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Jun 2, 2019
4,947
People need to not shit on the entire mod team over the actions of one individual

This is the last time I'll post about this issue in particular, but rest of the mod team gets involved from the very moment that individual gets away from it with barely a slap in the wrist.

I don't want to shit on the full mod/admin body either, but I would say that if the individual isn't properly sanctioned then the people in charge is also at fault to a degree.

Now, I have pledged to personally keep out of this discussion in the thread, so pleas if you want to reply I'll be happy to discuss in private
 
I think if anything, this whole situation I've seen unfold on various websites shows that the internet in general has a big issue with understanding the urgency and identifying people who really need mental health assistance. Most often, such things are usually dismissed or downplayed ("Why doesn't he get help on his own?" is a big one that gets thrown around a lot). The various antics Etika did definitely does not help and ends up blurring the line between whether "he is doing for the views!" or "he really needs help!".

I really hope people become aware of the importance of mental health and how it is important to be able to identify whether something serious needs to be done. I know some people thought his antics and the whole suicide thing was an act and several are understandably upset at those people, but it shows some people really don't have the awareness of how important mental health is. That's a general thing and extends to pretty much the entire internet.

R.I.P. Desmond.
 

Pancoar

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,551
Had no idea this thread existed... Must've missed it. Shouldn't have read that first page. Might need a break after reading some of this.
God the replies in that thread are sickening and so hurtful. People posting shit like "Here we go again" really need to just fucking step back and get some damn empathy
he kept refusing help which is what made it harder to care.
Disgusting. That's all I have to say to you.
 

Stiler

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
6,659
This is something I dreaded seeing after he went missing, I was so hoping he'd be found ok and get help somehow. RIP to him.

I didn't really follow him or his bubble but as someone on the outside looking in at his situation he seemed like a genuinely nice person who was struggling with mental issues and had problems.

There were who thought it was a joke/egged him on doing things. Then you had people that then assumed it was an act/put on and just attention seeking from him and basically either ignored him or made fun of him.

This had to be incredibly isolating for him in between all of that and there was nothing in place for him to get the help he needed and to KEEP getting it (because of laws and procedures), this kind of thing absolutely needs to change, people in such situations need to be treated and get the treatment they need without being thrown back out of the system or abandoned.
 

Bass2448

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
565
I am not seeing what is wrong with that statement. Everything that was going on there was making it real hard to feel for him. But just cause I wasn't feeling for him at that place in time doesn't mean I think he deserved to die. It doesn't mean I thought with absolute certainty he wasn't capable of doing it, he kept refusing help which is what made it harder to care.

His Ex-GF got him in the hospital twice and he told them to not help them both times. Imagine how she felt knowing she tried her hardest to save him but he kept denying it.

I believe you are taking this entire situation too rationally. I wasn't a fan of Etika, his actions, and his style of youtube channel but it doesn't change the fact he and his family deserve our condolences and positive thoughts. He brought joy to alot of people despite a period of lashing out. That's where my heart went when I saw the title of this thread. Not toward the negative.
 

The Last Laugh

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Dec 31, 2018
1,440
really dissapointed in how some people are using this thread to critique the mods.
You seem to be willfully oblivious that any thread made to do so is immediately closed and scuttled.
I am woefully sorry that is had to come to a tragedy like this and even more so that it is polluting people who are truly sad over this loss of life. But there was a promise made when this forum was created and that has fallen short.
It needs to be addressed. Publicly and openly without bullying or threats of banning overt and subtle.
 

Deleted member 8001

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
There are plenty of things wrong here.

The fact that mental illness severely affects a person's decision-making skills and cognitive ability (which include rejecting help from friends family) is a problem.

That fact that awareness when it comes to mental illness is a joke, is a problem.

Your lack of empathy is a problem.
I'll leave the thread.

RIP to Etika.
 

Doof

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,434
Kentucky
I think if anything, this whole situation I've seen unfold on various websites shows that the internet in general has a big issue with understanding the urgency and identifying people who really need mental health assistance. Most often, such things are usually dismissed or downplayed ("Why doesn't he get help on his own?" is a big one that gets thrown around a lot). The various antics Etika did definitely does not help and ends up blurring the line between whether "he is doing for the views!" or "he really needs help!".

I really hope people become aware of the importance of mental health and how it is important to be able to identify whether something serious needs to be done. I know some people thought his antics and the whole suicide thing was an act and several are understandably upset at those people, but it shows some people really don't have the awareness of how important mental health is. That's a general thing and extends to pretty much the entire internet.

R.I.P. Desmond.

Right, if anything this should be a learning experience.

Wow, this is gaining traction faster than I expected.

you do realize that there are entire communities set up to watch this website's every move right
and that "resetera" is a boogeyman in pretty much any other gaming community, yeah
so like, of course people are gonna be champing at the bit to shit on the site
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
As SweetNicole said, it's up to the community to make changes, not just the moderation.

The mods simply remind others of the site's rules. It's not up to them to steer the conversation in a more productive direction. It's up to the majority of people in the conversation i.e. the users.

That kind of idealistic "solution" is how we end up with sites like 4chan and voat.

Mods should steer discussion and lead by example. The previous Etika thread ended up being the way it did because mods were unwilling to steer the discussion in a productive manner (and in some cases, joining in).

That's a problem, but it's a fixable problem.
 
Apr 8, 2018
1,806
I never really followed Etika, but this is just really sad to hear. I have seen a few of his reaction videos before and he seemed like a really cool dude. Recently watched his "I'm Sorry" video and it makes this even more upsetting.

RIP
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,809
Man...RIP. He really needed help and he didn't get it. I know some of his words were hurtful, but he still deserved all the help he needed because it was clear he was suffering.

I've had too many friends in the US battling illnesses like depression and it's crushing how little you can do except lending an ear. I can't call anyone if someone is showing serious signs, and even if I do all the horror stories about psychiatric hospitals makes me scared. How are they going to be treated? what about the bills? for how long?

The cops even just laughed at me when I tried to call from a foreign country for a welfare check despite having information. This shit fucking sucks. You can't help people in this country.

I mean, one of the biggest problems with mental health is that a lot of mental health disorders have built-in safeguards designed to prevent themselves from being addressed. Depression is a bastard, because it knows how to make you appear just lucid enough that a hospital that would want to help you can't help you because the law prevents them from holding a lucid patient against their will. I've literally seen it happen with my own brother - the kid needed real, long-term help, but he was able to feign lucidity long enough that the doctors had to release him and he was right back to spitting venom and threatening to kill the rest of my family within days. He walked out of rehab early no less than five separate times.

We talk so much about access to care, which is certainly important, but the thing a lot of us don't talk about is the fact that mental health issues are insidious and will do everything in their power to remain untreated, to re-establish a level of toxic normalcy that eats the sufferer away from the inside out even when they WANT to get help on some level.

How can we treat people who don't want to be helped? And how can we treat people who know they need help but their disorders make it possible for them to walk right out of a treatment center without addressing the underlying problems that got them in in the first place? Mental health is such a complicated beast and there seems to be no right way to handle it, no right way to talk about it. Every brain is different and every person needs to be handled differently, and I don't know if contemporary human society is equipped to DO that.
 

Deleted member 225

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,658
A lot of his "fans" treated him not like a person, but as a sitcom character in a dumpster fire of an internet show for his own amusement.

It's a pretty big problem in a heavily connected, social media / streamer world.
I get that, but at the same time suggesting going dark on someone with suicidal tendencies never works.
 

MillionIII

Banned
Sep 11, 2018
6,816
Holy shit wasn't he hospitalized for what happened in his apartment? Fuck this is so sad, I liked his reaction videos for the switch, RIP...
 

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,115
As SweetNicole said, it's up to the community to make changes, not just the moderation.

The mods simply enforce the site's rules. It's not up to them to steer the conversation in a more productive direction. It's up to the majority of people in the conversation i.e. the users.
And what if the community wants to discuss how it's moderated?
 

Alvis

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,233
Spain
I'm super disappointed in the way this has been handled. I just hope that in the future, dismissing mental health issues and suicide notes doesn't get a free pass in here. Even if I was excessive in my tone/wording when calling people out (and I definitely was, so sorry about that), I don't think that removing these callouts and doing nothing is the solution here. But whatever. I just hope we learn from this. That's all I ask from this site. Both from the admin/mods and the users themselves.

I hope Etika's family is ok.
 

Dakkon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,200
People had valid reasons to be skeptical of Etika

If someone has empathy for their fellow humans, there is no logic or valid reason behind being skeptical of someone (and other people) saying they have mental problems and them acting suicidal (the guy assaulted a police officer while black ffs).

If someone is faking it and you:
* believe they're serious: you get tricked, but you're a nice person
* don't believe them: you didn't get tricked, but you're still a dick because you couldn't have known that 100% in advance. They're a dick too mind, but that doesn't excuse not believing them.

If someone is actually serious and you:
* believe they're serious: you're a nice person, and you might even save/improve their life.
* don't believe them: you're a huge asshole that could have helped contribute to the problem.

Being able to believe the accusations and either help your fellow person directly or hope they get help is always the right thing to do, because at least the worst thing that can happen if you believe someone who winds up lying is you tried to be a good, honest, person. Being skeptical/not believing/actually being crude to someone who needs help just makes you a shitty person regardless of if they were serious or not.

Ya I get he's said hurtful stuff, you're not the only person that's been affected by said hurtful stuff, and were he still alive that'd be something he'd have to tackle whenever he got his mental issues sorted out, but there's a difference between a white supremacist who wants a hetero white ethno nation state and someone whose mind is genuinely fractured (and had other people backing that up) and aren't even fully capable of just being themselves and is making rash decisions to try to overcome the overwhelming depression and mental anxiety they feel.

If we lose our ability to understand nuance and display empathy, then we're just doomed as a species. It'll also bode worse for minorities and LGBT in general, because without proper nuance and without proper empathy, we're the first to lose. Leave the lack of empathy, nuance, and care for our fellow human to the white supremacists please. We can do better than being skeptical or rude to someone crying for help.
 

LuckyLinus

Member
Jun 1, 2018
1,938
The problem is most people didn't even know the man, but saw that he said bad stuff on twitter and instantly labelled him as a racist homophobe, and everytime they saw his name their reactions were...well like the ones we have seen.
I love that this forum has progressive values in terms of racism, gender equality and phobias. But I hate the way it sometimes treats offenders, pure internet bullying.

There are basic rules for how you talk about other people even if they did or said something really shitty.
Like in Etikas case, some people actually thought it was okey to ridicule his suicide message because he had posted racist tweets. Its insane.
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
I am not seeing what is wrong with that statement. Everything that was going on there was making it real hard to feel for him. But just cause I wasn't feeling for him at that place in time doesn't mean I think he deserved to die. It doesn't mean I thought with absolute certainty he wasn't capable of doing it, he kept refusing help which is what made it harder to care.

His Ex-GF got him in the hospital twice and he told them to not help them both times. Imagine how she felt knowing she tried her hardest to save him but he kept denying it.
Grow the hell up, stop dragging this shit out and take your L and go and do some research on the subject matter and better yourself instead of acting like a kid with frosting all over their face saying they didn't eat the cake. Stop making excuses for your poor choice of words and actions. That fucking post from earlier still pisses me off. No one fucking cares at the moment how upset you are he said bad shit the guy is dead.
 

Jar0d

Banned
Jun 11, 2019
47
As SweetNicole said, it's up to the community to make changes, not just the moderation.

The mods simply remind others of the site's rules. It's not up to them to steer the conversation in a more productive direction. It's up to the majority of people in the conversation i.e. the users.

Yet that same SweetNicole think it's a smart time to make weird statements about how this situation is barely a problem comparing to what Neogaf's owner did. Going as far as posting a gif to make fun on the people who disagree with the dumb take.

Grow the hell up, stop dragging this shit out and take your L and go and do some research on the subject matter and better yourself instead of acting like a kid with frosting all over their face saying they didn't eat the cake. Stop making excuses for your poor choice of words and actions. That fucking post from earlier still pisses me off. No one fucking cares at the moment how upset you are he said bad shit the guy is dead.

This. It pisses me off to no end too. I'm sure that was the intended purpose.
 

Deltoid

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
212
London, UK
User banned (Permanent): Inflammatory accusation, account in junior phase
the mods really hate people with mental health issues huh
I am not seeing what is wrong with that statement. Everything that was going on there was making it real hard to feel for him. But just cause I wasn't feeling for him at that place in time doesn't mean I think he deserved to die. It doesn't mean I thought with absolute certainty he wasn't capable of doing it, he kept refusing help which is what made it harder to care.

His Ex-GF got him in the hospital twice and he told them to not help them both times. Imagine how she felt knowing she tried her hardest to save him but he kept denying it.
absolutely pathetic
 

flare

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,306
I am not seeing what is wrong with that statement. Everything that was going on there was making it real hard to feel for him. But just cause I wasn't feeling for him at that place in time doesn't mean I think he deserved to die. It doesn't mean I thought with absolute certainty he wasn't capable of doing it, he kept refusing help which is what made it harder to care.

His Ex-GF got him in the hospital twice and he told them to not help them both times. Imagine how she felt knowing she tried her hardest to save him but he kept denying it.
I'd like to believe you're coming from a place of good but that's a gross misunderstanding of how mental illness works. It's incredibly difficult to open oneself up and talk about this. The societal stigma and pressures mixed with personal anxiety make it incredibly difficult for people to take the step to get help. Not to mention oftentimes people don't bother continuing at the first sign of improvement.
 

Zaubrer

Member
Oct 16, 2018
1,394
It's abhorrent reading some of the incomprehensibility regarding mental illnesses. That shit is turning people inside out and upside down, they are not recognizable sometimes.

Seriously, mental illnesses are no joke.
 
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awake4ages

Neo•Geo Saver
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,069
People had valid reasons to be skeptical of Etika and be frustrated with him. Look at the things he was saying. This situation isn't as simple as some are making it to be, these words are hurtful.

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It's tragic that this man who built up this channel and a lot of fans died in this manner as he didn't deserve to go out like this. However these words were definitely harmful and some people's frustrations were warranted I feel.

I am in no means trying to defend what he said in these tweets but I want to point out the very real possibility that he could have been intoxicated during these tweets, further separating him from reality, knowing his alcohol habits.

Regardless, now is not the time and I am done responding to anything else that is not the respect the man deserves, for he did a lot of good for a lot of people during his time on Earth. Etika will be sorely, sorely missed, and I am still incredibly sad to know that his burdens ended up far outweighing his passions.
 
Jun 17, 2019
397
I am not seeing what is wrong with that statement. Everything that was going on there was making it real hard to feel for him. But just cause I wasn't feeling for him at that place in time doesn't mean I think he deserved to die. It doesn't mean I thought with absolute certainty he wasn't capable of doing it, he kept refusing help which is what made it harder to care.

His Ex-GF got him in the hospital twice and he told them to not help them both times. Imagine how she felt knowing she tried her hardest to save him but he kept denying it.
That is a problem that you feel that way. "Because he refused help" is not a good reason to stop caring, because him refusing help like that is in itself a symptom of the mental illness.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
I didn't watch the last video before, but after watching it now it's really sobering.

He brings up social media and being edgy as factors that contributed to his depression, he seems really regretful at the things he'd said or done.

The saddest part was how he felt that showing actual emotion was weak, referring to almost crying as being like 'a bitch' and restraining himself from doing that even though it's clear he's bottling so much up inside.

He openly says he couldn't ask for help because he was too afraid, that the idea of appearing vulnerable is so frightening or against what has been ingrained in him that it's helped lead him into his current state.

It's probably true for a lot of people, young men especially, that they just do not look for help because they're taught to endure things alone.

Just really sad when he states the world would be better off without him, despite apologising so much to those that know and love him.
 

Deleted member 225

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,658
I am not seeing what is wrong with that statement. Everything that was going on there was making it real hard to feel for him. But just cause I wasn't feeling for him at that place in time doesn't mean I think he deserved to die. It doesn't mean I thought with absolute certainty he wasn't capable of doing it, he kept refusing help which is what made it harder to care.

His Ex-GF got him in the hospital twice and he told them to not help them both times. Imagine how she felt knowing she tried her hardest to save him but he kept denying it.
I'm going to try to be as nice as possible, but you really need to stop. Because you are coming off as very ignorant and self centered.
 

Deleted member 9857

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,977
R.I.P. :'( it's a tragedy he wasn't able to get the help he needed

I've been there... thank God I didn't succeed, it's just such an awful place to be mentally

Goddammit, man. He didn't deserve this- he was obviously in need of help when he was put under arrest. Fuck man.

If you feel you might be suicidal, and live in the United States, I urge you to call the Suicide Hotline at 800-273-8255 or navigate to http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ for a live chat and additional resources. If it's not an emergency, but you want to know more about mental health, the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) offers information on their website https://www.nami.org/ and a free HELPLINE 800-950-6264. If you do not live in the United States please seek out local resources. /r/SuicideWatch has a list that may cover your country: /r/SuicideWatch/wiki/hotlines Let me know if you need any other guidance to people who help.

quoting this because it can't be shared enough
 

aSqueakyLime

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,434
England
I remember first seeing Etika in some roosterteeth Let's Plays, then in his reaction videos, at the time I thought they were over the top but learned to appreciate them when I showed them to my girlfriend. My GF and I both have mental health problems, so watching his videos helped make our days better. When things started happening earlier this year, of course as a fan I was concerned. However as things escalated and then calmed down and things escalated again, I couldn't take it, it just burned me. Going through my own issues as well as trying to be there for my gf during the things she went through. Etika pulling those stunts burned my energy up. So when this latest thing happened, I didn't bother to post in the thread as I thought it was "just another Etika stunt". However things took a serious turn when he showed up missing. I started to take things more seriously and just hoped for the best. Not much more I can say on this as I just really hope his family and friends can get through this.

I feel you, I went through a similar mental process during this all. With the racist comments and the freaking out on stream, I was pretty annoyed/drained because it did feel like stunts, at least early on, but then I saw the pics of him getting carted off in an ambulance and it was kinda worrying and dawning on me that he seriously needed some help. Overall it's such a shitty/depressing situation to see him spiral down and end up like that. I hope his family manages to find peace and it's evident that he left a huge positive impact on people.
 
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Jadusable

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,020
User banned (permanent): Inflammatory community attacks, trolling, long history of community attacks and previous severe infractions.


He's going all in and it's well deserved IMO. Tells everyone all they need to know about the true nature of the majority of this community. Before today I assumed that these people made up a small portion of ERA, but now I'm honestly not sure anymore.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
RIP to the (very) young man and condolences to anyone reading this who knew him personally.

On the broader discussion, I'm always miffed by conversations blaming this and that on mental illness, mostly due to the catch-all ableist nature of that sort of rhetoric. It implies that mental illness is some sort of monolith and that any destructive behavior that goes against the norm can simply be reduced down to a catch phrase. The reality is that every person struggling with mental health issues has a unique experience which they handle in their own way while requiring a wide variety of support from their environment. It's always tempting to go "if only they do this" when someone is clearly having a hard time and I get it, it feels incredibly futile and the only way out of that feeling is to simplify the situation. Unfortunately, when someone is suicidal to the point of pushing everyone else away there is very little others can do. That's why it honestly pisses me off seeing people posting shit about people eating crow and "crying wolf" etc. Like yeah, no shit, some people probably feel really dumb for posting that right now. You know what else? Nothing they realistically could have done would have changed this situation for Desmond either.

I'm sorry if this comes across as rude or whatever, but this whole situation and this topic hits pretty close to home so you'll have to excuse me for airing some general frustrations about the topic at hand. Maybe this isn't the right place for it and I should have left it at my first paragraph, I dunno, but I really do think that discussions about mental health should go past "I told you so"s and into the nuances of how a community can help if any help is possible sooner rather than later.

Also fuck off to the people making this a thread about moderation or ERA's "reputation" or whatever. What the fuck is wrong with y'all?


Once again, RIP.

I mean, one of the biggest problems with mental health is that a lot of mental health disorders have built-in safeguards designed to prevent themselves from being addressed. Depression is a bastard, because it knows how to make you appear just lucid enough that a hospital that would want to help you can't help you because the law prevents them from holding a lucid patient against their will. I've literally seen it happen with my own brother - the kid needed real, long-term help, but he was able to feign lucidity long enough that the doctors had to release him and he was right back to spitting venom and threatening to kill the rest of my family within days. He walked out of rehab early no less than five separate times.

We talk so much about access to care, which is certainly important, but the thing a lot of us don't talk about is the fact that mental health issues are insidious and will do everything in their power to remain untreated, to re-establish a level of toxic normalcy that eats the sufferer away from the inside out even when they WANT to get help on some level.

How can we treat people who don't want to be helped? And how can we treat people who know they need help but their disorders make it possible for them to walk right out of a treatment center without addressing the underlying problems that got them in in the first place? Mental health is such a complicated beast and there seems to be no right way to handle it, no right way to talk about it. Every brain is different and every person needs to be handled differently, and I don't know if contemporary human society is equipped to DO that.

Well said. I think education about these sorts of facts is one of the most important parts of it, especially toward the people suffering. They might not even realize they are doing it until it's too late and the safeguards have become a way of life, but if identified in time by the person suffering they might be aware of how destructive that behavior is and seek help before they reach that point. It's just so frustrating that society is indeed ill-equipped for it. Not much profit to be made in treating human beings with the required level of care, I guess. ADHD clinics here in Sweden often have to select patients based on which have it bad enough to benefit from the help they can give but good enough to be able to participate as a working citizen with the help they receive. I mean, we have it pretty good over here and still have stuff like that get in the way of people getting the help they truly need. It's just scary honestly.
 
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Meelow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,195
What the fuck? I really didn't think this would happen, holy shit RIP, I am actually really shocked right now.

I really don't know what to say right now.
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
Yet that same SweetNicole think it's a smart time to make weird statements about how this situation is barely a problem comparing to what Neogaf's owner did. Going as far as posting a gif to make fun on the people who disagree with the dumb take.

They're entirely different situations. But more importantly, the GAF situation was never going to improve; there's still a chance for the moderation team on this site to reevaluate how they approach threads like this.
 

KanameYuuki

Member
Dec 23, 2017
2,650
Colombia
The worst part is that even if I barely knew about his content or persona, it was clearly obvious he was having a mental breakdown and some people instead of giving a helping hand decided to crucify him because they are fixated and believe everything is either good / bad, black / white, us / them.

Hopefully this is a message to take mental issues more seriously and lend a hand instead of being the one holding a pitchfork.

RIP Desmond, so young man.
 

Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
Because they refuse to host an discussion on how they responded and lack of response beforehand, to the point where it only makes matters worse, drawing outside attention.


Yeah this basically. This was only really 2(!) months ago, and for anyone who knew about him (esp those closest to him who have already said as such) concluding that this was part of a mental illness was not too unreasonable an assumption to make. Yet here we are now that the worst has come to pass and I can't get to the second page there without feeling totally sick to my stomach.