Ocarina of Time or Final Fantasy VII; Which was more influential?

[Solid SOAP]

In the late 90s, two games were released which changed the scope of gaming forever.

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time created an explorable 3D space for gamers like no other. "Z-Targeting" changed the way we approach obstacles in 3D games to a degree where we still see said feature in games today, and the world was immersive to the point where we could literally look around our environment in a 1st person perspective. This was done all while crafting nearly a dozen intricately woven dungeons that were challenging and fun to explore for players, not to mention the cohesive 3D world which was again a first for the medium.

Final Fantasy VII holds a different, yet similarly impactful legacy. This game was one of the first ever to combine CGI cutscenes with rich characters and world development within a video game. These feats were all accomplished while iterating on innovations from previous titles in the series, ultimately creating a game that was able to combine tried and true rich gameplay with a story unprecedented in gaming.

--

So, between the two, which do you think had the greater impact on the scope of gaming?

I'm choosing Ocarina of Time, as I believe its gameplay innovations (targeting NPCs/enemies, exploring 3D space, etc.) will outlast the impact of Final Fantasy VII's innovations. Many games today tell great stories, but not every game needs to tell a story to fulfill its purpose as a game. However, I'm confident that almost every 3D game that came out after Ocarina of Time must've had SOME kind of inspiration from that game, be it looking at things in a first person perspective, targeting, etc.

Alternatively, if you played both on or near release, which game left a greater impact on you at the time?

 

[Dolce]

Games like Final Fantasy VII were extremely important in terms of bringing a new generation of female gamers into the scene. The importance of FFVII and future RPGs really cannot be understated in terms of that.

Edit: Just to make it more clear, I don't say this thinking that Ocarina of Time is less responsible, just that it's harder to quantify versus what we know of the popularity of JRPGs with women and of course anecdotal experiences. I don't think FFVII is more influential, but I also don't think it's less. I didn't end up voting in the poll for that because figuring out what is more or less influential is tough.

 

[Transistor]

Definitely Ocarina of Time, for many of the reasons you mentioned.

Final Fantasy VII is an amazing game, but for the most part it's just the same thing in 3D.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Games like Final Fantasy VII were extremely important in terms of bringing a new generation of female gamers into the scene. The importance of FFVII and future RPGs really cannot be understated in terms of that.

Click to shrink...

I'm noticing this as I play Final Fantasy VII now. I have always loved Zelda, but the fact that FFVII let's you take charge as several female protagonists must've been huge for the time.

 

[Deleted member 59109]

OoT. I didn't play either of these during the time of release, and I admit I don't like JRPGs so might be biased, but I just see OoT mentioned a lot more. I feel like FF7 might have been mostly impactful for people who like JRPGs, while OoT was more influential to a wider audience.

 

[Henry Jones Jr]

Ocarina probably hard the larger impact on the industry by quite a margin.

FF7 had a larger impact on me personally.

 

[Indelible]

This is tough, FF VII opened the floodgates for JRPGs in North America but Ocarina perfected movement in 3D. I might lean towards FF VII because we might not have gotten a lot of the Japanese games we did without it.

 

[Deleted member 10737]

OoT influenced pretty much all 3D action adventure games that came after it, so that.

 

[Zeal543]

OoT, and it's not even close

 

[Ultima_5]

OoT. set the standard for how to make a 3d action game. stuff like lock on and what not are still used today.

FF7 was huge , and introduced many people to RPGs, but that would've happened anyway in a year or two when pokemon came out.

Games like Final Fantasy VII were extremely important in terms of bringing a new generation of female gamers into the scene. The importance of FFVII and future RPGs really cannot be understated in terms of that.

Click to shrink...

basis of this? i feel like many female gamers love zelda. its not like FF primarily targets women.

 

[Dark Knight]

Honestly that's a tough call. I'm going to say OoT for revolutionizing 3D gameplay, FF7 for cinematic and deep story, and popularizing the JRPG genre. So, both are just as influential but in very different ways.

 

[DrForester]

Ocarina of Time and it's not close at all.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find ANY game more influential than OoT. OoT is the framework for how 3d action/adventure games are made to this day.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I feel like FFVII's main innovations have largely become completely entirely obsolete since they were largely based around the way it used stuff like pre rendered environments and the like to make more impressive presentation with the hardware of the time, but most of those solutions have been completely abandoned in the modern era where those hardware limitations aren't really necessary anymore.

 

[Another]

FFVII's influence cannot be understated... but it's obviously OoT.

 

[Biggersmaller]

Ocarina of Time. It was the first the 3rd person adventure game with an open-world in 3D. FFVII, while a game I thoroughly enjoyed - was very similar to a 16-bit JRPG with added cutscenes.

The choice that haunts me is MGS vs Ocarina.

 

[DrDarkStryfe]

Final Fantasy 7 sold a lot of PlayStation's and was pretty instrumental in making it the best selling console of that generation.

 

[Cactuar]

Final Fantasy VII changed JRPGs forever, not only how they were created, but made them popular outside of Japan. It also helped the Sony PlayStation rule that generation even though it was the new kid on the block. It's one of the games that made the PlayStation. This is all in addition to what it did for the JRPG genre.

 

[Iori Loco]

Ocarina. A singe button having multiple actions based on context, z targeting, even some items like the hookshot, or a bunch of puzzles have been ripped off in other games.

 

[Irikan]

Oot, not even close.

 

[Rickenslacker]

I don't think of OoT as being influential as I see a lot of its stated influence to be eventualities. Mega Man Legends had lock on beforehand, for instance. Other games had you capable of looking around in first person while not being first person games, like Metal Gear Solid. So I don't see OoT as having any overt influence rather than perhaps bringing up the expectations of quality.

 

[ghibli99]

I might be over-simplifying it, but it feels like we've moved past a lot of the design elements of FF7, but a lot of games still use a lot of the core things that were in Ocarina. At the time though, both were simply powerhouse titles that made each of their respective platforms must-owns. At the time, I think FF7 deserves the most credit for essentially blowing the doors wide-open on JRPGs becoming far more popular worldwide, and the importance/impact of that can't be understated.

 

[Ovvv]

FF7 (and MGS) did a ton for the dominant movie-style-narratives that exist today so I'mma have to go with that. Also opened the floodgates for JRPGs in the West.

A lot of the stuff being attributed to OoT in this thread was done by prior games. Not exactly by niche franchises, either lol

 

[Deleted member 76797]

Z targeting is still widely used and fucking brilliant. I wonder what gaming would be like right now if we never got SM64 and OoT.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Today, I feel that the JRPG genre isn't huge, but turn and luck based combat and systems are. So many mobile titles use turn based combat and have luck related systems that wouldn't exist without the popularity of Final Fantasy games.

 

[Dogui]

FFVII is more influential in terms of production values. It's pretty much the first actual AAA game, with some huge investment in marketing and stuff. It's the original videogame super production. But in a gameplay perspective, it's not exactly a huge influence, as you could say even Jrpgs in general were not super inspired on it in a mechanical level, tho they obviously copied the cinematic flow, cg cutscenes and etc...

Ocarina of Time is more influential as a 3D game that molded much of the level design style we see nowadays. It's a lot more influential than FFVII in a pure gameplay perspective.

 

[Jon God]

Both?

Cinematic gaming with set pieces wouldn't be the same without Final Fantasy VII, and lock on systems wouldn't be the same without Zelda64.

 

[Ovvv]

Z targeting is still widely used and fucking brilliant. I wonder what gaming would be like right now if we never got SM64 and OoT.

Click to shrink...

Z targetting already existed in Mega Man Legends. Did it just as good, too.

It also did big 3D adventure with dungeons and an interconnected world before OoT, too.

 

[jikevgw]

You can add resident evil Mario 64 and mgs to that list

 

[Charred Knight]

Final Fantasy VII was one of the main reasons why Playstation won that generation, was a massive change in how the stories of games are shown with its extensive use of cutscenes, the story had an actual political view being expressed, was the first game to be sold mainly with the use of commercial, and cause a massive boost in popularity for JRPGs. Like the spiritual successor Suikoden made more money on kickstarter than the Spiritual Successor to Megaman.

Ocraina of Time wasnt even the most revolutionary game on the N64, Super Mario 64 was.

 

[Alek]

Ocarina of Time by a mile.

 

[jikevgw]

Also gta3

 

[jonjonaug]

OOT and it's not even remotely close. Basically any third-person action game (and stuff in lots of other genres) afterward has taken something from it.

• One of the first major 3D open world games with attention placed on detail instead of size (not procedurally generated like early Elder Scrolls games).
• The camera system
• Context sensitive buttons
• Z-targeting and the general flow of combat
• Horseback riding (some kind of vehicle in a 3D open world game with unique mechanics that isn't just "you move faster" like Daggerfall's horses)
• All of the cutscenes are rendered entirely in-engine, something not even Metal Gear Solid did (MGS was mostly in-engine but used Codec and some other stuff to get around technical limitations and budget constraints). The way the cutscenes were staged was also really novel for the time.

Probably some other stuff I'm forgetting too. There's a quote from the VP of Rockstar that goes somethiing like "Anyone who makes 3D games who says they haven't taken something from Mario 64 or OOT is lying" and it's the truth.

 

[Undeniablybiased]

Yeah, for the business side of things, FFVII.

For game design, OoT.

 

[Jhey Cyphre]

FFVII is more influential in terms of production values. It's pretty much the first actual AAA game, with some huge investment in marketing and stuff. It's the original videogame super production. But in a gameplay perspective, it's not exactly a huge influence, as you could say even Jrpgs in general were not super inspired on it in a mechanical level, tho they obviously copied the cinematic flow, cg cutscenes and etc...

Ocarina of Time is more influential as a 3D game that molded much of the level design style we see nowadays. It's a lot more influential than FFVII in a pure gameplay perspective.

Click to shrink...

Took the words right out of my mouth. I don't see the blueprints of FFVII all over JRPGs in the same way I see OoT all over... basically everything.

 

[Ovvv]

Took the words right out of my mouth. I don't see the blueprints of FFVII all over JRPGs in the same way I see OoT all over... basically everything.

Click to shrink...

Any video game with a big focus on cinematic style storytelling has FF7 DNA. You see that blueprint everywhere, not just in RPGs.

 

[twdnewh]

OoT, and it's not even close

Click to shrink...

Yup

 

[Jencks]

Ocarina of Time. The dungeons honestly feel like the first time anyone nailed 3D level design in an adventure game at that point. Not to mention other things like combat and general structure.

 

[Jhey Cyphre]

Any video game with a big focus on cinematic style storytelling has FF7 DNA. You see that blueprint everywhere, not just in RPGs.

Click to shrink...

I don't see this at all. To me, FFVII was just the natural translation of what came before it with a prettier visual veneer. Games like FFVI and Chrono Trigger already had elaborate cinematic cutscenes.

 

[Deleted member 28523]

doom

 

[Deleted member 76797]

doom

Click to shrink...

wolfenstein 3d

 

[jonjonaug]

Today, I feel that the JRPG genre isn't huge, but turn and luck based combat and systems are. So many mobile titles use turn based combat and have luck related systems that wouldn't exist without the popularity of Final Fantasy games.

Click to shrink...

Dragon Quest came first and had a bigger impact in Japan and on other games like it.

Any video game with a big focus on cinematic style storytelling has FF7 DNA. You see that blueprint everywhere, not just in RPGs.

Click to shrink...

OOT's in-engine cutscenes with actual cinematic camera angles were more of an influence on how to deliver cutscenes in games than FF7's mostly fixed-angle cutscenes (prerendered ones aside).

EDIT

Like, take this bit from the opening of the game where Navi flies through Kokiri Forest. There is nothing at the time that comes close to this level of fidelity for in-engine cutscene presentation. So much of the game's cutscenes is just Nintendo going "hey everyone, we're in 3D now, here's what you can do with the camera!".

 

[RomanticHeroX]

Ocarina, easily. It set the standard for how dynamic combat works in 3D games. Things like Demon's Souls and Devil May Cry still show a clear lineage back to Ocarina. FF7, meanwhile, got the West to pay greater attention to JRPGs (and Japanese media more broadly), but its influences are narrower in scope and duration. I think the broadest, obvious influence it had was to standardize static CG backgrounds, 3D battle sequences, and CG movies. All those things are featured heavily in JRPGs on the PSOne, but not really influential to other genres or on other platforms. I think this is proven by the fact that even JRPGs released today don't look or play like FF7. I think something like MGS was a bigger influence in terms of video game storytelling. Both are great games, but Ocarina is much more influential.

 

[Mory Dunz]

I feel people forget how cinematic OoT was for its time

FF7 had prerendered cutscenes of course and a huge focus on story, but OoT was doing what FF7 didn't do ingame in terms of the cinematography, camerawork, facial expressions, and character models that could animate more freely (and mocap iirc). An early example is Link leaving Kokiri forest, or Navi flying, learning literally any song, or the final boss of course.
OoT wasn't like a 2D mario or something.

felt like pointing that specific part out, I didn't vote cause I don't have an answer.
Just something I've noticed.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Dragon Quest came first and had a bigger impact in Japan and on other games like it.

Click to shrink...

Very true. I'd like to play more Dragon Quest games; I've only really gone through XI at this point.

 

[Undeniablybiased]

Yeah, don't discount the cinematic aspects of OoT.

 

[Mechaplum]

Z targeting is still widely used and fucking brilliant. I wonder what gaming would be like right now if we never got SM64 and OoT.

Click to shrink...

Would have been developed in other games. The pedestal some nintendo games get put on here is wild.

 

[Ovvv]

I don't see this at all. To me, FFVII was just the natural translation of what came before it with a prettier visual veneer. Games like FFVI and Chrono Trigger already had elaborate cinematic cutscenes.

Click to shrink...

I mean, if we're going this route and just absolutely ignoring the context and impact of FF7's execution of those things, then none of the stuff being attributed to OoT wasn't already done before in terms of design. Z targeting, proper 3D dungeons, a connected world had already been executed at a high level by Mega Man Legends.

But we're not doing that. FF7 and MGS were the big trigger for the whole movie-like style that took over video game storytelling. Hell, a huge part of the marketing for FF7 was "it's like a movie!" The reason it took off in the West was in large part due to that. It was marketed like a movie with production values to match.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Would have been developed in other games. The pedestal some nintendo games get put on here is wild.

Click to shrink...

Whether it would have or not is irrelevant, no? Ultimately Ocarina was one of the first to do it, thus making it the influential title.

 

[Lork]

Z targetting already existed in Mega Man Legends. Did it just as good, too.

It also did big 3D adventure with dungeons and an interconnected world before OoT, too.

Click to shrink...

"Did it just as good" lmao

You literally can't move while locked on in MML. It wasn't until the sequel that you could at least strafe (still awkward compared to Z-targeting's free movement). I wonder if anything happened in the meantime that might have served as inspiration?

 

[Bundy]

FF7

Games like Final Fantasy VII were extremely important in terms of bringing a new generation of female gamers into the scene. The importance of FFVII and future RPGs really cannot be understated in terms of that.

Click to shrink...

Yep.