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NYT: Trump Is Said to Have Discussed Pardoning Himself
- Thread starter GK86
- Start date
I think he's really shot himself in the foot with atempting a coup. No way anyone will let anything slide. Dems and some Reps want to see this guy behind bars.
It's not actually clear. The latest Trump Con Law actually talks about precisely this.
If this somehow works, all Biden has to do is get some people to act as if Trump wasn't pardoned, hold a trial, and mete out whatever imprisonment is determined by the court.
Is that illegal? No problem. Biden can simply pardon himself and the others involved.
This is a joke, to be clear. Unless...
Is that illegal? No problem. Biden can simply pardon himself and the others involved.
This is a joke, to be clear. Unless...
Republicans have to play every move like a sleazy political chess game to keep their fragile and volatile base from canceling them and supporting a different (R). So there's a lot of placation, dodging questions, and thoughts like oh nothing like that will happen. It's finally blown up to epic proportions.
Yeah I don't think it's a precedent that even this supreme court would want to set.
This. The party has no shot in high level office positions by playing fair game. 2024 is gonna be a shit show
I hope he does. Everything he continues to do only hurts Republicans that continue to stand by him
Can someone explain what this would entail?
So like, from my understanding this would absolve him of various nondescript "Crimes" he may or may not have committed as president/during the presidency, right? And states like NY, etc would still be able to nail him on state crimes?
Or does this just blanket cover everything?
So like, from my understanding this would absolve him of various nondescript "Crimes" he may or may not have committed as president/during the presidency, right? And states like NY, etc would still be able to nail him on state crimes?
Or does this just blanket cover everything?
Pardons only cover federal crimes. State level is another world and he is still hopefully fucked there.
This could create some interesting scenarios. For example, if the legality of a self-pardon didn't hold up, would it be needless self-incrimination?
In Trump's warped mind he is justified in doing this because everyone is out to get him and the burden will be on them so may as well make it as hard as possible. He doesn't think he has done anything wrong and so he doesn't understand that if he does this any last political support (meaningful anyway) will abandon him even harder than they already have. Victimisation is the most prominent pillar of narcissism. We should actually hope he tries this tbh.
It's not an absolution, a pardon simply forgives the crime, so no punishment is given. The conviction still occurs, and is on the subject's permanent record.
It's highly unlikely that there will be any attempted prosecution of someone who has been pre-pardoned for the crime. That may happen for Trump because of the open question about self-pardons but when he pardons his kids that will be the end of federal prosecution of them up to the date of the pardon.
If he makes it to the 20th this will definitely happen. I have no faith that the 25th will be used just seems the latest of false hopes the left is clinging to. Impeachment and barring him from running for federal office is more likely as my understanding is that requires just a majority of votes. No idea how long that would take and I doubt removal will happen at all because of the senate. My money is that he is going to do it and it will be tested in court. It would be a terrible precedent for a president to be able to make themselves above the law, so i hope the courts rips the idea to shreds.
We've known this for months. It's uncharted legal territory, and I've said, it would throw one more wrench into any prosecutions. He can use it to help run out the clock, just like he did with his tax returns.
One more reason to remove him, and quickly. No more pardons, of himself or anyone else.
One more reason to remove him, and quickly. No more pardons, of himself or anyone else.
Agreed. It would definitely harden the resolve of any state level prosecutors.
Lol...if he's innocent, what would he need a pardon for?
This is insane.
You would think so, but who knows with the Supreme Court. It is accepted that one cannot be the judge in his or her own trial and also you get into the situation that if Trump can pardon himself it would mean the President is officially above the law and more akin to a monarch.
It's just one more part of the Constitution that isn't worded explicitly. It says the president can pardon people. It doesn't list exceptions. It doesn't go into detail.
Any judge with a functioning brain and knowledge of history would rule against it. I mean, the founders were specifically trying to construct a system where the president is NOT an "elected king".
But we've seen before: conservative judges will rule on intent one time, and on unspecific language another time. And many conservatives love the idea of an untouchable executive.
We'll see. It would be nice if an effect of all this would be a limit on pardons (no family, no admin personnel) and also throw out the Justice Dept's stupid "can't touch the president" rule.
Yes, he can. It is pretty much carte blanche and can be used that to pardon even potential crimes where there aren't even any charges yet.
Now, whether or is an admission of guilt to accept that kind of pardon is still unclear, but he can totally do that.
The pardon power, however, cannot be used in matters relating to impeachment, so that's one reason they should get on that.
Presidents are literally held to respect their office on the fucking honor system in this country lol
Doesn't the same guidance that says a sitting POTUS can't be prosecuted also say that they cannot pardon themselves?
The US allows the incumbent President so much power, that they're effectively kings for four years. It's incredibly undemocratic.
The only reason this hasn't come into play since Nixon is that most Presidents are good at saying the quiet part quietly.
A self-pardon has to be the most anti-Democratic, anti-Judicial act I can think of.
So yes, Trump will do it. Absolutely. He may have done it already for all we know.
So yes, Trump will do it. Absolutely. He may have done it already for all we know.
He would have to admit he committed crimes in order to pardon himself.
He hasn't even been charged with anything yet.
He might actually be setting himself up for jail time if he admits he committed crimes and then the court throws out his pardon.
He hasn't even been charged with anything yet.
He might actually be setting himself up for jail time if he admits he committed crimes and then the court throws out his pardon.
Yeah, this is probably how it would play out... and most of his crimes probably have a state crime component.
He'd probably do a blanket pardon, but that similarly needs to be tested in court.
Any self-pardon Trump carries out could likely be treated as a confession.
I forgot where I read it, but by pardoning yourself, does that not mean you are also admitting you did something bad in the first place? Lol.