No, apparently their foundries that are capable of making these cards aren't ready yet.
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No, apparently their foundries that are capable of making these cards aren't ready yet.
Miners are users beyond mining, they're not your average speculators who never pull their token from some big exchange. They're participants in the ecosystem the minute they have to set up a wallet to get the coins they mine.
Asides from BTC being POW still, one token who's market cap is being already challenged moving to POS isn't going to make GPU mining pointless. Especially since now the more popular Proof of Work algorithms have moved from algorithms supported by ASICs to algorithms supported by GPUs.
Speculators go where the action is, as long as there are promising projects based on proof of work there will be altcoins rising in price and making it profitable for miners.
And yes, literally right after ETH ratified the movement to proof of stake timelines, ETH classic moved promptly in price for an extended period of time.
And finally, there are currently other coins you can mine for a profit, assuming that a giant mining pool spreading out will make that no longer profitable is assuming those prices stay static. Right now ignoring BTC, the market cap of proof of work coins is more than 1/3 of the current ethmarket cap. Point being, there will be placers for miners to go, if it was an unassailable truth, things would have been winding down already.
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I'm in the same boat. I was tired of waiting for prices to come down so I got a 3080 for $1200 last week and now I only hope this whole situation is all gone by the time I need a new rig (2026 I guess)
What will continue?
Current situation with GPUs is 100% due to current GPU mining profitability.
It fell ~2 times in July and GPU prices fell ~4 times at the same moment.
If it will fall ~10 times with ETH2 then GPU prices will hit MSRPs.
Miners aren't interested in "pennies", those who are won't be getting 3080Tis for that, they'll stick to used 580s and such.
That's not how market works.
It's possible but that would imply a pricing adjustment for the most part and I don't see it happening just yet.
ETH2 merge is planned for 1Q22 at the moment. There are no reasons why GPU pricing would still be that inflated till 2023.
None of this is enough to make some random altcoin suddenly popular. Miners won't be able to sustain the inflated price, but what's even more important they won't be able to recoup their mining pools even with an inflated price because no GPU mineable coin on the market is even close to ETH in capitalization.
You realize a little over a year ago ETH's market cap was lower than the current market cap of several altcoins… Like yes ETH is pole position as the second project to BTC, but there's been more and more of a shift to other better scaling projects (Luckily mostly PoS alt coins). I think you're going to keep seeing a shift from ETH to other projects like we already are, let's just hope those are mostly PoS. Though there are several high value ones that are still PoW. These aren't random, and miners investing in their ecosystem just adds to their momentum.
given how close we are to 2.0 we would have seen a curve already, plenty of miners have already shifted to "the next" rising projects knowing they could continue to rise.
ETH market cap was never lower than any of the altcoins and comparing them this way makes zero sense - of course everything is up due to crypto valuation in general.
What you should be looking at is where GPU mining was back when ETH was at the market cap of current altcoin caps. And the answer is pretty simple - it was nowhere, it's effect on GPU pricing was zero.
Again, the shift will lead to 10X drop in mining profitability of said projects and have zero relation on their pricing since that is not decided by how many people are mining them.
Stop spreading misinformation. Cryptocoin price depends solely on how many real money has been put into it and has jack shit to do with miners of any sort.
What curve? ETH is still the most profitable coin for GPU mining and will remain so at current prices until it will stop being GPU mineable.
And since miners aren't exactly very bright people (as was highlighted by the crypto crash of 2018) they will continue to buy GPUs at whatever prices in hopes of recouping them somehow in the future. Has nothing to do with "next rising projects" especially since there are none.
They'll just migrate to the next ponzi scheme. Just because there's nothing out there now worth pursuing doesn't mean they won't all migrate to the next shit scheme once eth is no longer profitable. And if everyone jumps to the same scheme, it'll be the new scheme to mine.
The fact they are so dumb and this is a ponzi scheme benefiting the people who create this shit means there will forever be an endless supply of new dreams to sell.
I've spend two pages explaining why this won't happen.
The "schemes" won't appear out of thin air just because miners will need to migrate to them.
They didn't appear in 2018, they didn't appear back in June when ETH crashed a bit and they won't appear once ETH will switch to POS either.
Most miners who are buying GPUs at current prices right now will likely either loose money or have to spend several years to return this investment.
Nice, its a great card, I have one also! :)
Hope you have a GPU support stand, its got weight to it.
3080 Ti FTW3 can outbench a 3090 FE for gaming at $100 less because higher boost clock and better cooling. It's great.
I did, thanks!
Thanks for the tip, will look out for that.
Nice
Since you've been fine with just pulling things out of your ass and saying things didn't happen. Here you go, some proof of each of the things I'm claiming. I invite you to do the same.
Proof of Work as a Catalyst for Price Increase
Sources :
- Ethereum's Proof-of-Stake Positions Ethereum Classic as Most Attractive PoW Chain for Wealthy Miners ⋆ ZyCrypto
- Ethereum Classic Will Stand Out by Sticking With Proof of Work | Nasdaq
Not only was this well covered by financial news (motivating clueless investment), there was outrage in the mining community at moving to proof of stake, but there is also a direct increase in ETH Classic that never returned to normal prices with the announcement of Proof of Stake being ratified and put in motion.
A country's worth of power, no more! | Ethereum Foundation Blog
Check the date of the article and look at the price chart. Also, look at the articles in financial news.
There are alternatives to Ethereum that will be profitable.
Sources :
- The Bitmain Antminer E9 is the world's most powerful Etherium mining ASIC - NotebookCheck.net News.
- ASIC Proof POW algorithm – DYNAMO COIN
- X16R-Whitepaper.pdf (ravencoin.org)
- Mining | Ergo (ergoplatform.org)
- GPU profitability ranking - WhatToMine
- Ethereum price today, ETH to USD live, marketcap and chart | CoinMarketCap
- Avalanche raises $230 million from private sale of AVAX tokens | TechCrunch
- Algorand Security | Algorand
ETH 5.55
ERG $5.76
Ethash $5.52
Now going back just a little over a year ago, Ethereum was at a market cap commensurate with the projects listed above [6]. So they can still be well below the market cap of ethereum and grow 10x in MC, minimizing the impact of an increased mining pool.
Now the second bit of unpacking is that Ethereum will continue to be the dominant altcoin. For one, eth2.0 will still have higher gas fees, less security, and be much slower than several existing coins [7,8]; this is even true after implementing sharding. The good news is many of these challenger altcoins are proof of stake, but in some cases, there are tightly intertwined Proof of Work project within the ecosystem. For instance, ERGO mentioned above (ERG) is tightly integrated into Cardano (Number 3 market cap coin). Also, it's just starting to rise in value. A lot of the recent altcoin investing fervor has been around basically who will replace ETH as the blockchain you actually build decentralized applications on? All of this to say is proof of work does provide some value to projects that want to maximize security for even a layer 2 solution built on a layer one.
What will lower GPU demand?
Hopefully, I've somewhat made a better case that there really isn't a reason to lower demand in the current ecosystem because of the already started shift to ETH 2.0. That's not to say fewer PoW coins aren't going to help. Still, because it is an ASIC compatible PoW project with frankly outdated technology, the ETH 2.0 upgrade will not solve the problem. It has the same thing going for it as bitcoin in that it's just one of the originals, you can even imagine ETH becoming more of a value store project.
What will lower demand are security solutions and yield farming methods from popular new layer 1 and layer 2 solutions that rely on non-proof of work tokenomics, not an already asic dominated and outdated token switching to PoS when gainful other opportunities will exist.
Or foundries and shit will get their act together and they can print enough of these fucking things.
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Nothing of what you have quoted below is confirming this statement in any way or form. I'm sorry but it's not me who is pulling shit out of thin air here.
The rest is simply irrelevant. Nobody is arguing that there will still be POW coins and it is abundantly clear to anyone watching the scene for the last three to six months that ETH is the sole driver of current GPU prices.
Deal with it.
Figured you had nothing to support your claim except it being "abundantly clear" to people "watching" , considering I work in the space I guess I should "watch" instead of you know actually participating… Not really much to argue against "deal with it", so enjoy your unsubstantiated certitude.
Bold is always a good sign of someone knowing what they are talking about.
Let me repeat the fact which you're arguing: POW by itself has zero effect or relation on a cryptocoin price.
And yeah, if you've been actually watching the crypto scene then this fact wouldn't be that unknown to you and you certainly wouldn't argue with it.
My guess is that you're a miner who tries to pull reasons why your investment is a good idea out of thin air.
Nothing more to add.
I neither mine nor invest in PoW coins, I just know the market better than someone who only follows it superficially. And yeah I'd call trying to present evidence and walk you through an argument, working in the space professionally, knowing what you're talking about vs reductionist arguments built on false axioms and zero support or research. But at this point it seems like a reading comprehension problem so whatever.
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User Warned: Off-Topic Thread Derail over a Series of Posts
I'm sorry but I won't do "research" to prove that what I'm saying is a fact.
Because it's very much enough to know that there are no relation between ecoins prices and POW (or POS, or whatever).
And it is enough to just look at the BTC or ETH prices graph to know this. That is the extent of "research" needed to prove that what you're saying is factually incorrect.
Beyond that though you'd need to go into a deeper understanding of what a blockchain is and how "mining" is used in forming the consensus of a blockchain. And why the cost/price of a blockchain "unit" isn't in any way related to that at all - and can be and in fact in many cases is zero.
Feel free to educate yourself on these things.
User Warned: Off-Topic Thread Derail over a Series of Posts
I am literally a smart contract developer building decentralized exchanges and layer 2 solutions…. So what exactly makes you so confident? If you really even understood your comment about consensus of blockchain you'd be able to follow my point about decentralization pushing more promising new coins in their own right towards gpu mining algorithms vs asic algorithms, you'd understand that proof of work is still a valid solution to security which is why new projects use it, and beyond that the simple non tech economics of more people participating in an ecosystem raises its value. Every one of your arguments to this point is supported by "it's obvious" and nothing else.
Anybody heard any insight on the EVGA step-up program? i.e. has anybody in it gotten their cards?
I registered my 2070S on Sep 27, 2020 and got my first step-up email on December 7.
I registered my 2070S on Sep 27, 2020 and got my first step-up email on December 7.
On timing in general in a ****ed up way if you got a 2070 Super in Summer of 2019 and play at 1080p or even a 2080 Ti at 1440p despite being very expensive you're very lucky because you don't really need to upgrade any time soon. I'm somewhat salty I didn't wait an extra year or I'd be on a 9900K w/ a 2080 Ti (Vs my 2017 Custom-ordered PC w/ a 1080 Ti & 8700K) and not worry about performance right now. Honestly if as it's looking like RTX 4090 is like 2.2x over the 3090 (Greymon, RGT & Kopite7kimi as well IIRC) then the silly prices we're seeing for RTX 30 will look ridiculous. Even if RTX 4090 is pricey as hell (I think the 4090 won't have an higher MRSP but I think like a 20GB 4080 cut down further from a 4090 will be offically like 900 USD).
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Is the only way to get a 3080 at retail price currently finding out when a retailer like Best Buy is getting some cards and camping out? It's been a literal year since I intended to upgrade my 1080 TI and there's seemingly no end to these price hikes in sight.
i felt like such a clown in 2019, i had a 3570k/1080ti and was having motherboard/ram issues, so i ended up parting that system out and got a 9900k, a few months later i found a refurb aorus 2080ti for $999 and grabbed it. felt super guilty about that video card purchase since the 1080ti was/is still a good card, but i'm damn glad i did now that i see where we're at today. i play 3440 ultrawide and am still 99% happy with performance. honestly i'm terrified at what the MSRP of the 4000 series is going to look like -- hopefully DLSS will keep me relevant for a few more years
Best Buy is among your only options since they mainly sell FE cards. Other companies are either hiking prices and basically pre-scalping to a certain degree or their cards are just impossible to get. Or if you have a microcenter near you, some people have had luck with that.
I bought a card at pre-scalped MSRP and I had to fight bots to get it, so... better priced cards are going to be swallowed by the bots instantly.
There's the newegg shuffle of course, but your odds are very low. Still worth doing probably, it's the least time investment of any method.
I mean that's the thing, the 2080 Ti can be like 70% improvement over the 1080 Ti with DLSS 2.0 in a lot of cases. You're 9900K could last easily way into 2023 (Late 2023 has probably Zen 5 or Arrowlake both on TSMC N3) or even slightly beyond.
What's the "newegg shuffle"? A raffle/lottery system you can sign up for?
Every morning at 11AM ET Newegg has a list of GPUs that you can basically enter into a raffle for the privilege of buying. These are often bundled with another product Newegg is trying to offload that you must buy and cannot return separately. You just enter for the things you want, then they send you an email later in the day letting you know you weren't selected.
Sometimes the bundles are OK because hey it's a SSD or something I can use, sometimes they are trying to get rid of crap like the exploding gigabyte PSUs. Either way it doesn't really matter because the chance of being selected is remote. But unlike basically any other method, it respects your time at least. Some people on the internet seem to have no grasp of "time value of money" and so to them camping out in front of a Best Buy for 24 hours is fine (nevermind that the time you wasted is, in fact, money), but paying a little extra is a sicko move and you should feel bad.
Gainward and Galax confirm and launch GeForce RTX 3060 with GA104-150 GPU - VideoCardz.com
Gainward and Galax confirm RTX 3060 is getting a GA104 GPU Following a report from this week that NVIDIA is introducing GA104 GPU for RTX 3060 graphics cards, Galax and Gainward have both confirmed that this is indeed happening, but for now only in China. Gainward GeForce RTX 3060 with GA104...
videocardz.com
Pretty annoyed by the stores they selected for the PS5/Xbox drop yesterday. It didn't seem like there were more stores than the Nvidia drops, but they were much better distributed IMO. I would actually be interested in a BB store drop if they used that distribution map instead.
So I'm noticing at my Microcenter that over the course of about 2-3 months 3080s have only shown up on the truck once out of each of those months. Literally every other 30s series card is constantly showing up Ti or otherwise. Why are the 3080s in such sort supply compared to all other cards?
The 3080 is the only one that offers a significant boost over the Turing cards at a relatively decent price (assuming you buy at MSRP). That has made it a sort of "Holy Grail" compared to the cards above and below it, particularly for people who already have decent cards.
I've seen pretty much every current gen card in stock at my local Micro Center EXCEPT the 3080 since launch.
Surprisingly I was at opening one time where they had some ASUS 3080 tuffs, absolutely no one who came at opening wanted one. I was there for a strix or evga so I passed as well, but the other people weren't interested in specific brands, just model numbers and people were choosing 3080 Tis, over 3080s when asked what 30 card they wanted. I was actually shocked.
That is absurd. They really wanted to pay hundreds more for 10% extra performance? LOL
I think it's too good of a value for the money. Nvidia would rather sell their $1200-$1500 high end cards.
Anecdotal, but when I went to the Best Buy card drop, the 3080ti was the last card to go, because the value is so poor.
Thus far we've only had games which has *higher* texture and assets quality on PC than on the new consoles (Kena as a recent example), and these run fine on a 3080 despite it using true 4K instead of a dynamic ~1440p with upscaling.
So as of right now 10GBs of VRAM (and 16+ GBs of system RAM) is enough for 4K at console settings.
How fast PC versions will surpass console settings as a norm is hard to predict though. But with how GPU market is currently I won't be surprised to see graphics progress on PC to stagnate for a couple of years.
Best Buy just had a stealth third party card drop, still buggy as shit for me, yellow button turned into some verify button then when I clicked it it went to sold out. But it seems to reserve your item in cart when you do the verification process now at payment.
Oh that's cool. But yeah, it beats ebay definitely, I certainly don't want to buy from there.
Damn, had a 3070 clicked and I was forced to reset my password/verify my e-mail. Then I lost it. :/
What's the best way to get alerts for this kind of restock? I have a BB credit card I want to just throw it on tbh.
What's the best way to get alerts for this kind of restock? I have a BB credit card I want to just throw it on tbh.
