank accounts, etc. Basically nothing more than a legal arrangement.

Let me just lay down a little truth for you about the tax benefits of marriage:

If you file two separate returns, there are none. You're basically just like two unmarried individuals filing their taxes.

The only way you get any tax benefit is that, if filing jointly, you combine your incomes, exemptions, etc. and your tax bracket cutoffs. Effectively, this means that if both parties are working and make similar amounts, there is no tax benefit. There may even be a tax penalty -- many people in this situation do file separately.

The only way you get a tax benefit is if one party is making a lot more money than the other, like, say, a single-income household living together. In this situation, the exemptions and bracket cutoffs of the second party, who is making less income, are used to reduce the first party's tax liability. Simply put, the primary purpose of the system is to allow one person to work, one person to stay home being a homemaker, and still get the tax benefits as if they were both working.

So, firstly, there would be some financial combination. Otherwise there's no tax benefit. One of you is going to be filing returns for both of you, and they're going to need your W-2s, etc., to do that. Then you guys will also be paying your bill, or getting your refund, together, and you'll have to figure out how to divide that up fairly. (Keep in mind that your respective tax withholdings will also be combined, and they're unlikely to be equal amounts.) And unless there's a great disparity in income between you two, there will be no real savings at all. This leaves aside all of the other issues and concerns with being married -- this is just specifically about one of the primary benefits you're trying to get. You will not get it the way you're envisioning this setup.

The reason people don't do this is not because it's fraud (how would an insurance company prove you got married for benefits? most people who would do this aren't dumb enough to post proof of their intention to defraud the insurance company on the internet), it's because it doesn't actually work well and you probably won't get the benefits you're expecting.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,071
This is not mocking the love two gay people can feel for each other at all. No more than any other sham marriage mocks people who are in love. This is not about making fun of gay people, this is about, you know, my actual health care situation being fucking garbage, and my friend offering compassion to help. A real, actual, serious problem in my world. I'm a small business owner, I don't get insurance from a big company. Insurance is actually a really big deal for me. I have an $8000 deductible, for example. I am, essentially, locked out of ever going to the hospital or doctor.

Chiding me for actually considering this offer because some bigot shithead elsewhere might thumb his nose at a group of people he already thumbs his nose at isn't compelling to me. Especially when I very explicitly support the rights of the marginalized.

Being like, "go ask a female friend to help!"

The women I know generally don't have insurance like this. My friend is big in the oil industry. He has very good insurance, the kind i'll never be able to get for myself. And he's a bleeding heart liberal, card carrying democrat.
I know you don't mean it to come off offensively, but this whole thing just rubs me the wrong way. Like fuck, you know how long we had to fight to even be allowed to get married, and you're doing it just for monetary reasons? Come on, that's not cool.

This just sounds like a really bad idea all-around.
 

PC98_Audi

Producer @ Limited Run Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
262
Raleigh
To be honest, I would marry Krejlooc too. Our wedding waltz would be The Great Bath from Turrican and our honeymoon would be on the Amiga.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,316
I know someone from grad school who did this during undergrad. Apparently he was out of state and needed a quick way to qualify as in-state for reduced tuition so ended up in civil union or something of the sort with his (presumably) straight friend. I'm assuming they legally separated or something sometime later as he eventually found his future wife who was a classmate of ours.
Didn't ask about how it the logistics worked though.

You can qualify for in-state tuition just by marrying someone who is in state? I thought you had to be a resident for x number of years or something?
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 12790

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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
I know you don't mean it to come off offensively, but this whole thing just rubs me the wrong way. Like fuck, you know how long we had to fight to even be allowed to get married.

This just sounds like a really bad idea all-around.

It rubs me the wrong way too. You guys think I don't recognize the social stigma here? Or that I am completely oblivious to the plight of gay people?

But, you know, the situation dictates the behavior. It rubs me the wrong way a lot that my friend has to offer something like this so I can afford actual, real healthcare. What can I do about it? Turn my nose up at health care so I won't be perceived as something I don't even express to begin with?

Again, the advice offered -- just marry some woman instead -- isn't really an option. The entire reason this came up is because I was complaining to my friend about my insurance situation -- something on my mind after staring down a huge out of pocket expense -- and he said, "there's a way I can share mine with you."

Understand my plight. If I can figure out a way to get actual, real health insurance without being patronizing, believe me, I would.
 

greepoman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,976
Since my wife and I were both working before we got married I went back and looked at the tax difference between the year before we got married...about a whopping $500. And we had a big discrepancy in income so theoretically a good case. Also we ended up staying on respective insurances because the family plan was like 3x the cost of one of our individual plans.

And another big thing is what happens upon death or near death? By default you will get each other's stuff and if you want it different you'll have to hire lawyers and write up a will, living will, etc. Same with if you're incapacitated...if he's not calling the shots you probably need it legally documented you don't want him deciding if you live or die.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Since my wife and I were both working before we got married I went back and looked at the tax difference between the year before we got married...about a whopping $500. And we had a big discrepancy in income so theoretically a good case. Also we ended up staying on respective insurances because the family plan was like 3x the cost of one of our individual plans.

And another big thing is what happens upon death or near death? By default you will get each other's stuff and if you want it different you'll have to hire lawyers and write up a will, living will, etc. Same with if you're incapacitated...if he's not calling the shots you probably need it legally documented you don't want him deciding if you live or die.

I already have a living will made up, I did one several years ago when I set up to have my body donated to science through a local university.
 
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