It's nice to see they have control over what gets traced, even in nvidia materials they say only use it where it makes sense and adds to a scene vs trying to reflect everything.
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NX GAMER: Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart | Tech Analysis and Comparison | PS5 Preview
- Thread starter TheRealTalker
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I remember self-shadowing on Atreus on the E3 demo that I don't recall being in the final game. Could be misremembering, though.
Possibly just a change in light source direction. Final game has self shadowing on Kratos and Atreus, plus on elements of the environment, branches, twigs etc. Can see examples here.
Kratos' axe, plus tree branches etc.
Kratos' arm.
Atreus' fur collar, ear etc.
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Very nice. Been a long time since I've played, so I couldn't remember for sure.Possibly just a change in light source direction. Final game has self shadowing on Kratos and Atreus, plus on elements of the environment, branches, twigs etc. Can see examples here.
Kratos' axe, plus tree branches etc.
Kratos' arm.
Atreus' fur collar, ear etc.
The biggest difference is the lighting source that NX gamer mentioned in his video, but oh well.
Seems like devs have full control over it which is great. Allows them to fine tune the ray tracing up until the point it starts effecting performance too much.
I originally thought it would be like an on/off switch for ray traced reflections or lighting. Which made me think it would be used infrequently. The way Insomniac is little by little having more things reflect the rays makes me pretty excited, since hopefully that means it'll be used across a lot of games if they can be this selective.
you can do certain flavors. so from what i understand they can Mix things like have global illumination for an area then you can start picking what geometry gets rays calculated so thats how you might see particles not ray traced but certain objects, or models etc, also we might get stuff where the RT isn't full resolution etc, but still works out better than ready old methods, they also could mix new and old together to give a full picture.
if you go back to road to PS5 this graphic shows the def levels:
i bet they are starting with global illumination, and shadows. then selecting what reflections they want traced. It's gonna be interesting to see the final profuct. but between GI, shadows and reflections its gonna look great.
this video actually is pretty cool to see how diff RT works. a lot of the work def will be them deciding when to use each type and where, I think for them to get 60 FOS def will be some lighting trade offs imo however RT does scale and they might do something where they render lower and use their temporal injection I really can't wait to see what they end up doing for both modes def will be a nice way to see what trade offs there are between them.
man I'm itching for it. i bet they drop it Monday. There is a lot of footage for them to go over also between reveal and current demo. Hopefully they are impressed.
All subtle stuff but I liked all the muted yellowish hues better than the final game. Especially how blue the deer's antlers were in the final game stood out to me from the trailer. The Forest was more dull but it worked better artistically for me, like everything matched and fit together for lack of a better adjective. Still ended up a beautiful game, but I certainly prefer the color palette of the e3 2016 demo.
That might have been an effect of a bite sized, fixed demo being infinitely easier to color grade than an entire game.
Ah, bummer. They only reacted to the gameplay demo a couple months ago instead of analyzing it, so I was hoping that this being a higher-quality capture, plus it being the first time we've seen a second build of a next-gen (PS5 or XSX) game, they would have wanted to do an analysis.
Makes sense...hope they can establish something closer to that with the sequel. Same thing for TLoU2, demo was just a bit better looking and animation was stronger too, I'm hoping with PS5 version we can get something that looks even better though...
There has been no upgraded next gen version of TLoU2 announced for PS5. For now it's just going to run using backwards compatibility. Which will at least give you improved load times and performance.
Oh yeah of course...I'm just speculating ND does what they did with the first game and releases a remastered version with the MP in it maybe.
Oh yeah! Totally forgot MP is still coming. Yes, that would be awesome.
So that Sony press release is kinda weird to me. In one section it mentions that they want to explore more pc releases. but it also says that they see exclusive content as important. How do those two mesh? Also, why do they figure they need so many pc ports when Nintendo seems to do so well without them?
Yes, I don't understand why they don't want to analyse this new video. We have finally minutes of real next-gen gameplay with ray tracing and super fast loadings and it's not good enough for them to make a full analysis?
for me it is not, at least something so dramatically different than what we already said about it. We have already had at least 2 videos talking about it.
That sucks. The vast majority of folks I've seen on Twitter have echoed that this is one of the best demonstrations of next gen hardware.
There are a lot improvements in this video... watching your first video is dated now...
Im up for trading all the glitter for 4k60.
R&C is damn near unplayable below 60, the reason why Nexus was so bad compared to the games that came before it.
Maybe they feel NX covered all of the changes and they have nothing else to add.
Can't really reflect GPU particles because they are not made up of polygons. BVH only takes into account actual geometry. If the particles were geometric then it'd be different but those kind of particles is not something we've really seen in games much.
Our content gets dated all the time and we do not always cover every single thing that comes out - we have limited working power and also limited patience on top of our own wants and desires. We tend to make things we want to produce on top of looking at things the audience wishes. Do you think me talking about those changes can take up enough time to fill a 10 minute long video? I do not think so. For me it is a handful of sentences with a lot recapping and restating - some of the changes too are of the artistic variety and not visual bug fixes.
For me, It is rather normal build iteration differences and not larger systematic changes - the rendering is primarily the same, just more polished or artistically different in some areas. I think the only reason to cover them in some capacity would just be to state that they exist - which NXGamer already did a darn fine job on.
Yeah - the only way they could do it as I see would be to overlay SSR onto the RT reflections, but that has its own problems as well.
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This is a really interesting chat. Almost three hours of NXGamer...
He's a developer in the industry working with govt and other companies etc
Sony and Nintendo handle their business way too different. It actually makes sense for Sony to bring some of their biggest exclusives to PC, even if they're "old" titles like Horizon.
That is why they don't talk about day one releases for PC.
You will not see first party PS Studio games day one on PC, they clearly stated that they want PlayStation to be the place to go to.
It is about bringing "older" games to PC, maybe even some smaller ones. I think also 3rd (2nd) party games that are published by PlayStation could come to PC.
After a game was for years on PlayStation you can make some money on PC, and allowing PC as a platform can make publishing deals more interesting for the devs.
Building strong exclusive games for PlayStation, and get some gains from the PC market.
They are obviously making changes to the game. Looks like they have plenty of headroom to add more effects like below (hopefully add in portal reflections) I don't think there's any need to worry about a downgrade just don't get emotionally attached to a scene's colour grading.
I failed to notice that the portal was acting as an emissive material. The scene looks even richer for it now. The lack of reflection for portal is jarring however. Given it is not polygonal, I hope Insomniac adds in SSR for these elements. Furthermore, I would be curious if they went the route of DICE and implemented SSR on a wider basis and using RT as a compensator for when the polygonal object to be reflected is no longer in screen space.
Anyone care to explain (in easier to understand language) NXGamer's opinion that the SSD is being used for the instant geometry changes in the environment? I took an image below, between frames the rift generates the rocks in view on the second image.
I assumed this would be all in memory, but nxgamer suggests this is bypassing it and not held in memory at all. Starts around 7:30 in video
I assumed this would be all in memory, but nxgamer suggests this is bypassing it and not held in memory at all. Starts around 7:30 in video
They are obviously making changes to the game. Looks like they have plenty of headroom to add more effects like below (hopefully add in portal reflections) I don't think there's any need to worry about a downgrade just don't get emotionally attached to a scene's colour grading.
Wow. Perfect example of huge improvements.
Insomniac must love the poring over their games all the time.
Anyone care to explain (in easier to understand language) NXGamer's opinion that the SSD is being used for the instant geometry changes in the environment? I took an image below, between frames the rift generates the rocks in view on the second image.
I assumed this would be all in memory, but nxgamer suggests this is bypassing it and not held in memory at all. Starts around 7:30 in video
I'm in no way a pro, but...
How i understand it, those rocks don't have to be in the RAM while you play the game scene in pic1.
If you reach pic2 the files for the left and right wall get swapped with the rock files in the RAM.
And that happens because of the fast SSD and the specialised IO.
I'm pretty sure that description is a little bit to simple, but i think that is kinda how it works.
In the end you save RAM.
And maybe that even effects the CPU, no clue about that.
Anyone care to explain (in easier to understand language) NXGamer's opinion that the SSD is being used for the instant geometry changes in the environment? I took an image below, between frames the rift generates the rocks in view on the second image.
I assumed this would be all in memory, but nxgamer suggests this is bypassing it and not held in memory at all. Starts around 7:30 in video
Data to be used in rendering is always held in RAM as the final step before feeding the GPU.
I may be mistaken but what NXG is alluding to is given the speed of I/O system thanks it being both NAND as well as having its own set of co-processors that removes the general Zen 2 CPU from being taxed, the RAM does not need to pre-store the data that comprises of the rocks the appear and adorn the walls as well as the creature that shows up when the open portal appears (which due to the streaming speed of current HDD would have necessitated the data to be pre-stored in the PS4's RAM to avoid performance disruption, thereby lowering the asset quality of the surrounding areas). The CPU can simply request/page the data it requires or anticipates as imminent and in a matter of milliseconds the data is retrieved, checked, decompressed and fed directly into the RAM all courtesy of the storage system's co-processors all the way from the NAND storage. This way, the RAM pool can used to for storing higher/highest fidelity data and assets that is relevant to the player at any given moment.
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You'll happily analyse a PC game in detail with settings from Low to Medium or from High to Ultra that don't evidence any major changes compared to this.
Poor excuse.
Anyway, the games look phenomenal. These changes seem to be beyond what we actually expected. God knows how god this thing will look come release.
This is not an "excuse" - it is an explanation. There are not "holes" in the logic of why I would not cover something.
How I choose to cover settings in PC game review videos has no bearing on how I would approach a trailer analysis video for a console game.
At this point I'll rather have DF wait until preview code to dig deeper into these next-gen games we see how much Ratchet improved already in just a few months
Smh, you all need to chill. NXG did an analysis which is the basis of this thread. You don't need DF to just repeat the same things again. Insomniac has just improved certain elements that NXG touched on in his video.
Plus they will do an analysis when the game is officially released.
Ok you can stop. DF can do whatever they want. The demo is basically the same as what was shown in June with optimizations. If they feel it's important to cover they will.
No need to berate them, it's stuff like this that causes them to not respond to this place.