NPD - PS5 achieved the highest launch month unit and dollar sales for a video game hardware platform in U.S. history

Tigress · Dec 11, 2020

MrGiraffe said:
One way to look at latent demand is to see what aftermarket prices are like between PS5 and Xbox.

Are PS5 prices closing higher? If so, that's pretty uncontroversial proof of higher demand, even with lack of stock.

At least judging by ebay Playstation prices go from 900-1300 or so (most are around 900 but there are a few that went for over 1000). There may be a few under 900. I'd expect to try to find one around 950 (That is if I actually paid for a scalped console. For one I'm way too poor for that, if I hadn't lucked out and gotten one from PS direct I"d wait until I could get one retail price rather than buy on ebay. Second it seems a waste of money when eventually you will find one).

Xbox seems to be from 700 something to 850, maybe 900. I don't believe there are any that sold over 1000. Seems you should expect to pay around 850 for it. I

These are completed auctions.

Though in uncomplete auctions there is a PS5 auction (buy it now) asking for 2000 (saying it has already sold some...) and an xbox series x for 10,000 (really? I want to know what is going through that seller's head). So by that metric the PS5 is a steal ;).

A.M.R · Dec 11, 2020

It was obvious for me that Sony will have more supply than Microsoft.

- XSX has bigger die, that probably translate to less yield than PS5
- Microsoft waited to finalize RDNA2, & started mass manufacturing later than Sony.

It's all because of business decisions they made that lead to this which I can't fault. But was it worth it? time will tell, we haven't seen it yet.

FuturaBold · Dec 11, 2020

So theres a very good chance we'll see a PS6. And some say this will be the last hardware generation. Not with sales like these.

TheHunter · Dec 11, 2020

Vinc said:
Obviously that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying companies usually adjust production based on expected demand. I'm assuming the reason why the Xbox had less units available than PS5 is because the demand was projected to be lower. That is, unless they quite literally made as many as they possibly could and did absolutely everything in their power to produce at the absolute max capacity. But I don't subscribe to that line of thought. Xbox didn't meet demand, but they produced less than Sony for a variety of reasons, one of which has to be that the projected demand was lower.

I'm also aware that Phil Spencer said they waited for RDNA2 tech to be ready. But I'm also saying that if that's the sole reason they produced so many fewer consoles than the competition (which I'm sure it isn't), then they allowed themselves to make that decision because they felt they could still come reasonably close to meeting demand this year with the units that decision allowed them to produce.

I mean they clearly didn't meet demand so...yeah.

Again, Halo wouldn't have pushed more consoles. It's not like they stopped making them due to Halos delay 4 months before launch.

Dirtyshubb · Dec 11, 2020

Rick44-4 said:
I think we've learned by now that this place is not really a barometer of what general consumers want lol.

1000%

I learned a long time ago that many vocal people here have absolutely no understanding of this industry, consumer demand or marketing and can only extrapolate on their own personal desires/beliefs and assume everyone is like them.

Tigress · Dec 11, 2020

Teegs said:
I give them kudos for at least being mask off about it rather than the veiled bullshit you can see elsewhere around here.

Honestly I don't see something wrong with some one being enthusiastic about some product they like. It's a problem when they get obnoxious about it and especially always put down the competition while seeing no wrong in the product they like.

Of course, that could be cause I'm an admitted playstation fan girl ;) (I've said so before on this forum). But I try to be as objective as I can. But I admit I do like seeing Playstation do well.

Bear · Dec 11, 2020

So this is essentially just saying that more PS5s were produced than Series X/S. Alright.

PortisheadBiscuit · Dec 11, 2020

Vinc said:
The Xbox One gen really, really hurt the Xbox brand. They have a lot of work ahead of them, but they're in a good position to regain some momentum. Hard to overstate how monumental the Halo delay was for this year, it really is a very bad stumble out of the gate. I imagine the Series X would've done MUCH better if it had Halo, or frankly any killer next-gen game at all.

You can't sell what isn't available

watdaeff4 · Dec 11, 2020

Teegs said:
I give them kudos for at least being mask off about it rather than the veiled bullshit you can see elsewhere around here.

Agreed

Manmademan · Dec 11, 2020

Vinc said:
Obviously that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying companies usually adjust production based on expected demand. I'm assuming the reason why the Xbox had less units available than PS5 is because the demand was projected to be lower. That is, unless they quite literally made as many as they possibly could and did absolutely everything in their power to produce at the absolute max capacity. But I don't subscribe to that line of thought. Xbox didn't meet demand, but they produced less than Sony for a variety of reasons, one of which has to be that the projected demand was lower.

I'm also aware that Phil Spencer said they waited for RDNA2 tech to be ready. But I'm also saying that if that's the sole reason they produced so many fewer consoles than the competition (which I'm sure it isn't), then they allowed themselves to make that decision because they felt they could still come reasonably close to meeting demand this year with the units that decision allowed them to produce.

I largely agree. Projected worldwide demand likely has a lot to do with it. Sony will sell every PS5 they can crank out no matter where it goes in the world- but we are looking at anecdotal reports of piles of Series S sitting unsold in the EU.

And now that we mention it, MS having to split manufacturing between the S and the X also likely slowed down how fast they could make these. Sony only really has one effective SKU to make- there's a negligible difference between the disc and DE variants for 99% of production.

Vinc said:
The Xbox One gen really, really hurt the Xbox brand. They have a lot of work ahead of them, but they're in a good position to regain some momentum. Hard to overstate how monumental the Halo delay was for this year, it really is a very bad stumble out of the gate. I imagine the Series X would've done MUCH better if it had Halo, or frankly any killer next-gen game at all.

The Xbox One didn't hurt the brand. The Xbox One was fine, even with the launch missteps- Microsoft *sold out* every unit of the original Xbox One and was neck and neck with Sony for most of the year.

The mistake they made (and that most of the forum makes when talking about the Xbox) was assuming that they could hold on to the massive 24 million or so casual buyers that bought the 360 for Kinect. They couldn't. Without that Kinect audience, the 360 doesn't sell much more than the Xbox One did.

Hyun Sai · Dec 11, 2020

As shown in this thread, Microsoft will have it rough on the internet. If many of the enthusiasts in this forum can't see that Xbox sold out and was supply constrained, all we will see from the general populace is how PS5 won the war, again.

Too bad they could not produce more units for their main market, optics are important at the start of the generation.

Dirtyshubb · Dec 11, 2020

Tigress said:
Honestly I don't see something wrong with some one being enthusiastic about some product they like. It's a problem when they get obnoxious about it and especially always put down the competition while seeing no wrong in the product they like.

Of course, that could be cause I'm an admitted playstation fan girl ;) (I've said so before on this forum). But I try to be as objective as I can. But I admit I do like seeing Playstation do well.

I agree with this.

I'm a massive PlayStation fan but have been gaming since the Atari/C64 era and out of all of the current console makers I want Sony to do the best.

That's simply because for me they provide the best games and platform to serve my needs.

Doesn't mean I want Xbox and Nintendo to go out of business of course. But I don't particularly like eithers gaming output and if they are too successful it could have a negative effect on how Sony decided to go forward long term.

Ideal scenario for me is all companies are successful but Sony comfortably comes out on top so they are successful enough to continue doing and have enough pressure from the others to always be improving and not getting complacent.

Meus Renaissance · Dec 11, 2020

The Series X debuting less than the XB1 can only be explained by low supply.

RedOnePunch · Dec 11, 2020

illmatic22 said:
The struggling PS3 days ain't never coming back. They've got this thing figured out.

Even the struggling console sold A lot. Only the vita was a clear failure from a sales point of view.

Xbox games are available on PC. I didn't buy one because of that. I think that matters. I don't think MS cares as long as you subscribe to their service.

MrGiraffe · Dec 11, 2020

Tigress said:
At least judging by ebay Playstation prices go from 900-1300 or so (most are around 900 but there are a few that went for over 1000). There may be a few under 900. I'd expect to try to find one around 950 (That is if I actually paid for a scalped console. For one I'm way too poor for that, if I hadn't lucked out and gotten one from PS direct I"d wait until I could get one retail price rather than buy on ebay. Second it seems a waste of money when eventually you will find one).

Xbox seems to be from 700 something to 850, maybe 900. I don't believe there are any that sold over 1000. Seems you should expect to pay around 850 for it. I

These are completed auctions.

Though in uncomplete auctions there is a PS5 auction (buy it now) asking for 2000 (saying it has already sold some...) and an xbox series x for 10,000 (really? I want to know what is going through that seller's head). So by that metric the PS5 is a steal ;).

Interesting!

Unsold listings are probably not that informative, but selling more on the primary market then observing a higher clearing price in the secondary market is fairly robust evidence of higher demand for the PS5.

Arn · Dec 11, 2020

Vinc said:
The Xbox One gen really, really hurt the Xbox brand. They have a lot of work ahead of them, but they're in a good position to regain some momentum. Hard to overstate how monumental the Halo delay was for this year, it really is a very bad stumble out of the gate. I imagine the Series X would've done MUCH better if it had Halo, or frankly any killer next-gen game at all.

This is all conjecture though, because they've literally sold out. I think the level of excitement and share of voice on this forum would be higher, sure, but in terms of "MUCH better" in actual business terms they have sold out of the units they produced.

Considering where they've come back from since 2013 they're really getting into their stride. They've definitely had a huge drop in general awareness and engagement through last generation and it'll take more than one big title or one big hardware launch to get that back, especially when the alternative in PlayStation is doing really well, too. The Series X is my first Xbox since the 360 and I think it's an absurdly good combination of hardware and software (Game Pass).

Gotdatmoney · Dec 11, 2020

DontHateTheBacon said:
I would have thought that Microsoft would have launched this generation stronger than XB1, at least in the US, regardless of the pandemic honestly. Especially considering how they were the ones being praises every step of the way, until they showed Halo at least...

A little surprising to me, but congrats to Sony on a great launch in awkward times for this stuff. I suspect Microsoft will gain momentum with each passing quarter, as their first party studios ramp up and start delivering.

The Xbox One had a really big launch in the US. Its issue was sales safter launch really dropped off.

None of this launch sales matter at all. In this modern era you sell what you ship. What matters is sales 4 months after launch when all the hype dies off and the systems have to stand on their own 2 feet.

I think the Series X/S will drop softer than the One

BioDigital Jazzman · Dec 11, 2020

Confused Cheeseburger said:
Damn, some y'all really not even trying to conceal eh?

How does a long history of trolling only get 2 weeks

Manmademan · Dec 11, 2020

MrGiraffe said:
Interesting!

Unsold listings are probably not that informative, but selling more on the primary market then observing a higher clearing price in the secondary market is fairly robust evidence of higher demand for the PS5.

The Verge did an article a few days ago comparing the "actual final sales price" of PS5's and XSX's on the secondary market, not just unsold listings.

The true price of a PlayStation 5

How much are the PS5, Xbox Series X, RTX 3080 and RX 6800 actually worth?

www.theverge.com

The Disc based PS5 was selling for an average of $1024, with the DE clocking in at $990. The Series X was $835.

RedOnePunch · Dec 11, 2020

Taurus said:
You are a sad human being.

lol they're not unreasonable crazy fanboys. Give them a break.

TheZynster · Dec 11, 2020

Pranay said:
The main news is it outsold PS4 launch which was the highest launch

To me series X|S debuting lower than Xbox one is pretty crazy too.

You think you would allocate more to your biggest market

Jawbreaker · Dec 11, 2020

MrGiraffe said:
One way to look at latent demand is to see what aftermarket prices are like between PS5 and Xbox.

Are PS5 prices closing higher? If so, that's pretty uncontroversial proof of higher demand, even with lack of stock.

The PlayStation 5 is outselling the new Xbox consoles on the resale market at a rate of nearly 2-to-1, according to new data from StockX

More than 60,000 PlayStation 5 and Xbox consoles have been resold through StockX since launch, the company says — and the PS5 is much more popular.

www.businessinsider.com

With demand vastly outpacing supply, a robust resale market for the nascent consoles has sprung up: The $500 PS5 model is selling for around $900 on the resale site StockX as of Wednesday morning, while the $500 Xbox Series X is
selling for around $730.

Of those resales, Einhorn said, Sony's PlayStation 5 is outselling Microsoft's new Xbox consoles by a margin of nearly two-to-one. "Across all domestic and international versions (US, UK, and EU), the two PlayStation consoles (Blu-Ray and digital) have been the more popular choice on StockX," he said, "accounting for 62% of console sales to date, compared to 38% for the Xbox (Series X/S)."

Yeah, nothing controversial about it if you look at the numbers. The demand for PS5 is simply much higher than Xbox Series consoles.

Manmademan · Dec 11, 2020

TheZynster said:
To me series X|S debuting lower than Xbox one is pretty crazy too.

You think you would allocate more to your biggest market

The opposite, actually. The US market is largely saturated for them.

All of the growth is overseas. Allowing Sony to run up the score unchallenged in most of it again means they end up right back where they were with the XBO.

fiendcode · Dec 11, 2020

Toriko said:
Market leader being a Market leader

Yep. And with that 24 month streak too, truly a Lead Market Leader.

TheZynster · Dec 11, 2020

Manmademan said:
The opposite, actually. The US market is largely saturated for them.

All of the growth is overseas. Allowing Sony to run up the score unchallenged in most of it again means they end up right back where they were with the XBO.

Ah, so aim for the market that you want to gain....not the one you already know you are going to get sales from eventually anyways.

yes, I can see that

Vinc · Dec 11, 2020

TheHunter said:
I mean they clearly didn't meet demand so...yeah.

Again, Halo wouldn't have pushed more consoles. It's not like they stopped making them due to Halos delay 4 months before launch.

Halo would have certainly increased demand by quite a bit, and if the argument is that Sony just simply did a MUCH better job at meeting demand than Microsoft did due to having far greater production capacity, then the question becomes... how did MS drop the ball so badly?

I think both companies just had different projections, and while supply failed to meet demand in both cases, I don't think it's happenstance that MS produced less consoles.

As for Halo... I would certainly imagine they knew they were likely to delay it ahead of that time, and July is probably right around the time production started on the Series X.

I don't know, I think it would have been absolutely insane for Microsoft to knowingly produce fewer units than the Xbox One if they had a highly anticipated Halo game at launch.

Arn said:
This is all conjecture though, because they've literally sold out. I think the level of excitement and share of voice on this forum would be higher, sure, but in terms of "MUCH better" in actual business terms they have sold out of the units they produced.

Considering where they've come back from since 2013 they're really getting into their stride. They've definitely had a huge drop in general awareness and engagement through last generation and it'll take more than one big title or one big hardware launch to get that back, especially when the alternative in PlayStation is doing really well, too. The Series X is my first Xbox since the 360 and I think it's an absurdly good combination of hardware and software (Game Pass).

I agree with you, but when I try to think of the reasons why they produced fewer units than Xbox One did, I can only really imagine that it came down to expecting lower demand. If that's not the case, are we blaming Covid or parts availability? And if we are, how come it didn't seem to affect their competition when both consoles are so similar?

Jawbreaker · Dec 11, 2020

fiendcode said:
Yep. And with that 24 month streak too, truly a Lead Market Leader.

This is such a fruitless argument. You can both be right depending on how you define what a market leader is. Let's be happy both companies are killing it right now.

cakely · Dec 11, 2020

Congratulations, Sony. I'm impressed that they were able to manufacture as many units as they did.

I would like to say "I did my part", but I still haven't found one available to purchase. Demand for the PS5 is obviously very, very high and social media and SNL skits reflect that. I would guess that Sony will sell every unit they manufacture until Spring or longer.

I'm also surprised that Microsoft had less supply in the US than they did for the Xbox One launch. I would have expected the opposite.

Manmademan · Dec 11, 2020

TheZynster said:
Ah, so aim for the market that you want to gain....not the one you already know you are going to get sales from eventually anyways.

yes, I can see that

Bingo. launching at least *something* in territories where you have no market presence assures at least some growth. And that's what MS really needs to do here. Getting into the trenches with Sony in the US and not expanding outside of it in a meaningful way is a losing strategy.

Toriko · Dec 11, 2020

fiendcode said:
Yep. And with that 24 month streak too, truly a Lead Market Leader.

I was talking about the market leader that is earning the maximum revenue in the gaming industry though..

Jawbreaker · Dec 11, 2020

Toriko said:
I was talking about the market leader that is earning the maximum revenue in the gaming industry though..

Read my post above. This argument is really petty and fruitless.

Manmademan · Dec 11, 2020

Jawbreaker said:
Read my post above. This argument is really petty and fruitless.

agreed.

fiendcode · Dec 11, 2020

Toriko said:
I was talking about the market leader that is earning the maximum revenue in the gaming industry though..

Oh by wealth, not units. Didn't realize you were a fan of the Electoral College. 🙃

Bruceleeroy · Dec 11, 2020

Bobbyleejones said:
Let me think....... the pandemic

If it was the pandemic wouldn't Sony have undersold as well

Toriko · Dec 11, 2020

fiendcode said:
Oh by wealth, not units. Didn't realize you were a fan of the Electoral College. 🙃

It will be units in due time too when stock increases. I mean its not like it had the biggest console launch of all time or anything.

Anyhow In the business world wealth is what matters to these companies in the end.

Anyhow I will stop. It is clearly derailing and I think I touched an obvious nerve lol

Mung · Dec 11, 2020

Manmademan said:
Bingo. launching at least *something* in territories where you have no market presence assures at least some growth. And that's what MS really needs to do here. Getting into the trenches with Sony in the US and not expanding outside of it in a meaningful way is a losing strategy.

Yes but this strategy only works if you don't lose ground to your competitor in your strongest market ;) So surely it can't assure growth.

Manmademan · Dec 11, 2020

Bruceleeroy said:
If it was the pandemic wouldn't Sony have undersold as well

It's obviously not the pandemic. Consoles have been selling out all year as people have been stuck at home.

Just for kicks I went to see what the retail price of a PS4 slim was. Gamestop is still selling them for $299, new. And they're the only major retailer i could find selling them new. Everyone else is sold out.

The PS4 launched at $399 *seven years ago*.

Mung said:
Yes but this strategy only works if you don't lose ground to your competitor in your strongest market ;) So surely it can't assure growth.

They aren't losing ground. The PS5 is sold out in the US. It's virtually all people already invested in the PS ecosystem that are buying those. Right now MS and Sony are in the same place in the US- neither one has any more systems to sell, so hardcore fans and casuals alike are both waiting.

You expand your market by giving people that are in Sony only territories (or majority Sony only territories) an alternative to buy where they did not have one before when that system is sold out.

GamerDude · Dec 11, 2020

I'm assuming MS would have sold all of the stock if they had the same number of Series consoles as PS5s available. So isn't this just saying that Sony managed to produce more PS5s for the US?

Zelas · Dec 11, 2020

Great. Hopefully that's enough people to get Sony to make some OS improvements before this year is over.

KillingJoke · Dec 11, 2020

Not going to lie, legit shocked about Xbox. I thought they would have produced enough to beat One easily. Especially since NA is their main market. I expected everyone to go over a million.

shadowsdarknes · Dec 11, 2020

Bobbyleejones said:
Let me think....... the pandemic

The pandemic has been very kind to the video game industry in terms of sales.

Thiago · Dec 11, 2020

VanCityGamer said:
I'm assuming MS would have sold all of the stock if they had the same number of Series consoles as PS5s available. So isn't this just saying that Sony managed to produce more PS5s for the US?

All Piscatella is saying is that the PS5 had the biggest launch of all time in the US.

Darkkahn · Dec 11, 2020

What a monster!

Linkeds2 · Dec 11, 2020

Is consumer spending per console naturally low for Xbox primarily because of gamepass (and lack of launch games) and the debut of a 300$ console alongside a 500$ console?

fiendcode · Dec 11, 2020

Toriko said:
It will be units in due time too when stock increases. I mean its not like it had the biggest console launch of all time or anything.

Anyhow In the business world wealth is what matters to these companies in the end.

Anyhow I will stop. It is clearly derailing and I think I touched an obvious nerve lol

Touched a nerve and a bow out. Classic.

You're right, if only all consoles weren't supply constrained we'd really see something... as is though you'll have to settle being the Bush/Trump Market Leader. Money talks.

GiantEnemyCrab · Dec 11, 2020

So paid online and 80€ games seem to be not much of a problem, eh?

shadowsdarknes · Dec 11, 2020

Zelas said:
Great. Hopefully that's enough people to get Sony to make some OS improvements before this year is over.

The OS will continuously see improvements throughout the generation just like most other systems.
Sales figures aren't going to alter the timeline of them making improvements.

Nothing in the OS is particularly dire, either. It plays games, its snappy, its easy to take and share photos, and accessing games and media is easy.

fiendcode said:
Touched a nerve and a bow out. Classic.

You're right, if only all consoles weren't supply constrained we'd really see something... as is though you'll have to settle being the Bush/Trump Market Leader. Money talks.

Political references attempting to draw parallels to the games industry seldom land as nicely as one might think.
This is nothing like the electoral college.

Dirtyshubb · Dec 11, 2020

GiantEnemyCrab said:
So paid online and 80€ games seem to be not much of a problem, eh?

Paid online hasn't been a problem since it was introduced, at least not for a significant amount of consumers.

JABEE · Dec 11, 2020

Companies usually are conservative with their production runs when they don't expect to sell them. I guess the question is if the constraint was the time to get these produced or if they didn't think they would sell more.

It's interesting when this is a combined Series with one of the consoles launching at $200 cheaper than the Xbox One X.

What was the unit sales for Xbox One at launch? This would mean that the Series S and Series X combined to sell less than Xbox One

Toriko · Dec 11, 2020

fiendcode said:
Touched a nerve and a bow out. Classic.

You're right, if only all consoles weren't supply constrained we'd really see something... as is though you'll have to settle being the Bush/Trump Market Leader. Money talks.

WTF are you on about with your bush/trump comparisons. Stop equating debating video game consoles sales with Trump for fuck sake. One of the weirdest fanboy responses. Dont ever compare me with that orange haired idiot just because I think a particular console manufacturer is a market leader. Like what the hell.

shadowsdarknes said:
Political references attempting to draw parallels to the games industry seldom land as nicely as one might think.
This is nothing like the electoral college.

The poster is nuts.

NPD - PS5 achieved the highest launch month unit and dollar sales for a video game hardware platform in U.S. history

Bold Bur3n Wrangler

Election Thread Watcher

Prophet of Truth

Election Thread Watcher

Election Thread Watcher

Election Thread Watcher

Election Thread Watcher

Election Thread Watcher

One Winged Slayer