NY Times - Notre-Dame fire was even more a disaster than people know

Vanillalite · Jul 19, 2019

NY Times

The security employee monitoring the smoke alarm panel at Notre-Dame cathedral was just three days on the job when the red warning light flashed on the evening of April 15: "Feu." Fire.

It was 6:18 on a Monday, the week before Easter. The Rev. Jean-Pierre Caveau was celebrating Mass before hundreds of worshipers and visitors, and the employee radioed a church guard who was standing just a few feet from the altar.

Go check for fire, the guard was told. He did and found nothing.

It took nearly 30 minutes before they realized their mistake: The guard had gone to the wrong building. The fire was in the attic of the cathedral, the famed latticework of ancient timbers known as "the forest."

Deleted member 32822 · Jul 19, 2019

The web design on that article is really cool!

Pancracio17 · Jul 19, 2019

Youd think "the forest" would be the most obvious place to check for fires. What an unfortunate mistake.

Mesoian · Jul 19, 2019

I'm expecting those monetary pledges from the 1% to come in any day now.

ANNNNNY day now.

Deleted member 1086 · Jul 19, 2019

guess that guard got canned

Freedom = $1.05 · Jul 19, 2019

Dishwalla said:
guess that guard got canned

Given the circumstances I'd say they got fired

IggyChooChoo · Jul 19, 2019

As far as the restoration goes, this is a good piece about how, despite their extravagant promises to rebuild, how little money the billionaires have actually given:
The lesson from the ruins of Notre Dame: don't rely on billionaires

At the time of the fire near the Seine, you could barely move for expressions of cashmere-clad concern. Take the family and foundation behind L'Oréal, who at the time declared how "touched" they were "by this drama that unites beyond cultures and beliefs [and] intend to take part in the collective effort and talents needed to meet this immense challenge, which touches the heart of our country". As of mid-June, they had handed over a big fat zero. The same goes for oil giant Total.
"It is more blessed to give than to receive," said Jesus. To which anyone surveying the Notre Dame debacle might advise the son of God to get a better brand manager. Because the billionaires who promised those vast sums have received all the credit while not giving more than a fraction of the money.
They have banked the publicity, while dreaming up small print that didn't exist in the spring. As another charity executive, Célia Vérot, said: "It's a voluntary donation,so the companies are waiting for the government's vision to see what precisely they want to fund." It's as if the vast project of rebuilding a 12th-century masterpiece was a breakfast buffet from which one could pick and choose.

As the saying goes: every billionaire is a policy failure.

Garlador · Jul 19, 2019

Pancracio17 said:
Youd think "the forest" would be the most obvious place to check for fires. What an unfortunate mistake.

I'm still shocked that this happened... and less shocked that all those billionaire promises to open their pockets to help rebuild haven't amounted to much.

Oh Hi Mark · Jul 19, 2019

Garlador said:
I'm still shocked that this happened... and less shocked that all those billionaire promises to open their pockets to help rebuild haven't amounted to much.

They want some solid plans before they spend their money which is reasonable.

Evildeadhead · Jul 19, 2019

Fuck risking lives to save a building, whatever that building may be. People - yes. Stone and wood configured in a pretty way - no.

Charcoal · Jul 19, 2019

Sega Dreamcast said:
The web design on that article is really cool!

Agreed.

Deleted member 41520 · Jul 19, 2019

Three days on the job

Fuck that's traumatic

Teh_Lurv · Jul 19, 2019

Jiminy said:
Three days on the job

Fuck that's traumatic

At least the guard has an excuse.

Banderdash · Jul 19, 2019

What a great article... thanks OP.

What a bravebunch of bastards those fire fighters were.

Hollywood Duo · Jul 19, 2019

I don't think that is as big of a mistake as it appears. If the guard was next to the altar, getting up to the attic is quite the journey. Hell the base level of the church itself is huge.

Geoff · Jul 19, 2019

Sega Dreamcast said:
The web design on that article is really cool!

Yeah but the writing is terrible. The section quoted in the OP is just shit.

UCBooties · Jul 19, 2019

IggyChooChoo said:
As far as the restoration goes, this is a good piece about how, despite their extravagant promises to rebuild, how little money the billionaires have actually given:
The lesson from the ruins of Notre Dame: don't rely on billionaires

As the saying goes: every billionaire is a policy failure.

I am very surprised by this shocking and completely unexpected information.

Do I really need the /s?

Thanks for sharing. This is an interesting read.

Shodan14 · Jul 19, 2019

Mesoian said:
I'm expecting those monetary pledges from the 1% to come in any day now.

ANNNNNY day now.

Weren't they just waiting for the government to have a clear costed plan for the restauration?

Deleted member 41520 · Jul 19, 2019

Teh_Lurv said:
At least the guard has an excuse.

"es me dies tercero!"

BringBackSonics · Jul 19, 2019

Vanillalite said:
NY Times

The security employee monitoring the smoke alarm panel at Notre-Dame cathedral was just three days on the job when the red warning light flashed on the evening of April 15: "Feu." Fire.

It was 6:18 on a Monday, the week before Easter. The Rev. Jean-Pierre Caveau was celebrating Mass before hundreds of worshipers and visitors, and the employee radioed a church guard who was standing just a few feet from the altar.

Go check for fire, the guard was told. He did and found nothing.

It took nearly 30 minutes before they realized their mistake: The guard had gone to the wrong building. The fire was in the attic of the cathedral, the famed latticework of ancient timbers known as "the forest."

That was an amazing investigative report from the Times. Chudinski and Lemaire are straight up national heroes.

Deleted member 49179 · Jul 19, 2019

This is crazy:

Orbit · Jul 19, 2019

nobody died, so who cares. it's hard to really mourn for just property being destroyed when lives were lost in the kyoto animation fire. not saying i don't understand the sorrow around this fire but i feel like the fact no lives were lost just makes me not care. millionaires pledging millions, billionaires pledging more than millions, when the poor and down trodden could use that money a lot more.

Deleted member 49179 · Jul 19, 2019

Orbit said:
nobody died, so who cares. it's hard to really mourn for just property being destroyed when lives were lost in the kyoto animation fire. not saying i don't understand the sorrow around this fire but i feel like the fact no lives were lost just makes me not care. millionaires pledging millions, billionaires pledging more than millions, when the poor and down trodden could use that money a lot more.

The perspective is that it was a landmark of humanity's culture and history. And now, no matter the amount of money pledged to its reconstruction, it will never be the same as before. What it was is forever lost.

Davidion · Jul 19, 2019

The fire warning system at Notre-Dame took dozens of experts six years to put together, and in the end involved thousands of pages of diagrams, maps, spreadsheets and contracts, according to archival documents found in a suburban Paris library by The Times.

The result was a system so arcane that when it was called upon to do the one thing that mattered — warn "fire!" and say where — it produced instead a nearly indecipherable message.

It made a calamity almost inevitable, fire experts consulted by The Times said.

As a user experience designer, every incident like this and the 737 Max makes me want to tear my hair out, if I had any.

The utter incompetence of sold "expertise" and business/management authority costs so much.

Pandora012 · Jul 19, 2019

Aren't alot of donations toward Notre Dame from Americans? Like even before the fire.

But man. That guard must feel horrible.

Hogger · Jul 19, 2019

Shodan14 said:
Weren't they just waiting for the government to have a clear costed plan for the restauration?

But people can't get outraged at that!

MasterOfPastures · Jul 19, 2019

Orbit said:
nobody died, so who cares. it's hard to really mourn for just property being destroyed when lives were lost in the kyoto animation fire. not saying i don't understand the sorrow around this fire but i feel like the fact no lives were lost just makes me not care. millionaires pledging millions, billionaires pledging more than millions, when the poor and down trodden could use that money a lot more.

Let's not indulge into our baser selves, but a historical landmark that has stood before the world even knew what electricity was, rates far higher than some cement box that made cartoons for children.

Verelios · Jul 19, 2019

MasterOfPastures said:
Let's not indulge into our baser selves, but a historical landmark that has stood before the world even knew what electricity was, rates far higher than some cement box that made cartoons for children.

I'd say human lives always rate higher myself.

MasterOfPastures · Jul 19, 2019

Verelios said:
I'd say human lives always rate higher myself.

Nah, fam. I won't dance on their blood but, my heart beats cold for them. And that is all I am going to say. It's bad form to speak ill of the dead.

Deleted member 21709 · Jul 19, 2019

MasterOfPastures said:
Let's not indulge into our baser selves, but a historical landmark that has stood before the world even knew what electricity was, rates far higher than some cement box that made cartoons for children.

What the fuck? You should get permabanned for this shit. Have a report.

MasterOfPastures · Jul 19, 2019

Ingueferroque said:
What the fuck? You should get permabanned for this shit. Have a report.

For not caring about the Kyoto fire? Like Notre Damme, it's a tragedy, but I find no personal reason to care for it.

AegonSnake · Jul 19, 2019

MasterOfPastures said:
Nah, fam. I won't dance on their blood but, my heart beats cold for them. And that is all I am going to say. It's bad form to speak ill of the dead.

the fuck is the matter with you? 30 people died and you are shitting on them.

what an absolutely insane few posts. i am done with OT for today. i cant.

Mcfrank · Jul 19, 2019

MasterOfPastures said:
For not caring about the Kyoto fire? Like Notre Damme, it's a tragedy, but I find no personal reason to care for it.

Holy fuck dude.

Kinthey · Jul 19, 2019

MasterOfPastures said:
For not caring about the Kyoto fire? Like Notre Damme, it's a tragedy, but I find no personal reason to care for it.

It sounds like you do more than not care if you had to mention that it's bad form to speak ill of the dead.

Deleted member 21709 · Jul 19, 2019

MasterOfPastures said:
For not caring about the Kyoto fire? Like Notre Damme, it's a tragedy, but I find no personal reason to care for it.

you fucking sociopath. 30 people died

VectorPrime · Jul 19, 2019

Orbit said:
nobody died, so who cares. it's hard to really mourn for just property being destroyed when lives were lost in the kyoto animation fire. not saying i don't understand the sorrow around this fire but i feel like the fact no lives were lost just makes me not care. millionaires pledging millions, billionaires pledging more than millions, when the poor and down trodden could use that money a lot more.

I forgot we're only allowed to feel bad for one thing at any one time.

Deleted member 49179 · Jul 19, 2019

I don't understand this "human lives VS. historical landmark" debate. I believe somebody can be sad after both tragedies for different reasons. Of course catastrophes that cost human lives are inherently disastrous and devastating, but it doesn't mean you're not also allowed be sad at the irreparable lost of a 850+ years old historical location that was a humanity landmark.

Edit:

VectorPrime said:
I forgot we're only allowed to feel bad for one thing at any one time.

Beat me to it!

thecouncil · Jul 19, 2019

Static_Void said:
The perspective is that it was a landmark of humanity's culture and history. And now, no matter the amount of money pledged to its reconstruction, it will never be the same as before. What it was is forever lost.

if they build it back to the way it was, in 100 years, nobody's gonna know the difference. or care.

MasterOfPastures said:
Let's not indulge into our baser selves, but a historical landmark that has stood before the world even knew what electricity was, rates far higher than some cement box that made cartoons for children.

a LOT of people died in that cement box.

steviestar3 · Jul 19, 2019

MasterOfPastures said:
Nah, fam. I won't dance on their blood but, my heart beats cold for them. And that is all I am going to say. It's bad form to speak ill of the dead.

What's with all the casual sociopathy on etcetera lately?

Sign My Guestbook! · Jul 19, 2019

MasterOfPastures said:
Nah, fam. I won't dance on their blood but, my heart beats cold for them. And that is all I am going to say. It's bad form to speak ill of the dead.

Yeah, pretty sure you already did.

Shodan14 · Jul 19, 2019

Hogger said:
But people can't get outraged at that!

Good point.

RailWays · Jul 19, 2019

MasterOfPastures said:
For not caring about the Kyoto fire? Like Notre Damme, it's a tragedy, but I find no personal reason to care for it.

Are you serious?
Edit: oh they're banned.
Anyway, really cool illustrations of the event timeline in this article.

BadWeddingSpeech · Jul 19, 2019

Evildeadhead said:
Fuck risking lives to save a building, whatever that building may be. People - yes. Stone and wood configured in a pretty way - no.

Those firefighters chose to believe in something greater than themselves. Notre Dame is the cultural heartbeat of the Paris and arguably all of France and a symbol to many across multiple nations.

Your comment cheapens what they did and why they did it. While I can't think of a building (and symbol) Id risk my life for (and in a way I agree with you), what those men did does not make them dumb or stupid, but heroic.

Deleted member 721 · Jul 19, 2019

IggyChooChoo said:
As far as the restoration goes, this is a good piece about how, despite their extravagant promises to rebuild, how little money the billionaires have actually given:
The lesson from the ruins of Notre Dame: don't rely on billionaires

As the saying goes: every billionaire is a policy failure.

Shit fucking scum those people

Deleted member 57378 · Jul 19, 2019

AegonSnake said:
the fuck is the matter with you? 30 people died and you are shitting on them.

what an absolutely insane few posts. i am done with OT for today. i cant.

Yup im out too. Thats some cold shit.

Deleted member 49179 · Jul 19, 2019

thecouncil said:
if they build it back to the way it was, in 100 years, nobody's gonna know the difference. or care.

But that's the thing: they most likely cannot build it back to the way it was. Not realistically anyway. It's a question of time, building materials, but also expertise.

"The real question is whether we will react quickly with a rapid restoration to build something that looks on the surface like the cathedral before the fire? Will we use recent technology or will we rebuild the wooden roof?" asked Wilmart. "In Reims, Nantes or the Brittany parliament, 20th-century materials were used. But if we rebuild in wood, we will need specialists and ten to fifteen years. It will have to be oak, and we don't have that quantity of oak in reserve. We could cut down trees, but they would need to dry for several years before the construction could begin."

Bertrand de Feydeau, vice-president of the Fondation du Patrimoine which protects France's cultural heritage, told France Info radio the restoration work will have to use new technology to rebuild the roof. He said that France no longer has trees of the size that were harvested from primeval forests in the 12th and 13th centuries.

https://www.france24.com/en/2019041...storation-realistic-macron-rebuild-five-years

Orbit · Jul 19, 2019

MasterOfPastures said:
Let's not indulge into our baser selves, but a historical landmark that has stood before the world even knew what electricity was, rates far higher than some cement box that made cartoons for children.

MasterOfPastures said:
Nah, fam. I won't dance on their blood but, my heart beats cold for them. And that is all I am going to say. It's bad form to speak ill of the dead.

MasterOfPastures said:
For not caring about the Kyoto fire? Like Notre Damme, it's a tragedy, but I find no personal reason to care for it.

MasterofPastures I have no words...i assume you are trolling.

VectorPrime said:
I forgot we're only allowed to feel bad for one thing at any one time.

i'm guessing you read my post as "notre dame doesn't matter anymore, new fire matters now". my post may have been a little too broad, so no hate for your reply. i'm just saying it is hard to care about notre dame at the moment since no lives were even lost in the fire. i am just bitter at the rich making 'donations' like they are good people to keep up what amounts to just a building when compared to other causes they could've donated those millions to. i'm not trying to judge people how people spend their money but it does make me feel a little ill.

thecouncil · Jul 19, 2019

Static_Void said:
But that's the thing: they most likely cannot build it back to the way it was. Not realistically anyway. It's a question of time, building materials, but also expertise.

https://www.france24.com/en/2019041...storation-realistic-macron-rebuild-five-years

Interesting.

Deleted member 48897 · Jul 19, 2019

Eylos said:
Shit fucking scum those people

How dare you tarnish the good name of financially successful people who made their fortune, uh let's see here what was it again, ah, right, addicting poor people in rural communities to narcotics

IDreamOfHime · Jul 19, 2019

That awkward feeling in his next job interview when the other guy is reading his resume.

NY Times - Notre-Dame fire was even more a disaster than people know

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