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Ok, I hate how Square is over orchestrating the entire OST of Final Fantasy VII
- Thread starter Swift_Gamer
- Start date
I can understand not liking it if they fuck up the instrumentation if this were like just a remaster or something; that's why I don't like the "remastered" soundtrack for FFX and XII. But with this being a full remake and a lot of other aspects of the game already changed dramatically, I feel like musical changes like this make sense.
Orchestrated "cinematic" soundtracks for movies and games is a weird 21st century thing that I just haven't been able to get behind. Let's get some variety in sound back.
Same I prefer the original. I think the melodies get lost in the orchestrated versions. I felt the same way about Smash and a bunch of other somewhat recent Nintendo games.
lol awesome, I didn't even catch that.
So yeah, my theory is gone then.
Much prefer the orchestrated versions I've heard so far.
The instrumentations for the majority of FFVII's original soundtrack are... not good and while the melodies there are more prominent, I think there'd be strong tonal whiplash with the style of game they're making here.
I would say that a bit of variety of real instruments wouldn't go amiss. More synth though, nah I'm good.
The instrumentations for the majority of FFVII's original soundtrack are... not good and while the melodies there are more prominent, I think there'd be strong tonal whiplash with the style of game they're making here.
I would say that a bit of variety of real instruments wouldn't go amiss. More synth though, nah I'm good.
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It'd be nice if they mixed things up, you know? Make it both synth and orchestra. It'd sound unique and iconic.
The mix feels like the issue to me based on the songs I've heard. It's the same exact problem with DMC5, the music loses its identity in a lot of the in-game cacophony. Having better instrumentation would solve the issue, but fixing the mix could alleviate how boilerplate it feels right now.
I generally agree with the broad strokes of the topic, abundance in orchestration is an easy way to lose flavor and Final Fantasy in particular has such a notorious reputation for being this "epic series" despite humbler beginnings that it seemed a bit of a groan-worthy given so much of it would lean to an orchestrated approach. I feel like if you're going to use an orchestra it should be sparingly in moments when it really matters; this is something I hold Astral Chain up for doing extremely well last year and the composers had a dev log where they talked about the importance of maintaining a unique sound palette (and how even in the orchestral arrangements they regularly combined other genre influences). That was something I do feel FFVII was really distinct in, upon retrospect, and I do feel Remake misses the mark in a few areas in breaking expectations and going for something that actually breathes new life in the original arrangements.
I generally agree with the broad strokes of the topic, abundance in orchestration is an easy way to lose flavor and Final Fantasy in particular has such a notorious reputation for being this "epic series" despite humbler beginnings that it seemed a bit of a groan-worthy given so much of it would lean to an orchestrated approach. I feel like if you're going to use an orchestra it should be sparingly in moments when it really matters; this is something I hold Astral Chain up for doing extremely well last year and the composers had a dev log where they talked about the importance of maintaining a unique sound palette (and how even in the orchestral arrangements they regularly combined other genre influences). That was something I do feel FFVII was really distinct in, upon retrospect, and I do feel Remake misses the mark in a few areas in breaking expectations and going for something that actually breathes new life in the original arrangements.
Now why would I do that? Why would you do that? I don't want to spoil myself the experience.
They should have known how iconic the OST is and left is pretty much alone except modernizing it a little bit with updated synths and midi tracks. Shame
just have the track restart from the beginning every time a new segment is supposed to play i heard ff7 fans like tracks restarting
100% agree that they're overdoing it by making *every* arranged for live orchestra. Mako Reactor in particular completely loses important aspects of the atmosphere and aesthetic of the original track.
I like both but a big reason i was hyped for ff7 remake is because of the soundtrack and I'd be lying if i said i got the same atmosphere from this version. I think an option to replace the soundtrack with the old one would of been a good design decision but with how music is handled here it wouldn't so simple as changing it one for one.
if nothing else it means the original will always have a place out there and I don't think it's the be all end all.
if nothing else it means the original will always have a place out there and I don't think it's the be all end all.
I love what they've done with the orchestration, but I think they missed the mark by making it entirely that. Part of the reason for the synthy sounds in the original was technical limitations, but some of the songs lose a bit of sinisterness or edge by taking out any sort of synthy noises. The orchestral stuff sounds fantastic; I don't think it's as simple as solely "make it orchestrated" or "leave it as it was," but I think there's a middle ground they missed a bit.
idk man I think we can talk about things that disappointed us instead of being blindly optimistic or solely pessimistic/bashing
idk man I think we can talk about things that disappointed us instead of being blindly optimistic or solely pessimistic/bashing
It's a less is more situation but this game sort of seems like the height of opulence. It's as if whoever was in charge of the arrangement didn't really care.for the original intent as far as mood.
Listening to the soundtrack more closely I'm really enjoying how dynamic the soundtrack is.
But I still would have appreciated the use of synths and percussion to keep some of the industrial atmosphere prominent. One of the things I hate in orchestrated versions of the Those Who Fight is them replacing the "whistling" with strings instead of a prominent flute. Thats the stuff I'm worried about in the soundtrack.
J.E.N.O.V.A won't have the same effect if its missing the weird spacey synth alluding to her origins. I can already see them replacing that with violin.
But I still would have appreciated the use of synths and percussion to keep some of the industrial atmosphere prominent. One of the things I hate in orchestrated versions of the Those Who Fight is them replacing the "whistling" with strings instead of a prominent flute. Thats the stuff I'm worried about in the soundtrack.
J.E.N.O.V.A won't have the same effect if its missing the weird spacey synth alluding to her origins. I can already see them replacing that with violin.
How could you spoil listening to music by listening to music? I like the music and what I heard was a lot more varied but some seemed to be from the
jukebox in the bar from previous games
Spoilers have a minor effect on experience anyway. The opinions in this thread are based on a very, very limited sample of the tracks in the game.
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Good thing this is not what this is about and I'm not as closed minded to not appreciate what they're doing and I am able to criticize the direction they're taking with the new OST while appreciating the game at the same time since both are not mutually exclusive.
I mean, they had access to orchestral-style sound sampling at the time. It's how we got One Winged Angel.
The synthetic bent to the music for most of the game was more of a stylistic choice than a technical one, even within the limitations of the sound library at the time
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That difference in instrumentation is one of the things that made One Winged Angel stand out at the time, actually:
Unlike many of the songs in the game (and almost all the ones that are points of contention in this discussion), the sampling used for the original One Winged Angel was meant to evoke the sound of an orchestra, which is aided by the use of actual vocals!
So when you get something like the Distant Worlds rendition of the song:
It's like, "Wow! This is how the song was meant to be heard!"
Because in the case of One Winged Angel, that's probably true! It's basically written for orchestra.
But that's in contrast to the rest of the soundtrack, rather than in keeping with it. That contrast is part of what makes OWA so effective! Heavier orchestration throughout the OST takes away from that contrast, and as a consequence the identity of the whole soundtrack.
Again: This isn't inherently bad. But it is quite different, and it's worth reflecting on, and it's why some (myself included) would have preferred heavier synth leanings for most of the new instrumentations
Unlike many of the songs in the game (and almost all the ones that are points of contention in this discussion), the sampling used for the original One Winged Angel was meant to evoke the sound of an orchestra, which is aided by the use of actual vocals!
So when you get something like the Distant Worlds rendition of the song:
It's like, "Wow! This is how the song was meant to be heard!"
Because in the case of One Winged Angel, that's probably true! It's basically written for orchestra.
But that's in contrast to the rest of the soundtrack, rather than in keeping with it. That contrast is part of what makes OWA so effective! Heavier orchestration throughout the OST takes away from that contrast, and as a consequence the identity of the whole soundtrack.
Again: This isn't inherently bad. But it is quite different, and it's worth reflecting on, and it's why some (myself included) would have preferred heavier synth leanings for most of the new instrumentations
The most amusing/ridiculous part of this entire thread is people judging the entirety of FF7R's soundtrack by literally a handful of tracks they can hear throughout the demo.
Yeah the leaked "jukebox" music mined from the demo has some really good and inventive stuff, including chiptune music. Probably will never play in the game proper though.
It's a combination of technical limitations and subpar sound engineering. The instruments in OWA sound just as awful as anything else in the game. It literally uses the same sound bank.
Hi I've read the OP. You're using the original tracks as a frame of reference for what specific instruments should be heard in the remake songs. I am saying that is a mistake. You are free to disagree, of course.
If you're a fan of classical music then I really wasn't aiming the post at you, it was more at people dismissing orchestral music outright.
I appreciate the more nuanced response, but I get the exact opposite impressions as you when I listen to the soundtrack. I'd like to give more concrete examples but I think I'll just leave it be as a difference of opinion.
more of a focus on lead melodies would be nice. there are ways to orchestrate something and not make it an unwieldy, nondescript blob. It comes down to the arrangement and the mix. think more early john williams and modern michael giacchino and less (insert generic modern film composer whose work you will never remember here).
the pieces should've used synth sounds where synth sounds were intended, and strings when strings were intended, etc IMO. Not just strings for everything.
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This is where I'm at. There are high quality synths that are used in music nowadays and they could've been used in the OST. You can have both. That's why I'm saying it's over orchestrated. It's using orchestra where it's not meant to be used.
Eh, maybe? The Black Mages were started before Distant Worlds does, so I don't think that argument makes complete sense. I definitely think a lot of the game's tracks would have been orchestrated if that was possible back then, but when we talk about synths, we don't just mean synthetic piano and strings, but the beeps and boops and such too. For instance, the Mako Reactor theme: it uses digitized chimes and timpani, but the melody itself is a strange, high-pitched buzzy-sounding tone. Similarly, J-E-N-O-V-A's repeated descending pattern doesn't sound like digitized instruments to me; it reminds me more of the sort of sound effects you get in the "space sounds" area of an electric keyboard, while the main melody itself sounds much more like digitized strings and the triumphant bit before the descending pattern comes back is clearly a brass instrument.
I don't think the orchestration is so bad that the music loses its identity, myself. It's absolutely gorgeous, and the arrangements are really cool, but some of the songs do end up with a bit of a different vibe than the originals. I think we can appreciate the orchestral versions while wanting a bit more synth without it being "this sucks." Like, we've only heard some of the songs, so obviously we're not getting a well-rounded look, but I think it's worth discussing!
Well, yeah. There are always going to be people who don't like any sort of change from their view of something... but it also kind of silences discussion to say things like this. Hell, I don't even think OP thinks that the instruments need to be the exact same things at the exact same tempos; it's just that some instruments (including synths) evoke vastly different vibes and moods than others. Taking a trumpet part and using a trombone or tuba will make it differ, sure, but it'll be a lot closer than trying to get an oboe section to do it. It's not about converting the game precisely 1:1 (and I think quite a few gamers understand that since Square has been up front with this not being an exact recreation... or at least, I hope so), but the specific choices not quite aligning with the original music.
Oh for sure elements like the descending arpeggios in Jenovas theme would likely still be synthesized sounds. I guess I mean a lot of what we hear in the demo feels like it would have been an orchestra were it an option on the table. But it also poses an interesting question. Would something like Jenova theme have even been made that way if orchestra were an option or was it a byproduct of working within the limitations.
Ofc that part of the theme has been orchestrated by distant worlds iirc and as you say black images did metal version too so that probably is more bending stuff to fit for the show. I guess to me bombing mission just sounded how I expected and the rest felt like a natural evolution.
I dunno if personally I'd say anything was lost from the feel yet as it's a little early. I'd need to hear more. But if I were to pick at anything I do think perhaps the reactor soundtrack could do with some adjustment. Bring the bells back for sure since theres no reason to remove them and maybe add a synth layer to the main melody. It should feel a little otherworldly and that one area was a little short of it. The rest I was fine with.
Can you post an example of a song from the demo that doesn't focus on the lead melodies?
Scorpion fight in the original didn't even have a boss theme, come on...
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I understand the point you guys are making but Mako Reactor is the worst example to use because the remake sounds incredible.
