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Tracygill

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,853
The Left
www.nytimes.com

Obama and Biden’s Relationship Looks Rosy. It Wasn’t Always That Simple. (Published 2019)

Their partnership is the stuff of buddy-movie lore, but those who saw it up close described a more difficult, complicated dynamic.
Barack Obama was riding his call for generational change to the Democratic presidential nomination in the spring of 2008 when he began musing about potential running mates with aides traveling with him on the trail.

"I want somebody with gray in his hair," Mr. Obama, then 46, told one of them. He was thinking about an "older guy," he told another.

At some point, Mr. Biden also told Obama aides that "Barack would never have to worry" about him positioning himself for another presidential run. He was too old, he told them, and he viewed his new job as a capstone, not a catapult.

Fast forward to his current campaign
The two men spoke at least a half dozen times before Mr. Biden decided to run, and Mr. Obama took pains to cast his doubts about the campaign in personal terms.
"You don't have to do this, Joe, you really don't," Mr. Obama told Mr. Biden earlier this year, according to a person familiar with the exchange.

Mr. Biden — who thinks he could have defeated Donald Trump four years ago — responded by telling Mr. Obama he could never forgive himself if he turned down a second shot at Mr. Trump.

Mr. Obama has said he will not make an endorsement in the primary, and has offered every candidate his counsel. But he has taken an active interest in the inner workings of his friend's campaign, to an extent beyond anything offered to other candidates.

In his interactions with Mr. Biden — the pair had a quiet lunch in Washington last month — Mr. Obama has hammered away at the need for his campaign to expand his aging inner circle.

He has communicated his frustration that Mr. Biden's closest advisers are too old and out of touch with the current political climate — urging him to include more younger aides, according to three Democrats with direct knowledge of the discussion.

In March, Mr. Obama took the unusual step of summoning Mr. Biden's top campaign advisers, including the former White House communications director Anita Dunn and Mr. Biden's longtime spokeswoman, Kate Bedingfield, to his Washington office for a briefing on the campaign's digital and communications strategy with members of his own staff, including his senior adviser, Eric Schultz.

When they were done, Mr. Obama offered a pointed reminder, according to two people with knowledge of his comments:

Win or lose, they needed to make sure Mr. Biden did not "embarrass himself" or "damage his legacy" during the campaign.

This reminds me of this story from 2012.
In a meeting with Connaughton and some of his other advisers a few days after the election, Biden revealed that he had been upbraided by an angry Obama.

"Biden told us that Obama had called him and told him sharply that he didn't need public tutoring: 'I don't need you acting like you're my Henry Higgins,'" Connaughton writes. "Biden said his private reaction was, 'Whoa. Where did this come from? This is clearly a guy who could restrict my role to attending state funerals or just put me in a closet for four years."

Biden added: "I'm going to have to earn his trust, but I'm not going to grovel to this guy. My manhood is not negotiable."
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,665
Yeah, this isn't exactly new. His aides were warning him earlier this year before he decided to run. If only he had taken their advice...
 

Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,152
It's not Biden's fault he's the frontrunner. It's all of ours, and the media's. He's not the best, nor possibly even the most "electable". I won't fault him for running, any more than I'd fault anyone else. I'd run if I thought I had a chance.
 

Sweeney Swift

User Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,743
#IStandWithTaylor
If you haven't noticed by now: 2016's repeating

Frontrunner to the nom was told by insiders they may have made a mistake
Previously had a chance to win the nom at the prior election; it didn't work out
One side has 20 names running for the job when only 3 really act like they want the job
Bernie and everyone around him feel wrongly persecuted despite making many obvious mistakes and neglecting communities
Voters feeling split and burned out already from infighting
Media and Dems keep swearing This Time Trump will lose because he just has to
LGBTQ+ rights threatened in the meantime while nobody pays attention to the SCOTUS seats (in '16 they were up for grabs, now they're firmly in place for a generation with a workplace discrimination case coming up for ruling next summer)
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Its quite obvious that Biden running is not a result of any grand plan or vision, but rather because he simply has the unearned name recognition left over from Obama and he thinks the Presidency is a good feather in the cap. For all of the talk of egotism, his is probably one of the biggest in this race
 

Dennis8K

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,161
Biden just wants to be president for the sake of being president.

He has no vision whatsoever.
 

Braaier

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
13,237
Its quite obvious that Biden running is not a result of any grand plan or vision, but rather because he simply has the unearned name recognition left over from Obama and he thinks the Presidency is a good feather in the cap. For all of the talk of egotism, his is probably one of the biggest in this race
Ain't that the truth
Too bad he didn't run in 2016. Probably figured it was Hilarys turn
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,201
If you haven't noticed by now: 2016's repeating

Frontrunner to the nom was told by insiders they may have made a mistake
Who told this to Hillary

What are you talking about. The entire Democratic Party laid out the red carpet and effectively handed her the nomination by not letting anyone else with the capability of beating her run which included Joe himself.

Nobody was signaling to Hillary she shouldn't run at all.
 

Spaceroast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
522
Statement reads like "you really don't want to deal with this job for years on end, especially at your age. Believe me."
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
subtext:

6KsQfin.gif
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
If you haven't noticed by now: 2016's repeating

Bernie and everyone around him feel wrongly persecuted despite making many obvious mistakes and neglecting communities

I mean, even on the face of it, the attacks by the media(both right learning and centrist) and the democratic establishment on Sanders and his campaign isnt a claim, its reality. And for any mistakes he made last time, he's wiped them clean this time, so the comparison doesnt even particularly hold. For any mistakes made, its none worse than any of the other candidates who have not been attacked on anywhere near the same level as the media's fixation on Sanders, and that's because they sense the threat.


He won 47 percent of the vote, its quite possible,if the establishment vote was split to enough of a degree. Both of them have a tangible connection to Obama, and both are running for almost the same kind of supporters.
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
38,250
Listen I'm not thrilled about Biden but whatever it takes to remove Trump. Whatever it takes.
 

Ketch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,285
Imagine if Barack fucking Obama was your close friend, and he told you like "nah man you shouldn't do this", and then you did it anyway.

What a dumbass
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
I think Joe probably would have beaten Trump four years ago and handily. The racism alone was an energy Trump was able to harness in a way he probably wouldn't have running against Biden - and it's plain that mysoginy fed into Hillary's defeat along with her own general negatives and an extremely successful and expensive twenty year campaign to fuzzily define her as a boogeyman based largely on complete lies or mere association with her husband. I still meet liberal adults who say Hillary was awful but can't actually explain specifically why without going to generalities or even conspiracies.

Hillary was exactly the candidate Trump needed to win against and he did it with massive help from domestic and foreign crooks. We will likely never know what the untarnished election results even were but I personally think she would have won the electoral college too without direct criminal interference with electoral registration and outlandish gerrymandering and voter suppression. And we still don't actually know if the voting records and rolls were directly altered - we do know that every state system was compromised.

But all of that aside, and while I think Joe will probably beat Trump in a normal election - I think he's too old - too gaffe prone, too much a part if the very systems that got us into this horror show and I hope that one of the other top three or four candidates gets the nomination.

I f Joe wins the nomination I won't even blink to vote for him in 2020 and I will compel everyone I know to do the same and I will organize and rally behind the effort. But man I wish it was Warren or Harris or Bernie or even Buttigieg or Beto.

But you can lock my (D) vote regardless because 2020 will be the most important election of our lifetimes with climate, economy, democracy and constitution miles ahead of any preference I have.

The only wholly unacceptable candidate on the current stage is Tulsi and even then I'd hold my nose if it turned out she's just a bad person rather than a heavily compromised and sponsored carpetbagging distraction.
 

SpitztheGreat

Member
May 16, 2019
2,877
As a former campaign guy, Obama getting involved like that and recommending firing advisors leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Listen I'm not thrilled about Biden but whatever it takes to remove Trump. Whatever it takes.

The problem is that its very likely that Biden cant win against Trump due to all the ammunition Trump has on Biden, and Biden not really having anything to fire back with. He's been getting creamed in the debates and his only rebuttal is "well i cant be so bad cause people liked the Obama administration".

...So getting out of the primary fervor, talking about him on the basis of automatically having the best chance of beating Trump is a quite possibly a false start from the beginning. It has a distinct possibility to be a redo of 2016,where most people dont even know what the democrat actually stands for, and the Trump people are super energized because Trump constantly plays to them. And then the progressives in the race will be blamed despite it coming down to the states Clinton didnt even bother to campaign in.

And then we have to get to another possibility. What if Joe Biden wins? we're talking about someone who supports the status quo inherently and has said straight out that he doesnt want anything to change for the elite or the institutional problems, so things arent going to magically go back to before Trump even if Biden wins. He's going to make it easier for how things operate in the here and now without being as egregious a "character" as Trump. And while that is better in certain instances, it does nothing to move the needle forward and inherently negative as things collapse around us.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
Sounds like your typical Democratic frontrunner lately... And it will screw the world again

Yea because it's just like 2016 when everyone knew Clinton was the front runner and didn't want to waste their time.

Just like 2016, with a clown car primary full of random nobodies and a handful of actual potential front runners.
 

Nola

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,025
The key to beating Biden is Bernie or Warren throwing in the towel....At this point probably Bernie.

Don't believe me, look at the 2008 primaries this time in 2007 and follow it through.

Otherwise, what a poster above said about Biden and Hillary splitting the moderate vote is exactly what will happen with the progressive side.
 

whytemyke

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,783
I don't think Biden would have stood a chance against anyone in 2016. He was too close to Obama and you've gotta remember that a LOT of what spurred on the Trump stuff was how blatantly "Not Obama" he was.

The media played up the narrative that the smart black guy betrayed the populace, and a lot of people wouldn't have gone near Biden just because of his association to ACA. The left flank would have maybe gotten more behind him than they are now, but if you put Trump against the guy who used to carry Obama's jacket I don't think the election result is really any different.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
The key to beating Biden is Bernie or Warren throwing in the towel....At this point probably Bernie.

Don't believe me, look at the 2008 primaries this time in 2007 and follow it through.

Otherwise, what a poster above said about Biden and Hillary splitting the moderate vote is exactly what will happen with the progressive side.

Unfortunately the primary is needed to find the best candidate. People will have to rally behind the stronger one.

If the Democratic party cared about Democratic representation they'd have ranked choice voting.

Wonder why they dont?
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,493
The problem is that its very likely that Biden cant win against Trump due to all the ammunition Trump has on Biden, and Biden not really having anything to fire back with. He's been getting creamed in the debates and his only rebuttal is "well i cant be so bad cause people liked the Obama administration".

...So getting out of the primary fervor, talking about him on the basis of automatically having the best chance of beating Trump is a quite possibly a false start from the beginning. It has a distinct possibility to be a redo of 2016,where most people dont even know what the democrat actually stands for, and the Trump people are super energized because Trump constantly plays to them. And then the progressives in the race will be blamed despite it coming down to the states Clinton didnt even bother to campaign in.

And then we have to get to another possibility. What if Joe Biden wins? we're talking about someone who supports the status quo inherently and has said straight out that he doesnt want anything to change for the elite or the institutional problems, so things arent going to magically go back to before Trump even if Biden wins. He's going to make it easier for how things operate in the here and now without being as egregious a "character" as Trump. And while that is better in certain instances, it does nothing to move the needle forward and inherently negative as things collapse around us.
Biden not having anything to fire back with? I'm sorry?

He's got 3+ years worth of detestable (and often impeacheable) behavior to needle Trump about. There's more for Biden to "fire back" at Trump than there has been for any candidate ever.

When we get to the head to head debates and Trump can't answer basic policy questions that'll be yet more Biden could use to demonstrate Trumps incompetence.
 

steveovig

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,171
I love how a fair number of you actually think that everyone outside of the ERA bubble thinks just like you
 

Nola

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
8,025
Unfortunately the primary is needed to find the best candidate. People will have to rally behind the stronger one.
In an ideal world, it would work that way, but that is rarely reality IMO.

In 2007 Obama was, in hindsight, the clearly better candidate. But had John Edwards not dropped out the at-the-time progressive wing is fractured and Hillary cruises to the nomination.

Edwards split the non-establishment vote through the primary until one of them dropped and instantaneously almost all votes moved to Obama. Overnight catapulting him to neck and neck and starting the narrative that maybe the guy the base loved really was electable. The rest is history.

People focus too much on 16 and I think as this primary has shaped up so far, with Bernie, Warren, and Biden, it is the wrong allegory.
 

Bonafide

Member
Oct 11, 2018
936
I love how a fair number of you actually think that everyone outside of the ERA bubble thinks just like you

I've always seen this kind of talk on here and the old site and it doesn't make any sense, just seems like a way to not say...anything.

What's the "ERA bubble" and who's in it?
Who's saying everyone "thinks just like them"?
What makes someone's "bubble" more relevant than others?
 

steveovig

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,171
I've always seen this kind of talk on here and the old site and it doesn't make any sense, just seems like a way to not say...anything.

What's the "ERA bubble" and who's in it?
Who's saying everyone "thinks just like them"?
What makes someone's "bubble" more relevant than others?

ERA is a progressive base, of course they won't like Biden. The fact is Biden is the most electable guy out there right now since he is leading in Primary polls and head-to-head general polls. I understand that many of us are progressive, very muchso, including myself, but there are others in the party who are centrist, many of them infact.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,420
Listen I'm not thrilled about Biden but whatever it takes to remove Trump. Whatever it takes.


Thats never been an issue. When it comes to it, everyone knows this is the important thing. Don't let the discussion make you think anyone is on another page. Some will pout if he wins the nom and sit at home, but I dont expect that from many demos on the left with something at stake.

Whatever the hell it takes.