Nvidia seeking to acquire chip designer ARM from SoftBank: report

[Qassim]

There are different types of ARM license. Companies like Apple own the license which allows them to independently design and develop their own ARM cores using the ARM instruction sets. Several other companies, including NVIDIA, Samsung, Qualcomm etc have the same kind of license.

You can also license ARM designed cores and other things ARM design.

Whoever buys ARM, I don't think it'd be a significant worry for any of their architectural licensees (like Apple, Samsung, etc). The ARM business model is entirely based around licensing their technology, it'd be unlikely for that to change under new ownership. Plus, I doubt regulators would let anything like is being suggested in this thread happen.

 

[Gin]

Tegra a family of SOCs which includes an ARM CPU and a nvidia designed GPU. Tegra X1 is an SoC, it has a bog standard ARM A57 core (which was afairly common CPU for phones a few years back) and an nvidia designed maxwell (desktop GPU) with 256 CUDA cores. Them buying ARM would potentially allow them to more closely integrate future ARM core search to their GPUs but it likely won't have an immediate impact. There will be ARM CPU designs licensed out and nvidia will still have its GPUs

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Thanks for taking the time to explain this in detail - much appreciated

 

[Dekuman]

They can already do that now, they've been able to do that...forever? The flexibility is part of why ARM is so popular. Hell they even have an architecture license, although I don't know if they've done anything other than the Denver cores, which didn't gain much traction iirc.

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They can and the nvidia side of the company didn't design anything that great. But owning ARM outright means they can send their GPU people to work with the CPU people and vice versa. At the bare minimum ARM's GPU tech will now feature nvidia tech

 

[low-G]

There are different types of ARM license. Companies like Apple own the license which allows them to independently design and develop their own ARM cores using the ARM instruction sets. Several other companies, including NVIDIA, Samsung, Qualcomm etc have the same kind of license.

You can also license ARM designed cores and other things ARM design.

Whoever buys ARM, I don't think it'd be a significant worry for any of their architectural licensees (like Apple, Samsung, etc). The ARM business model is entirely based around licensing their technology, it'd be unlikely for that to change under new ownership. Plus, I doubt regulators would let anything like is being suggested in this thread happen.

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Come to think of it, ARM really fits the pattern of the type of company some big company buys pledging support. Support is withdrawn day one, and both the buying company and everyone else moves to a different technology.

 

[ILikeFeet]

They can and the nvidia side of the company didn't design anything that great. But owning ARM outright means they can send their GPU people to work with the CPU people and vice versa. At the bare minimum ARM's GPU tech will now feature nvidia tech

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I can't see Mali surviving should they get bought by Nvidia. Mali hasn't been particularly good for the longest time. a couple of SMs from Nvidia would probably be enough to beat out Mali. the kicker would be update scheduling

 

[Crazymoogle]

Anandtech has an old (2013) but good look at how companies license ARM and how the licenses can be perpetual - meaning no matter who buys it Apple or Samsung, etc can continue building products indefinitely.

Eventually the ARM product would be obsolete, but companies that big can afford to either extend the architecture themselves or license something else, in the off chance that ARM would be destroyed by a new owner.

 

[squeakywheel]

Please no. I hope antitrust comes into play.

 

[SharpX68K]

Nvidia made an approach in recent weeks about a potential deal for Cambridge, England-based Arm, Bloomberg reported, citing people with knowledge of the matter.

SoftBank is exploring options to sell part or all of its stake in Arm through a private deal or public stock listing, Bloomberg said. Other potential bidders could also emerge. Nvidia's interest may not lead to a deal, and SoftBank may still opt to pursue a listing, the people said.

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Nvidia Interested in Buying SoftBank's Arm Chip Designer

SoftBank is reportedly exploring options to sell part or all of its stake in chip designer Arm. Nvidia is interested, a media report says.

www.thestreet.com

 

[Technosteve]

i would think a consortium of companies would buy ARM, the other alternative is apple already working on next gen instructions and don't need arm.

 

[ShinobiOfTheWind]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT.

This is MASSIVE if the discussions escalate to bids, and the deal eventually goes through. The ENTIRE FUCKING MOBILE MARKET. GODDAMN. This is just too much power, that too for a company like NVDA. Consolidation at it's absolute peak.

Also, people worried about Apple's future with their proprietary, yearly A** Bionic SoC's, don't. Chipmakers usually don't sign licenses, unless they have a legally binding hold/clause, that protects their rights to manufacture the products based on the license (especially from buyouts like this or a hostile takeover), at least till it expires. Then, there's RISC-V - a FOSS alternative, and has no royalties like ARM.

I wonder if this has anything to do with their recent purchase of Mellanox Technologies, for ~USD$7.5BN, which is primarily to focus on their networking expertise for the Enterprise (Data Centers) market, and obviously, AI.

 

[wollywinka]

Mine is the new MacBook Pro 13. The best laptop Apple makes that doesn't have a discrete GPU. I phrased that sentence poorly.

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OK, I understand now. The best AMD-less laptop. AMD is still necessary to keep Intel and Nvidia in check.

 

[wollywinka]

Apple isn't interested.

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I think Apple might be if Nvidia starts sniffing around. I wonder which jurisdiction's anti-competition laws would govern a potential sale?

 

[dgrdsv]

Come to think of it, ARM really fits the pattern of the type of company some big company buys pledging support. Support is withdrawn day one, and both the buying company and everyone else moves to a different technology.

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So a company pays 32 bln USD and the next day just dumps them into garbage? Nice business plan.

Out of all tech companies who could buy Arm NV is the only one which is unlikely to create any issues for future Arm development. All the rest would have conflicting interests over Arm tech with current licensees.

But I doubt that NV will buy it as a whole. A stake is much more possible.

 

[Gohlad]

Forgive me as I am not that familiar with acquisitions of that type, but what's stopping a giant Chinese company (like Tencent or Alibaba) to buy ARM? Wouldn't that be much much worse, than Nvidia?

 

[Deleted member 10847]

Forgive me as I am not that familiar with acquisitions of that type, but what's stopping a giant Chinese company (like Tencent or Alibaba) to buy ARM? Wouldn't that be much much worse, than Nvidia?

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To be honest in our current world state, it´s not good for either a chinese, american or any other nationality to buy ARM.

 

[RestEerie]

This is just too much power, that too for a company like NVDA. Consolidation at it's absolute peak.

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?? Other than Shield TV and Switch, Nvidia do not have any ARM products at the moment targeting the mobile market. If Qualcomm or Intel's the one to do the acquisition, then yes, it's consolidation. Intel for one will never be able to buy ARM due to them already controlling x86 CISC market. Them owning ARM RISC market will be impossible.

Nvidia's owning ARM will not be any different than ARM under the current ownership with Softbank. It's a business deal and i don't see it under any anti-competition law.

My only question is how Nvidia's gonna fork out the cash to do this as they just spent alot on the Mellanox acquisition, in itself a BIG deal (in the enterprise space).

Disclaimer: Am Nvidia shareholder

 

[nampad]

As long as the licensing isn't hindered, it should be fine. The licensing is a big part Of the business model so it wouldn't make sense to stop it, the regulators probably wouldn't let it happen anyway.

Hope there will be a move to an open platform like Risc-V so licensing shenanigans won't be an issue in the future.

Forgive me as I am not that familiar with acquisitions of that type, but what's stopping a giant Chinese company (like Tencent or Alibaba) to buy ARM? Wouldn't that be much much worse, than Nvidia?

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Probably won't be allowed to sell to a Chinese company by the government I guess.

 

[OtterMatic]

The report was that Softbank looking for a buyer. They are talking with Apple and Nvidia separately right now.

I am surprised that Softbank is trying to sell it, let alone the whole thing rather than part of it. ARM is destined to replace x86 in the future so I don't really understand why they are selling it.

 

[RestEerie]

I am surprised that Softbank is trying to sell it, let alone the whole thing rather than part of it.

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softbank is not doing too well with the WeWork fiasco that cost them and its CEO alot of credits.

 

[Enkidu]

Bloomberg has a follow-up article where they are saying that Nvidia might not be Softbank's first choice and are instead suggesting a merger between ARM and Cadence. Such a deal might make sense from business model perspective (there is pretty much no overlap, so no regulatory fears) but if the whole point is for Softbank to sell assets to reduce debt, it seems like Nvidia makes more sense.

 

[OtterMatic]

softbank is not doing to well with the WeWork fiasco that cost them and its CEO alot of credits.

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I thought outside of Alibaba and ARM, Vision Fund invested in a lot of bad businesses. But it seems that Softbank is doing pretty terrible nowadays if they are looking at this option when ARM is still on the rise.

 

[JahIthBer]

Only Intel & AMD would really be worried about this, especially AMD. I could see Nvidia trying to get a console deal next gen since they can throw in a CPU now.

 

[Deleted member 862]

Anyone has got to be better than Softbank. Who knows what's going on with them these days.

Should've never sold but Apple or Nvidia would be fine tbh.

 

[RestEerie]

I thought outside of Alibaba and ARM, Vision Fund invested in a lot of bad businesses. But it seems that Softbank is doing pretty terrible nowadays if they are looking at this option when ARM is still on the rise.

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the other 'bad' ventures from that vision fund is no match for this giant poop that's WeWork that they invested heavily in.

It REALLY cost them alot BEFORE the pandemic and with the current pandemic, it's gonna be even worse.

 

[RestEerie]

Only Intel & AMD would really be worried about this, especially AMD. I could see Nvidia trying to get a console deal next gen since they can throw in a CPU now.

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not saying it's impossible but asking big budget game devs to switch from CISC to RISC based architecture will not be...........easy.

 

[Xando]

I thought outside of Alibaba and ARM, Vision Fund invested in a lot of bad businesses. But it seems that Softbank is doing pretty terrible nowadays if they are looking at this option when ARM is still on the rise.

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They need to raise atleast 40 billion for their vision fund. They already sold 20 billion worth of T-Mobile stock and are looking for more.

 

[Voltaire]

Yay more garbage licensing and proprietary bullshit. Why does nvidia wants to ruin everything all the time?

 

[Ravage]

Let's hope this amounts to nothing. Can't trust Nvidia to not fuck things up for everyone.

 

[dgrdsv]

Only Intel & AMD would really be worried about this, especially AMD. I could see Nvidia trying to get a console deal next gen since they can throw in a CPU now.

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They can throw in an Arm CPU right now, without owning Arm so this is hardly an issue. It's also very clear that NV doesn't view console market as something they are interested in business wise so investing 32 billions into that seems completely mad.
Them using high performance Arm cores in their supercomputers and servers and customizing them for ML applications is a much more lucrative idea. And yeah, both Intel and AMD (and IBM and Apple) could be worried over this.

 

[low-G]

So a company pays 32 bln USD and the next day just dumps them into garbage? Nice business plan.

Out of all tech companies who could buy Arm NV is the only one which is unlikely to create any issues for future Arm development. All the rest would have conflicting interests over Arm tech with current licensees.

But I doubt that NV will buy it as a whole. A stake is much more possible.

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This bullshit happens all the time, so yeah. Nobody gets anything about of it. Lots of people lose their jobs. The buying company isn't harmed at all.

I don't know what the company is thinking, EA with RenderWare, MS with Mixer (which wasn't originally Mixer). What did they expect to get out of it?

 

[dgrdsv]

This bullshit happens all the time, so yeah.

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Name one recent example.
Better yet, name an example of a company which NV has bought over time to just close it off the next day.

 

[SchroDingerzat]

This bullshit happens all the time, so yeah. Nobody gets anything about of it. Lots of people lose their jobs. The buying company isn't harmed at all.

I don't know what the company is thinking, EA with RenderWare, MS with Mixer (which wasn't originally Mixer). What did they expect to get out of it?

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What are you on about? This is a complete different industry. NVidia licenses ARM, they work with them quite a lot. If anything this gives them the ability to shape the direction of future ARM tech. They are not going to spend such a ridiculous amount of money to shutter it.

 

[Mass Effect]

I have to wonder if Nvidia only ends up with a stake in ARM rather than outright ownership.

Though there is a bit of irony in Apple moving away from Intel only to have to potentially deal with Nvidia.

Only Intel & AMD would really be worried about this, especially AMD. I could see Nvidia trying to get a console deal next gen since they can throw in a CPU now.

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Not a chance. Consoles are small fry compared to what Nvidia is aiming for with this (enterprise level tech). Way more money there than paltry consoles (relatively).

softbank is not doing too well with the WeWork fiasco that cost them and its CEO alot of credits.

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The whole story behind WeWork was absolutely crazy. Billions lost.

Adam Neumann is a hack.

 

[Dr. Mario]

Why are people saying this would trigger antitrust? Nvidia doesn't particularly have a presence in mobile, so in that sense them or Softbank owning it doesn't really matter.

 

[pj-]

not saying it's impossible but asking big budget game devs to switch from CISC to RISC based architecture will not be...........easy.

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what about all the big budget games that have been ported to switch?

 

[BlastProcessing]

Why are people saying this would trigger antitrust? Nvidia doesn't particularly have a presence in mobile, so in that sense them or Softbank owning it doesn't really matter.

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Arm is about way more than mobile at this point. I think Nvidia buying Arm could pass through the regulators relatively easily, but the regulators would be able to extract agreements from Nvidia about fair licensing terms going forward.

 

[Dakhil]

So a company pays 32 bln USD and the next day just dumps them into garbage? Nice business plan.

Out of all tech companies who could buy Arm NV is the only one which is unlikely to create any issues for future Arm development. All the rest would have conflicting interests over Arm tech with current licensees.

But I doubt that NV will buy it as a whole. A stake is much more possible.

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Does Cadence have any conflicting interests with Arm? As far as I know, Cadence doesn't compete with Arm or Arm's consumers, and Softbank prefers to sell Arm to Cadence over Nvidia.

But anyway, I have very mixed feelings about Nvidia potentially acquiring Arm. Whilst I would prefer a hardware agnostic company to acquire Arm (and I don't know if Nvidia would prevent new companies, like AMD or Intel, from acquiring Arm licences), one potential good thing about Nvidia acquiring Arm is that Arm would be forced to design SoCs that are competitive against Apple's custom SoCs (though I don't know if that's possible).

 

[Nostremitus]

Nvidia would likely seek to treat the acquisition the same way Intel treats X86, especially considering Nvidia's track record with their iron fisted control of their proprietary designs. If they purchase ARM, it will be for profitability purposes. Entire industries are tied to ARM and the openness of the IP. Many companies have billions invested in their own ARM architectural designs. If Nvidia add the Nvidia Tax to the licensing agreements, very few businesses would have the sway to do anything about it. Only Apple, LG, or Samsung would likely be in a position of influence. Smaller chip producers would likely slowly die or be forced to attempt to develop on another, more niche, chip design.

Nvidia would not care about those losses considering they also produce ARM processors and would be in a position to take over as a chip supplier for the failing companies' contracts. Qualcomm will likely be in dire straits.

 

[dgrdsv]

Does Cadence have any conflicting interests with Arm?

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They should be fine too but I don't know if them owning Arm will create something similar to the synergy which could be there with NV.

 

[OtterMatic]

Why are people saying this would trigger antitrust? Nvidia doesn't particularly have a presence in mobile, so in that sense them or Softbank owning it doesn't really matter.

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NVidia's Tegra chips are based on ARM.
Switch is using the Tegra X1.
The older Tesla cars have Tegra chips.
And Nvidia is working with Volvo, Mercedes-Benz, and Volkswagen so NVidia is gonna have some presence in the auto industry at least.

 

[RestEerie]

. If they purchase ARM, it will be for profitability purposes. E

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Just humor me for a second, are there even any other companies that will purchase or even function not for profitability purposes?

 

[Nostremitus]

Just humor me for a second, are there even any other companies that will purchase or even function not for profitability purposes?

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Of course not, but Nvidia has a track record of price gauging every single time they've been in a position to do so. They view profitable at all costs, regardless of how anti-consumer doing so may be.

They finally caved on Gsync because the television industry as a whole told them no and moved forward with the VESA standard instead of Nvidia proprietary technology.

 

[SharpX68K]

Bloomberg has a follow-up article where they are saying that Nvidia might not be Softbank's first choice and are instead suggesting a merger between ARM and Cadence. Such a deal might make sense from business model perspective (there is pretty much no overlap, so no regulatory fears) but if the whole point is for Softbank to sell assets to reduce debt, it seems like Nvidia makes more sense.

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Interesting.

 

[low-G]

Name one recent example.
Better yet, name an example of a company which NV has bought over time to just close it off the next day.

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MS with Mixer? Hello? This was weeks ago. I'm not here to debate this, just stating history at this point.

What are you on about? This is a complete different industry. NVidia licenses ARM, they work with them quite a lot. If anything this gives them the ability to shape the direction of future ARM tech. They are not going to spend such a ridiculous amount of money to shutter it.

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I'm on how these sort of mergers always go. Slightly different industry for sure. Not saying Nvidia will definitely do this. But I am saying ANY company that buys ARM is likely to do this, based on how these things usually go.

What are you on about saying this doesn't happen? Can you give me some examples of a large tech hardware companies buying up smaller, idea based hardware companies and the smaller company's product line continuing as is?

 

[Warszawa]

Lol at the concern trolls over Apple. They couldn't give a shit about Arm, its a means to an end, perpetual liscnecing etc. They might not even stick to Arm in the next 10-15 years, everything is going to go through a compiler, and output an Intel and Arm binary for applications for the near future, that can be changed to any other architecture if they want, hell somebody found a way to compile a PowerPC/Intel/Arm binary recently.

I guarantee Apples eventual goal is to have there own ISA one day, and it will be completely seamless to developers through Xcode. Customers won't even notice.

 

[dgrdsv]

MS with Mixer?

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A 24 heads startup which was likely bought for less than 1M USD?
That's peanuts money for any medium to big sized company. Compare that to 32B Arm capitalization.

I'm not here to debate this, just stating history at this point.

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You've yet to provide an example of such history happening.

 

[Qassim]

I'm on how these sort of mergers always go. Slightly different industry for sure. Not saying Nvidia will definitely do this. But I am saying ANY company that buys ARM is likely to do this, based on how these things usually go.

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Why didn't Softbank do it then?

ARM was independent, then Softbank bought them. Nothing really changed for ARM.

Now Softbank is selling.

 

[Soap]

This sounds awful

 

[Sean Mirrsen]

I see nothing awful, or even particularly bad in this. Nvidia has a lot of tech that could complement and improve ARM-based hardware. Nvidia's Tegra line is just ARM chips with Nvidia iGPUs, it's a GPU maker buying a CPU maker to reduce their own licensing costs. ARM-based CPUs by other manufacturers, be it Samsung, Qualcomm, or Apple, would still be made the same as they are now, it'd just benefit Nvidia rather than SoftBank. And Nvidia could expand into the mobile market more. With how little presence Nvidia has in the mobile space, besides the Switch and a handful of devices, I can only see it as a good thing - Nvidia has a lot of tech that could benefit mobile hardware, and them getting more presence in that space will only be good for consumers.

 

[Onix555]

I see nothing awful, or even particularly bad in this. Nvidia has a lot of tech that could complement and improve ARM-based hardware. Nvidia's Tegra line is just ARM chips with Nvidia iGPUs, it's a GPU maker buying a CPU maker to reduce their own licensing costs. ARM-based CPUs by other manufacturers, be it Samsung, Qualcomm, or Apple, would still be made the same as they are now, it'd just benefit Nvidia rather than SoftBank. And Nvidia could expand into the mobile market more. With how little presence Nvidia has in the mobile space, besides the Switch and a handful of devices, I can only see it as a good thing - Nvidia has a lot of tech that could benefit mobile hardware, and them getting more presence in that space will only be good for consumers.

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Nvidia are already brutish with OEMs and their GPU partners, giving them control over all the licensing for ARM across the world would likely be terrible for the global industry and innovation; those costs would eventually also make their way to consumers.

Theres also very little Nvidia could give to ARM, im guessing you think Nvidia will hand out their GPU architectures to SOC producers; however their actual business model is very against sharing like that, they're a very insular company that keeps their cards close to their chest.