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Wingfan19

Layout Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
9,753
Bothell WA
www.nytimes.com

Managing Movie Superheroes Is About to Get a Lot More Complicated (Published 2020)

Walter Hamada, who runs DC Films, is overseeing a dizzying number of projects, part of a swarm of comics-based stories coming from Hollywood.

LOS ANGELES — Walter Hamada is not a typical superhero wrangler.

He doesn't have a booming, fanboy-in-chief personality. His modest home office, at least as it appears on Zoom, is light on the usual cape-and-cowl collectibles. Hollywood was not even his first calling: He set out to be a mechanical engineer.

As the president of DC Films, however, Mr. Hamada, 52, manages the movie careers of Wonder Woman, Batman, Cyborg, the Flash, Superman and every other DC Comics superhero. And the new course he has charted for them is dizzying.

The most expensive DC movies (up to four a year, starting in 2022) are designed for release in theaters, Mr. Hamada said. Additional superhero films (two annually is the goal, perhaps focused on riskier characters like Batgirl and Static Shock) will arrive exclusively on HBO Max, the fledgling streaming service owned by WarnerMedia.

It's not clear if the Batgirl/Static Shock movies are from an actual Hamada quote or just an inference from the NYT author, so don't jump to any conclusions yet.

To make all the story lines work, DC Films will introduce movie audiences to a comics concept known as the multiverse: parallel worlds where different versions of the same character exist simultaneously. Coming up, for instance, Warner Bros. will have two different film sagas involving Batman — played by two different actors — running at the same time.

Disney has succeeded in part because its divisions collaborate in a way that siloed Warner Bros. never has. But that is changing. AT&T mandated greater cross-company synergy when it took over WarnerMedia in 2018.

"In the past, we were so secretive," Mr. Hamada said. "It was shocking to me, for example, how few people at the company were actually allowed to read scripts for the movies we are making."

When Mr. Hamada arrived at DC Films in 2018, the division was in urgent need of stability.
Two terrifyingly expensive movies, "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice" (2016) and "Justice League" (2017), both directed by Zack Snyder, were deemed almost unwatchable by critics. Ben Affleck, who played Batman in the films, wanted to move on, complicating sequel plans. At the same time, filmmakers were developing other DC movies that had nothing to do with the existing story lines — and, in fact, contradicted some of them.
Mr. Hamada and Mr. Emmerich had two options: Figure out how to make the various story lines and character incarnations coexist or start over.
The answer is the multiverse. Boiled down, it means that some characters (Wonder Woman as portrayed by Ms. Gadot, for instance) will continue their adventures on Earth 1, while new incarnations (Mr. Pattinson as "The Batman") will populate Earth 2.
"The Flash," a film set for release in theaters in 2022, will link the two universes and feature two Batmans, with Mr. Affleck returning as one and Michael Keaton returning as the other. Mr. Keaton played Batman in 1989 and 1992.
To complicate matters further, HBO Max gave Mr. Snyder more than $70 million to recut his "Justice League" and expand it with new footage. Mr. Snyder and Warner Bros. had clashed over his original vision, which the studio deemed overly grim, resulting in reshoots handled by a different director, Joss Whedon. (That didn't go well, either.) "Zack Snyder's Justice League," now four hours long, will arrive in segments on HBO Max in March.
At least for now, Mr. Snyder is not part of the new DC Films blueprint, with studio executives describing his HBO Max project as a storytelling cul-de-sac — a street that leads nowhere.

So yes, it appears the Zack Justice League is the end.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
So yes, it appears the Zack Justice League is the end.

Unless it does well. Then it's gonna get even more confusing. This article sounds like a nightmare. They want to copy marvel so bad, without doing the groundwork that made marvel successful.

I don't get why they don't understand this. Plan your shared universe. Do the solo movies, then start the team ups and crossovers once people invest in the characters.
 

Penguin

The Mushroom Kingdom Knight
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,218
New York
Unless it does well. Then it's gonna get even more confusing. This article sounds like a nightmare. They want to copy marvel so bad, without doing the groundwork that made marvel successful.

Literally the article argues differently though?

They are going to do what they want without necessarily worrying about a connective tissue.
 
OP
OP
Wingfan19

Wingfan19

Layout Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
9,753
Bothell WA
Unless it does well. Then it's gonna get even more confusing. This article sounds like a nightmare. They want to copy marvel so bad, without doing the groundwork that made marvel successful.
But, they are doing the leg work now. Silo'd movies of characters with very little crossovers or cameos. There is no plans for another Justice League or other team up movie in the next 3-4 years.
 

darkhunger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,270
USA
Unless it does well. Then it's gonna get even more confusing. This article sounds like a nightmare. They want to copy marvel so bad, without doing the groundwork that made marvel successful.
It's not like Marvel isn't also going the alternate universe and multiple versions of the same character routes though... And DCEU is what it is, they aren't going to start fresh with it since they are 3/4 of a decade into it.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
But, they are doing the leg work now. Silo'd movies of characters with very little crossovers or cameos. There is no plans for another Justice League or other team up movie in the next 3-4 years.

Throwing two or three versions of the same character on screen in different films and having crossovers within movies like Flash doesn't really seem siloed off to me.

It's not like Marvel isn't also going the alternate universe and multiple versions of the same character routes though... And DCEU is what it is, they aren't going to start fresh with it since they are 3/4 of a decade into it.

They took 12 years and 20+ movies to get there. It's a little different.
 

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877
Put them all on HBO Max fuck having to go to theaters, give me the damn option to enjoy a film as I please
 

pechorin

Banned
Apr 13, 2020
2,572
I like going to the cinema but the amount of movies I'm willing to go see in the theatres decreases every year. No matter how many subjective criticisms you have against consuming movies on alternative platforms like streaming, still that's where things seem to be going. It reminds me a lot of how TV died slowly over the years, it's time to just accept reality. The smart studios will get ahead of the curve.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,277
There is still no real quality control at DC comics at a script level for live movies, as evidenced by Birds of Prey and Wonder Woman 84, so whatever their "plans" are, its gonna completely fall apart if they continue to release bad to mediocre movies.

We'll see how Suicide Squad (reboot), Shazam 2, The Batman, and Flash do but the track record isn't great so far. I think most people liked Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Shazam but they seem to be back in a funk again.
 

That1GoodHunter

My ass legally belongs to Ted Price
Member
Oct 17, 2019
10,863
And every seventh one will be a Flashpoint film to wipe the slate clean of all of the racists, domestic abusers, and assaulters in their extended cast 🥳
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
There is still no real quality control at DC comics at a script level for live movies, as evidenced by Birds of Prey and Wonder Woman 84, so whatever their "plans" are, its gonna completely fall apart if they continue to release bad to mediocre movies.

We'll see how Suicide Squad (reboot), Shazam 2, The Batman, and Flash do but the track record isn't great so far. I think most people liked Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Shazam but they seem to be back in a funk again.

Agreed. That, and the fact that the foundation of all this is trash. The corrupted roots will inevitably kill the tree even if a few flowers sprout upon the way.
 

JetmanJay

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,504
Sooo - are there only 2 Earths? Does that mean that Pattinson Batman has to also exist on one of those two earths as well?
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
Given the poor reception (Critical and financial) to their two DC movies this year...
They should go back to rethink their strategy.
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
Birds of Prey had great critical reception, though. I'd love more movies like that one.
But it didn't resonate with audiences at all, it underperformed heavily at the BO and never found one at streaming; I doubt Hamada's big plan is serving niche films with DC's most popular characters (Snyder's Cut notwithstanding)
 

PlayBee

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 8, 2017
5,541
It's funny that they have to introduce the multiverse because people are too accustomed to a shared universe
 

Boxy Brown

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,503
But it didn't resonate with audiences at all, it underperformed heavily at the BO and never found one at streaming; I doubt Hamada's big plan is serving niche films with DC's most popular characters (Snyder's Cut notwithstanding)
How do you know it didn't find an audience in streaming. And if they're willing to send 2 DC movies straight to streaming, that would also suggest otherwise.
 

Meg Cherry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,279
Seattle, WA
Put them all on HBO Max fuck having to go to theaters, give me the damn option to enjoy a film as I please
The best you're realistically going to get is the option to rent it for $30 during the theatrical run (maybe a few weeks after release, if it's showing good legs).

The Max plan just isn't sustainable for the sort of $200M movies WB clearly intends to keep making.
 

Johnny Blaze

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
4,166
DE
How do you know it didn't find an audience in streaming. And if they're willing to send 2 DC movies straight to streaming, that would also suggest otherwise.
It suggests the usual with DC, throw lots of random things at the wall and see what sticks, the rest goes to the bin.

They haven't learned a thing from the Snyder debacle.

Boiled down, it means that some characters (Wonder Woman as portrayed by Ms. Gadot, for instance) will continue their adventures on Earth 1, while new incarnations (Mr. Pattinson as "The Batman") will populate Earth 2.
"The Flash," a film set for release in theaters in 2022, will link the two universes and feature two Batmans, with Mr. Affleck returning as one and Michael Keaton returning as the other. Mr. Keaton played Batman in 1989 and 1992.
Wait, what?

But that's two earths and three Batman's? 😂
 

Deleted member 10612

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,774
Unless it does well. Then it's gonna get even more confusing. This article sounds like a nightmare. They want to copy marvel so bad, without doing the groundwork that made marvel successful.

I don't get why they don't understand this. Plan your shared universe. Do the solo movies, then start the team ups and crossovers once people invest in the characters.
No one needs origin stoy films about any of these characters, they just need good movies.

Marvel for a long time was trapped in origin movies because they feared audiences would be bamboozled by what's happening on screen If they did random comic book stuff, then GotG happend and they knew they can, like the animated versions, do whatever the fuck they want.

I can watch and enjoy the animated JL movies just fine, and I have never read a single DC comic.

Give us JL movies, send the characters to missions contained in series or single movies... make it big, universe altering stuff. Now, not in ten years.
 

Jeffapp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,248
These articles come out like clockwork after every dc movie and it just proves they have no clue what they are doing. No one is reading the scripts or producing these movies with any concern for the character. The articles says this guy has a couple items in his room but you would think Geoff Johns would be that person but really hasn't.
they are trying to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. The idea of batgirl, Batman beyond or static movie has been their fucking tease for the last 15 years but they keep going back to what's easy. Justice league failed so let's release it a third time.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
Literally the article argues differently though?

They are going to do what they want without necessarily worrying about a connective tissue.
They want connective tissue, that's why they are making the multiverse explicit and tying it all together with The Flash's movie.

They want to have their cake and eat it too. If a movie like The Suicide Squad does well, it's part of Earth 1. If it doesn't, it's in Earth 2 and they start over with Earth 3 or go back to David Ayer's vision and give it another shot.
 

Temp_User

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,702
I would always say that before you go nuts with multiversal continuity, there has to be a stable continuity first to branch-off or at least be used as a reference point. Otherwise, it's going to be a confusing, hot, mess for both newbs and vets alike.

Arrow-verse(Arrow, Flash and LoT) was the 'main' continuity for tv . . . . is it still Snyder-verse for movies?
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,039
I would always say that before you go nuts with multiversal continuity, there has to be a stable continuity first to branch-off or at least be used as a reference point. Otherwise, it's going to be a confusing, hot, mess for both newbs and vets alike.

Arrow-verse(Arrow, Flash and LoT) was the 'main' continuity for tv . . . . is it still Snyder-verse for movies?
The Snydverse turned out to be a part of the Arrowverse. Literally everything live action dc wise is connected to Arrow now (except the Nolan films possibly).
 

Temp_User

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,702
The Snydverse turned out to be a part of the Arrowverse. Literally everything live action dc wise is connected to Arrow now (except the Nolan films possibly).

That's actually a good idea using the better planned, better setup DC TV continuity as the reference point even for movies. I have no qualms using Arrow-verse as Earth 1.
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,962
Edit:

I don't really have a lot of confidence in this guy.
 
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Timbuktu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,234
It always feel like they are jumping a few steps to get to where disney and MCU is. Bringing in a multiverse seems like a lazy way to deal with their existing mess that will probably makes things even more convoluted.

Also, "breaking down silos" and "synergy" mandated by AT&T sounds like horribly cliche management speak.
 

King Kingo

Banned
Dec 3, 2019
7,656
Also, "breaking down silos" and "synergy" mandated by AT&T sounds like horribly cliche management speak.

Not really, they're only saying this because before the AT&T acquisition, HBO, Warner Bros and Turner operated seperately with the exception of Warner Bros licensing their DC animated programming to Turner. Now, they all directly collaborate with each other.
 

Heraldic

Prophet of Regret
The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,633
Negative. I want all of them on HBOMax, or no dice. Thanks to covid and the avant-garde of streaming major theatrical release, straight to tv, and espically the poor quality of said releases, I am now done with the movie theater. It's a relic of the past. Get with it mr. Hamada, and you too director Dennis villanueva. I respect you, but Get over it!
 

Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,453
So glad the cinematic universe stink isn't going to touch the Pattinson batman movies. I think the Reeves trilogy could top the Nolan ones potentially and also perhaps have the GOAT comic movie in there too.

I will see what other dceu projects interest me but like marvel I think I'll be skipping the ones that don't if they kick it into gear like this.
 

Christian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,636
tenor.gif
 

JayCB64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,989
Wales
'A street that goes nowhere' is arguably the most perfect definition of Snyder's arc I've ever heard lmao
 

Iacomus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
803
Don't the films have to be good to have this sort of mentalilty?

Not a Marvel fanboy, I like DC films but their has to be a consistent quality to them.
 

Krauser Kat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,701
Throwing two or three versions of the same character on screen in different films and having crossovers within movies like Flash doesn't really seem siloed off to me.



They took 12 years and 20+ movies to get there. It's a little different.
Also Iron man, Thor, Captn and Avengers were all bangers and better than any of the current dc fair.

They didnt stumble until iron man and thor 2.
 

brochiller

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,191
'A street that goes nowhere' is arguably the most perfect definition of Snyder's arc I've ever heard lmao

Yeah, I am actually looking forward to seeing Snyder's JL, but I'm also looking forward to it being his last DC movie, at least for a while. I want to see what others can do with these characters.
 

Bane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,905
I'd be totally fine with JL being the cap on this DCEU and Flashpoint reworking it all but I don't think that's happening. They'll keep the ones that work around and redo the rest. It's the film version of the New 52.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,157
Gentrified Brooklyn
I don't think the multiverse concept is as confusing as they make it sound. People want -good- movies and escapist fare...it's not as if people were confused with 'The Joker's' take on the universe. So hopefully the use in The Flash is in service of the wider story as opposed to 'Hey, lets use this to kick off our next gen of movies'

Going back to The Joker (which I didn't like, but I respect the artistry that went into it) ultimately the key for DC is balancing out good superhero movies that stand on their own that can go straight to theater...and solid shows that don't need those kind of budgets. The irony is that of the big two DC got this early with their Vertigo line...the stories are there as long as they aren't trying to out Marvel, Marvel. That ship has sailed, and honestly who wants that ship anyway outside of suits who want cross promotion opportunities. Even in the comics themselves crossovers are more hisses than hits, give us good stories first.