• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Aight boomers, what y'all think?

  • Loving it

    Votes: 214 19.6%
  • Indifferent

    Votes: 102 9.3%
  • Don't like the current direction

    Votes: 117 10.7%
  • Needs less dating sim, lolis and harems

    Votes: 457 41.8%
  • They don't make em like they used to - boomer

    Votes: 204 18.6%

  • Total voters
    1,094

OskarXCI

Member
Nov 11, 2018
1,229
They could certainly ease on the dating sim elements and all the waifu pandering. I wish there were more JRPGs aimed the seinen anime crowd.

One of the big problems westerners seem to have with JRPGs these days is there aren't really any new ones for fans of games like Suikoden (Eyuuden), FF7-10, Vagrant Story, Parasite Eve, FF Tactics, and other sort of harder-edged JRPGs.
I'm missing the more 'grand'/political stories told by games like Tactics Ogre and FFT. So I guess I miss Matsuno, because I also miss Vagrant Story's original characters, story and setting. I'd rather be playing stuff that looks like it came from that PSONe era but had that kinda story/characters then the great looking but (to me) less interesting stories/characters I see in a lot of present-day games.

This is why people should look forward to Final Fantasy XVI. Many on the development team have either been involved with Matsuno's previous works or are huge fans of them. Producer Naoki Yoshida's favorite game is Tactics Ogre.
 

Barn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,137
Los Angeles
I like some anime-assed stuff and plenty of cheese, and I consider that tendency toward the strange and over-the-top part of the genre, but I could really do without having to vet every single JRPG for creepy, exploitative, pandering shit in regards to the depiction of women.
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,130
I think we are in pretty good time period compared to the ps360 days.

still nothing like the SNES PSX era.
 

lusca_bueno

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,472
There are titles that I like, but I feel like these games are limiting themselves to very small groups of people in unhealthy development of certain themes. JRPGs are usually so colorful, artistically accomplished, unique, I think they have potential to grow a lot in the industry if they leave puberty already.
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,680
I don't care too much about dating sim elements as long as they aren't terribly implemented or contain garbo dialogue (which most sadly do), but the harem and loli shit is annoying af.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,550
Outside of Persona, how many JRPGs have a bunch of dating in them? I'm not talking about ultra niche unlocalized Vita games, i mean games that we actually talk about on this forum.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,386
Under no definition of the term is Octopath Traveler "dirt cheap". The amount of sprite work in the game totally dwarves nearly any RPG from the 90s in terms of raw volume. There's like, full sets of combat sprites for about 300-400 characters, and each of those characters has 3-8x the number of sprites of the Final Fantasy job/character combos.

OT has a design that is reminiscent of old games, but is vastly larger than the games Western audiences would associate it with. OT is what you get when an experienced producer throws a lot of money at an old style, but giving it freedom to also do its own thing. At a budget estimated between 10 and 20 million, Octopath is definitely that in-between.

Where are you getting the budget estimate?

Just did a quick look at youtube to refresh my memory and the enemies face one direction and have a slight idle animation loop. They generally flash when they're about to do a move rather than actually do an animation. Human characters are setup in traditional SNES FF style which makes it relatively easy to generate variants (as opposed to something like Chrono Trigger where the sprites are larger & have more shape variety from character to character). Dungeon and town design is very simple & standardized from area to area. All cutscenes are in-engine. Dirt-cheap was probably the wrong word to use since something like Octopath would still be prohibitively expensive for a tiny indie, but you can see all the places where they cut corners to save on money. Octopath is very much a case of small budget + modern rendering techniques.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
Where are you getting the budget estimate?

Just did a quick look at youtube to refresh my memory and the enemies face one direction and have a slight idle animation loop. They generally flash when they're about to do a move rather than actually do an animation. Human characters are setup in traditional SNES FF style which makes it relatively easy to generate variants (as opposed to something like Chrono Trigger where the sprites are larger & have more shape variety from character to character). Dungeon and town design is very simple & standardized from area to area. All cutscenes are in-engine. Dirt-cheap was probably the wrong word to use since something like Octopath would still be prohibitively expensive for a tiny indie, but you can see all the places where they cut corners to save on money. Octopath is very much a case of small budget + modern rendering techniques.

The numbers were by the Eiyuden developers during their kickstarter when they were estimating the budget for their game.

You can try to downplay the amount of assets in OT, but the sprite sheets don't lie (other than ambiguous standards on when to duplicate the left-right sprites on the sheet).

Here's one character/class combination for OT:

Nintendo Switch - Octopath Traveler - Olberic (Thief) - The Spriters Resource

Nintendo Switch - Octopath Traveler - Olberic (Thief) - The #1 source for video game sprites on the internet!
Here's a colelction for FF5.

SNES - Final Fantasy 5 (JPN) - Bartz Klauser - The Spriters Resource

SNES - Final Fantasy 5 (JPN) - Bartz Klauser - The #1 source for video game sprites on the internet!
It is about 60 sprites per character/job in OT, vs. 10 sprites in FF5

Here's a comparison of the world map exploration / cutscene sprites:

Nintendo Switch - Octopath Traveler - Ophilia (Cleric / Base) - The Spriters Resource

Nintendo Switch - Octopath Traveler - Ophilia (Cleric / Base) - The #1 source for video game sprites on the internet!

SNES - Final Fantasy 5 (JPN) - Bartz Klauser - The Spriters Resource

SNES - Final Fantasy 5 (JPN) - Bartz Klauser - The #1 source for video game sprites on the internet!
Around 180 per each of the 8 characters in OT, vs. 27 for each of the 5 characters in FF5.

This is almost every single non-main character NPC in the entirety of FF5:

SNES - Final Fantasy 5 (JPN) - NPCs (Overworld) - The Spriters Resource

SNES - Final Fantasy 5 (JPN) - NPCs (Overworld) - The #1 source for video game sprites on the internet!
Meanwhile, one NPC in OT:

Nintendo Switch - Octopath Traveler - Z'aanta - The Spriters Resource

Nintendo Switch - Octopath Traveler - Z'aanta - The #1 source for video game sprites on the internet!
The spriters resource doesn't even have the full sets for OT, with there being a few hundred village NPCs that have full sprite sheets, because everybody can be fought or recruited.
Each of the 8 regions has a totally different set of NPCs and village terrains, filling 24 towns, which is far more than nearly any of S/E games of that era. It all adds up quickly multiplicatively as there's more regions, more unique characters per region, and more frames of animation per character in those regions. There's an overall diversity in NPCs is that fundamentally unrivaled by any game from the 16-bit era that it looks like at first glance. For battle sprites, having more distinct animations, like swinging different weapon types, or idle-idle, or waiting-idle, and giving each of those animations where a previous sprite sufficed in the past.


That people don't even recognize how much more elaborate the sprite-work is in Octopath Traveler than actual 16-bit games were speaks to how much people remember those older games through rose-tinted glasses.
 
Last edited:

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
Outside of Persona, how many JRPGs have a bunch of dating in them? I'm not talking about ultra niche unlocalized Vita games, i mean games that we actually talk about on this forum.
atlus, marvelous, and gust usually produce a game that has that stuff in it, xceed sometimes but they are also a shot gun producer and localizer releasing or licensing everything that might produce a profit
 

JudgmentJay

Member
Nov 14, 2017
5,226
Texas
I'm in the "They don't make em like they used to" boomer camp, but there are still some really good ones. Persona 5 and Dragon Quest XI stand alongside the best in the genre imo. FF7R is pretty good as well. I have a feeling I'd like the Bravely Default/Second games, Octopath Traveler and some others, but there are too many games to play so I don't go for lengthy JRPGs as often as I used to.
 

McNum

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,195
Denmark
I miss airships. It was a thing, where you finally got the airship and could go exploring. The player airship always had a cool design, too. Heck, Skies of Arcadia has the best time-to-airship score and that's a cult classic.

And yes, the whole harem pandering is getting old fast. If you're going to make a harem comedy, then, by all means, go do that. But it doesn't have to be in your save the world from some angelic looking jerk 40-80 hour RPG. Same with underage characters in way inappropriate clothing. I love Fire Emblem, but characters like Nowi are just a Nono. (Haha! Localization joke!)

I also kind of miss when JRPGs took weird ideas and just went for it. Final Fantasy VII is an all-time classic, but have you stepped back and thought about what you actually do in that game? You're Eco-terrorists who happen to be right, led by a self-delusional man whose hair is as excessive as his sword, his childhood friend who's not quite a true believer, Hyper-Mr. T, a manic flower-girl who hears voices, a talking dog, a ninja princess, a grumpy pilot, Dracula, and an animatronic cat. You fight capitalism and an alien monster that's basically The Thing. You may or many not save the world in the end.

FF7 is weird, is what I'm saying. And JRPGs are generally best when they take weird, or at least unique ideas and run with them. You can only really get away with being a generic fantasy RPG if you're Dragon Quest these days.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,851
FF7 is weird, is what I'm saying. And JRPGs are generally best when they take weird, or at least unique ideas and run with them. You can only really get away with being a generic fantasy RPG if you're Dragon Quest these days.

The irony is, I don't really think there are all that many generic fantasy RPGs anymore. Like Octopath Traveler certainly fits that description, but beyond that, most JRPGs are just..."let's stick high school anime tropes into [X]", only substitute [X] for World War II or whatever fucking else they want to use as a backdrop for the same empty, generic character archetypes they keep recycling ad nauseum.

I can't even count how many games just randomly decide to shove french maids, high schools and idols into random settings where those things shouldn't even exist, just because otaku expect their maids and idols and sempais in everything. Similar to how every single female character, without fail, seems to need to have thigh-high stockings or boots and a short skirt so they have that stupid zettai ryouiki. No matter whether they're a hardened battle commander, an evil demon or the fucking Pope, the thigh gap is always there, like some kind of weird not-even-remotely-secret "we see you, otaku, and we got your back" code.
 

HufnPuf

Member
Oct 29, 2017
174
Canada
They're fine the way they are. I'm in the Harada camp where Americans want a bald space marine all the time and for me that just turns me off more than anything.
 

McNum

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,195
Denmark
The irony is, I don't really think there are all that many generic fantasy RPGs anymore. Like Octopath Traveler certainly fits that description, but beyond that, most JRPGs are just..."let's stick high school anime tropes into [X]", only substitute [X] for World War II or whatever fucking else they want to use as a backdrop for the same empty, generic character archetypes they keep recycling ad nauseum.

I can't even count how many games just randomly decide to shove french maids, high schools and idols into random settings where those things shouldn't even exist, just because otaku expect their maids and idols and sempais in everything. Similar to how every single female character, without fail, seems to need to have thigh-high stockings or boots and a short skirt so they have that stupid zettai ryouiki. No matter whether they're a hardened battle commander, an evil demon or the fucking Pope, the thigh gap is always there, like some kind of weird not-even-remotely-secret "we see you, otaku, and we got your back" code.
The whole maid fetish thing doesn't even make sense for worlds where maids aren't a thing. Looking at you, Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Also the Pope example sounds really specific, but I can't place it. I can only really think of Rhea from Three Houses as an anime Pope, but she doesn't have that, at least.

And yeah, the generic character tropes are just getting old. They rarely even mix them up. The demure healer lass is especially getting old, in part because anyone who's played healer in an MMO or similar knows that "demure" is not the state of emotion most commonly found in healers. More like... annoyance. Spite. Pettiness. Schadenfreude. "Can these idiots PLEASE stop blocking swords with their FACE?!" You know, a proper Healer mentality.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,829
To be frank I began a transition to CRPGs around 2004 and I think it's now complete. I enjoy stuff like Persona 5 or DQXI no problem, but those are the only memorable JRPG from this gen to me. Then I see the action combat of FFXV or XVI and it's an instant turn-off.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,003
I went with the boomer answer. I want JRPGs with :

a) Good town design. A good world with a sense of discovery.
b) Simple equipment design, but where you need a little bit of grinding to get the better items.
c) Great dungeon designs (arguably they've never been that great).
d) A good, heartfelt story without too many anime tropes.
e) No waifus or too embarassing characters.
f) Great combat system that doesn't rely on an incredible amount of stats and, PLEASE, doesn't play itself - needs actual input from me. Turn-based is still the best for me. And don't try to be an action game if you can't do a good job at it.

Apart from its problems with e), Persona 5 was pretty much the last good-to-great one I played. I tried a lot of other ones and they're generally pretty bad.

My older favorites : FF4, FF6, Chrono Trigger, Skies of Arcadia.
 

tenisilin234

Banned
Dec 5, 2020
266
i cant believe i forgot to mention the tales of vesperia remaster. another game that came out recently. it has the most fun gameplay in a rpg IMO.



i shouldnt have came to this thread.....
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,793
The whole maid fetish thing doesn't even make sense for worlds where maids aren't a thing. Looking at you, Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Also the Pope example sounds really specific, but I can't place it. I can only really think of Rhea from Three Houses as an anime Pope, but she doesn't have that, at least.

And yeah, the generic character tropes are just getting old. They rarely even mix them up. The demure healer lass is especially getting old, in part because anyone who's played healer in an MMO or similar knows that "demure" is not the state of emotion most commonly found in healers. More like... annoyance. Spite. Pettiness. Schadenfreude. "Can these idiots PLEASE stop blocking swords with their FACE?!" You know, a proper Healer mentality.
Maids are a thing in XC2...
For one, it takes place on Earth... Aristocracy is still a thing in Alrest. And Tora's family got their ideas from ancient magazines.
 

Neoleo2143

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,462
Maids are a thing in XC2...
For one, it takes place on Earth... Aristocracy is still a thing in Alrest. And Tora's family got their ideas from ancient magazines.

But that's a thermian argument and missing the point. The point isn't that there was not a world building justification, the point is that it shouldn't have been in the game at all.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
The whole maid fetish thing doesn't even make sense for worlds where maids aren't a thing. Looking at you, Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Also the Pope example sounds really specific, but I can't place it. I can only really think of Rhea from Three Houses as an anime Pope, but she doesn't have that, at least.

And yeah, the generic character tropes are just getting old. They rarely even mix them up. The demure healer lass is especially getting old, in part because anyone who's played healer in an MMO or similar knows that "demure" is not the state of emotion most commonly found in healers. More like... annoyance. Spite. Pettiness. Schadenfreude. "Can these idiots PLEASE stop blocking swords with their FACE?!" You know, a proper Healer mentality.
The one that made me laugh was this one from whatever the hell the Shining series is now. She's a knight (with short skirt, stockings and plate mail cleavage window obviously) and a maid all at the same time, but obviously with swimwear and school uniform options too, because heaven forbid any otaku tastes get left out. Funny all these medieval tech level worlds seem to have prioritised development of bloody lycra in tandem with plate armour.
shining.gamepedia.com

Sonia Blanche

Sonia Blanche is one of the heroes of Shining Resonance Re:frain. The Lightning Princess The leader of the party, and crown princess of Astoria. Despite her royal status, she fights on the front lines, leading her people against the Empire. Her swordsmanship is exceptional, and her quick...

from the fandom site:
Sonia is a tall young woman with fair skin and long black hair, with a thin figure with a large bust. She wears a set of feminine armor with a skirt and a window for her cleavage on her breastplate and a large cross in her ear...

She is also shown to be a voracious eater,
shining.fandom.com

Sonia Blanche

Unnamed Queen (Mother) Deceased Yuma Ilvern (Husband/Sonia ending only)="hidden" Excuse me for being a tomboy of a princess, I'll have you know that being out fighting like this.. It's just my way!Sonia Blanche, Shining Resonance Sonia Blanche (ソニア・ブランシュ, Sōnia Buranshu), also known as Sonia...

All this crap is everything wrong with the genre, just a tired, templated list of tropes and fetishes regurgitating itself.
 
Last edited:

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,064
While I think real-time-with-pause is the best of both worlds, my problem with turn-based isn't really the turn-based aspect, but rather the fact that trash mobs are much more tiring in turn-based systems than real-time systems.

Even with auto-battle, having to go through the same enemies over and over again takes longer in turn-based games. In real-time games you can just mash through them without breaking your stride. Battle transitions are my other problem -- being able to explore in real time makes turn-base battles feel slow. The only traditional JRPGs where this isn't painful are games like Dragon Quest XI and Yakuza Like A Dragon where they finally got the battle transitions to the point of being near-seamless.

These are two reasons I tend to prefer SRPGs: They tend to not have trash mobs or are at least just less repetitive, and the whole game is turn-based or menu-based so it feels more cohesive.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,851
The whole maid fetish thing doesn't even make sense for worlds where maids aren't a thing. Looking at you, Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Also the Pope example sounds really specific, but I can't place it. I can only really think of Rhea from Three Houses as an anime Pope, but she doesn't have that, at least.

And yeah, the generic character tropes are just getting old. They rarely even mix them up. The demure healer lass is especially getting old, in part because anyone who's played healer in an MMO or similar knows that "demure" is not the state of emotion most commonly found in healers. More like... annoyance. Spite. Pettiness. Schadenfreude. "Can these idiots PLEASE stop blocking swords with their FACE?!" You know, a proper Healer mentality.

The pope example was Genshin Impact. The pope of Mondstadt is a 16-year-old girl who's also an idol in a big frilly dress. Because of course she is. :/
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,793
But that's a thermian argument and missing the point. The point isn't that there was not a world building justification, the point is that it shouldn't have been in the game at all.
I was responding to a post that was arguing that there was no in-game justification, though...

The argument was that it doesn't make sense because "maids aren't a thing" in that world.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,091
Still haven't seen a JRPG that's on the level of the PSX FF's. They offered complete stories with excellent pacing with varied gameplay and set pieces. JRPG's these days just feel like they have this same repeating gameplay loop. I can still enjoy modern JRPG's for what they are as the combat mechanics generally have improved a lot, but I wish there was a modern JRPG that atleast tried to emulate what Square did in their prime.
 

sacrament

Banned
Dec 16, 2019
2,119
I like some anime-assed stuff and plenty of cheese, and I consider that tendency toward the strange and over-the-top part of the genre, but I could really do without having to vet every single JRPG for creepy, exploitative, pandering shit in regards to the depiction of women.

This. So much this. I am playing DQXI for the first time, and there's even some subtly weird shit there too that has my wife giving me side eye.

Used to be a huge JRPG fan, but it's been too reductive and misogynistic for my tastes for a long time. I really do wish even folks on Era (as the tone of this thread seems to support) would hold these developers to the same standards we are bringing to CDPR and others. Cause in the end a lot of this stuff is a bit pedo and dehumanizing to women.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,851
Remember when JRPG popes were only trying to sacrifice you all to an ancient eldritch evil? Good times ;D

220


"My name is Zera Innocentius and I am totally a good guy."

0839314966e7348fbd0d09970b8d77e4edcce24cr1-480-270_hq.gif
 

AquaWateria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,533
I'm just glad we are getting a variety of Jrpgs these days. Been quite satisfied by the genre these days.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Have completely slept on that one despite owning a 3DS. Worth in 3DS or should I for the (supposedly) improved mobile versions?
Yeah, it was one of the more overlooked late RPGs. I absolutely loved it. Faithfully turns a lot of MonHun ideas into a turn-based system, and flying around on your favourite monsters that you've raised from an egg never gets old. Story is a very much aimed at the Pokémon crowd, it's a Saturday morning cartoon adventure, but it has a lot of heart. I played on 3DS but it might be worth going for mobile if the cart is expensive.
 

Mr. Nice_Guy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,716
Less experimental than it used to be, for better and for worse. But I prefer the art style of titles from the "golden age"; Xenogears, Vagrant Story, FFT, Tactics Ogre. Music was more varied too, although modern music hasn't taken the same hit general character design and story telling has.

Harem/Loli shit needs to go. Nonexistent MC's so they can be self insert character for the play and so every other character can follow around also destroys some games. Three Houses was incapable of having good writing when the MC was involved because it was just "oh professor thank god you're here" every single time.
 

Clipo

Member
Jul 13, 2020
56
My problem is not only with some RPGs, but with some Japanese writers in general. Some of them only consume anime and what they produce is becoming each generation more and more solipsistic, with a medium that is only able to look at itself. The overuse of tropes is happening not only because of italy pandering, but also because the vision of the writers is limited by only moving inside that medium of anime, LN and video games and nothing else.
 

MZZ

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,264
There are still standouts that are still really good. I think the old mainstays like FF and DQ and such are still relatively good and I can't be more excited about XVI. Tales will probably be have a renaisance once we get Arise. Oh and forgot to mention that Persona is my GOAT game and FF7R is my GOTG with how it defied my expectations and how it evolved and finally nailed the combat (with lots of untapped potential for improvement).

I just hope that Square's smaller JRPG stuff hits stride. RPG factory, bravely devs, and octopath devs have a lot of potential.

One thing I am missing is for Capcom and Sony to get back into JRPGs.

More Xenogear less Xenoblade I guess though XBC is really good. XB2 does not really hold a candle to it. Havent played XBX.

Looking forward to more stuff for next gen. Scarlet Nexus seems interesting and Y7 was an interesting turn, Granblue is highly anticipated. And everyone has their eyes on Yoko Taro's next project.

Atlus has Project Re:Fantasy which I am really excited to learn more about. And Persona 6 is one of my most anticipated game though it doesn't really exist yet.

I want to see what's next to all mentioned above. There's barely any jrpgs announced for next gen but they're coming.

I avoid the more moe centric stuff though. Not really appealing to me even with my tolerance of anime tropes.

Edit: Oh and for the love of god, Please revive FF Tactics and the job system.
 

EggmaniMN

Banned
May 17, 2020
3,465
I am quite out of the loop on the genre. Any particular games you'd highlight?

We've got Bravely Default 2, SMT Nocturne HD, SMTV, Tales of Arise probably, Ys 9, Atelier Ryza 2, CrisTales, Rune Factory 5, Disgaea 6, Nier Replicant if you count action rpgs, the PS5 version of Yakuza 7, the Monster Hunter games Rise and Stories 2, Digimon Survive, NEO The World Ends With You, SaGa Frontier Remastered, Trails of Cold Steel 4 if you're on Switch/PC, maybe even FF16?

It's a very strong lineup.
 

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,433
I don't like that they're slowly morphing into action games. If I want to play an action game, I can just play an action game. I don't need all of my games to be action games.
 

atomsk eater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,830
I probably fall into the boomer category here. Spend a lot of time wishing I could play Lunar, Suikoden, Wild Arms, Breath of Fire (especially Dragon Quarter, so sue me), etc for the first time. There's still cool stuff, like DQXI which kept me glued to my console for over a hundred hours, but more often than not I'm not super excited for a lot of releases.

My problem is not only with some RPGs, but with some Japanese writers in general. Some of them only consume anime and what they produce is becoming each generation more and more solipsistic, with a medium that is only able to look at itself. The overuse of tropes is happening not only because of italy pandering, but also because the vision of the writers is limited by only moving inside that medium of anime, LN and video games and nothing else.

Agreed. I remember reading that devs are at their best when they're also engaging in hobbies outside of just games, anime, etc. I think in relation to Nintendo.