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Deleted member 11276

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Oct 27, 2017
3,223
Patch notes are out. Says that DLSS 2.0 is now supported as of Patch 1.08 and the download we have done bundled 1.08 and 1.09. I dunno, I standby my earlier message that the new DLSS looks better and I'd be happy if this is the DLSS 2.0 implementation.
Hm interesting.

I mean, it looks really good. But it's a bit strange they're not using the tensor cores currently, seems more like a bug to me. DLSS 2.0 in titles like Wolfenstein and Deliver Us To The Moon all use tensor cores. IDK about Mechwarrior, if there is someone who has it and could run Nsight that would be a huge help.

Honestly seeing this tech running without tensor cores, it baffles me that Nvidia doesn't open up this tech to the public.Then again, it's Nvidia and they like money.

They are possible if you're still able to fit into your frame budget with them and if using tensor cores for them gives you performance boost when compared to simply running them on main SIMDs.

I see, thanks for your insight!
 
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Resident Guru

Member
Oct 28, 2017
919
This tech is straight up insane.

I just tried the intro in Control with the latest patch.
Ran 1440p output resolution, DLSS @ 720p and it looked crisp as fuck. Really couldn't pass an eye test between DLSS on or off.

Haven't tried any higher settins, but Raytracing at medium seems to be no problem at all for the RTX2060 at 1440p with DLSS at 720p.
And it looks great, really great.

This technology is just awesome. I'm about to test Control with my 2080ti at 4k with DLSS at 1440p.
 

exodus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,944
Hm interesting.

I mean, it looks really good. But it's a bit strange they're not using the tensor cores currently, seems more like a bug to me. DLSS 2.0 in titles like Wolfenstein and Deliver Us To The Moon all use tensor cores. IDK about Mechwarrior, if there is someone who has it and could run Nsight that would be a huge help.

Honestly seeing this tech running without tensor cores, it baffles me that Nvidia doesn't open up this tech to the public.Then again, it's Nvidia and they like money.

That sounds so damn promising. Here's hoping it still looks good at 1080p output.

What they really need now to leverage this properly is supersampling in all new games. Imagine being able to DLSS @ 1080p up to 4K and downscale to native.

Consoles all support proper up scaling/downscaling, and PC needs to catch up. DSR is a solution that doesn't work as well as it should, and I'm also forced to disable it unless I force kill my Oculus services since it causes issues with the desktop in that case.

If we can get to a point where render resolution is fully decoupled from the monitor resolution without any obvious drawbacks we'll be in a very good place.
 

KKRT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,544
Honestly seeing this tech running without tensor cores, it baffles me that Nvidia doesn't open up this tech to the public.Then again, it's Nvidia and they like money.
Are you sure its not using tensor cores? Because even previous implementation used tensor cores in some degree.
Thats even in your old post: https://www.resetera.com/threads/dl...implement-it-well-anyway.168195/post-28857425
Maybe something about reporting in NSight is broken.
 

Deleted member 11276

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,223
Are you sure its not using tensor cores? Because even previous implementation used tensor cores in some degree.
Thats even in your old post: https://www.resetera.com/threads/dl...implement-it-well-anyway.168195/post-28857425
Maybe something about reporting in NSight is broken.
Yes, I'm quite sure. I don't think NSight is broken, it's a quite precise tool and if there would be something wrong with it, it wouldn't even let me capture a frame.

Yes, that's why I'm so surprised. DUTTM and WY used Tensors to great extent. I was under the impression that the tensor cores are the main part of how they were able to deliver so much improvement at such high framerates, but looking at Control it seems like it has more to do with more training and fine tuning.

The performance with the new implementation is a tiny bit lower than with the last shader implementation on the same render resolution, so its certainly more demanding. If it was using the tensor cores, it would run faster instead, relieving the shader ALUs.

If Nvidia can be trusted, this is a DL neural network. Could be running in FP32 precision on the shader cores for sure, I don't think such improvements can be made on an image processing software like before.

See the power of machine learning:

720p no MSAA full RT, upscaled to 1440p. This is the most demanding scene in the game so it's really heavily GPU limited, ideal for testing.

controlscreenshot20205pkgx.png


720p no MSAA full RT, reconstructed to 1440p using DLSS

controlscreenshot20209rkbh.png


As you can see, DLSS only takes 5 FPS for reconstruction and delivers an immensive jump in image quality. It's magic.
It's possible that their deep learning model is so fast and efficient that tensor cores are just not needed anymore, I mean yeah it comes pretty close to upscaling performance. If that's the case, I'd rather want them to use the tensor cores for ML denoising and for DirectML stuff in the future.
 
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KKRT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,544
Can you record usage of GPU module in NSight for extended period of time and show some graph?
 
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ILikeFeet

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
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Oct 25, 2017
61,987
it's possible that Control's already unique implementation made for Remedy to update that rather than utilize DLSS as the other games (DUtM, Wolf, MechWarrior) do.

it does imply that DLSS can run on the shader cores, but it does have a performance penalty unlike running on the tensors. that's probably what Nvidia meant when they said they hit a wall with that method
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
I'm still working, so I can't check this patch out until later, but I'm really eager to see the new implementation and compare how it stacks up to Youngblood. There's no doubt it's better than the old DLSS.
 

Galava

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,080
This tech is straight up insane.

I just tried the intro in Control with the latest patch.
Ran 1440p output resolution, DLSS @ 720p and it looked crisp as fuck. Really couldn't pass an eye test between DLSS on or off.

Haven't tried any higher settins, but Raytracing at medium seems to be no problem at all for the RTX2060 at 1440p with DLSS at 720p.
And it looks great, really great.
You can max RT settings on a 2060 rendering at 720p without any worries ;)
 

Edgar

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Oct 29, 2017
7,180
Idk, I am getting 40fps with this new update, using 2080ti BTW. I rather stick to native 1080p
 

Galava

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Oct 27, 2017
5,080
Idk, I am getting 40fps with this new update, using 2080ti BTW. I rather stick to native 1080p
That's weird. RTX2060 here, 1080p DLSS (720p render) and it's 65-75fps RT effects at max. Did you update the drivers?

Dictator is here! :D Can we expect a DLSS 2.0 update video on the topic? :P
 

orava

Alt Account
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Jun 10, 2019
1,316
How do you set the resolutions in games that use DLSS? There usually is just the normal resolution setting and DLSS off/on. Does it always just scale to native monitor resolution?
 

Galava

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Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,080
After I finish my Alyx perf video, yeah I would like to do a quick update video on it.
Looking forward to the Alyx one too :)

How do you set the resolutions in games that use DLSS? There usually is just the normal resolution setting and DLSS off/on. Does it always just scale to native monitor resolution?
On Control, once you enable the DLSS option in the graphics menu, a dropdown will be enabled just above with the available resolutions. It will get scaled up to your monitor's resolution (or windows resolution). Don't know how it performs with DSR (if it even works)
 

Edgar

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Oct 29, 2017
7,180

laxu

Member
Nov 26, 2017
2,782
The good: DLSS 2.0 in Control is awesome! I can't tell it apart from native resolution.
The bad: Remedy have still not fixed super ultrawide support! The max resolution in the menus is 3440x1440. I had to patch the game to get it working at 5120x1440.

The real good news is that DLSS 2.0 seems to be resolution agnostic. I calculated scale factors from the resolutions offered for 3440x1440 and then applied them to my 5120x1440 resolution. Even at the lowest 2560x720 (0.5x scale) it looks almost the same as native resolution.

The performance boost is significant. Native 5120x1440 with max raytracing etc gives me about 28-30 fps on a 2080 Ti in the Central Executive fast travel point. With DLSS enabled at 2560x720 I get 70 fps!

DLSS completely breaks down if you try to use DLSS when render resolution = native resolution (set from renderer.ini). It would draw a grid of red boxes maybe 8x8 and start showing artifacts when moving the camera. Performance was the same as native resolution.
 

ThreepQuest64

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
5,735
Germany
I'm also surprised by the quality of DLSS. On my 4k TV I can't really tell the difference between native 4k and 1080p DLSS upscaled (sitting 2m away from a 55 inch). Unfortunately with DLSS activated I've got a lot of blurry texture that won't load properly. :(
 

Edgar

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Oct 29, 2017
7,180
Your res is probably higher than it was in 1.9 version. The 1.9 version only offered 1080p or 1440p up to 4K - you have 1252p selected there. Use 1080p to Match you previous Patch performance.
you are right , i missed 1080p option for Dlss after the patch, lol. I was not using Dlss before , just native 4k with internal res of 1080p before this patch .

And yeah it looks much much better than before. And i can sustain 60fps now , dang
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,348
I hope this will land together with raytracing in Doom Eternal so I can play this with everything maxed out at 4k60fps like the dark gods to which id sacrificed their lambs intended it to be.
 

Jtrizzy

Member
Nov 13, 2017
619
Trying this out...I agree that the IQ bump is pretty amazing. I am not really seeing performance increases though. I have a 9600k, 2080, and am playing at max settings. 4k output with 1080p for DLSS. What kind of performance should I be expecting. It works great with G-Sync, so being in the 50's plays nicely.
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
God, NVIDIA just blew my mind. I didn't use DLSS while playing Control on my 1440p monitor, I thought it looked pretty bad. But my god, that new DLSS 2.0 is amazing. I just played a few minutes and it looks really great, like almost native great. Take a look at this:
Native 1440p (38FPS):
file.php


960p to 1440p using DLSS 2.0 (68FPS):
file.php


Native 1440p (34FPS):
file.php


960p to 1440p using DLSS 2.0 (57FPS):
file.php


Mind-blowing. Look at the "Restricted Area" sign in the DLSS image, it looks sharper. Look at the wires, no visible aliasing. And the FPS is ~70% higher.
 
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DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
Does Deliver us the Moon have it right now? I can select between quality, performance and balanced and honestly can't tell the difference beside larges gains in FPS.

It looks really good even if it is not 2.0.
 
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ILikeFeet

ILikeFeet

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Oct 25, 2017
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Does Deliver us the Moon have it right now? I can select between quality, performance and balanced and honestly can't tell the difference beside larges gains in FPS.

It looks really good even if it is not 2.0.
It was one of the first two games to have 2.0 (Wolfenstein Youngblood being the other)
 

Gitaroo

Member
Nov 3, 2017
7,990
Still waiting for darksider 3, and Mass Effect andromeda to get dlss update... Anytime now.... Anytime...
 

Mr Swine

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,033
Sweden
God, NVIDIA just blew my mind. I didn't use DLSS while playing Control on my 1440p monitor, I thought it looked pretty bad. But my god, that new DLSS 2.0 is amazing. I just played a few minutes and it looks really great, like almost native great. Take a look at this:
Native 1440p (38FPS):
file.php


960p to 1440p using DLSS 2.0 (68FPS):
file.php


Native 1440p (34FPS):
file.php


960p to 1440p using DLSS 2.0 (57FPS):
file.php


Mind-blowing. Look at the "Restricted Area" sign in the DLSS image, it looks sharper. Look at the wires, no visible aliasing. And the FPS is ~70% higher.

wow, that looks fantastic! I hope more games use it. Can you choose DLSS resolution or how does it work?
 

Csr

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,029
My last 3 cards have been AMD but there is no chance i am going AMD for my next upgrade if they don't get something like this.
 

Galava

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,080
Some shots with the different DLSS settings on a 1080p monitor.

DLSS 540p
wtvieY6.png


DLSS 626p
xDkXBOx.png


DLSS 720p

9bfGCxK.png


Native 1080p
Cl6VPO9.png
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
wow, that looks fantastic! I hope more games use it. Can you choose DLSS resolution or how does it work?
I'm playing at 1440p, so I got 3 options, to reconstruct from 720p, 835p or 960p. The screenshots are using 960p and the gain is 60% - 70% better performance. You can edit ini files and get other resolutions, but 960p works wonderfully on my 2080RTX, around 60fps with everything maxed. 720p looks really great, it's very surprising, but 960p looks almost as if you are playing at native 1440p but instead of 30fps+, I'm getting 60fps, which is mind-blowing. So I'm sticking with 960p DLSS to 1440p.
 

Poison Jam

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,984
Nope. If you switch texture filtering to medium then back to high, it will fix it to some degree for that play session.
Man, that's a shame. I find it related to VRAM usage or something, as reducing the resolution seems to also reduce the frequency of it occuring.

Was really hoping Remedy would have that shit sorted for the expansion.
 

Darktalon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,265
Kansas
The DLSS 2.0 Update is out for Control. It works very well. Only issue I have is that the Texture LOD is absolutely bugged, you have very low texture quality while using the lower resolution DLSS, and it takes a long time to popin when you zoom in on it.
 

DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
The DLSS 2.0 Update is out for Control. It works very well. Only issue I have is that the Texture LOD is absolutely bugged, you have very low texture quality while using the lower resolution DLSS, and it takes a long time to popin when you zoom in on it.

That has existed in the game forever, the game simply runs out of VRAM quickly under DX12, even with 8GB, and instead of loading in from RAM and cause constant stuttering, it just mostly stops loading them after a while and load extremely slowly. It is fixed if you go to menu and come back until you go to a new room and repeat that, that's not a real fix. Reducing distance LOD option helps it quite a bit, set it to low. The fact they haven't really fixed it by now tells me they have no fix for it.

I think it doesn't make sense to use ultra or even high textures when you are using DLSS. Those textures are sampled at a much lower resolution and they are reconstructed by algorithm anyway. It should not make any difference when the internal resolution is 1080p or even lower for a 2060 card for example, you can free up VRAM by using medium and prevent these LOD failures happening. Ultra textures are intended for proper 4K usually, when you are using DLSS it should not matter nearly as much.
 
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