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Rory

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,159
What you did is support a puppy mill/someone who irresponsibly breeds with puppies.

Puppies are expensive because you need to run genetic tests on parents, feed them high quality food with good nutritions give them shoots, deworm them, make sure they are in good health. A full priced dog does not get a breeder the money back.

If someone sells a at a reduced price or even give away one for free, it means they skipped on one or all of the previous investments.

Especially the fact that they gave you two puppies is really a give away that they just wanted to get rid of them. Two (same age) puppies are a really bad idea.

If you want a cheap puppy, you should check shelters and not craiglist.
I hope you will go to the vet asap, hopefully they did not (yet) catch Parvo... else it will be a very expensive and painful lesson you gonna learn.
 
OP
OP
Tapiozona

Tapiozona

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,253
What you did is support a puppy mill/someone who irresponsibly breeds with puppies.

Puppies are expensive because you need to run genetic tests on parents, feed them high quality food with good nutritions give them shoots, deworm them, make sure they are in good health. A full priced dog does not get a breeder the money back.

If someone sells a at a reduced price or even give away one for free, it means they skipped on one or all of the previous investments.

Especially the fact that they gave you two puppies is really a give away that they just wanted to get rid of them. Two (same age) puppies are a really bad idea.

If you want a cheap puppy, you should check shelters and not craiglist.
I hope you will go to the vet asap, hopefully they did not (yet) catch Parvo... else it will be a very expensive and painful lesson you gonna learn.
See my last post Post #50

They were selling a full litter of puppies, not two and the prices, even for breeders, range heavily. The one we were waiting for was overly expensive because it was AKC certified so relative to that this was cheap. The person I bought them from lived on a ranch and the parents were both working dogs and he had more than ample proof of that (had both parents with him and videos galore of them working on the ranch which is in Wikiup, AZ (bfe part of Arizona where there's nothing but ranchers)). The puppies both have their first rounds of shots (parvo and deworming and I have records for both of them). If anything the person I bought these dogs from was a far better border collie owner than the 'reputable' breeder who lived in a small subdivision home and was breeding the dogs for money. He just wasn't a breeder, but a rancher, hence the lower price.

14E1Nvb.jpg
 

Faenix1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,114
Canada
Wow. What's it like having five dogs? I have two and have been up and down constantly about a Bernese Mountain Dog. I already have two, and I'm not sure how three would work out.. lol (MY OG dog would be fine, but I ended up saving one from a bad situation and she's.. I'm not sure how that would go :/)


What you did is support a puppy mill/someone who irresponsibly breeds with puppies.

Puppies are expensive because you need to run genetic tests on parents, feed them high quality food with good nutritions give them shoots, deworm them, make sure they are in good health. A full priced dog does not get a breeder the money back.

If someone sells a at a reduced price or even give away one for free, it means they skipped on one or all of the previous investments.

Especially the fact that they gave you two puppies is really a give away that they just wanted to get rid of them. Two (same age) puppies are a really bad idea.

If you want a cheap puppy, you should check shelters and not craiglist.
I hope you will go to the vet asap, hopefully they did not (yet) catch Parvo... else it will be a very expensive and painful lesson you gonna learn.

Not everyone is a backdoor breeder/puppy mill. There are ways to tell who not to buy from, especially ones that don't offer first shots.

I got my dog, fairly cheap, from someone that had an accidental litter. Came with first shots. Best decision I ever made in the last 4 years. Rescued a dog from an abusive home when my puppy died, and I'm not sure I'd ever do that again. lol
 
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chezzymann

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,042
Border collies are my favorite breed. Unfortunately I live in an apartment and will have to wait until i get a house to own one. Would be animal abuse to have a collie in an 800 foot apartment imo.

My parents border collie, patches, played fetch for over an hour in her heyday. Shes old now (14) and can only last a few throws.

6owFCu2.jpg
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,466
What you did is support a puppy mill/someone who irresponsibly breeds with puppies.

Puppies are expensive because you need to run genetic tests on parents, feed them high quality food with good nutritions give them shoots, deworm them, make sure they are in good health. A full priced dog does not get a breeder the money back.

If someone sells a at a reduced price or even give away one for free, it means they skipped on one or all of the previous investments.

Especially the fact that they gave you two puppies is really a give away that they just wanted to get rid of them. Two (same age) puppies are a really bad idea.

If you want a cheap puppy, you should check shelters and not craiglist.
I hope you will go to the vet asap, hopefully they did not (yet) catch Parvo... else it will be a very expensive and painful lesson you gonna learn.

Talk about being incredibly presumptuous and self-righteous.
 

Rory

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,159
See my last post Post #50

They were selling a full litter of puppies, not two and the prices, even for breeders, range heavily. The one we were waiting for was overly expensive because it was AKC certified so relative to that this was cheap. The person I bought them from lived on a ranch and the parents were both working dogs and he had more than ample proof of that (had both parents with him and videos galore of them working on the ranch which is in Wikiup, AZ (bfe part of Arizona where there's nothing but ranchers)). The puppies both have their first rounds of shots (parvo and deworming and I have records for both of them). If anything the person I bought these dogs from was a far better border collie owner than the 'reputable' breeder who lived in a small subdivision home and was breeding the dogs for money. He just wasn't a breeder, but a rancher, hence the lower price.

14E1Nvb.jpg
While you might have seen the parents, that does not mean the babies are healthy. Did you see the medical papers of the parent dogs?

Tests for CEA, PLL, PRA, GCS, NCL, HD... these are just a few.

The reason why dogs from official breeders are more expensive, are because they have fees to be part andare able to carry the label. The label means that the dogs are all tested for diseases, live in controlled homes that meet guidelines etc.

Of course even a breeders dog can end up sick, but they take all precautions as possible to limit the possibility that your border collie ends up with seizures.

A responsible person would never give tWo puppies into one home.

Not everyone is a backdoor breeder/puppy mill. There are ways to tell who not to buy from, especially ones that don't offer first shots.

I got my dog, fairly cheap, from someone that had an accidental litter. Came with first shots. Best decision I ever made in the last 4 years. Rescued a dog from an abusive home when my puppy died, and I'm not sure I'd ever do that again. lol
There is no such thing as accidental litter. You can fix the dog before hand, and even if the dog ends up pregnant there are ways to cancel the pregnancy too.

If someone has an "accidental litter" he either was irresponsibly not watching the dog during heat and wanted to save the money (as in not fixing the dog) or to cancel pregnancy/decided to earn some money with the puppies. And cancelling pregnancy is not a huge thing, there is no op needed.
 
OP
OP
Tapiozona

Tapiozona

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,253
Wow. What's it like having five dogs? I have two and have been up and down constantly about a Bernese Mountain Dog. I already have two, and I'm not sure how three would work out.. lol (MY OG dog would be fine, but I ended up saving one from a bad situation and she's.. I'm not sure how that would go :/)

We've always had a lot of dogs so at this point it's really just normal for us. The only issue we really have is all of our dogs are rescues and a lot of them have some sort of issue (behavior, medical, deaf, etc) so they're more work than most dogs. Also, outside of our first two dogs who recently passed away (we got them as puppies at the same time), the dogs don't really play with each other. They were all adopted years apart and didn't bond as puppies so they're more like roommates who are cool with each other.

When we had our son, Ill admit that having 4 dogs was pretty hard but now that he's a bit older (7), we've found our groove again. We wanted to get 2 dogs at a young age so my son would have his own dog that bonded with him but also so the dogs would bond with each other like our original 2 did.

Dog poop is by far the worst part. We have a dog run with a patch of fake grass and if it's not picked up daily and rinsed every weekend it can smell pretty gnarly. I remember a particularly busy time when no one cleaned the dog run for a month....NEVER again. We're religious about cleaning it now.

Also vet bills could be an issue. You may get lucky and have healthy dogs that require nothing outside of regular checkups, cleanings, and vaccinations. Or you may have 2 dogs that both require surgery or something very expensive at the same time and it can hit hard financially. We take our dogs to spay neuter clinics which are WAAAY cheaper than regular vets for things like teeth cleanings, shots, and spay/neutering. We also used dog insurance in the past but cancelled because it was pretty expensive and got more expensive as the dogs aged. They also didn't cover all that much. Instead my wife puts 30 and I put 50 bucks per paycheck into our rainy-day pet account. We've had a positive balance for 10 years and actually had enough to use it on other things like a vacation. (its hovering near 6-7k right now)

Long as you love dogs and have the space and time for them, go crazy. It's not double the work to have 2 dogs vs one..I feel like each addition takes less and less work with only a marginal increase in effort with a MASSIVE increase in joy. We'll likely end up with 4 dogs if we don't keep both puppies. Our current herd is;
  • Bruno - 12ish year old German Shepard mix we rescued from the streets. He had a rough life and was severely abused by someone, lived on the streets for months, and was hit by a car (all before we had him).
  • Banjo - Beautiful 11 year old Border Collie who had severe behavior issues. He's a lot better now but we have to always be vigilant with as he's bitten people in the distant past
  • Winnie - 9 month old Chihuahua we got from a rescue. We've only had her for a month and the new puppy was supposed to be her bro/best friend.
  • Unnamed Puppy #1
  • Unnamed Puppy #2
Border collies are my favorite breed. Unfortunately I live in an apartment and will have to wait until i get a house to own one. Would be animal abuse to have a collie in an 800 foot apartment imo.

My parents border collie, patches, played fetch for over an hour in her heyday. Shes old now (14) and can only last a few throws.

6owFCu2.jpg

Beautiful dog! In the future I definitely want a chocolate border collie.
Makes sense to wait. Honestly we have a large house but our yard is really small and not the most dog friendly but we live right across the street from a giant park so they basically have a multi-acre grass yard which I don't need to maintain. When they're home they just lay around and barely even step into 90% of our houses square footage.

While you might have seen the parents, that does not mean the babies are healthy. Did you see the medical papers of the parent dogs?

Tests for CEA, PLL, PRA, GCS, NCL, HD... these are just a few.

The reason why dogs from official breeders are more expensive, are because they have fees to be part andare able to carry the label. The label means that the dogs are all tested for diseases, live in controlled homes that meet guidelines etc.

Of course even a breeders dog can end up sick, but they take all precautions as possible to limit the possibility that your border collie ends up with seizures.

A responsible person would never give tWo puppies into one home.


There is no such thing as accidental litter. You can fix the dog before hand, and even if the dog ends up pregnant there are ways to cancel the pregnancy too.

If someone has an "accidental litter" he either was irresponsibly not watching the dog during heat and wanted to save the money (as in not fixing the dog) or to cancel pregnancy/decided to earn some money with the puppies. And cancelling pregnancy is not a huge thing, there is no op needed.

Go be negative elsewhere. If the puppies are sick, we'll invest whatever time, effort, and money necessary to help them.
So judgemental..a responsible person would never give two puppies into one home? Why? Because they'll bond with each other more than with their humans? None of the breeders we spoke with had any issues selling multiple puppies, especially once they knew we already had a large pack so there's little chance they'll only bond with each other, not their humans.
 
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Dreamseller

Member
Oct 28, 2017
20
Dog poop is by far the worst part. We have a dog run with a patch of fake grass and if it's not picked up daily and rinsed every weekend it can smell pretty gnarly. I remember a particularly busy time when no one cleaned the dog run for a month....NEVER again. We're religious about cleaning it now.

Don't you walk the dogs or why do they have to poop on a piece of fake grass?
 

Rory

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,159
So judgemental..a responsible person would never give two puppies into one home? Why? Because they'll bond with each other more than with their humans? None of the breeders we spoke with had any issues selling multiple puppies, especially once they knew we already had a large pack so there's little chance they'll only bond with each other, not their humans.
because, especially at young age, they will orientate more on each other than the owner (its the constance that stayed the same). Education is then more difficult and must be done separately because else they fall back into old behavioural patterns.

And if its just a few month in between, 2 puppies shouldn't be given away at once.

That your current dogs didn't bond as you expected them to, is simply a question of character. Even siblings can be like "fuck off", blood link does not guarantee a good relationship in later life.
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,794
??
Same thing happened to me. We lost our dog, Mumford, last year and we were obviously heartbroken. We decided to go to the shelter to "LOOK" at some cats that may need homes (we already had two) and found two adorable kitten brothers who had been rescued from a hoarding situation. We were only going to take one, but the family behind us had a young kid that was screeching and freaking out the kittens so we decided to take both.

Now they're over a year old and really big! Best decision tbh, I'm really glad we took both since they're really close and happy. We named them Maverick and Goose.
 

Stone Cold

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,466
While you might have seen the parents, that does not mean the babies are healthy. Did you see the medical papers of the parent dogs?

Tests for CEA, PLL, PRA, GCS, NCL, HD... these are just a few.

The reason why dogs from official breeders are more expensive, are because they have fees to be part andare able to carry the label. The label means that the dogs are all tested for diseases, live in controlled homes that meet guidelines etc.

Of course even a breeders dog can end up sick, but they take all precautions as possible to limit the possibility that your border collie ends up with seizures.

A responsible person would never give tWo puppies into one home.


There is no such thing as accidental litter. You can fix the dog before hand, and even if the dog ends up pregnant there are ways to cancel the pregnancy too.

If someone has an "accidental litter" he either was irresponsibly not watching the dog during heat and wanted to save the money (as in not fixing the dog) or to cancel pregnancy/decided to earn some money with the puppies. And cancelling pregnancy is not a huge thing, there is no op needed.
You must be a joy at parties