NYT Takes A Deep Dive Into The Alleged Systemic Bullying By Sanders Supporters

[Deleted member 3896]

The NYT has a pretty lengthy piece on the allegedly abusive tactics used by some Sanders supporters against his critics, especially toward women. There's a lot there and imo this is an important conversation to have as we work through the primaries. The article is more than an op-ed-- it's sourced fairly well and incorporates a response from the Sanders campaign.

When Mr. Sanders's supporters swarm someone online, they often find multiple access points to that person's life, compiling what can amount to investigative dossiers. They will attack all public social media accounts, posting personal insults that might flow in by the hundreds. Some of the missives are direct threats of violence, which can be reported to Twitter or Facebook and taken down.

More commonly, there is a barrage of jabs and threats sometimes framed as jokes. If the target is a woman, and it often is, these insults can veer toward her physical appearance. For some perceived Sanders critics, there has been mail sent to home addresses — or the home addresses of relatives. The contents were unremarkable: news articles about the political perils of centrism. The message seemed clear: We know where you live.

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Some progressive activists who declined to back Mr. Sanders have begun traveling with private security after incurring online harassment. Several well-known feminist writers said they had received death threats. A state party chairwoman changed her phone number. A Portland lawyer saw her business rating tumble on an online review site after tussling with Sanders supporters on Twitter.

Other notable targets have included Ady Barkan, a prominent liberal activist with A.L.S. — whom some Sanders-cheering accounts accused of lacking decision-making faculties due to his illness as he prepared to endorse Senator Elizabeth Warren — and Fred Guttenberg, the father of a shooting victim from the 2018 Parkland massacre, who had criticized Mr. Sanders's statements about gun violence.

"Politics is a contact sport," said Bakari Sellers, a former South Carolina State legislator who supported Ms. Harris in the Democratic primary. "But you have to be very cognizant when you say anything critical of Bernie online. You might have to put your phone down. There's going to be a blowback, and it could be sexist, racist and vile."

In recent days, he said, one man sent a profanity-filled private message on Instagram, calling Mr. Sellers, who is black, an "Uncle Tom" and wishing him brain cancer.

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Interviews with current and former staff members and major online supporters make clear that top advisers — and often, Mr. Sanders himself — are acutely aware of the bile spread in his name.

In February 2019, shortly after announcing his second presidential run, Mr. Sanders emailed a letter to surrogates. "I want to be clear," he said, "that I condemn bullying and harassment of any kind and in any space."

That he felt compelled to append this note to his national reintroduction was perhaps as telling as its contents.

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His allies also argue that online combat is not unique to the Sanders side, with some high-profile women who support the senator saying they have been attacked, too.

"The same folks who want to complain that Sanders supporters are more vicious than anybody else never come out to chastise the supporters of other candidates," said Nina Turner, a former Ohio state senator and Mr. Sanders's national campaign co-chair.

But many political veterans outside the Sanders operation fault the campaign's handling of the vitriol.

Jess Morales Rocketto, a progressive strategist who worked on campaigns for Barack Obama and Mrs. Clinton, said Mr. Sanders had empowered aides and surrogates who "have a tendency to aggressively amplify things that a campaign would normally shut down amongst supporters."

"There are always people who say things that are problematic. It's not that that is unique to Bernie's campaign," she said. "What's unique is it is a consistent problem in the universe of Bernie Sanders."

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Bernie Sanders and His Internet Army (Published 2020)

At the start of his 2020 bid, the Vermont senator told his supporters that he condemned bullying. Is it his problem if many don’t seem to listen?

www.nytimes.com

 

[WhySoDevious]

You don't have to go far at all to see this happening.

 

[Fisty]

Sounds like the internet doing what the internet does

 

[Damaniel]

I don't have any serious issues with Bernie as a candidate (his age is concerning, but I like where he's coming from from a policy standpoint), but his most vocal supporters need to dial their actions way the hell back if they want to be taken seriously - they indirectly give him a bad name though their actions.

(And yes, this behavior is pretty much exclusive to Bernie - you don't see Warren or Pete supporters doxxing the people who don't support their candidates).

 

[Dalek]

I don't have any serious issues with Bernie as a candidate (his age is concerning, but I like where he's coming from from a policy standpoint), but his most vocal supporters need to dial their actions way the hell back if they want to be taken seriously - they indirectly give him a bad name though their actions.

(And yes, this behavior is pretty much exclusive to Bernie - you don't see Warren or Pete supporters doxxing the people who don't support their candidates).

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I agree with this entirely.

 

[supra]

"Politics is a contact sport," said Bakari Sellers, a former South Carolina State legislator who supported Ms. Harris in the Democratic primary. "But you have to be very cognizant when you say anything critical of Bernie online. You might have to put your phone down. There's going to be a blowback, and it could be sexist, racist and vile."

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This is rich considering the #Khive is by far the most toxic group of supporters online.

 

[Complicated]

Has there been any investigative work into the accounts doing this? Are they Americans and genuine Bernie supporters?

 

[Deleted member 16365]

Can confirm the swarming. It's happened to me personally for asking something as reasonable as "how's he going to pay for that?"

 

[TheZynster]

I don't have any serious issues with Bernie as a candidate (his age is concerning, but I like where he's coming from from a policy standpoint), but his most vocal supporters need to dial their actions way the hell back if they want to be taken seriously - they indirectly give him a bad name though their actions.

(And yes, this behavior is pretty much exclusive to Bernie - you don't see Warren or Pete supporters doxxing the people who don't support their candidates).

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not to mention the first candidate to have their party fucking text me......hell everyone at work got a text saying to support bernie from his group. It's fucking annoying

 

[BarringGaffner]

Sounds like the internet doing what the internet does

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this. And Bernie has the youth vote so he has the online hoard on his side... all the good and the bad with it.

I don't have any serious issues with Bernie as a candidate (his age is concerning, but I like where he's coming from from a policy standpoint), but his most vocal supporters need to dial their actions way the hell back if they want to be taken seriously - they indirectly give him a bad name though their actions.

(And yes, this behavior is pretty much exclusive to Bernie - you don't see Warren or Pete supporters doxxing the people who don't support their candidates).

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I am sure we would have Pete bro's if people over 60 used twitter.

 

[JayBeeEll]

Hey, Obama boys: Back off already!
Young women are growing increasingly frustrated with the fanatical support of Barack and gleeful bashing of Hillary.

I've been really bothered by what I perceive as sexism [among some male Obama supporters] and have spent hours defending [Clinton] ... A lot of guys just can't stand Hillary, and it's the intensity of their irritation with her that disturbs me more than their devotion to Obama."

[...]

Yet some female voters have begun to express nearly as much disenchantment with the Obama-mania of their peers as with their Clinton-promoting mothers. And even while they voice dismay over the retro tone of the pro-Clinton feminist whine, a growing number of young women are struggling to describe a gut conviction that there is something dark and funky, and probably not so female-friendly, running below the frantic fanaticism of their Obama-loving compatriots.
[...]

I was horrified by the frequent proclamations that if Obama did not win the nomination, his supporters would abstain from voting in the general election, or even vote for John McCain. I was suspicious of the cultlike commitment to an undeniably brilliant and inspiring man –- but one whom even his wife calls "just a man."
[...]

received e-mails and phone calls from women voicing various strains of frustration: They told me about the sexism they felt coming from their brothers and husbands and friends and boyfriends; some described the suspicion that their politically progressive partners were actually uncomfortable with powerful women
[...]


Bruch said that she's been politically progressive all her life but feels "a great distance" from her partisan peers, in part because of what she described as their "uncritical embrace of certain figures on the left," including Ralph Nader, Howard Dean, and now Obama. "You already see this idealistic longing projected on Obama," Bruch said. "People talk about him as a secular messiah who will bring us political salvation. There's no sense of what is plausible."

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[Deleted member 42055]

I'm sure this one will go well and I'm sure will not deteriorate into painting all Sanders supporters with the same brush, completely overlooking how diverse his coalition of supporters is by Saying " Bernie Bros." over and over. That said, of course any sort of bullying by anyone's supporters is inexcusable

 

[TXULJ]

this. And Bernie has the youth vote so he has the online hoard on his side... all the good and the bad with it.

I am sure we would have Pete bro's if people over 60 used twitter.

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You don't have to like Pete but his fanbase, at least on reddit, is actually pretty chill and open.

 

[Seattle6418]

I lost a bet, i though "Bernie might win, but will hurt senate races" would be the first line of attack this week.

So the angry Bernie bro, once again. In the end i think this helps, because having strong supporters will help you in situations like caucuses.

I think having no online presence at all (Joe Biden) is much worse than having crazy angry supporters.

 

[cognizant]

12% voted for Trump last time. 12%. :|

 

[MasterOfPastures]

Man, everyone became jordan peterson once the snake emojis started getting posted.

 

[medinaria]

ah yes, noted "completely innocent bystander" candace aiston



like, I'm not gonna pretend that people don't start shit on the internet. I'm also not gonna pretend that people don't go way too far with it, because I've been on the internet once or twice. but having an article about the dreaded Bernard Brothers and basically using some of the most supremely toxic liberal twitterers as evidence is... like, it lends credence to the view that this is only a problem when it comes from one side, and it's presented that way for a reason

 

[Deleted member 16365]

I lost a bet, i though "Bernie might win, but will hurt senate races" would be the first line of attack this week.

So the angry Bernie bro, once again. In the end i think this helps, because having strong supporters will help you in situations like caucuses.

I think having no online presence at all (Joe Biden) is much worse than having crazy angry supporters.

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Can't say I agree with you on having passionate supporters can't hurt you. I guarantee you that you wouldn't have to look hard to find someone who likes Bernie's platform but doesn't want to associate with his more colorful fans which drives them towards Warren who is very similar but doesn't have the inmates running the asylum feeling that you get when on Bernie pages.

I'll try to find it, but there was a study that the median age of a Bernie supporter on Reddit was below voting age. I like that younger people are getting involved but when look at an underaged hostile "BernieBro" and you remove their ability to caucus or vote you're left with only hostility and toxicity.

 

[Powdered Egg]

What a disengenuous article.

Fuck the erasure of minority Bernie supporters too.

 

[Artdayne]

Can confirm the swarming. It's happened to me personally for asking something as reasonable as "how's he going to pay for that?"

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People get defensive when hearing conservative talking points.

 

[Gernau Morat Gurgeh]

Hey, Obama boys: Back off already!
Young women are growing increasingly frustrated with the fanatical support of Barack and gleeful bashing of Hillary.

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lol

 

[loneliestwizard]

Between their goofy double endorsement and this, the NYT is flailing wildly.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

ah yes, noted "completely innocent bystander" candace aiston



like, I'm not gonna pretend that people don't start shit on the internet. I'm also not gonna pretend that people don't go way too far with it, because I've been on the internet once or twice. but having an article about the dreaded Bernard Brothers and basically using three of the most supremely toxic liberal twitterers as evidence is... like, it lends credence to the view that this is only a problem when it comes from one side, and it's presented that way for a reason

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Is that the same Candice Aiston who weaponised the trauma of a rape survivor (even after the victim publicly asked her to stop) in order to try and shit on Bernie?

 

[MasterOfPastures]

Between their goofy double endorsement and this, the NYT is flailing wildly.

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Those editor meetings must be something else.
"I keep mashing the misogyny bernie bros button, but nothing is happening! WHY ISNT IT WORKING?!"

 

[Kthulhu]

I do agree that the campaign could be a bit better about it but I don't think it's in their power to stop it.

I think a good solution would be for Sanders to advocate for regulations that punish social media companies that knowingly allow harassment to occur. It'd send a clear message and actually help twords finding a solution.

 

[Rodrigues solitaire]

"You can't control these folks," RoseAnn DeMoro, a vocal Sanders supporter and former leader of National Nurses United, said of his online base. "I should say, 'us folks.'"

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What is Bernie supposed to do against the vitriol of a hyper-polarised internet? As if a statement put out will have any effect.

 

[thewienke]

Hey, Obama boys: Back off already!
Young women are growing increasingly frustrated with the fanatical support of Barack and gleeful bashing of Hillary.

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One nice side effect of hopefully winning the Presidency in 2020 is not having to go through another Democratic primary cycle. Feels like people lose their god damn minds during the whole process.

 

[Powdered Egg]

Hey, Obama boys: Back off already!
Young women are growing increasingly frustrated with the fanatical support of Barack and gleeful bashing of Hillary.

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LMAO!! Aaaaaaaaand we're done here. The Bought wing of the Democratic Party should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Deleted member 3896]

I do agree that the campaign could be a bit better about it but I don't think it's in their power to stop it.

I think a good solution would be for Sanders to advocate for regulations that punish social media companies that knowingly allow harassment to occur. It'd send a clear message and actually help twords finding a solution.

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I like that idea. And I think a more active engagement from the campaign with its supporters with regard to bullying could go a long way.

 

[Fisty]

People get defensive when hearing conservative talking points.

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People also get annoyed having to answer questions that have been covered dozens of times by the candidate and surrogates and can easily be googled

 

[zero_suit]

What a disengenuous article.

Fuck the erasure of minority Bernie supporters too.

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Without erasure, the narrative collapses.

 

[Kthulhu]

Between their goofy double endorsement and this, the NYT is flailing wildly.

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This article is pretty banal. I don't think the author is trying to be acucusitory.

 

[Deleted member 6582]

We saw it here in the Warren/Bernie thread. Bernie can't control his fanatics but I'd really like him to tell them to settle the fuck down regarding misogynistic dog piling.

 

[ThatMeanScene]

This piece is junk. It's not worth a thread.

 

[thewienke]

What is Bernie supposed to do against the vitriol of a hyper-polarised internet? As if a statement put out will have any effect.

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It would probably hurt him more than anything since any such statement is also an admission that there's a problem with his base and just validates the critics.

Why support a candidate that admits there are problems when you can support someone that doesn't?

 

[Kernel]

The problem with populism and defining your politics as "us vs them". Certain people will take it a little too literally.

I'm seeing the same sort of thing in Canada starting up as well.

 

[platocplx]

I don't have any serious issues with Bernie as a candidate (his age is concerning, but I like where he's coming from from a policy standpoint), but his most vocal supporters need to dial their actions way the hell back if they want to be taken seriously - they indirectly give him a bad name though their actions.

(And yes, this behavior is pretty much exclusive to Bernie - you don't see Warren or Pete supporters doxxing the people who don't support their candidates).

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I agree. It's eerily cult like how some sanders supporters act on top of promising the moon and stars when it comes to him. Literally saw one that was claiming he'd implement a constitutional amendment.
If he's the dem nominee then I'm cool with it. But man some of his supporters are toxic as hell.

 

[Deleted member 78]

Didn't Poliera bully a Sanders supporter away from the site?

 

[John Dunbar]

Didn't Poliera bully a Sanders supporter away from the site?

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doesn't count.

 

[Damaniel]

People get defensive when hearing conservative talking points.

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It's a legitimate question, and one that anybody outside of the far left is going to demand an answer to. Contrary to popular belief, you need support outside of your base to win, and most people outside of that base are 'centrist'. And this applies to any of the Democratic candidates - people are going to want to know how we intend to support trillions of dollars of new spending, and the challenge will be to convince people that raising the extra revenue (whether through taxing billionaires, reducing military spending, or just raising taxes in general) is worth the benefits we get from doing so - I know it is, but try convincing my parents of that. It's better to have answers to these questions now (while we're still just at the party debate level) than be blindsided by the reality of American politics by the time we get to the general election.

 

[Deleted member 16365]

People get defensive when hearing conservative talking points.

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Doesn't make it an unreasonable question. I consider myself a left leaning moderate. I am fine paying taxes if they're going to programs that need them, and I like the idea of universal healthcare and paid college, which is why I am voting for Warren. At least she has a plan for how to pay for those programs, even if it means I might see a slight bump in my liability come tax time though it sounds like for now she's only going after the top 1% which I certainly am not.

What has always been missing from Bernie's platform in my opinion, and the only thing keeping me from supporting him is that he has great ideas but no means to pay for them, and doesn't seem to have a plan. I can't tell you how many times I've been attacked for asking that one question.

 

[Powdered Egg]

Without erasure, the narrative collapses.

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Exsctly!

It's so annoying, I've been accused of being White twice here. The only time I want to be mistaken for White is when my credit gets checked.

 

[kradical]

full-on panic mode

 

[leder]

not to mention the first candidate to have their party fucking text me......hell everyone at work got a text saying to support bernie from his group. It's fucking annoying

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I get 100 times more Warren text spam than Bernie. Probably more Bernie emails though

 

[Stinkles]

NYT is trash.

I don't care how true it is, or how angry Bernie "Bros" are or if they're even real as a force in the universe. I do care that the desired chaos and anger and infighting that Trump, the GOP and even Russia want, is absolutely happening. And yes, Bernie threads on this site are more fractious and caustic as time goes on - just like 2016. To neuter it there's only one thing for people to do, which is commit to being honest about your candidate, try to get them nominated and then vote D in 2020 regardless of whether they win or not. And to vote for policies not people.

In 2020 you're not voting for a person who can achieve your stated goals - you're voting for a person who can stop the descent into existential crisis and a supreme court that will eventually eliminate your ability to pick a candidate in the first place. That's not hyperbolic, that's the momentum and stated intention of the incumbent party.

Aside from Gabbard, there is not one (D) candidate who will be worse than Trump on policy, personality or substance. They are all vastly more moral, ethical, intelligent, capable and aligned with you and your candidate than Trump and the GOP are. If you decide to stay home then you should know that factually you have directly, statistically or morally contributed to the reelection of a candidate who will damage the lives of every citizen you claim to care about, the environment, American geopolitical standing and eventually (sooner than you think) the economy - global and local. And you will be empowering white nationalism, the erosion of the working and middle class, education, saration of church and state and the constitution itself. If you try to deny that, or present your personal philosophy or beliefs as equal to the danger presented to the country as a whole, you should at least admit that's what you're doingn and stop hiding behind principle or convoluted rhetoric about change, bullying, blackmail or "doesn'tmatterism and bothsidesism" and I strongly urge and implore you to vote anyway and for a candidate who is better than Trump.

And I'll keep repeating that till I get banned or die in the forthcoming Trumpocalypse.

 

[Ambient80]

People also get annoyed having to answer questions that have been covered dozens of times by the candidate and surrogates and can easily be googled

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Yeah nothing turns centrists to your cause more than telling them to Google something they asked about your candidate.

 

[Deleted member 4090]

Didn't Poliera bully a Sanders supporter away from the site?

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Could you link to the specific bullying?

Most of the time, PoliERA will mass refute crappy posts made by people that have nothing resembling basic knowledge of American Political History. That just happens to belong to Sanders supporters, just based on the demographics of who uses the site and the political lean of the average user.

I don't think they tend to seek channels outside of ResetERA to continue berating people.

 

[medinaria]

Is that the same Candice Aiston who weaponised the trauma of a rape survivor (even after the victim publicly asked her to stop) in order to try and shit on Bernie?

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they are, in fact, one and the same

it's important to state that there are people who genuinely don't deserve this type of criticism and that, clearly, there are things that are out of bounds. it's important to state that sanders explicitly said he's not here for this. however, I'm really tired of the framing that posits this as a uniquely sanders issue, because it simply isn't. if I'm being completely honest, some of these people go dangerously close into "I've been called a bedbug" territory with some of their "bullying" accusations, as though twitter exists for them to preach truth unto the masses without the masses also having the ability to go "no, shut up" in return.

(also, just to be clear, I do think that there is a systemic issue with harassment of women and minorities online, and it spans all political divides. there are many leftist women who have long, long lists of people - not sanders supporters - who have sent them rape threats, death threats, and so on. it's important to establish that, because I think it's responsible for the vast majority of documented harassment - that's not a political issue, though, nor is it unique to the dreaded Bernard Brothers.

well, I mean, it is a political issue, or should be. but not in the sense that it's related to candidate support.)

 

[Sibylus]

doesn't count.

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I miss brainchild.

 

[Deleted member 5359]

NYT shits the bed again. Time to make another donation to Actblue.