Ok, I hate how Square is over orchestrating the entire OST of Final Fantasy VII

[saladdays]

Yup, it's garbage. Exact same shit Brawl's soundtrack did where they just swapped out any charm or character the original song had and replaced it with EPIC ORCHESTRATION and HEAVY GUITAR. So cool bro!!!! Love everything sounding like a shitty youtube arrangement!

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I wan't to know what a non "generic" orchestra sounds like and why

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Witchcraft! I never said those words!

 

[Cheezeman3000]

Oof. The hot takes on this thread over orchestra music.

Here's a tip: if all orchestra music sounds generically "same" to you, there's a good chance you're listening to it with a closed mind. Try listening to some classical orchestra music, especially from the romantic, impressionist and neoclassicism eras, and try to figure out what people love about this stuff. Approach it with an open mind, and try to imagine the stories the composers are trying to tell (or look up the history on wikipedia). It'll be worth it.

The music in VII Remake doesn't come close to that level of mastery, but it's far from generic, and a familiarity with orchestral music will help you appreciate more what they've done. The soundtrack in the demo is full of clever countermelodies, masterful use of thematic lines, and effective ebbs and flows in the musical phrases. Not only is it composed well, it's also very successful at taking the original songs and translating them to fit perfectly with the new gameplay.

I really can't stress enough how a lot of people's reactions can only be explained from a place of ignorance, and I don't know why I keep trying to defend it outside of a strong passion for all the things *right* that they did with the soundtrack.

 

[345]

i love the new arrangements and think they fit perfectly. it just sounds like a distant worlds concert in my living room, which i am super okay with.

 

[youwei]

personal preference but all orchestra for me

 

[Philippo]

I don't mind it.
Some tracks greatly benefit from the new arrangements, like the Bombing Mission.
Other, like Mako Reactor or Shinra Inc., while not bad by any means, miss that metallic 'industrial' feel that added to the atmosphere.

Really curious to listen to Under the Rotting Pizza or The Oppressed, but those doesn't look like tracks that fit orchestral arrangements. I hope they keep those weird jazzy vibes!

 

[Green Stig]

I love the new soundtrack. Especially the menu theme I can listen to that on repeat.

 

[Midee]

Yup, it's garbage. Exact same shit Brawl's soundtrack did where they just swapped out any charm or character the original song had and replaced it with EPIC ORCHESTRATION and HEAVY GUITAR. So cool bro!!!! Love everything sounding like a shitty youtube arrangement!

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I'm glad I'm not alone in this thinking lol. Everything is either epic cinematic orchestral or epic cinematic orchestral with blastbeat metal.

TBF though, the Smash composer team probably had to churn those tunes out quickly and didn't have a lot of time for nuance.

 

[sephiroth7x]

I will always prefer the original music, purely because it has nestled its way into my brain as some of the most perfect music ever and have listened to it regularly since it came out.

But I generally have no problem with the new soundtrack so far. They haven't straight up changed it, and the nods to the original while filling out the gaps are fine. I am waiting for the full soundtrack first but I can't see me having an issue. Especially considering I love hearing different interpretations of gaming soundtracks anyway.

 

[Yarbskoo]

Complaining about orchestral arrangements is one thing, but I better not hear any of you guys talking shit about the Super Mario Galaxy soundtracks.


Orchestral music can definitely work in games.

 

[sweetmini]

Well, some people raved about these orchestral live events of FFVII music, now they got it in the remake :)
I am sure it makes a lot of these people happy.

while i was reading OP... in my head
I don't hate it, but i cannot really judge until i get the chocobo theme... i don't think we got "the other" battle music yet ...
WHAT THE FUCK (there... i wrote a swear word)
... i see the last 2 videos...
THERE WAS ... THEY FORGOT THE ROCKING MOOD
ok i hate that one.

RIP


edit:
if they didn't want to break the flow of music, at least could have given this treatment... it's the most iconic piece of music of FFVII for me


(there's still hope that the alternate versions seen in other older demos are kept not cancelled and one will be full on rock... but it would have been so much better to rock it in the demo we got to play)

 

[Tyaren]

Oof. The hot takes on this thread over orchestra music.

Here's a tip: if all orchestra music sounds generically "same" to you, there's a good chance you're listening to it with a closed mind. Try listening to some classical orchestra music, especially from the romantic, impressionist and neoclassicism eras, and try to figure out what people love about this stuff. Approach it with an open mind, and try to imagine the stories the composers are trying to tell (or look up the history on wikipedia). It'll be worth it.

The music in VII Remake doesn't come close to that level of mastery, but it's far from generic, and a familiarity with orchestral music will help you appreciate more what they've done. The soundtrack in the demo is full of clever countermelodies, masterful use of thematic lines, and effective ebbs and flows in the musical phrases. Not only is it composed well, it's also very successful at taking the original songs and translating them to fit perfectly with the new gameplay.

I really can't stress enough how a lot of people's reactions can only be explained from a place of ignorance, and I don't know why I keep trying to defend it outside of a strong passion for all the things *right* that they did with the soundtrack.

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This, so much.

Complaining about orchestral arrangements is one thing, but I better not hear any of you guys talking shit about the Super Mario Galaxy soundtracks.


Orchestral music can definitely work in games.

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So generic. ;)

 

[Bruceleeroy]

You guys are fu$&ing lunatics

 

[aidangs]

Complaining about orchestral arrangements is one thing, but I better not hear any of you guys talking shit about the Super Mario Galaxy soundtracks.


Orchestral music can definitely work in games.

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not trying to turn this into a mario galaxy ost thread but this is arguably the greatest video game song ever

 

[Veldin]

Somehow this has gone on for 10 pages without being addressed(I think)? One of the examples in the OP is wrong.

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That isn't official, it's a fan mashup that only uses a brief portion of the remake's soundtrack. Most of it is from Distant Worlds I believe. The game blends three separate tracks for the Scorpion fight.

 

[MidweekCoyote]

It's one thing to ask for a bit more outside "oomph" in some tracks (the Mako reactor regular theme would have benefited from a more electronic lead than a subverted stringed one) but man... Have I heard everything in this topic.

Orchestra music is "generic"
Symphonic metal influences are like a "shitty Youtube cover"
Orchestra is not better than synths

Imagine living in 2020, getting rich and beautiful renditions of old classics with several variations and situational dynamics included and then go: "Nah man, this is garbage. 1997 MIDI is where it's at!"

 

[Estarossa]

Somehow this has gone on for 10 pages without being addressed(I think)? One of the examples in the OP is wrong.

That isn't official, it's a fan mashup that only uses a brief portion of the remake's soundtrack. Most of it is from Distant Worlds I believe. The game blends three separate tracks for the Scorpion fight.

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L-O-L

Here's the official version from the Vinyl (lovely btw)

 

[Nakenorm]

Oof. The hot takes on this thread over orchestra music.

Here's a tip: if all orchestra music sounds generically "same" to you, there's a good chance you're listening to it with a closed mind. Try listening to some classical orchestra music, especially from the romantic, impressionist and neoclassicism eras, and try to figure out what people love about this stuff. Approach it with an open mind, and try to imagine the stories the composers are trying to tell (or look up the history on wikipedia). It'll be worth it.

The music in VII Remake doesn't come close to that level of mastery, but it's far from generic, and a familiarity with orchestral music will help you appreciate more what they've done. The soundtrack in the demo is full of clever countermelodies, masterful use of thematic lines, and effective ebbs and flows in the musical phrases. Not only is it composed well, it's also very successful at taking the original songs and translating them to fit perfectly with the new gameplay.

I really can't stress enough how a lot of people's reactions can only be explained from a place of ignorance, and I don't know why I keep trying to defend it outside of a strong passion for all the things *right* that they did with the soundtrack.

Click to shrink...

 

[Calvarok]

tim roger's pre-review said it sounded like someone on soundcloud being like "hey i made an orchestral version of ff7's music" and after listening to the comparisons i agree.

apparently some people are taking this as an insult against orchestral music, but like, no. it's more that the original music wasn't trying to be orchestral in EVERY track.

The issue isn't that the music isn't good, it's that it aint hitting the same vibes.

and it's very "Video Games" to decide that everything must be a highly produced orchestral track in order to feel like a legitimate Big Boy Remake.

Anyways I don't play final fantasy or rpgs in general so i don't actually have any emotional attachment to this. just pointing out what people who have an issue with this are actually saying.

 

[hateradio]

I definitely wish they had done something substantial with the synths. Not everything needs an orchestra.

 

[Pascal]

...I just want more bells and synths in the Mako Reactor theme that's all. I absolutely do not approve of this "Orchestral music is generic" bullshit and I would like to officially distance myself from such idiotic talk. I love the Remake soundtrack so far. The new Bombing Mission theme is fucking killer. And I like the new Mako Reactor theme more now that I've listened to it outside of the game. I just prefer the original still. I really hope they do the JENOVA theme justice cause damn I love that song in the original.

 

[Basslover]

From what I've heard in the demo, the music and audio implementation should win awards, it's leagues above most soundtracks this gen. The reactor theme transitioning into a reactor battle theme was just *mwah*, and the ~5 different music transitions during the scorpion boss must've taken a crazy amount of time to implement and make work correctly. All the other transitions are similarly expertly done, and I find myself humming the new melodies in their new arrangements after only one playthrough, that's how memorable they are.

So suffice it to say, coming from someone with a degree in music composition, all the armchair "experts" with their negative opinions in this thread really confuse me. But I guess every new artistic thing will have haters, as always.

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As a lowly peasant who only played instruments as hobby, I think its important to differentiate between the mastery of song transitions and the way the dynamic soundtrack was implemented from the choices done during the arrangements of the songs, like which instruments to emphasize/de-emphasize, length, modulation and delay effects that can affect the "ambiance" and actually the volume level in the output in the game versus voice and vfx.

So I think their work in making the songs fit and transition between scenes in the game is amazing, I like some of the new arrangements, I'm OK with some other ones and there are some I don't particularly like or think they hit what the original song was going for. But it is something new and there are plenty more songs to listen so, I'm keeping my mind open.

 

[Kouriozan]

It definitely lost some charm compared to the PS1 game, what we gained in return is a more cinematic experience.

 

[Swift_Gamer]

tim roger's pre-review said it sounded like someone on soundcloud being like "hey i made an orchestral version of ff7's music" and after listening to the comparisons i agree.

apparently some people are taking this as an insult against orchestral music, but like, no. it's more that the original music wasn't trying to be orchestral in EVERY track.

The issue isn't that the music isn't good, it's that it aint hitting the same vibes.

and it's very "Video Games" to decide that everything must be a highly produced orchestral track in order to feel like a legitimate Big Boy Remake.

Anyways I don't play final fantasy or rpgs in general so i don't actually have any emotional attachment to this. just pointing out what people who have an issue with this are actually saying.

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This.

 

[IneptEMP]

The orchestrated tracks are just less distinct than the originals. Where are the synth tracks? The soundtrack hasn't been improved just because more money was spent creating it

 

[SPRidley]

The problem is not that is not "synthetic" or "orchestrated", the problem is the use of instruments in the live instrument versions now.
Synthetic fake instruments in a game like this ala ps4 DQ11 should be a sin. It also would be a sin now in games like 3d marios or mario kart.
The "orchestrations" using live isntruments in this game though, should have space for electric guitars and the like, just like they do in games like mario kart 8. They went for complete classic instruments, and thats the problem here.

 

[Jarmel]

Yea, some of the rearrangements aren't that great. I also think the sound mixing is occasionally off.

 

[Arebours]

orchestral remixes is about the most dull and predictable thing you can do with video game music.

 

[Yarbskoo]

It's not like it has to be one or the other. You can combine synth with traditional orchestral instruments to get a unique sound.

 

[fourfourfun]

I like the new OST in the context of for the new game, it is another way in which the original game retains its unique flavour. The one thing I hope for the most is that that clunkly little set of polygons still stands on its own two feet once the remake comes out. The both appear to be walking a different path, so this seems so.

 

[jett]

orchestral remixes is about the most dull and predictable thing you can do with video game music.

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But the vast majority of FF7's soundtrack was trying to replicate the sound of a real orchestra/real instruments? Why wouldn't they arrange the music in this way?

 

[Cogg]

I don't think the orchestrated music is bad by any stretch, it's actually for the most part phenomenal. That being said I'm a sucker for the OG soundtrack and prefer it. That's nostalgia though, hard to get past it. Maybe by the end of the remake my tune will change.

 

[Coríu]

I agree with you, OP. The choice to make everything orchestral is just tacky.

It makes everything sound same-y, a disservice to Uematsu's eclectic approach. And it detracts from the post-industrial atmosphere that was such an important part of the original game's charm.

I found it genuinely distracting while playing.

 

[Coríu]

Oof. The hot takes on this thread over orchestra music.

Here's a tip: if all orchestra music sounds generically "same" to you, there's a good chance you're listening to it with a closed mind. Try listening to some classical orchestra music, especially from the romantic, impressionist and neoclassicism eras, and try to figure out what people love about this stuff. Approach it with an open mind, and try to imagine the stories the composers are trying to tell (or look up the history on wikipedia). It'll be worth it.

The music in VII Remake doesn't come close to that level of mastery, but it's far from generic, and a familiarity with orchestral music will help you appreciate more what they've done. The soundtrack in the demo is full of clever countermelodies, masterful use of thematic lines, and effective ebbs and flows in the musical phrases. Not only is it composed well, it's also very successful at taking the original songs and translating them to fit perfectly with the new gameplay.

I really can't stress enough how a lot of people's reactions can only be explained from a place of ignorance, and I don't know why I keep trying to defend it outside of a strong passion for all the things *right* that they did with the soundtrack.

Click to shrink...

What? I'm passionate about classical music. This ain't it just because it happens to use the same instruments. It's a bunch of obvious, mediocre orchestral arrangements for music that was never intended for that setup. It does sound generic, same-y and bloated, and it's not necessarily because they're using an orchestra, it's because of how they're overusing it without the desirable nuance or imagination. They just applied a YouTube cover mentality with a big budget to what was a unique work and an accomplished exercise in eclecticism.

 

[Narroo]

I don't mean on a budgetary level ambition. I mean creatively. It sounds like they got someone to do it who just goes by the currently very popular anime "high octave string hell" type of orchestral. I'm also impressed by the breadth of music and the fact that it's melodic and not the cop-out textural soundtrack you hear all over AAA these days, but instrumentally I think it's kind of uninspired.

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Or in other words: It's a "throw money at it" kind of sound track.

What? I'm passionate about classical music. This ain't it just because it happens to use the same instruments. It's a bunch of obvious, mediocre orchestral arrangements for music that was never intended for that setup. It does sound generic, same-y and bloated, and that doesn't have anything to do with the choice of instruments or style. They just applied a YouTube cover mentality with a big budget to what was a unique work and an accomplished exercise in eclecticism.

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Thank you!

The issue here is a lot of people on resetera tend to have oddly low standards for specific things they like -- particularly action games and movies -- and then yell at you for criticizing the the thing.

"Avenger's Endgame was an okay movie, but not award worthy."
"HOW DARE YOU!"

"Kingdom Hearts has terrible writing."
"HOW DARE YOU! Kingdom Hearts has perfectly fine writing and you're just a hater!" (This last one actually happened to me personally!)

It's a bit annoying because often times it boils down to the other person simply dismissing the idea of having standards, as opposed to having a different opinion.

 

[FlaygletheBagel]

It's one thing to ask for a bit more outside "oomph" in some tracks (the Mako reactor regular theme would have benefited from a more electronic lead than a subverted stringed one) but man... Have I heard everything in this topic.

Orchestra music is "generic"
Symphonic metal influences are like a "shitty Youtube cover"
Orchestra is not better than synths

Imagine living in 2020, getting rich and beautiful renditions of old classics with several variations and situational dynamics included and then go: "Nah man, this is garbage. 1997 MIDI is where it's at!"

Click to shrink...

Ha!! Yeah I'm amazed this is as much of a debate as it is. I didn't have the nostalgia for the original OST a lot of folks here probably have (the first time I played FFVII was last year). But the orchestral soundtrack almost took my breath away in some parts of the demo, it's sweeping and intense in such a fun way. The last thing I expected was for people to shit on it like in the quotes you mentioned, but then again, this is Resetera.

 

[Vitet]

Complaining about orchestral arrangements is one thing, but I better not hear any of you guys talking shit about the Super Mario Galaxy soundtracks.


Orchestral music can definitely work in games.

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Yes, I'm with you but:

I will always prefer the original music, purely because it has nestled its way into my brain as some of the most perfect music ever and have listened to it regularly since it came out.

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Here is what really is happening with this thread. A lot of people that say "this could had been done better", "if they put more synth...", "they could respected better the idea of the original"... would never be happy, because in the end all the new songs have one problem. They are not the old songs.
As a composer, my clients tend to like my music more and more after each listen, and it happens to me too. Imagine when you hear a soundtrack for more than twenty years non-stop. It's ingrained in your brain and anything that just sounds different would be bad automatically.

I would wait more time and a lot more hearings to the songs to form an opinion as strong as the ones ITT.

 

[Coríu]

Thank you!

The issue here is a lot of people on resetera tend to have oddly low standards for specific things they like -- particularly action games and movies -- and then yell at you for criticizing the the thing.

"Avenger's Endgame was an okay movie, but not award worthy."
"HOW DARE YOU!"

"Kingdom Hearts has terrible writing."
"HOW DARE YOU! Kingdom Hearts has perfectly fine writing and you're just a hater!" (This last one actually happened to me personally!)

It's a bit annoying because often times it boils down to the other person simply dismissing the idea of having standards, as opposed to having a different opinion.

Click to shrink...

I guess it's a problem with fandoms and a lack of critical thinking. I wish we all learned that you can enjoy stuff while still being open to discuss its flaws or trying to understand people's criticism.

Standards are necessary if we want games to continue evolving as a medium.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Jim Sterling best explained my feelings towards the new soundtrack in his Jimpressions of the game:



It lacks punch. The actual melodies are subdued and buried under layers upon layers of orchestral instrumentation. They lost their distinctiveness, their bite. Now it's just... bland.

 

[Yarbskoo]

Yes, I'm with you but:


Here is what really is happening with this thread. A lot of people that say "this could had been done better", "if they put more synth...", "they could respected better the idea of the original"... would never be happy, because in the end all the new songs have one problem. They are not the old songs.
As a composer, my clients tend to like my music more and more after each listen, and it happens to me too. Imagine when you hear a soundtrack for more than twenty years non-stop. It's ingrained in your brain and anything that just sounds different would be bad automatically.

I would wait more time and a lot more hearings to the songs to form an opinion as strong as the ones ITT.

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I guess that's the double edged sword of making a new thing based on an old thing. You're appealing to people's fondness for the original, while also having to live up to something that's deeply ingrained in people's minds over years or even decades.

 

[Tetsujin]

People have heard maybe a handful of tracks from what is going to be at least a hundred and are already making blanket statements.

Comparing the original boss theme to the Scorpion Sentinel track is also nonsense as that is a track unique to VIIR. It's a mashup of the boss theme and Bombing Mission. A track like that didn't exist in the original. Oh, and Scorpion Sentinel absolutely does include e-guitars at some point too!

 

[coldsagging]

From what I've heard I think they've done a good job re imagining one of the most iconic soundtracks in gaming history from 20 years ago.

Can't be easy striking that balance of keeping them familiar but fresh. The tracks on the demo were good.

 

[Fat4all]

most of my non online friends are FF14 fiends

but that's not my bag

 

[Nec]

I never played the original and a really liked the soundtrack on the demo, when the title appeared it gave me chills ngl.
It's far for generic, you guys are just drove by nostalgia, and it's just the first fucking hour of the whole game jeez

 

[RyuCookingSomeRice]

Its not surprising SE would mess this "remake" up. Now the music is bad too haha.

 

[Estarossa]

People have heard maybe a handful of tracks from what is going to be at least a hundred and are already making blanket statements.

Comparing the original boss theme to the Scorpion Sentinel track is also nonsense as that is a track unique to VIIR. It's a mashup of the boss theme and Bombing Mission. A track like that didn't exist in the original. Oh, and Scorpion Sentinel absolutely does include e-guitars at some point too!

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There's also that incredible bassline... but like know one cares about bass guitars

 

[whytemyke]

I get that people want every RPG to be Persona 5 when it comes to score, and that's fine. But I'm not about to sit here and tell Nobuo Uematsu what it takes to make a good video game soundtrack/score.

The biggest question for me is whether they're going to be able to withold One Winged Angel until the end of the game (like it was in FF7) or if, since that's the most iconic track from the original game (and arguably any FF game) will they try to shoehorn that into this first game.

Its not surprising SE would mess this "remake" up. Now the music is bad too haha.

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Nobody has said they've messed it up and the debate is whether people prefer the original synth soundtrack to an orchestral version. But sure, bring in some totally unnecessary hyperbole. Why not?

 

[Monsterqken]

Jim Sterling best explained my feelings towards the new soundtrack in his Jimpressions of the game:



It lacks punch. The actual melodies are subdued and buried under layers upon layers of orchestral instrumentation. They lost their distinctiveness, their bite. Now it's just... bland.

Click to shrink...

Have you listened to the leaked soundtrack? There are many versions and plenty with different instrumentation.

 

[jett]

I get that people want every RPG to be Persona 5 when it comes to score, and that's fine. But I'm not about to sit here and tell Nobuo Uematsu what it takes to make a good video game soundtrack/score.

The biggest question for me is whether they're going to be able to withold One Winged Angel until the end of the game (like it was in FF7) or if, since that's the most iconic track from the original game (and arguably any FF game) will they try to shoehorn that into this first game.

Click to shrink...

They already put bits on it in the opening movie and have shoehorned appearances of Sephiroth throughout Midgar.

They're going full fan service with the remake, appropriately so. I definitely would expect a version of OWA in there.

 

[Rai_11]

As I was playing my head bobber to bell sounds that are now missing sadly in the Midgar Reactor music.