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Obama on 'Call-out culture' - "The world is messy. There are ambiguities. People who do really good stuff have flaws."
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
Your posts entirely about what he said have nothing to do with what he said?
All our dialogue has spun out of a post you made explaining and defending what Obama said...
I think it would be a lot less politically tenable for human soldiers to do that.
Which is what makes drone strikes even more insidious. It allows more leeway on how indiscriminate the killing can be.
It's not a case of either/or. Changing the method of murder changes the calculus on whether or not to carry out a mission in the first place.
Obama is an extreme liberal. That is, he probably believes there's there's some universal truth that can be arrived at via consensus and debate. If everyone compromises we can create a harmonious society. Conservatives and leftists don't believe this so they wont agree with him. I'm sure he's also self-rationalising the terrible shit he did in office while being one of the least consequential 2-term presidents in American history.
Yeah I don't follow.
I think Obama is correct. I don't like the man's politics. I don't see the problem here.
Don't you know that if someone is wrong about one thing, that makes them wrong about all things!!! /s
I said you romanced his words and you went this has nothing to do with him or his words....
Yeah your point is to make those who you don't like sound like crazy violent but ultimately cowardly people with no decency.... all why endorsing a call for "empathy" and understanding and moving away from so called generalizations...You're out here judging people while equating talking shit about Biden online to punching him in the face. You can see the forest for the trees because my friend you are a tree.
This would be so poignant if my original post said Obama and not you know Obama's words... alas.... Leave the sarcasm to people who are perfect like me :)
Let's summarize
You have embraced Obama's words here
You then called declared that an entire generation lacked decency
You then equated aggressive online criticism of Biden to punching him in the face
You then implied they wouldn't do that in person (punch him in the face or since you said metaphor aggressively criticize him)
Really not sure what's lost here.... You've decried an entire generation, used violence metaphors and then insinuated they wouldn't have the guts to say it to his face...
this is an excellent post
unfortunately, characteristics of modern communication platforms such as twitter make impossible to discuss anything without giving it a snappy, but ultimately meaningless, label like "cancel culture"
i don't care if some politician or public figure gets blasted for something they said using their massive platform! that's the responsibility that comes with having such a massive platform
what i *do* care about is the bullies who have taken over marginalized communities - the people who co-opt the rhetoric of social justice for the purpose of furthering their petty vendettas against other marginalized people
and every time you try and call out these people for the harm they cause, they always accuse you of being against the abstract idea of holding people accountable at all
when actually, i think holding people accountable is important! just that certain people have demonstrated themselves to be the wrong person for the job by abusing their power for ludicruous reasons
if anyone wants an example, think the obnoxious people online who have "debates" over whether certain sexualities deserve respect, usually because someone they don't like indentifies with the targetted sexuality - the awful bi vs. pan discourse, targetting bullying of asexual people, etc.
i'm SICK of all that shit
Also, social media and it's design of making users chase after thousands of likes from a "fire" tweet makes people dumb themselves down with quippy, short, meme-laced takedowns that, while on the side of moral superiority, don't accomplish anything in the long run.
Embraced Obama's words, yes.
Declared an entire generation lacked decency, yes: Including my own generation in this, and was referring to online behavior (mostly), that may not have been clear.
Yes aggressive online behavior is like punching someone in the face or spitting in their face or anything equivalent (possibly a poor metaphor?).
Yes most people would not aggressively tackle (rhetorically) the former Vice POTUS face to face, especially in their home (I mean crazy people maybe?).
You got me? I mean I guess. I'm not sure what I did wrong.
You're painting large swaths of people with a violent brush.... It's just funny in context of what you're supposed to be embracing here.
I mean large swathes of people are verbally violent everyday without consequence on social media. I don't think that's good.
User Banned (1 Day) - History of Antagonizing Users with low post count
Whatever you say, two year old account with 21 posts.
Isn't it funny how the people whining about people who cancel are self righteous and generalizing then proceed to act self righteous and generalize?
Like, where's the self awareness?
Consequences? People make mistakes, it's best not to hold that against them, and risk ruining their lives...
the best tweet is "turning a big dial taht says "Racism" on it and constantly looking back at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right" by dril, because in this one Post he has distilled most popular Posters down to their core essence
unlimited side-eye towards the alleged progressives who try their best to still find acceptable targets for their hot takes while also policing those who aren't quite as up-to-date on which groups of marginalized people deserve respect in the eyes of the average user
Yes, barely, and not really? It's entirely possible I've missed something but I can't think of any social movement that succeeds via online action. You need actual people in the streets or calling representatives or knocking on doors; social media might be able to amplify that stuff and get the word out (protest coverage etc.) but I don't think it's capable of doing anything on its own besides hounding people off the platforms and getting a company to rethink its bad PR move.
When you say those things, what are you referring to exactly? Those are pretty nebulous terms usually used by people on the right to attack progressives.
The main issue I have with "call out culture" is that the majority of those who participate do not genuinely care about what they're seemingly enraged about, but do so just to appear like they do to ceet some imaginary virtue points.
How does the saying go? Even a broken clock is right twice a day? Even ignoring that... two opposing sides can sometimes come to the same conclusion... just by different means.
In this case Obama, who I believe is correct, thinks a culture that constantly tries to out woke themselves is more destructive than helpful. Whereas the right dislike woke culture because FIRE BAD(Translation: I have little experience with other cultures, therefore they are scary. I see my dominant culture having to share the sandbox and that makes me, a person lacking empathy for others, sad and angry. Also I probably don't have an education and only ever visit cities.)
I'm still waiting to see if any of the people that said youth are apathetic read any of the studies I posted showing the opposite are going to comment about them. Do they disagree, think if they don't vote the other stuff is useless, are they themselves engaged? Or if they will continue to call them and members of the era Borg out for being slacktivists?
Sure, what I mean though is I don't know what he or we are talking about when we're talking about woke or out-woking each other. To some people, advocating against racism can be being woke. Or advocating for trans rights. Sometimes people doing that make other people uncomfortable, so the reaction to it can be "hey, let's slow this train down a bit" when that hampers progress too.
It's hard to talk about these things without knowing where people are coming from with specific examples because without them we're just kind of debating broad aphorisms and we'll never get to anything of substance.
Having over 3000 million posts to your name doesn't make you any more insightful or worth paying attention to. Get out of here with the post count shaming. Pathetic
I think what they mean is an prime example of really cool, but I learned it from watching you Kyuuji!
Two self righteous peas in a perfect pod 👊
Got to go now, still haven't met my outrage and cancel quotas for the month.
My main issue is that I feel that forgiveness and second changes demand, at minimum, someone to actually acknowledge problems and declare some desire to solve them. With long-term abusers that often doesn't actually happen - and even when it does, it's often more an attempt to damage control, as they were perfectly aware of what they were doing and refused to correct their course on countless previous occasions.
That's... not what happened. He committed to the military action in 2013 as a response to Syria's use of chemical weapons, then sought congressional approval. The Senate voted yes, the House almost certainly would have no (because they made it pretty clear they would), but a diplomatic solution was reached with Russia and Syria before the vote even came to the floor in which Syria was required to destroy all its chemical weapons.
And if Congress really wanted us to stay out of Syria, the easiest way is to just not fund it. The House controls the purse; if they don't appropriate funds for something, that something doesn't happen. So yeah a government shutdown may have happened if Obama was unwilling to concede, but I doubt that would have happened.
The fact is that it's literally written right in the Constitution that the power to authorize military action resides with Congress, so there's really no point debating this all day. That Congress often lets the president ignore the War Powers Clause (and I've never argued that they don't do this; they do it all the time for various reasons, mostly that war is good for the American economy, which is why we wage it all the time) does not mean the War Powers Clause does not exist, so I don't really think there's much more to talk about :)
I also personally despise things like this:
because they're so often a way of disinterested people to silence minorities or victims by pretending that because they, the disinterested party, have no personal attachment or motivation to care, so much everyone else have no personal attachment or motivation to care.
I've genuinely had this sort of behaviour followed by people trying to whitesplain to me about my own race. Like, some people even on this forum are that level of refusing to understand that minorities also use the internet.
because they're so often a way of disinterested people to silence minorities or victims by pretending that because they, the disinterested party, have no personal attachment or motivation to care, so much everyone else have no personal attachment or motivation to care.
I've genuinely had this sort of behaviour followed by people trying to whitesplain to me about my own race. Like, some people even on this forum are that level of refusing to understand that minorities also use the internet.
Use the phrase for any level of criticism until it's meaningless. Seems to be what many are going for.
But that is cancel culture though, isn't it? The lynch mob come out at the drop of a hat nowadays, if anything its probably only going to get worse.
Do ya'll. How is anyone doing anything but squeezing a fart at anything he said in this video.
It's such a broad, toothless rant that anyone from Joe Dipshit lamenting the fall of Louis CK to a Contrapoint fan can impress their own values onto it as long as they share the connective tissue of having some mild angst towards cancel culture with a helping dash of "those campus kids".