NX Gamer: Xbox Showcase Reveal Event Review and Technical Analysis

[LavaBadger]

What exactly did some people think was some bad about this video? That brief "Craig" thing at the beginning? Was that it?

As for the rest of it, seeing this as some kind of "callout" is a stretch at best. The lighting has obvious problems, and this analysis states as much. They simply feel there are a lot of other fundamental problems that need to be addressed that light isn't going to solve. It's a response to MS saying that raytracing will be coming later.

People trying to generate a conflict where there isn't one.

 

[Equanimity]

NXGamer I'd love to see an entire video dedicated to Infinite, what's wrong and how they can potentially improve it.

In making my video on this game I thought I would explain something that I thought had the largest effect on the game's visual presentation in the gameplay trailer and how I kept reading people saying "this looks flat". Taking that as an opportunity to make an educational video about the differences between static and dynamic lighting as well as how modern PBR work flows interact with them. But yeah, whatever. This forum...

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Your Infinite analysis is really good.

 

[NunezL]

No, I haven't followed it - and that's the point. I watched the DF video, enjoyed it, but didn't post about it. Other people will grab whatever they can, particularly when it comes to platform wars - and that is not a problem exclusive to Era. I don't know what the solution is, but I'd suggest reporting the hell out of said posts. And if it's a significant issue, maybe we need a dedicated thread or discussion with the admin team. As a starting point, it seems like we can at least agree that Dictator shouldn't be tagged constantly. I also noticed the same thing happening to Stinkles early into the Halo reveal situation. Not sure what the point of that behavior is, but maybe something worth discussing.

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I agree with all your points here, but being attacked by many people in the span of a few days 100% gives Dictator the right to think that "this forum sucks", and that it's not just a few bad apples. You just need a fraction of trolls/consoles warriors attacking you to completly sour an experience, and that's definitely the case here.

 

[Deleted member 19767]

You are right, just a lot of users here posting this unfortunately giving that appearance :( - have felt a bit overwhelmed with the (from my perspective) total lack of understanding about the content this past weekend ... also the ever present tagging and negativity read here, on yt, reddit, twitter. Bless you for this perspective.

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The tagging is definitely an issue. Not sure what the solution is, but worth a bigger discussion I feel - because it no doubt affects a number of prominent users.

As for the negativity and accusations on bias - I think they're probably signs you're doing the right thing. If the worst people can come up with is some manufactured controversy on whether you lean towards platform A or platform B (or somehow both when you aggregate the posts) - then you must be doing okay.

 

[platocplx]

As for the negativity and accusations on bias - I think they're probably signs you're doing the right thing. If the worst people can come up with is some manufactured controversy on whether you lean towards platform A or platform B (or somehow both when you aggregate the posts) - then you must be doing okay.

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Yeah it's more just people are extremely polarized in their views at times, we all fall Into it to some extent. Being objective seems very hard for people these days, even when someone pokes fun others are quick to just go on attack mode for their plastic box. When like for example objectively someone could say definitely this games showcase wasnt the best showing with the turnpike game really setting the tone for the whole show case.

 

[sleepr]

This is why this forum is losing some of the most valuable members to people driving agendas while nothing happens, I've made a thread about this as I'm seeing this forum collapsing and it makes me sad since I do love to read all the discussions that are becoming rare these days.

Hope you and the team at DF don't take this forum seriously and continue to make awesome videos.

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More embarrassing is that no action is taken against it.

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We could start by not making comments like this:

Doesn't give views.

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[Deleted member 10847]

We could start by not making comments like this:

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I do have to agree with you on this one.

 

[Hey Please]

Okay. Having watched the video, aside from the pointers alluded by NXG (as well as DF) regarding HI, his takeaway that at this point we cannot even be sure how many of titles shown so far in an XSX presser was running on PC (supposedly built to mimic XSX's specs) and the presence of CGI trailers (all in all lack of gameplay aside from HI) are the lines of thoughts that resonate with me.

I cannot recall where I heard it (might have been DF), but statement this was a show about GP where the upcoming games, (subtext- whatever they are, i.e. cross-gen and whatever HW they are being demoed on atm) will play best on XSX was on point. This lack of blurring the lines between HW power disparity for the sake of a software platform (GP) is all good but it has its drawbacks.

NXGamer If you have the time and resources, it would be wonderful to see a Halo Infinite centric vid detailing your recommendations as solutions to apparent issues atm, albeit it will be an academic endeavour since certain aspects of the title are now set well in stone (like art aesthetic).

 

[LavaBadger]

One thing is for certain, attitudes around consoles are worse than they've ever been around here.

I would never have thought there was some veiled console loyalty on display from DF (Watched both their MS event overview and the Halo lighting video). I would never have thought this video was trying to drum up some kind of controversy.

People are looking for fights and everything has gotten way less civil. People are so wrapped up in their brand loyalties. It's disgusting and frustrating.

I saw this stuff go down during the the last era shift, and I don't know. Maybe I forgot how bad it gets. But it sure as hell has me rethinking whether I want to spend time in any thread when it seems like half of them are just people making disingenuous arguments. So frustrating. I totally see where Dictator's irritation comes from.

And folks can claim this is "a few bad apples", but I've used the Ignore feature on so many users the last couple months. It's interwoven into conversation at a level you can't simply ignore.

 

[Kyra]

This place has some serious problems and it's past time that they need to be addressed.

 

[Deleted member 4761]

What a bad video, again.
Every Xbox related video from NXGamer comes with console war bullshit.

 

[sleepr]

What a bad video, again.
Every Xbox related video from NXGamer comes with console war bullshit.

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That's your view because of your own bias.

He's not console warring in any way.

 

[Welfare]

The DF video was incredibly easy to understand what the main topic was and how it was explained. Lighting in the demo is a major problem and that is what the video was about. It showed exactly what I had an issue with regarding the demo and provided plenty of examples of the tech around current gen lighting and what could be expected from ray tracing.

This NX video went over a lot of different aspects but did not go in depth on the lighting techniques as DF did. Two completely different videos with two different objectives.

 

[andresmoros]

After watching Dictator 's video on Halo, I was actually very surprised on the reaction that people took. I am sorry, Alex, I am mostly a Sony/Nintendo dude with an open mind on Xbox, and I thought your video was fair and addressed why it looked flat: the lighting. It didn't feel apologetic nor my takeaway was that RT would solve anything. I remembered the other things you mentioned as well. I feel like NXgamer here went over all of the problema and just not the lighting. Both of you guys were right in my eyes and I don't feel like any of you were wrong or harsh or apologetic at all. Just my take.

 

[LavaBadger]

And there you have it, yet another user to throw on the Ignore list. It never ends.

What a bad video, again.
Every Xbox related video from NXGamer comes with console war bullshit.

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[jelly]

Everwild does look so good, technical chops are top stuff, honestly looks like an animated film at points and the designs are amazing for the creatures and world, so alive. Hope whatever Rare come up with in the game play department is fun.

 

[FireCloud]

If what the DF analysis said is true, that the game may be pushing the graphics processor with 4K60 then I can get what NXGamer is saying about ray tracing not helping. Ray tracing is going to add additional load on top of everything else going on. 343 will want to maintain 60 fps, I think. So adding ray tracing and whatever other features, higher definition textures, post processing effects, better blur, etc is going to mean the resolution would take a big hit.

 

[Deleted member 57361]

What a bad video, again.
Every Xbox related video from NXGamer comes with console war bullshit.

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If you don't have anything meaningful to add to the conversation, go back to your OT to read things you wanna read.

 

[platocplx]

The DF video was incredibly easy to understand what the main topic was and how it was explained. Lighting in the demo is a major problem and that is what the video was about. It showed exactly what I had an issue with regarding the demo and provided plenty of examples of the tech around current gen lighting and what could be expected from ray tracing.

This NX video went over a lot of different aspects but did not go in depth on the lighting techniques as DF did. Two completely different videos with two different objectives.

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Exactly. Lmao. I don't know how the hell people conflate this shit other than their own biases and wanting to have confirmation bias on things for them to make them feel better about what was shown.

 

[Rover_]

What a bad video, again.
Every Xbox related video from NXGamer comes with console war bullshit.

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you want PR, not analysis. you are the one doing console war here.

 

[Rat King]

What a bad video, again.
Every Xbox related video from NXGamer comes with console war bullshit.

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We need more users like you with insightful takes, constructive criticism, no console war bs, shilling or astroturfing.

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[Ocarina_117]

The discourse here is hugely tiring leading up to the new generation.

Thinly veiled console warring in every thread.

The "next gen memes" thread was pretty much just console wars in 90% of the posts. Hosting a thread like that causes the fanboyism to spill over into other threads.

 

[Uzupedro]

What a bad video, again.
Every Xbox related video from NXGamer comes with console war bullshit.

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What's the problem with people when it comes to any criticism about this showcase?
Yes there is a lot of overreacting and unnecessary hyperbolic, yes there are people acting in bad fait, but c'mon, the dismissive atitude of some people when anyone criticize this showcase or Halo is very weird.
Y'all want an opinion echo chamber and nothing good comes with that.

 

[Deleted member 10847]

We need more users like you with insightful takes, constructive criticism, no console war bs, shilling or astroturfing.

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Yikes..

 

[ManOfWar]

At 11:55:

... it has got nothing to do with open world games and lighting

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Now I want NX to make a deeper video about it.

 

[platocplx]

Everwild does look so good, technical chops are top stuff, honestly looks like an animated film at points and the designs are amazing for the creatures and world, so alive. Hope whatever Rare come up with in the game play department is fun.

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This was probably one of the most promising games I saw. Hope they figure out what they want it to play like.

 

[Astandahl]

And this thread is done as well.

Adieu.

 

[sasnak]

The discourse here is hugely tiring leading up to the new generation.

Thinly veiled console warring in every thread.

The "next gen memes" thread was pretty much just console wars in 90% of the posts. Hosting a thread like that causes the fanboyism to spill over into other threads.

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It's gotten completely out of hand. I really hate to say it because I still love this place, but it's dampening by enthusiasm to visit everyday. Hopefully it dies down a bit once the new consoles come out.

 

[Miggy]

We need more users like you with insightful takes, constructive criticism, no console war bs, shilling or astroturfing.

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Hey Oluasc

Elaborate on your amazing post history for us.

 

[LavaBadger]

This was probably one of the most promising games I saw. Hope they figure out what they want it to play like.

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This is my biggest concern about Everwild. I really like a lot of what came of Sea of Thieves, but it really took some time for them to get there. I really hope Everwild launches someday with the "game" properly figured out ahead of time.

 

[denx]

What a bad video, again.
Every Xbox related video from NXGamer comes with console war bullshit.

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How? If anything the video ends with a positive outlook for the future of Xbox.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I am gonna say that I never said anything of the sort and this forum sucks.
I said this, straight from my script:


How does that mean ray tracing fixes everything? It would not fix any of the issues I mentioned about LOD changes, material/art decisions, transparency issues I mentioned. I do not even say it would fix the issue of lighting completely, rather it may "help alleviate".

Truly, people only hear what they want to hear instead of listening and digesting what is said.

In making my video on this game I thought I would explain something that I thought had the largest effect on the game's visual presentation in the gameplay trailer and how I kept reading people saying "this looks flat". Taking that as an opportunity to make an educational video about the differences between static and dynamic lighting as well as how modern PBR work flows interact with them. But yeah, whatever. This forum...

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People have a serious issue with context, from the beginning I understood that the reason for your video was to explain why everything looked flat, it wasn't an absolute comprehensive analysis of everything wrong, but you wanted to focus on what you thought was the biggest issue with the demo. There are those of us here who really appreciate your work and understand completely what that video was.

 

[andresmoros]

Also, I really don't understand gamers fanboys at all. For example, I absolutely ADORE Nintendo. They are probably my favorite game makers ever, and I love Pokemon as a series. Fuck, Pokemon red/blue where my first introduction to my favorite genre: RPGs. Still, my love for Pokemon won't overshadow the fact that the last Pokemon games were an absolute shitshow on the technical side of it. Reused and dated animations, horrible textures, bugs, bad permorfance, dated graphics and character models. What is my reaction? Acknowledge that they did wrong, Gamefreak fucked up and they don't justify the popularity and revenue that a franchise like Pokemon deserves. We have to let them know, respectfully, that we deserve better. The potential and the money is there, but it doesn't show in the game.

Same thing with Halo Infinite, I was waiting to be blown away and be ready to shelve the money to get an Xbox Series X, yet Halo underperformed. The Series X looks amazing design wise, it's amazingly powerful, and I was expecting games to blow me away too. It's ok to be critical about the games you like or care about. You don't have to settle for less. That doesn't mean you don't like the games/companies/franchises, you just know we could get better games.

 

[score01]

Wow...
Another harsh one.

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He's obviously someone who just lives the ERA bubble...

 

[FireCloud]

The discourse here is hugely tiring leading up to the new generation.

Thinly veiled console warring in every thread.

The "next gen memes" thread was pretty much just console wars in 90% of the posts. Hosting a thread like that causes the fanboyism to spill over into other threads.

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So no discussion allowed about the currently perceived state of Halo Infinite or MS/343's potential remedies for those issues?

Yes the discussion is negative. The demo for the flagship game didn't impress and that disappointed a lot of people who were really looking to be blown away by the XSX. Yes there is some console warring going on. But to say you aren't allowed to voice issues with a game that looks to be in trouble with it being so close to launch and the demo looking the way it did, sounds like trying to silence criticism.

 

[Hey Please]

This was probably one of the most promising games I saw. Hope they figure out what they want it to play like.

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It is interesting that games (esp. Indies) with stylized aesthetics gained a lot of positive traction in the presentation. To that end, their ID@Xbox had one of those visually charming titles:


I wonder if these smaller titles will be given the time of day by DF or NXG (I hope so). Echo Generation (above), The Gunk, Shredders etc ought to get their fair share in the spotlight.

 

[Transistor]

Can we not go digging through people's post history and tagging them with an intent to antagonize? If you have a problem with a poster, either put them on ignore or report them for staff to deal with.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I really wish some of you would down the journalist v journalist rhetoric. It's fucking immature and leads to nothing.

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Him saying RT won't fix it wasn't even a dig at DF, it was him saying that because they will add it in a patch int he future. It's really annoying how people try to start things for no reason.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

I don't think RT will fix this. Dynamic time of day is cool as is dynamic 4K/60 FPS but this looks just like any open world current-gen game. Actually, a lot of open world games frankly look much better than this (RDR2/HZD) on much inferior hardware. Seems like dynamic lighting was a wrong choice here.
And this isn't even going into poor textures/terrible LoD. XSX needs a much better demo and the console will have much better looking games than this.

 

[Kyoufu]

I agree with NXGamer - Everwild looks absolutely beautiful and is what you'd expect from the Rare of old to come up with. I look forward to seeing more of it and what the gameplay loop will be like (when they figure that out lol).

I also agree with him regarding Halo Infinite. It just looks dated in many areas of visual fidelity. Ray Tracing alone won't save it.

And yeah, way too much CG trailers and "in-engine" footage. Microsoft aren't ready for the next gen transition at all.

 

[Ocarina_117]

So no discussion allowed about the currently perceived state of Halo Infinite or MS/343's potential remedies for those issues?

Yes the discussion is negative. The demo for the flagship game didn't impress and that disappointed a lot of people who were really looking to be blown away by the XSX. Yes there is some console warring going on. But to say you aren't allowed to voice issues with a game that looks to be in trouble with it being so close to launch and the demo looking the way it did, sounds like trying to silence criticism.

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Check my post history, I've been hugely critical of the demo/ the Microsoft show and the last part of my username is "117". I never said you're not allowed to voice concerns, drop the straw man.

Negative discussion is fine.

But a lot of what we have been seeing is thinly veiled console warring. I.e the next gen memes page.

 

[DonnieTC]

Hmmmmmmm, an error in your video NXGamer . In CrossfireX you state that Remedy is using Unreal Engine 4 and not their own engine but this is wrong. The multiplayer part (not developed by Remedy) is using Unreal Engine 4 but the single player part that Remedy is developing is using Remedy's own Northlight engine.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

You are right, just a lot of users here posting this unfortunately giving that appearance :( - have felt a bit overwhelmed with the (from my perspective) total lack of understanding about the content this past weekend ... also the ever present tagging and negativity read here, on yt, reddit, twitter. Bless you for this perspective.

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If it makes you feel better your hair in the Xbox showcase was super cute.

 

[FireCloud]

It is interesting that games (esp. Indies) with stylized aesthetics gained a lot of positive traction in the presentation. To that end, their ID@Xbox had one of those visually charming titles:


I wonder if these smaller titles will be given the time of day by DF or NXG (I hope so). Echo Generation (above), The Gunk, Shredders etc ought to get their fair share in the spotlight.

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That indie game was probably my favorite thing about the showcase. I really love the pixel art with a tilt sifted camera. Reminds me a lot of 3D Dot Gaming Heros which I also loved.

 

[platocplx]

This is my biggest concern about Everwild. I really like a lot of what came of Sea of Thieves, but it really took some time for them to get there. I really hope Everwild launches someday with the "game" properly figured out ahead of time.

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same.

It is interesting that games (esp. Indies) with stylized aesthetics gained a lot of positive traction in the presentation. To that end, their ID@Xbox had one of those visually charming titles:


I wonder if these smaller titles will be given the time of day by DF or NXG (I hope so). Echo Generation (above), The Gunk, Shredders etc ought to get their fair share in the spotlight.

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Honestly ID@XBox is an amazing thing they have. It also will bolster game pass as well going forward. This game looked great as well. One of my fav indie games was fez, I love that these new consoles will lower the barrier to entry and allow for lower budget but highly creative games, same reason why I have no problem with Sony or MS fronting money for exclusivity for a time to fund games like this. We all win because of it.

 

[Deleted member 18161]

I have to say the DF one was a little weird...
They talked about that RT will fix almost all problems, that is what i took away from it.

It was weird, because normally DF is highly detailed.

EDIT:
Changed an apparently offensive line in my post. I'm sorry for that.

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A lot of Halo was in shadow. RT GI would help a fuckton with those indirect lighting issues. Alex also said that the PBR materials need light to shine (no pun intended). If you took this game completely indoors with all non natural lighting it would be positively transformative. It wouldn't suddenly be next gen but it would look a ton better.

They chose this area and the issues it brought as a sort of homage to the original Halo as it seems to be a spiritual reboot to the series. I'm sure the mass market don't care lol.

 

[Sunnz]

To think even if they had some wind simulations with moving foliage, grass and trees, it would look so much better by default.
Looks so static

 

[foamdino]

Everwild does look so good, technical chops are top stuff, honestly looks like an animated film at points and the designs are amazing for the creatures and world, so alive. Hope whatever Rare come up with in the game play department is fun.

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Agreed Everwild looks really, really good - quality art style (and water looks *so* nice).

Hopefully we won't have to wait too long to find out more about it

 

[Fantastical]

You are right, just a lot of users here posting this unfortunately giving that appearance :( - have felt a bit overwhelmed with the (from my perspective) total lack of understanding about the content this past weekend ... also the ever present tagging and negativity read here, on yt, reddit, twitter. Bless you for this perspective.

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The entire forum has completely imploded following the Xbox showcase - seriously never seen it this bad on the gaming side. FWIW I thought it was very clear what the scope of your video was and it was extremely informative and well-made. People have their own weird agendas about video games.

BTW you guys make me look smart in front of my friends when I parrot your analysis.

 

[AllBizness]

Didnt DF seem to point out that lighting was a major issue with that demo?

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NX Gamer said no amount of lighting will fix the graphical issues.