People jumping to the defense of that post need to realize that if you want to talk about mental health, you can't be that insensitive.
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NYPD on Twitter: "We regret to inform that Desmond Amofah aka Etika has been found deceased." (See guidelines before posting)
- Thread starter JB2448
- Start date
And if we are to have actual, fruitful discussion, bans can't be that reactionary. Yes it might take extra time to parse a posters intent, but it's worth the dialogue to dissect and learn from it.
While the "man the fuck up" part of the post was hurtful, and definitely triggers my own feelings of anger, the poster clearly was discussing in good faith.
RIP man.
I don't follow Youtube personalities, but this looks like it was a pretty rough one on the community that does. Hate to see someone lose their fight against their struggles :(.
I don't follow Youtube personalities, but this looks like it was a pretty rough one on the community that does. Hate to see someone lose their fight against their struggles :(.
Do you want to have a dialogue about mental illness or do you want to complain about moderation because this is all you guys have done. Telling someone with depression to man the fuck up is akin to saying "just kill yourself" its not fucking cool at all and there was nothing wrong with that user getting a ban for it.
Don't fucking lecture me about mental illness. You're talking to someone who has attempted to take their life twice and nearly succeeded the last time.
I want to discuss mental illness but I also want to make sure that the environment that cultivated the horrific previous threads can't be allowed to thrive here again. And that requires us not shutting down and canceling anyone who might show ignorance while attempting to discuss in good faith. That is having a discussion. We can't talk about it if he's banned. If he continues spew ignorance, THEN ban him.
"Man the fuck up"
"If you were really going to do it, you wouldn't be talking about it"
"Just kill yourself"
"Do it already then"
I've heard all of these before and so many others, and people who say these things don't think that they're helping. They're just selfish jerks who don't want to think about what other people are even going through. And there are countless people who have come in here and talked about their experiences with mental health, and this is a thread where the topic is literally someone dying. He could have stopped to actually listen to any one of us or think about the impact of what he was saying, but instead he just wanted to tell us how angry he gets when he sees depressed people and how we need to "man the fuck up"
RIP Etika. Had a lot of fun watching your Direct reactions.
The awareness of mental health issues is a general problem in our, you need to function, society. Im doing OT for a living and worked with people having for example depressions and bipolar disorder. And from my experiance mental illness does'nt have the equal status as a broken leg or a stroke, parcoinsons etc. couse you cant actually see it on person. So people more or less react with *cmon get out do something like partying and you'll be fine* but thats not how treatment of mental illness works at all.
The awareness of mental health issues is a general problem in our, you need to function, society. Im doing OT for a living and worked with people having for example depressions and bipolar disorder. And from my experiance mental illness does'nt have the equal status as a broken leg or a stroke, parcoinsons etc. couse you cant actually see it on person. So people more or less react with *cmon get out do something like partying and you'll be fine* but thats not how treatment of mental illness works at all.
Ironically I was just at a suicide-related funeral last night and one of the first threads I see checking the board today is of this man's self-inflicted passing.
I wish there were some fancy movie style time travel clips one could show our friends and loved ones who may feel this way to make them understand the aftermath and show them that more often than not, you really are greatly appreciated. I also understand what goes on in someone's mind during the lead-up so I'm more than likely just speaking from a place of hurt trying to wrap my head around the suddenness of my recent personal experience.
I don't know his content etc. to be honest but condolences to anyone who cared about him on here and to his family. It's a hard pill to swallow for everyone left behind.
It's an especially brutal issue in the States considering how utterly ruthless this country is in regards to not performing at 150% at all times. Imagine telling your American boss you need time off for mental health issues. In most cases that'll more than likely yield you a big "lol" or related reaction.
I wish there were some fancy movie style time travel clips one could show our friends and loved ones who may feel this way to make them understand the aftermath and show them that more often than not, you really are greatly appreciated. I also understand what goes on in someone's mind during the lead-up so I'm more than likely just speaking from a place of hurt trying to wrap my head around the suddenness of my recent personal experience.
I don't know his content etc. to be honest but condolences to anyone who cared about him on here and to his family. It's a hard pill to swallow for everyone left behind.
It's an especially brutal issue in the States considering how utterly ruthless this country is in regards to not performing at 150% at all times. Imagine telling your American boss you need time off for mental health issues. In most cases that'll more than likely yield you a big "lol" or related reaction.
The first thing to realize, which I think you're close to on your own, is that other people's experiences are different from your own. What is normal and consistent and lifelong for you can be very different for somebody else. People tend to relate to other people through shared experience. You recognize something somebody is going through because you went through something like that too. This helps people connect with other people. But when somebody's experience is different than yours, and you can't personally relate, the first thing to do is to leave your own expectations and experiences behind and open up to theirs.
Not understanding how people with mental health issues feel is a big reason they are stigmatized and often feel alone. They are called crazy or weak and they lose friends and struggle to make new ones because people who don't share their issues act like something is simply wrong with them. So when trying to understand what somebody else is going through, it helps to try to just listen to what their experiences are and try to form an image of their world instead of yours.
Telling to people to toughen up (or worse, "man up") puts the onus on mentally unwell people to simply get better. It's telling them that whatever they're feeling is their own fault and their own responsibility and they can just get better if they tried. This is something that works for some people, but for people who struggle with mental health this is the worst thing you can say to them. This doesn't offer them help. This doesn't make them feel understood. It makes them feel small, weak, and guilty. People suffer and struggle and sometimes even die trying to act like nothing is wrong and everything is fine. You have to meet people on their terms, not yours.
A lot of men in particular lack the emotional literacy to understand that they are unwell. They are depressed and anxious and self-harming, but they try to "man up" and suppress what they're feeling. Feeling like they can't ask for help without first admitting weakness stops people from coming forward, talking to others, and getting help. It gets worse and worse and has terrible effects on their lives and the lives of others. Ignoring problems, or minimizing them as something you can overcome with simple force of will, reinforces this system.
We have to help people admit when they are over their heads. We have to help people admit when they need help. We have to make getting help easy, and honest, and welcoming. Because when this is not the case, the result is tragedy. So you should be careful not to reinforce the idea that all people need is a change of perspective or to try harder at feeling better.. You shouldn't make people feel weak or incapable for not handling things we well as you have. That doesn't make them feel better. It makes them feel worse.
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It's one thing to ban somebody who's being purposefully malicious and it's another thing to ban somebody who's genienuly asking while offering their own perspective AND experience with that particular issue.
Posts like yours are exactly the reason why some people here find issue with moderation, you just want their head on the platter because he said this one silly thing while completely ignoring the rest of his message.
Of course it is, but he genuinely dont know about the subject. So the "notoriously" is not valid here.
I jumped to the defence of it as someone who has experienced it. I fucking HATE the term "Man up", I'm completely offended by the term "Man up". But it's coming from a post that genuinely seems like it wants to understand, so i want to have a polite discussion about it. Because there are thousands, perhaps millions of people out there who think the same thing. Maybe I can help them understand and not use the term in future, wouldn't that be better than the person going away learning nothing? Perhaps someone is reading the discussion and thinks "Oh shit, that makes sense, I'll make sure not to use that kind of dialogue in future". FUCKING WIN FOR US!
Stop moaning and engage, that's how we make things better, and that goes for all sensitive topics that appear on this forum.
if they're being outright toxic, go for it. Ban away. But genuine attempts of engagement and learning should not be obliterated and swept under the rug.
Stop moaning and engage, that's how we make things better, and that goes for all sensitive topics that appear on this forum.
if they're being outright toxic, go for it. Ban away. But genuine attempts of engagement and learning should not be obliterated and swept under the rug.
it's fine, I feel that mental health inefficiency as well
can only hope something gets done about it and vote people in that care
Sorry I snapped at words I've been hearing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over my entire life
I should have just manned up and ignored them
I think he was saying 'man the fuck up' to himself. He didn't actually tell someone else to do it. He gets angry for seeing things he doesn't understand. It happens to all of us. After many attempts at something unknown, we get frustrated. Thats exactly what happens. He doesn't understand why others can't get through it the way he did. Thats fine. That is exactly why he asked. Reading from previous stories a lot of professional help was mentioned, but what does that mean exactly? I think that is what this person is looking for. Answers to how other people got through it.
No, he quite clearly was not saying that to himself.
He wants to tell them to "man the fuck up" and enjoy life.
User banned (3 days): tone policing other members in a sensitive thread
First of all, I'm sorry to hear that, truly. However we're on a message board, we have ample time to collect our thoughts and explain to them WHY you are so sick of hearing it instead of asking for their head. I could understand snapping in a real life scenario since we are impulsive beings but in here, we should try to use that platform to educate rather than obliterate (unless of course somebody is being facetious).
First sorry, English is not my native language but I want to say as a medical student, I can say with confidence that telling a victim to man up is the worst possible suggestion. There are 100s of mental illness with different names, not all are same, and mental illness is totally different from normal sadness. It can't be solved by toughening up. It's like the brain is at a control by a different being, we are not control of our thoughts and actions. Also mental illness can happen to anybody. One doesn't need to have a shitty childhood, poverty etc , it can happen to you ,and it can happen to me too.
Something tells me the answer is "yes", regardless of the consequences.
Fuck man. That's heavy. He should have gotten so much more help.
Yep and it drive me nuts. He is out of the "circle", knowing and saying is out of it, and he said a stupid thing. Some are in the circle, can explained it to him (like he asked) and let him join the circle, but they decided to let him out and making him speechless. It is disgusting.
Almost like someone who has difficulty doing these things might have a mental illness
Sorry I promise to man up and not let those posts get to me again
This is terrible news. RIP Etika. After reading the last thread it seemed the signs were on the wall but I still held a glimmer of hope that maybe he'd turn out to be alright. I should probably thank my lucky stars that I've fortunately never had to deal with issues like those plaguing him but hopefully he's in a better place now.
And I agree with some of you that moderation here is a little too trigger happy sometimes but can we please not derail the thread about that?
And I agree with some of you that moderation here is a little too trigger happy sometimes but can we please not derail the thread about that?
You're asking a question where the answer is based on an almost infinite amount of variables. There are so many different factors involved with how people deal with mental health issues or just life in general.
If you are already struggling with a mental illness, the cards are stacked against you in terms of how you process even normal day events and occurrences. Some may still find a way to cope, but others may not, for example due to stresses, negativity and loss. In Etika's case, he was dealing with his illness by not acknowledging it fully. That is the most dangerous thing one can do when sick. Mental health is just like physical health in the way that, if you have a sickness, sometimes treatment is required to heal or at least continue to function.
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It's been a day and this is still so very hard to process. Etika was honestly one of the brightshining lights on the net in general. His happiness and all around hype that he shared with everyone was always a thing that could help make someone's crappy day go better.
I guess all I can say now is that I hope he's finally at peace and that the mental demons that had him feeling this way as well as all the hate and jokes that he received as well as got made at his expense can't hurt him anymore. RIP Etika
I guess all I can say now is that I hope he's finally at peace and that the mental demons that had him feeling this way as well as all the hate and jokes that he received as well as got made at his expense can't hurt him anymore. RIP Etika
This makes me really upset. At work and trying to hold back the tears.
We're never going to reach where you want to go. That's just how society is. You can only keep teaching and helping others as you can.
People are allowed to be upset when others say things that upset them. Sure banning was probably the wrong course of action but saying "man up" in a thread about a young man who has killed themselves is going to hurt others. The people calling for bans need to be more thoughtful and not make snap judgements but at the same time your post isn't helping matters either.
Bad faith arguers: Mods are too insensitive to mental health issues
Mods ban user who tell those who are depressed to "man up." A highly douchey thing to say.
Bad faith arguers: Wow that guy didn't deserve to be banned. Mods are being tyrants.
I KNEW it would come to this. I knew it wasn't a concern for mental health awareness. It's just taking vengeful piss swipes at Era.
Mods ban user who tell those who are depressed to "man up." A highly douchey thing to say.
Bad faith arguers: Wow that guy didn't deserve to be banned. Mods are being tyrants.
I KNEW it would come to this. I knew it wasn't a concern for mental health awareness. It's just taking vengeful piss swipes at Era.
Bingo. Theres a handful who care overshadowed by a mass thats just mad about mods
Not singling you out but I get it, I still hear this almost daily from people in my life. It's still unfortunately one of the most common canned phrases people use, along with the timely classics of "just go outside" and "just go out and meet people". The vast majority of people never have to actively question these things, which is great for them obviously but means they come across as insensitive without realising it. It may seem like common sense to us, but people come from all sorts of backgrounds and this is far from common
You're being reductive. They said something shitty but the post was insightful regarding their experience. It's not any less valid. It didn't deserve a ban in my opinion.
To label everyone who had a problem with that as 'bad faith arguers' is just trying to stir shit.
You mean people aren't being upset that the mods are taking their advice?
I'll go ahead and say I don't care what the punishment is/was but please don't tell your friends to just man up or just get over it. You wouldn't say just don't have a broken arm to a person with a broken arm so don't trivialize what I'm going through. I can't speak for everyone but I personally hate being told this because it's absolute bullshit and usually earns a go fuck yourself pretty quickly. Trust me if I knew what it was I would very much so attempt to just get over it.
What about those of us who stated the former but not the latter? In fact I think that him saying that and being supported by so many to the point that the mods backtracked is evidence that there's a problem.
You're making mental health into a black and white issue... The guy said something 'douchey', sure, and needed to be educated that it is wrong to say these things. How is a ban going to solve that, especially if the rest of his post is read and that he probably has some serious mental health issues himself that he hasn't dealt with yet?
Etika also said some douchey things when he wasn't in a healthy state of mind too, look what happened there. Bans are not the answer, neither is attacking anyone. To be honest I don't even know what the answer is and I'm not sure anyone does and that is the problem here.
What!? It was a post at an attempt to learn from people who have experienced mental health issues. How fucking dare you label me a "bad faith arguer" because I don't think a person should be banned for trying to understand people like ME a little bit better. No one is defending the term Man Up, in fact we're universally against that term, we're defending his right to ask a genuine question in a civil environment. You are the worst kind of person to try and defend MY plight. Piss off.
Edit: Perhaps posting about Civil Environments, while letting that anger out is a bit much! lol
User Banned (3 days): false equivalence, history of similar behavior
I don't see in my post where I am saying people are not allowed to be upset. They are allowed to feel whatever they feel, like everyone else in the world.
But if people start to ignoring people who asked for understanding, nothing will ever change.
I am upset because people doesn't help people who asked for it, am I not allowed to be upset?
Didn't follow him but this is a battle that it's always sad to see someone lose. RIP to him and hope that his family is eventually able to find some kind of closure.
Please be respectful towards one another when discussing experiences with mental health
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We know that there are many members here who want to have an honest conversation about mental health and their experiences with it. There is an opportunity to discuss these things and learn from each other in a meaningful way. But if this is to happen, people must be considerate to the sensitivity of the issue. Please do not be dismissive or antagonistic towards one another, especially members with personal experiences that relate to this topic.
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I feel like we're talking past each other.
It wasn't steviejd1's words.
Because it's not that simple, and even if someone "man ups" they usually just repress those feelings and it comes back even worse in the future because you've never actually dealt with the issue.
Manning up is the equivalent of when kids get told to clean their room and they just shove everything under the bed.
I'm glad things worked out for you and I didn't let depression break me but we're not all built the same way. You have no idea what any of these people go through, so who are we to judge?