Agreed. Give me a full party I get actual control over, instead of six hundred mediocre hack and slash games with crummy AI partners.
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Old time JRPG fans - what's your current stance on its current direction?
- Thread starter hwarang
- Start date
Agreed. Give me a full party I get actual control over, instead of six hundred mediocre hack and slash games with crummy AI partners.
I can't do it anymore, they suck. I miss the good ole days. I sold my copy of Xenoblade 2 once I created the robot thing, I couldn't Stomach it. The last Jrpg I completed was Dragon quest XI.
Thanks! It's a big lineup, but one thing that bums the hell out of me is that there is literally one original franchise in there. Coincidentally that also happens to be the only one made by non-Japanese devs.
I'm so glad to find other people who miss turn based combat, makes me feel validated. I really needed that today. Also, I thoroughly disliked the combat in the FF7r. In sure I'll get dogpiled on for having a wrong opinion because "it's the natural evolution of ATB" or whatever. The graphics, music, character design and everything else were amazing, but I just hated the combat. I don't want to mash buttons; give me time bars and menus. The only way I'd ever play this game is if somebody mods classic ATB in on PC (no, the classic mode built in is not the same). Even then, I'm a bit nervous about the story additions based on what I have read.
Also a new FF Tactics with DoS2 combat as mentioned earlier (sorry, forgot who said it) would be GOAT contender for me.
Also a new FF Tactics with DoS2 combat as mentioned earlier (sorry, forgot who said it) would be GOAT contender for me.
No, I freaking hated the combat in VIIR too. It was tedious and, in spite of being super cinematic, I never felt like I could enjoy it because I was worried about the next action. I dropped it down to easy after the Rufus battle.
I know many people have gotten platinums, but I could just not Git Gud.
While the padding was the most egregious aspect of VIIR to me, that battle system broke my spirit.
VIIR combat did take a while to click for me, but once it did it became one of my favorite games in the last decade.
It can be hard to tell the ATB part of your brain to work together with the action part of your brain.
It can be hard to tell the ATB part of your brain to work together with the action part of your brain.
It's rough to be a FF fan. The series hasn't made a main series game I liked without reservations in almost 20 years. The new direction with FFXV and VII remake is the worst yet.
Other than that though I've seen Nintendo step up and really make some wonderful RPGs, SE other ports/remakes and DQ have been great lately, lots of cool indies coming out. It's been a good couple of years.
Other than that though I've seen Nintendo step up and really make some wonderful RPGs, SE other ports/remakes and DQ have been great lately, lots of cool indies coming out. It's been a good couple of years.
Last good jrpg game I played was Chrono Trigger.
Ff6, lunar silver star story complete, thousand arms, chrono chross - Haven't really seen any jrpg game that even comes close to these ones. I was hopeful for Octopath and bravely default but they fell short very quick for me.
Maybe it's just my personal preference, but i would play a jrpg if the story is promising, interesting chars with a good build up and the typical zero to hero type of main chars are my go to for the genre.
And i don't even understand why some people mention the witcher - wtf does witcher have to do with a typical 90's jrpg...meh
Ff6, lunar silver star story complete, thousand arms, chrono chross - Haven't really seen any jrpg game that even comes close to these ones. I was hopeful for Octopath and bravely default but they fell short very quick for me.
Maybe it's just my personal preference, but i would play a jrpg if the story is promising, interesting chars with a good build up and the typical zero to hero type of main chars are my go to for the genre.
And i don't even understand why some people mention the witcher - wtf does witcher have to do with a typical 90's jrpg...meh
Everybody's talking about PSX-era JRPGs but honestly I see that as the point where JRPGs started to go off the rails. I know that's when Final Fantasy started to get popular in the west, but that franchise since the PSX era has been the flagship of JRPGs being obsessed with what feels like style over substance.
Once they got their hands on optical media it feels like JRPG devs relied more and more on big cut scenes to tell their stories. The stories themselves felt like they thought having lots of crazy terminology and plot twists automatically made them smart. JRPGs from the cartridge era, and even some that stick to old-school design principles, tell most of the story in the gameplay perspective and focus more on just playing the game and exploring the world. The stories themselves tend to be less crazy but still deep.
Basically I'm starting to realize I like Dragon Quest-style JRPGs more than Final Fantasy-style JRPGs, if the distinction is even that big. I feel like it is.
Once they got their hands on optical media it feels like JRPG devs relied more and more on big cut scenes to tell their stories. The stories themselves felt like they thought having lots of crazy terminology and plot twists automatically made them smart. JRPGs from the cartridge era, and even some that stick to old-school design principles, tell most of the story in the gameplay perspective and focus more on just playing the game and exploring the world. The stories themselves tend to be less crazy but still deep.
Basically I'm starting to realize I like Dragon Quest-style JRPGs more than Final Fantasy-style JRPGs, if the distinction is even that big. I feel like it is.
In my mind old school RPG still means anything pre-FFVII, before FMV, before hours of anime voice acting.
I sorta feel like turn based combat works better with simpler games. When JRPGs started to get all cinematic and super serious (no more chibi characters) I started to feel a disconnect.
Mother 3 is the only post-FFVII JRPG I've really enjoyed (and I absolutely loved it).
None of which to say games that came out after FFVII aren't good, they just weren't for me anymore. So I can sympathize with PSX/PS2-era JRPG fans who don't like that most new JRPGs adopting real time (or real time-ish) combat.
I sorta feel like turn based combat works better with simpler games. When JRPGs started to get all cinematic and super serious (no more chibi characters) I started to feel a disconnect.
Mother 3 is the only post-FFVII JRPG I've really enjoyed (and I absolutely loved it).
None of which to say games that came out after FFVII aren't good, they just weren't for me anymore. So I can sympathize with PSX/PS2-era JRPG fans who don't like that most new JRPGs adopting real time (or real time-ish) combat.
There's less variation then there's ever been in the genre, I'd be interested how you define better.
The current JRPG scene and Japanese games in general is so much better than the PS360 era.
Can't complain.
Can't complain.
I think that's a great way to summarise the combat. It felt weird that I needed to be mashing a button to build up the ATB bar, while also needing to be ready to dodge or whatever. The combat LOOKs super pretty, I just didn't enjoy doing it.
I think I might just grab the original PS1 FF games on Switch while they're on sale. The lack of SNES FF, Chrono Trigger and FF Tactics on Switch is criminal.
I think my biggest issue with the current state of the genre is the general lack of ambition.
Square is the only one keeping up with the rest of the world when it comes to visuals. But even they are not doing enough to innovate further on the open world formula (sim elements, quest structure, NPC interaction, etc). The rest of the industry are simply digging in on proven formulas and have seemingly zero intentions to grow their audience.
And while I'm able to tolerate the anime tropes and childish depiction of romance, they are most definitely not helping the genre expand. This really struck me when my niece mentioned that she regretted buying XB2 as it was 'embarassingly bad'. The genre really needs to stop pandering to horny 16 yr old boys and starting figuring out what the modern general audience wants.
Square is the only one keeping up with the rest of the world when it comes to visuals. But even they are not doing enough to innovate further on the open world formula (sim elements, quest structure, NPC interaction, etc). The rest of the industry are simply digging in on proven formulas and have seemingly zero intentions to grow their audience.
And while I'm able to tolerate the anime tropes and childish depiction of romance, they are most definitely not helping the genre expand. This really struck me when my niece mentioned that she regretted buying XB2 as it was 'embarassingly bad'. The genre really needs to stop pandering to horny 16 yr old boys and starting figuring out what the modern general audience wants.
For some reason a lot of posts itt is all about how we almost don't have turn based jrpgs anymore but this a complete hyperbole lol
Okay that back then turn based to action ratio was like 70/30 and nowadays it changed a lot but we still have lots of turn based stuff. Yakuza LAD just released, we have Trails, Persona, SMT in general, Dragon Quest, Bravely stuff, a LoL turn based Jrpg from the Battle Chasers dev coming, Octopath Traveller, Eiyuden Chronicles coming, lots of indies...i feel like for a lot of people Jrpgs are basically only FF with this line of thinking.
We still have more action based and hybrid stuff nowadays but the ratio is more at 60/40 towards action, i think. It's hardly the turn based Jrpgs demise some people are painting.
Okay that back then turn based to action ratio was like 70/30 and nowadays it changed a lot but we still have lots of turn based stuff. Yakuza LAD just released, we have Trails, Persona, SMT in general, Dragon Quest, Bravely stuff, a LoL turn based Jrpg from the Battle Chasers dev coming, Octopath Traveller, Eiyuden Chronicles coming, lots of indies...i feel like for a lot of people Jrpgs are basically only FF with this line of thinking.
We still have more action based and hybrid stuff nowadays but the ratio is more at 60/40 towards action, i think. It's hardly the turn based Jrpgs demise some people are painting.
When it comes to big, AAA RPGs on consoles, turn-based is pretty much dead. The mainstream western console audience has always preferred action games.
The main problem I see is that AAA games almost never really tried real-time party-based systems, or ideally real-time-with-pause combat with parties. I think that's the best of both worlds if you're doing a big AAA game but the only studio that's really been trying it at that production level is BioWare. People love Mass Effect and Dragon Age but no other big RPGs really tried to copy the combat systems of those games, they all instead went in the Bethesda direction.
Really though, Final Fantasy XII should've indicated the future for big-budget console RPGs. The real-time system and gambits were controversial at the time but that's pretty much where BioWare games ended up.
The main problem I see is that AAA games almost never really tried real-time party-based systems, or ideally real-time-with-pause combat with parties. I think that's the best of both worlds if you're doing a big AAA game but the only studio that's really been trying it at that production level is BioWare. People love Mass Effect and Dragon Age but no other big RPGs really tried to copy the combat systems of those games, they all instead went in the Bethesda direction.
Really though, Final Fantasy XII should've indicated the future for big-budget console RPGs. The real-time system and gambits were controversial at the time but that's pretty much where BioWare games ended up.
There's still a whole ton of highlights for turn-based systems, like Scarlet Grace. DRPGs, which people seem to lump in with JRPGs, have turn-bases systems almost exclusively.
So, I took a look at my shelf at just my PS1 games, and I'm struggling to see what you mean.
While Squaresoft's offering at the time certainly fit in to what you mentioned I'm looking at:
Wild Arms 1, 2, Suikoden 1, 2, BoF 3, 4, Tales of Destiny/Eternia, Vandal Hearts...
I feel like those game were very much in the same vein as their 16 bit predecessors and that's not even scratching the surface of what the console had--to say nothing of Saturn's library.
In fact, aside from Squaresoft's output, all I can really think from the era in the genre that seemed to really take the style element to the hilt was Legend of Dragoon.
To me, it's the following era is where things started to go off the rails.
*Waits for someone from the 8-bit era to school us both.*
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There aren't nearly as many quality ones but every now and then we get ones that blow me away like FF7R and Persona 5.
It's more hit and miss than I feel it used to be, but I also used to be much more tolerant of anime tropes when I was younger. I'm still not completely cut off from that styling but it has to work much harder to get through to me now, and I think some games manage to do that, or get pretty creative with subverting those tropes. There's enough hits to keep me paying attention to the genre but I do feel like I try to distance myself from it more.
The numbers were by the Eiyuden developers during their kickstarter when they were estimating the budget for their game.
You can try to downplay the amount of assets in OT, but the sprite sheets don't lie (other than ambiguous standards on when to duplicate the left-right sprites on the sheet).
Here's one character/class combination for OT:
Here's a colelction for FF5.Nintendo Switch - Octopath Traveler - Olberic (Thief) - The Spriters Resource
Nintendo Switch - Octopath Traveler - Olberic (Thief) - The #1 source for video game sprites on the internet!www.spriters-resource.com
It is about 60 sprites per character/job in OT, vs. 10 sprites in FF5SNES - Final Fantasy 5 (JPN) - Bartz Klauser - The Spriters Resource
SNES - Final Fantasy 5 (JPN) - Bartz Klauser - The #1 source for video game sprites on the internet!
Here's a comparison of the world map exploration / cutscene sprites:
Nintendo Switch - Octopath Traveler - Ophilia (Cleric / Base) - The Spriters Resource
Nintendo Switch - Octopath Traveler - Ophilia (Cleric / Base) - The #1 source for video game sprites on the internet!Around 180 per each of the 8 characters in OT, vs. 27 for each of the 5 characters in FF5.SNES - Final Fantasy 5 (JPN) - Bartz Klauser - The Spriters Resource
SNES - Final Fantasy 5 (JPN) - Bartz Klauser - The #1 source for video game sprites on the internet!
This is almost every single non-main character NPC in the entirety of FF5:
Meanwhile, one NPC in OT:SNES - Final Fantasy 5 (JPN) - NPCs (Overworld) - The Spriters Resource
SNES - Final Fantasy 5 (JPN) - NPCs (Overworld) - The #1 source for video game sprites on the internet!
The spriters resource doesn't even have the full sets for OT, with there being a few hundred village NPCs that have full sprite sheets, because everybody can be fought or recruited.Nintendo Switch - Octopath Traveler - Z'aanta - The Spriters Resource
Nintendo Switch - Octopath Traveler - Z'aanta - The #1 source for video game sprites on the internet!
Each of the 8 regions has a totally different set of NPCs and village terrains, filling 24 towns, which is far more than nearly any of S/E games of that era. It all adds up quickly multiplicatively as there's more regions, more unique characters per region, and more frames of animation per character in those regions. There's an overall diversity in NPCs is that fundamentally unrivaled by any game from the 16-bit era that it looks like at first glance. For battle sprites, having more distinct animations, like swinging different weapon types, or idle-idle, or waiting-idle, and giving each of those animations where a previous sprite sufficed in the past.Reddit - Dive into anything
www.reddit.com
That people don't even recognize how much more elaborate the sprite-work is in Octopath Traveler than actual 16-bit games were speaks to how much people remember those older games through rose-tinted glasses.
From looking at those sprite sheets, while there's certainly a lot of sprites, I feel like the complexity may be overstated when compared to older games. Storage limitations for something like FF5 (both ram and cartridge), being an SNES game, means it simply couldn't have 6 frames of animation for one attack/action/what have you. Also, some of those sequences don't seem... that different, sprite to sprite. How much added effort is it to design an animation with 6 frames, as compared to 2? I honestly don't know myself, maybe werezompire can weigh in.
I'm not at all saying that 100x the frames of animation is 100x the amount of effort, especially given better development tools and technical limitations. What I am saying is that Octopath isn't remotely a "dirt cheap" game like he labeled it as, and a total failure to recognize the scale of Octopath's assets relative to the classics of the 16-bit era really does show how much of a tremendous tilt there is towards the older games based off of nostalgia.
People see pixel art and dismiss the game as cheap and not worth of full price. This goes back to the relentless complaining about OT's price prior to the release and when the PC was released.
Generally they are ok right now. Not as good as back in PS1 days, but much improved from PS3 days.
I have come to accept that we will never have PS1 days of JRPGs in terms of number of good/great JRPGs pumped out in short space of time.
There are things that have improved as well. Graphics (obviously with improvement in technology), more voiced dialogues, and combat system in general has been better than PS1 days for me. Music has been consistently good as well for the genre.
AAA big scale JRPGs have been quite good for me in general, so I hope more smaller AA scale JRPGs that I like comes out.
I have come to accept that we will never have PS1 days of JRPGs in terms of number of good/great JRPGs pumped out in short space of time.
There are things that have improved as well. Graphics (obviously with improvement in technology), more voiced dialogues, and combat system in general has been better than PS1 days for me. Music has been consistently good as well for the genre.
AAA big scale JRPGs have been quite good for me in general, so I hope more smaller AA scale JRPGs that I like comes out.
Current stance is no fucking thank you. And I'll take this opportunity to cape for Bug Fables, a better not-Jrpg than most I've seen mentioned here. Made by just 2 devs from Panama, great first effort!
Edit: Also available on Switch, PS4 and XB1. Get yours today!
Edit: Also available on Switch, PS4 and XB1. Get yours today!
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There are a few good ones, but many of the are doubling down on tropes I find uninteresting, or worse, and fan service. The last few ones I have played all suffer from everyone either wanting to fuck the MC or be their best friend. Reminds me of the episodes from older scifi shows where something happens and the the main guy just becomes irresistible to women. Except in this case instead of being one dumb episode the creators decided wouldn't it be great if the whole series was like that.
I wish I could go back to the days when my biggest complaint was that the MC, and often friends, looked like they just got out of a photo shoot.
I wish I could go back to the days when my biggest complaint was that the MC, and often friends, looked like they just got out of a photo shoot.
The thing is has Square-Enix honestly tried to make a AAA budget turned based game without some caveat attached? Many folks constantly say FF can't be mainstream and turned based at the same time, but there is no empirical evidence that new modern FF can't be turned based and sell very well, simply because Square simply hasn't made an attempt since last gen, baring remaster releases.
I honestly think the lack of AAA turn based games is less about about a preference for action in how games play and more a hunger for dynamic "cinematic" visuals. It's harder to make a sizzle reel when you've got cursors scrolling through menus and such.
I guess this why stuff like Octopath Traveller and Bravely Default II exist. At least Dragon Quest is still consistent in that regard, which brings up another point. If Persona 5 Royal and Dragon Quest XI can both be turned based and have a 90+ Metascore, then clearly Turn Based combat is not the antithesis of making a sellable game with high production values.
I'll still abide by the statement people keep using making excuses that a game can't be both AAA and Turn Based at the same time and the only reason this continues to be parroted is because Square-Enix has not actually tried to do so for a very, very long time.
Would be nice for another developer to step and actually prove the case that mega big budget traditional RPG can do both extremely well critically and commercially without some sort of caveat. The last couple of FF's feel like they are heavily focus tested and targeting not even the genres intended audience.
Square will probably never learn the lesson that change for the sake of change is pointless and sometimes sticking to a tried and proven formula actually works. I don't think they even have the fortitude to actually go against the grain. For all the talk about the FF series constantly trying to change from title to title, Well hell an actual honest to goodness turned based FF would actually be very surprising for a change. At least compared to it has been for the past 15 years at least.
While not AAA titles, At least I got Eiyuden Chronicle and Sea of Stars to look forward to.
I just wish there were more of them. Everyone's at each other's throats for action vs. turn based or anime trappings vs. not, but if they just made the pie bigger it feels like people could just have more fun in their corners.
I agree with these posts.
I just want to say that the most fun RPG I've played this year is Trials of Mana. Wonderful game with an excellent soundtrack.
Damn. Console versions of this game are also 30% off right now, but the base price is $24.99 instead of $19.99. What's up with the price difference?
Damn. Console versions of this game are also 30% off right now, but the base price is $24.99 instead of $19.99. What's up with the price difference?
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If there were an election for the president of videogames, I would vote for you.
Too true
There's plenty of room for skirts and politics. Development costs are the killer; it seems those with less pedigree tend to either shy away from the genre or go the Idea Factory route and attempt to flood the market with recycled material.
Just take those old CDs off the shelf
I'll sit and grind on 'em by myself
Today's switch ain't got the same soul
I like that old time X and O
Don't try to take me to a harem
You'll never even get me out on the floor
In ten turns I'm gonna Flee to the door
I like them old cartridges and lore
Old time dicey rolls
The kinda pixels that sooth the soul
I play remasters of the days of old
That old time farming gold
Won't go watch a loli anime
I'd rather hear some midi and password save
There's only one way to get me to play a 300 hour videogame wherein you search for obscure relics upon a giant map with assistance only by way of cryptic clues given by pallet swapped NPCs and riddled with insane plot twists...
it's that old time rock and r- shit
I'll sit and grind on 'em by myself
Today's switch ain't got the same soul
I like that old time X and O
Don't try to take me to a harem
You'll never even get me out on the floor
In ten turns I'm gonna Flee to the door
I like them old cartridges and lore
Old time dicey rolls
The kinda pixels that sooth the soul
I play remasters of the days of old
That old time farming gold
Won't go watch a loli anime
I'd rather hear some midi and password save
There's only one way to get me to play a 300 hour videogame wherein you search for obscure relics upon a giant map with assistance only by way of cryptic clues given by pallet swapped NPCs and riddled with insane plot twists...
it's that old time rock and r- shit
Art and story wise, I don't blame anime for what JRPGs have become. I blame crappy visual novels and light novels for making bad clichés more acceptable and overused. Gacha RPGs are this in their most distilled form.
Gameplay wise, I think console RPGs are getting somewhat better thanks to stiff competition from games like WoW and Oblivion. These usurped JRPGs with their scope, openness and accessibility. Since then games like Xenoblade and Demons Souls started pulling the genre's weight.
Gameplay wise, I think console RPGs are getting somewhat better thanks to stiff competition from games like WoW and Oblivion. These usurped JRPGs with their scope, openness and accessibility. Since then games like Xenoblade and Demons Souls started pulling the genre's weight.
Xenoblade is what I envisioned as the evolution of Jrpg's. But those are rare and even Xenoblade itself is far from perfect (so much filler and unnecessary mechanics). That said, I miss traditional rpg's. DQXI was such a joy to play, but other than that I don't know many decently budgeted rpg's that are content with that style. Most games want to try new and different things which can work out, but most of the time ends up not being much fun.
The games are better. Thats how I define better.
And I think theres the same amount of variation to me.
I just think western console users have been generally more pre-disposed towards directly controlling an avatar in real time. At least that's where the North American console gaming industry's marketing engine has pushed things over the last 30-odd years. The most popular games in that sector have always been action games and sports games. Strategy games, sim games, adventure games, turn-based RGPs, or anything where you primarily mess with menus and don't directly control a character have always had a harder time in the NA console space compared to PC gaming, handheld gaming, mobile, and the Japanese console market.
If you look back through the history of JRPG sales in the west, Final Fantasy and Pokemon are pretty much the only turn-based ones that have been able to sell mainstream numbers. Most everything else hasn't seen a massive sales increase since the SNES era. In general, any turn-based game on consoles is going to be a niche genre as far as NA is concerned.
Games like Persona, Dragon Quest, XCOM, and ROTK have reached a healthy tier below FF and Pokemon in the west over the past console generation -- they can have decent graphics and sell enough to keep going, but FFXIII and XV were each able to reach sales comparable to the successful western AAA games of their respective eras, and indeed sell more and faster than classic FF games. Maybe FF could keep up those sales with a turn-based game, but it's likely the only existing IP that could do that.
I think the disconnect here is that I'm not comparing it to 16-bit classics. I'm comparing it to games I've worked on because I know exactly how much work those involve. Doing a retro-style game now requires more assets than an actual retro-style game because people view actual retro-style games with rose-colored glasses. e.g. if you do a SNES-style game, people will think it's NES-style, do a PS1-style 2D game and people will think it's SNES-style, etc.
I took a look at one of the battle sprite sheets & one of the map sheets from Octopath that you linked to.
There's about 100 main character battle sheets (8 characters x 12 jobs). The one I looked at was 14.3kb in PNG format (I chose PNG since that's the format we do our assets in). There's also a more complex map sprite sheet for each character. The one I looked at was 59.4kb for just the actual sprite.
In Cosmic Star Heroine, the main character has 54 sprite sheets that totaled nearly 3.5MBs in size with over 200 animation sequences (admittedly, some of those are duplicates or single-frame sequences). We have 11 playable characters. We have 33 folders for enemy sprite sheets with each folder generally having over 1MB of PNG files (all of our enemies are animated and most are animated in 4 directions since battles happen directly on maps). We also have an NPC folder with 93 sprite sheets totalling about 3.4MBs.
Enemies in Octopath generally just have a simple idle animation and don't have separate animations for each attack. Both enemies and allies only face one direction (unlike JRPGs with a CT style battle system where you need separate animations for each direction).
If we were paying standard industry salaries to everyone involved, instead of just working for royalties, Cosmic Star Heroine would have probably cost between $1-$1.5 million dollars (2 people working full-time for 3.5-4 years, plus 2 people working part-time). I don't know if Octopath has more or less spritework than our game, but it at least seems like we're both in the same ballpark. Octopath Traveler has a massive soundtrack (CSH's is big at over an hour, but OT's soundtrack is over 3), I imagine their mix of simple 3D structures + 2D tiles made maps harder to build then our pure 2D maps (although we've done experiments since then on 2.5D map creation and we may do it in the future), and their general programming/engine stuff is no doubt more complex than ours (although a lot of the effects that they're using are built-in to engines like Unity & Unreal already). My guess would be that Octopath Traveler's budget was in the $5-$9 million range. That's firmly in the Big Indie budget range (I'm guessing Hades cost about that much, based on team size & development time) and not a AA budget. I would be really surprised if they spent more than that.
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I'm not old enough to have any strong attachment to the 80s or 90s, but overall I like where JRPGs have been from about 2015 up to now. 2007-2014 largely sucked IMO.
- I think it's far and away the best time to be interested in Japanese-made RPGs from a combat design perspective if you're into trying a bunch of new/different things. Since 2015 I've played turn-based games like Dragon Quest XI, Persona 5, and SaGa Scarlet Grace, "stylish" action games like Nier Automata, Tales of Berseria, and Kingdom Hearts 3, and Final Fantasy VII offers something with a mix of command-based combat and action combat. Final Fantasy XIV offers a JRPG-like experience with MMO gameplay trappings, and From offers somewhat slower, challenging action combat. And this is just the stuff that immediately came to mind. I do think strategy-focused games have been kinda weak, doesn't seem like there's much interest in investing in them besides the two or three devs who already make them and some indies.
- I'll be the odd one out and say I think they're better written on average. I think the characters are more fleshed out and they more consistently and coherently adhere to themes. I generally haven't been impressed by the writing in a large majority of 90s-era JRPGs, early 2000s games started taking steps to improve but some go too far to introduce depth to the plot and get pretty messy. I do think there could be improvements to the script editing, direction, and presentation though, which makes scenes that should be ok a bit awkward. Sometimes it's a cost/time issue, other times things are almost like...intentionally weird because of overly long dialogue, odd animations, and poor camera work and I'm just like "ehhhh this ain't it".
- I wish they were better on scope. There's barely anything in the past couple of years that really captures the feeling of 80s/90s/early 2000s JRPG adventures around the world, Dragon Quest XI is the last one that's gotten close for me. Xenoblade should be there in theory but it's...missing something to me and I can't really place what it is.
- I'd like to see more of them go deeper into non-linear narration and exploration and I understand that it'd be a big shift for most of these games, so I think that'd be a good opportunity to introduce more new IPs. I'd like more games like SaGa that actively experiment with table-top RPG "create your own adventure" elements.
- I think it's far and away the best time to be interested in Japanese-made RPGs from a combat design perspective if you're into trying a bunch of new/different things. Since 2015 I've played turn-based games like Dragon Quest XI, Persona 5, and SaGa Scarlet Grace, "stylish" action games like Nier Automata, Tales of Berseria, and Kingdom Hearts 3, and Final Fantasy VII offers something with a mix of command-based combat and action combat. Final Fantasy XIV offers a JRPG-like experience with MMO gameplay trappings, and From offers somewhat slower, challenging action combat. And this is just the stuff that immediately came to mind. I do think strategy-focused games have been kinda weak, doesn't seem like there's much interest in investing in them besides the two or three devs who already make them and some indies.
- I'll be the odd one out and say I think they're better written on average. I think the characters are more fleshed out and they more consistently and coherently adhere to themes. I generally haven't been impressed by the writing in a large majority of 90s-era JRPGs, early 2000s games started taking steps to improve but some go too far to introduce depth to the plot and get pretty messy. I do think there could be improvements to the script editing, direction, and presentation though, which makes scenes that should be ok a bit awkward. Sometimes it's a cost/time issue, other times things are almost like...intentionally weird because of overly long dialogue, odd animations, and poor camera work and I'm just like "ehhhh this ain't it".
- I wish they were better on scope. There's barely anything in the past couple of years that really captures the feeling of 80s/90s/early 2000s JRPG adventures around the world, Dragon Quest XI is the last one that's gotten close for me. Xenoblade should be there in theory but it's...missing something to me and I can't really place what it is.
- I'd like to see more of them go deeper into non-linear narration and exploration and I understand that it'd be a big shift for most of these games, so I think that'd be a good opportunity to introduce more new IPs. I'd like more games like SaGa that actively experiment with table-top RPG "create your own adventure" elements.
I still really love the genre and I feel it's in a better state now than it was during the 360 era.
I loved a lot of games that came out in the past few years such as Persona 5, Dragon Quest XI, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Final Fantasy VII remake, various Yakuza games etc.
That said, I could certainly do with less sexual pandering in these games. I love the genre despite that stuff not because of it. In a lot of jrpgs it undermines the characters for some shallow pandering which ultimately becomes a detriment to the overall quality. Less of that, please.
Similarily to that, I don't really need to see harem/dating mechanics in the game. I don't mind romance but I'd much rather have a central romance be part of the overall plot instead of having every female character be available for the player character to date (which also prevents them from having romantic relationships with characters other than the MC which is another issue).
I loved a lot of games that came out in the past few years such as Persona 5, Dragon Quest XI, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Final Fantasy VII remake, various Yakuza games etc.
That said, I could certainly do with less sexual pandering in these games. I love the genre despite that stuff not because of it. In a lot of jrpgs it undermines the characters for some shallow pandering which ultimately becomes a detriment to the overall quality. Less of that, please.
Similarily to that, I don't really need to see harem/dating mechanics in the game. I don't mind romance but I'd much rather have a central romance be part of the overall plot instead of having every female character be available for the player character to date (which also prevents them from having romantic relationships with characters other than the MC which is another issue).
thanks to emergence of souls games japanese rpgs are doing better than ever
series like final fantasy are doing better than in a long while with novel core gameplay instead of the stagnation seen during the ps1 era with mindless hold-cross-to-win combat
series like final fantasy are doing better than in a long while with novel core gameplay instead of the stagnation seen during the ps1 era with mindless hold-cross-to-win combat
The big studio no longer doing as many experimental RPG sadden me , but as a whole, I'm okay with the current direction. Not to mention not having to wait long for small and mid studio JRPG to be localized is good.
This lineup makes me feel like a hard-to-please curmudgeon.
Games I'm not interested in because I don't like the other games in their respective series: Bravely Default 2, SMT Nocturne HD, SMTV, Tales of Arise, Ys 9, Atelier Ryza 2, Rune Factory 5, Disgaea 6, Nier Replicant, Digimon Survive (I feel like some kind of fake JRPG fan when I admit that I like the Persona games but not the other SMT games, but what can I say. Some of the other series on this list have at least one other entry I like, but most likely not any of the games released in the last several+ years)
Game that I don't consider a JRPG no matter how often people include this series on lists like these: Monster Hunter Rise (Stories actually looks like a JRPG and I admit I didn't play the first one)
Sequel to one of my favorite JRPGs ever, so I'm concerned that there's nowhere to go but down: NEO The World Ends With You
Game I was interested in getting around to, but I recently stopped playing part three because there was a disgusting sexual assault scene played for laughs/titillation: Cold Steel 4
Games I'm actually looking forward to: SaGa Frontier Remastered, FFXVI, Yakuza 7 PS5 (The trailer for SaGa legitimately made me feel emotional, and I'm excited to finally have an improved version of the game with cut content restored. And for FFXVI? The only mainline FF that left a completely sour taste in my mouth post-1991 was XIII - the rest I either consider to be excellent or have enough excellent qualities to be worth playing at least once)
The only other thing I'll say is that I would seriously love to be wrong about any of the games I'm dismissing! I prefer enjoying games much more than disliking them. And in regards to the main purpose of this thread: a lot of the reasons why I end up not liking JRPGs are related to "weeb shit". And yes, (many) JRPGs have always had lots of anime influence/aspects, but anime itself has changed in the last decade or two.