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NYT: American identity politics are a threat to France, French leaders say
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
Not just France. It has been bolstering the wrong parties in many European countries.
Better yet, don't invite racist relatives to the dinner table. Fuck that shit. You won't be able to talk them out of being racist.
Better yet, don't invite racist relatives to the dinner table. Fuck that shit. You won't be able to talk them out of being racist.
Yeah they don't even track race/ethnicity in their census.
"identity politics" is another one of my most hated terms born from the right projecting so heavily. I'll never forget the argument I got into with a family member who kept telling me I was obsessed with identity politics, because I wasn't willing to admit that the government wasn't doing anything for white males. I mean, fucking really...
Laudable idealism but if you dont track race based stats then racism is underreported or can't exist since you are limited in your reporting
Lol at the people coming into this thread shocked to see France bitching about progressive values and not the racism. They ain't as progressive as you think
White people are ALWAYS the victims. Always.
Fuck Macron. Fuck the rampant bigotry in France. Fuck their attempt at whitewashing away reality and history simultaneously.
Fuck Macron. Fuck the rampant bigotry in France. Fuck their attempt at whitewashing away reality and history simultaneously.
So what he's saying is that "woke" leftist ideas threaten his political career for holding him accountable for not reconciling with France's past?
If France imports progressive ideas from America, we might finally do some good abroad.
They make it sound like America is undergoing some radical progressive/leftist transformation though. We got rid of Trump and have had some anti-racism protests. What have we really done?
Fuck conservatives and regressives in France and everywhere else. I'm glad they're worried. The clock is ticking on their shitty ideas and ideals and reckoning and reconciling of many countries' pasts is coming, one way or another. That is in fact something you'd expect from a developed country which has any sense of intellectual honesty.
They make it sound like America is undergoing some radical progressive/leftist transformation though. We got rid of Trump and have had some anti-racism protests. What have we really done?
Fuck conservatives and regressives in France and everywhere else. I'm glad they're worried. The clock is ticking on their shitty ideas and ideals and reckoning and reconciling of many countries' pasts is coming, one way or another. That is in fact something you'd expect from a developed country which has any sense of intellectual honesty.
If you think conservative policies are going out of order when we're about to start a period that will make 2015 immigration look like a cakewalk i have a bridge to sell you
France is 85% white European. I don't really find this surprising at all.
People really need to abandon the idea that Europe is more progressive and better on race than America. These countries are much more ethnically homogenous than America, which is ~60% white. It's easy to not be racist when you don't actually live around anyone other than white Europeans. Also easier to get people to agree to large social safety nets when they aren't worried about the "other" getting some.
People really need to abandon the idea that Europe is more progressive and better on race than America. These countries are much more ethnically homogenous than America, which is ~60% white. It's easy to not be racist when you don't actually live around anyone other than white Europeans. Also easier to get people to agree to large social safety nets when they aren't worried about the "other" getting some.
The anti intellectualism is so painful. I thought France had seen what Le Pen and her ilk represent and had become an ally, even if just a centrist Liberal one. If the people who study things for a living are the ones you see as the biggest threat to your society, their might be something wrong with your society.
I see statements like this and wonder if something was lost in translation or people who should be smart enough to understand what their peers are saying are purposefully "misunderstanding" it.
It's bad enough that he is calling out his fellow frenchmen like this but why doesn't this article followup that assertion immediately with the presepctive of any of these researchers he referrences?
I have a very strong suspicion France's researcher group is dominated by white men.
Regardless as indicated by the article later on these ideas were initially introduced by native Frenchmen so a bunch of white men had no issue accepting the ideas and promoting it more.
By objecting in this manner he is just proving the point behind the "black question."
Being against Le Pen (you can replace her name with any other far-right politician) doesn't mean you can't be a different kind of racist/conservative
Conservatives and bigots were to the left of "us"? Who is "us" supposed to be here? Literal neo-nazis?
Those two "groups" were always right of centre.
It's way more than being a white thing. Europeans have been warring with each other for centuries because of how they view unity by ethnicity. They've spent all those wars shuffling around their populations until they finally established something resembling a bunch of for all intents and purposes mono-ethnic countries before becoming comfortable enough to allow a very limited number of different ethnicities to move around their borders when they created the EU.
When I encounter that argument from Repubs I just turn it back on them. "So, what has the Republican Party done for you other than appeal to your white identity?"
Holy shit. Starting to think France is just as shitty as the US
It's more that politics in the EU aren't as comparable to the US as many think. Most of Europe doesn't have birthright citizenship, for example, yet most of the Western Hemisphere does. At the same time most of the EU has universal healthcare and yet many western countries do not.
I have a friend from Marseilles. What fun discussion should I expect from other French people on the city?
I knew you'd be the one to reply to me, friend. I don't know much about the city. I guess people told me it was dangerous, which I didn't even know was tied to a race thing there. My friend from there didn't mention too much bad stuff from what I remember.
All of Europe is just as bad if not worse than the US when it comes to racism.
It's been a long time coming for France.
I thought it was going to be about this though:
www.theguardian.com
I thought it was going to be about this though:
'That's enough': France confronts decades of neglect of incest cases
Book alleging political scientist Olivier Duhamel sexually abused stepson has led to resignations and calls for changes to age of consent
www.theguardian.com
Terrorist attacks > fear > turning to the simple right wing solution to hate the other.
Standard cycle we have seen over and over again in history and what makes terrorism so effective. The actual hey maybe we have fucked up for centuries and destroyed so many lives, we need to stop being murderous colonizers and give reparations and let the areas we have savaged rebuild. But that is complicated, just hating the other is simpler.
Can't say I completely agree here. First of all, I would say it's important to not conflate all of Europe. There are of course some huge ex-colonial powers who were the bedrock of modern racism, like France in this discussion. In these cases it would be hard to argue they are better than the US.
On the other hand you have countries that had no hand in western colonialism/slavery, so they avoid a lot of the baggage of the ones that did. Looking at these states is something I don't think we should dismiss, though there are definitely some serious issues there as well. Furthermore, many of these states are some of the most prosperous in the world with the most generous social programs, while simultaneously having very high per capita refugees and migrants who are also some of the happiest immigrants anywhere in the world. Not something to easily dismiss.
As an addendum, large social safety nets are also present in more multicultural societies like Canada and New Zealand. And it's not like western European countries have negligible amounts of non-western immigrants either.
Saying "Crime = non-white" while ignoring all the other factors surrounding the situation is unfortunately a worldwide phenomenon
Do you really think that that is how terrorism is going to stop? Because that's certainly not how extremism in religion is going to absolve. Wishful and naive thinking.
Secularism and reform is the solution.
Yeah I think this is an important point to be made. Take Austria for example. While we obviously have our own super fucked up history with the nazis and all that, we never took black people as slaves. It seems kind of messed up to lump us into those racial discussions based on inequalities created and perpetuated by other white people in different countries just cause we happen to have the same skin color. Obviously Austria isn't perfect and has its own issues with racism, but you can't compare it to a history of literal ownership of other humans.
Austria participated in a massive genocide within the last 100 years.
User Banned (Permanent): Defending blackface, account in junior phase
Again, literally first thing acknowledged in my post. It wasn't on black people though, which is my whole point. We have our own messed up history and based on that, things that are taboo here are okay in the US (e.g. Jewish jokes like Family Guy pulls frequently are completely unacceptable), but things that are taboo in the US are okay here. (e.g. "blackface", as we have no history of systematically oppressing black folks and it doesn't have the same context linked to minstrel shows).
What I'm trying to say is it reeks of cultural imperialism to try and apply the American view on every society. We all have our own history and our societies are different as a result.
Let me put it this way. When they ordered public pools to be integrated in the South, they drained the pools.
I think Canada lucked out with better leadership in the 1960s . And it took an outsider 3rd party like Tommy Douglas to make it happen. At that point US and Canadian Healthcare were pretty similar.
I don't think Medicare would pass today. Even accounting fir our more moderate politics.
Richard Nixon of all people supported universal healthcare haha. 1960s Republicans would get laughed out of the room nowadays.
Look I don't want to sidetrack this conversation but I think you would benefit in research on how the Nazis treated black POWs during WW2. Anti-black racism has been rampant throughout the Western World for at least 500 years.
Didn't Republicans back then also support a form of UBI or is my historical examples getting mixed up?
I'd say vote him out but Macron is probably going to end up against Le Pen again in the runoff, right?
It would be really cool if the Socialist Party and La France Insoumise could form some sort of agreement to try make it to the second round but my incredibly limited understanding of French politics tells me that ain't happening.
It would be really cool if the Socialist Party and La France Insoumise could form some sort of agreement to try make it to the second round but my incredibly limited understanding of French politics tells me that ain't happening.