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cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
Edit: Title should be *setting* not mode.

Grounded is a survival game set in a backyard, meaning that common insects are some of the boss monsters in the environment, including several different types of spiders. But, many people have strong aversions to spiders and won't play a game that features them. Indeed, it's consistently one of the top 5 phobias worldwide (estimated at 30% of the population in the US - though, I think this is likely due to an overly wide definition of "arachnophobia"). Obsidian is working with Microsoft's User Research Lab to understand arachnophobia better, to identify triggers, and find ways to avoid them in gameplay. Additionally, they're looking at how to implement an arachnophobia mode that changes spiders on the client side (rather than server side), meaning that you can play both SP AND coop without spiders, even if you play with people who want spiders in THEIR games.

Not too many details yet, but I think it's cool to see devs considering all different types of accessibility in games, and how a bit of research and foresight and investment can make games better for many more people than we normally think about. (The arachnophobe demographic is not often catered to in games.)



Timestamp to devs answering this question in the recent gameplay stream.


Edit: For perspective for those of us who don't know what phobias are like. It's not a phobia until it negatively affects your normal functioning:
www.verywellmind.com

What You Need to Know About Arachnophobia

Arachnophobia, or the fear of spiders, is one of the most common specific phobias. Learn more about the symptoms, causes, and treatments for this condition.
A person with arachnophobia will go to great lengths to ensure that she is not exposed to a spider. She may be unwilling to participate in activities that carry a heightened risk of exposure to spiders, such as going down into a basement where she once saw spider webs. The person with a phobia has a persistent and excessive fear that interferes with her functioning.
 
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Deleted member 3183

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Oct 25, 2017
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This is dope as hell and I wish more developers would do this. I *hate* seeing snakes in games vs. spiders. So I'd love to see more of these kinds of features. Let me experience games like Far Cry and Assassins Creed without shitting myself in terror.
 
Jun 12, 2018
633
I mean I guess this is cool, but do THAT many people really have that kind of phobia to warrant the effort put into this?

EDIT: Found the answer to my own question lol, 3 to 6 percent of people worldwide, in case anyone else was curious
 

Jerm411

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,014
Clinton, MO
This is dope as hell and I wish more developers would do this. I *hate* seeing snakes in games vs. spiders. So I'd love to see more of these kinds of features. Let me experience games like Far Cry and Assassins Creed without shitting myself in terror.

I thought these might be in Grounded too but I guess not?
 

Zaied

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,553
If it helps people play the game more comfortably it's a good feature to have. Reminds me of the Skyrim mods that replace the frostbite spiders.
 

Deleted member 29682

User requested account closure
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Nov 1, 2017
12,290
I mean I guess this is cool, but do THAT many people really have that kind of phobia to warrant the effort put into this?

EDIT: Found the answer to my own question lol, 3 to 6 percent of people worldwide, in case anyone else was curious

That's actually much lower than I expected, I had the impression it was one of the most common phobias.
 

PucePikmin

Member
Apr 26, 2018
3,744
I mean, cool I guess, but does "we're taking out spiders for those who think they're gross" really count as accessibility? To me the comparison kind of diminishes real accessibility efforts. Also, as others have said, what about other bugs? I have zero problem with spiders, but I friggin' hate moths. Where's my mottephobia mode?
 

DidactBRHU3

Member
Oct 17, 2019
2,987
Fortaleza - Ceará
Great effort, looking forward to July to play it.
I mean, cool I guess, but does "we're taking out spiders for those who think they're gross" really count as accessibility? To me the comparison kind of diminishes real accessibility efforts. Also, as others have said, what about other bugs? I have zero problem with spiders, but I friggin' hate moths. Where's my mottephobia mode?
One step at a time.
 
Aug 27, 2019
381
I mean, cool I guess, but does "we're taking out spiders for those who think they're gross" really count as accessibility? To me the comparison kind of diminishes real accessibility efforts. Also, as others have said, what about other bugs? I have zero problem with spiders, but I friggin' hate moths. Where's my mottephobia mode?
Arachnophobia is one of the most common phobias out there. In a game where giant spiders are an incredibly common enemy, I'd say having no spiders as an option should definitely count as accessibility, even if it seems like it shouldn't.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
I mean, cool I guess, but does "we're taking out spiders for those who think they're gross" really count as accessibility? To me the comparison kind of diminishes real accessibility efforts. Also, as others have said, what about other bugs? I have zero problem with spiders, but I friggin' hate moths. Where's my mottephobia mode?
Phobias are more than just finding something gross. I find spiders really gross, but I can still play games with them just fine. Seeing a spider doesn't induce a panic attack in me or something.
 
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Sesha

â–˛ Legend â–˛
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Oct 25, 2017
9,812
I mean, cool I guess, but does "we're taking out spiders for those who think they're gross" really count as accessibility? To me the comparison kind of diminishes real accessibility efforts. Also, as others have said, what about other bugs? I have zero problem with spiders, but I friggin' hate moths. Where's my mottephobia mode?

I'd call it a quality of life feature more than accessibility feature.
 
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cyrribrae

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
I mean, cool I guess, but does "we're taking out spiders for those who think they're gross" really count as accessibility? To me the comparison kind of diminishes real accessibility efforts. Also, as others have said, what about other bugs? I have zero problem with spiders, but I friggin' hate moths. Where's my mottephobia mode?
Yes, absolutely it counts as accessibility. Especially when many people simply won't play the game, otherwise. But, the part that makes it work is that the spiders aren't eliminated as gameplay elements. It's not that we took them out - it's that we found a way to allow you to play this game without triggering your fear (that might be changing the spider to a different thing).

Absolutely, though, there are other insects and things that people are afraid of. I am choosing to celebrate the steps, rather than crapping on important work because it doesn't cater to my exact situation.
 

Seneset

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,072
Limbus Patrum
I mean I guess this is cool, but do THAT many people really have that kind of phobia to warrant the effort put into this?

EDIT: Found the answer to my own question lol, 3 to 6 percent of people worldwide, in case anyone else was curious
The guy in the interview, i assume he's a dev, said he has arachnophobia. Not surprising in that context he'd have supported such an option.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,487
One of the team members (the total team size is 13 people) at Obsidian has Arachnophobia. Fun fact. :)
 

Opa-Opa

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 16, 2018
1,766
Well, that's nice I guess.

But a funnier mode would be to put googly eyes on them. Maybe groucho marx mustaches.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,667
The Milky Way
This is dope as hell and I wish more developers would do this. I *hate* seeing snakes in games vs. spiders. So I'd love to see more of these kinds of features. Let me experience games like Far Cry and Assassins Creed without shitting myself in terror.
Surely exposing yourself to these harmless polygons would be an gentle way to get started in overcoming your phobias.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
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Oct 25, 2017
19,625
That's awesome on Obsidians part. I found that offputing when watching the recent trailer so I think I'll actually play it on Gamepass now.
 

Tatsu91

Banned
Apr 7, 2019
3,147
Phobias are more than just finding something gross. I find spiders really gross, but I can still play games with them just fine. Seeing a spider doesn't induce a panic attack in me or something.
Precisely as one who has it if I see a page scrolling on Facebook or Twitter of a spider someone says looks cute I can see the cute in it but it revolts me in fear I cant even touch the part of the page where it is to scroll past it as it induces so much fear to just touch an image
 
Phobias are for real

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
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Oct 25, 2017
5,838
I mean, cool I guess, but does "we're taking out spiders for those who think they're gross" really count as accessibility? To me the comparison kind of diminishes real accessibility efforts. Also, as others have said, what about other bugs? I have zero problem with spiders, but I friggin' hate moths. Where's my mottephobia mode?
The purpose isn't to take out spiders for those who think they're gross, the purpose is to take out spiders for those who have such a strong phobia that it would keep them from playing the game. A reminder that phobias are not just being scared of something, but have a strict clinical definition involving:

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - 5th Edition said:
  • Marked fear or anxiety about a specific object or situation (In children fear or anxiety may be expressed by crying, tantrums, freezing, or clinging).
  • The phobic object or situation almost always provokes immediate fear or anxiety.
  • The phobic object or situation is avoided or endured with intense fear or anxiety.
  • The fear or anxiety is out of proportion to the actual danger posed by the specific object or situation and to the sociocultural context.
  • The fear, anxiety, or avoidance is persistent, typically lasting for 6 months or more.
  • The fear, anxiety, or avoidance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
  • The disturbance is not better explained by symptoms of another mental disorder, including fear, anxiety, and avoidance of situations associated with panic-like symptoms or other incapacitating symptoms; objects or situations related to obsessions; reminders of traumatic events; separation from home or attachment figures; or social situations.
 

PucePikmin

Member
Apr 26, 2018
3,744
Phobias are more than just finding something gross. I find spiders really gross, but I can still play games with them just fine. Seeing a spider doesn't induce a panic attack in me or something.

I'm fully aware. Apologies for the "spiders are gross" line -- it was a bit flippant. My dislike of moths runs into phobia territory -- I'll run right out of the room if I see one. I still wouldn't necessarily consider a moth appearing in a video game as an accessibility issue. To me accessibility means "Can certain people outright not play a game due a physical limitation?"

Absolutely, though, there are other insects and things that people are afraid of. I am choosing to celebrate the steps, rather than crapping on important work because it doesn't cater to my exact situation.

I'm not crapping on the effort. I said it was cool. I just find it somewhat odd. Is it a rabbit hole developers want to go down? There's literally a phobia for almost everything. And again, why are spiders the tipping point? Obsidian has packed past games with zombies, and monsters, and graphic violence. I am not upset about this whatsoever -- just thinking aloud/asking some questions.
 
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cyrribrae

cyrribrae

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Jan 21, 2019
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Precisely as one who has it if I see a page scrolling on Facebook or Twitter of a spider someone says looks cute I can see the cute in it but it revolts me in fear I cant even touch the part of the page where it is to scroll past it as it induces so much fear to just touch an image
Dang that's intense.

And yea. Really shouldn't be any negativity about this. As we start building in accessibility into games, we should expect to see this sort of thought put into games more broadly. I'm not saying that every game needs to do this or cater to every single phobia (not possible). But, we CAN start to consider and think about these - same as how we now consider color blind mode and subtitles standard features (and potentially because people on the dev teams pointed out these problems first).


I'm fully aware. Apologies for the "spiders are gross" line -- it was a bit flippant. My dislike of moths runs into phobia territory -- I'll run right out of the room if I see one. I still wouldn't necessarily consider a moth appearing in a video game as an accessibility issue. To me accessibility means "Can certain people outright not play a game due a physical limitation?"

I'm not crapping on the effort. I said it was cool. I just find it somewhat odd. Is it a rabbit hole developers want to go down? There's literally a phobia for almost everything. And again, why are spiders the tipping point? Obsidian has packed past games with zombies, and monsters, and graphic violence.
Oh for sure, it can seem like a rabbit hole now. But, considering it's the 3rd most common phobia in the US, it's not RANDOM either. I just think it's cool that we have games that are addressing aversions and phobias, rather than trying to exploit them. And when we consider that some people, again, LITERALLY outright cannot play the game due to this mental limitation.... I don't see why we wouldn't classify this as accessibility. IMO at least, but maybe the whole Dark Souls conversation ruined the word for us all lol.
 

Mesoian

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Oct 28, 2017
26,432
So what will they be? Large Glitchy Kittens like in Satisfactory?


satisfactory.gamepedia.com

Settings

Settings are a set of options accessible from the main menu and the in-game Esc menu. These settings are stored in config files, which can be found in \AppData\Local\FactoryGame\Saved\Config\WindowsNoEditor There are several sub-tabs in the 'Options' tab in the main menu. When in game, 'Manage...
 
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cyrribrae

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
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Jan 21, 2019
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So what will they be? Large Glitchy Kittens like in Satisfactory?


satisfactory.gamepedia.com

Settings

Settings are a set of options accessible from the main menu and the in-game Esc menu. These settings are stored in config files, which can be found in \AppData\Local\FactoryGame\Saved\Config\WindowsNoEditor There are several sub-tabs in the 'Options' tab in the main menu. When in game, 'Manage...
Haha that's awesome! Satisfactory gets a lot of things right in a fun way
 

PucePikmin

Member
Apr 26, 2018
3,744
Oh for sure, it can seem like a rabbit hole now. But, considering it's the 3rd most common phobia in the US, it's not RANDOM either. I just think it's cool that we have games that are addressing aversions and phobias, rather than trying to exploit them. And when we consider that some people, again, LITERALLY outright cannot play the game due to this mental limitation.... I don't see why we wouldn't classify this as accessibility. IMO at least, but maybe the whole Dark Souls conversation ruined the word for us all lol.

Well, I mean, look at that phobia list -- #1 by a long shot is acrophobia (fear of heights). So, should there be a "no high ledges" mode in the next Assassin's Creed? What phobias are worthy of special attention?

I feel like maybe this is a conversation to have later down the road when more fundamental accessibility issues have been solved. Like, feels a bit silly to argue about spiders when seemingly 90 percent of games still have tiny unreadable text and only one of the console makers has a proper accessibility controller.

Anywho! This is my last post on the subject, as I don't want to come off like I'm upset about this, as I'm really really not. Obsidian taking out spiders for people who are afraid of them is a nice thing to do. I just don't necessarily think it's a grand victory for accessibility.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
I'm fully aware. Apologies for the "spiders are gross" line -- it was a bit flippant. My dislike of moths runs into phobia territory -- I'll run right out of the room if I see one. I still wouldn't necessarily consider a moth appearing in a video game as an accessibility issue. To me accessibility means "Can certain people outright not play a game due a physical limitation?"
No worries. Accessibility options aim to accommodate people with wide variety of different conditions and impairments, not just physical. Some phobias are considered to be a disability. In example claustrophobia is a disability under The Americans with Disabilities Act. I don't think arachnophobia is though.
 

Shodan14

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,410
Wait, Obsidian is making a survival game? Lol, I remember everyone falling overthemselves about how Obsidian was going to bring the real RPGs to Xbox now that MS gave them an unlimited budget.
 

MrCibb

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Dec 12, 2018
5,349
UK
What a great feature. Props to MS and Obsidian for exploring it. It's not something I have but I have a mate who will literally not buy a game if there's giant spiders, it's that bad for him. So that's awesome.
 

Fisty

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Oct 25, 2017
20,214
Spiders in video games aren't real, not sure why this needs to be a thing really.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
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Oct 25, 2017
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Wait, Obsidian is making a survival game? Lol, I remember everyone falling overthemselves about how Obsidian was going to bring the real RPGs to Xbox now that MS gave them an unlimited budget.

They are a studio with 200+ people that are working on 3 projects. Grounded is one of them and the team is composed of roughly 15 people.

It's a smaller budget title, but they have two larger projects in the works.
 

Deleted member 29682

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Nov 1, 2017
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Either make it a full AA game or can it.

We've seen Obsidian balance multiple projects quite a few times, it has almost universally ended with on or the other (or something all) getting cancelled.

It's only about a dozen or so team members working on Grounded and MS want quantity for Gamepass. From their perspective, it makes sense to not cancel something mid-development when it's a relatively small section of the team, though I'll admit I don't know exactly how many people are at Obsidian post-acquisition so I can't say exactly what percentage of Obsidian's whole dev-team are working on it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
472
cool, I got a serious phobia which has made it almost impossible for me to play some games.
There was a part in a game I was playing with a friend where a swarm of the things came over a cliff and I just had to close my eyes.
I can't play an elder scroll game or fallout 4 cause those ones have probably the worst cases for me.
Ironically the objects of my phobia are also some of my favorite pokemon