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Welfare

Prophet of Truth - You’re my Numberwall
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,912
Hello! This wall of numbers will be comparing the weekly average of October and November. Both months are 4 weeks long, but November is the 2nd biggest month of the year in terms of total sales and the biggest month when it comes to weekly average thanks to Black Friday week. I have gathered high selling software and any hardware deals for November to help show how the month might be impacted. You can go to previous prediction threads for the previous month's potential impacts.

Code:
2012

Xbox 360 October: 270K / 4 = 67,500
Xbox 360 November: 1.259M / 4 = 314,750

Weekly average +366%

PS3 October: 170K / 4 = 42,500
PS3 November: 762K / 4 = 190,500

Weekly average +348%

3DS October: 245K / 4 = 61,250
3DS November: 540K / 4 = 135,000

Weekly average +120%

Notable Events in November

Xbox 360
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$149 4GB / $199 250GB Bundles / $199 4GB Kinect Bundle]

Call of Duty: Black Ops II [2 weeks] [4.53M]
Halo 4 [3 weeks] [3.2M]
Assassin's Creed III [4 weeks]

PS3
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$199 250GB Bundle]

Call of Duty: Black Ops II [2 weeks] [2.87m]
Assassin's Creed III [4 weeks]

3DS
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals

Code:
2013

Xbox 360 October: 166K / 4 = 41,500
Xbox 360 November: 647K / 4 = 161,750

Weekly average +290%

PS3 October: 119K / 4 = 29,750
PS3 November: 407K / 4 = 101,750

Weekly average +242%

3DS October: 452K / 4 = 113,000
3DS November: 741K / 4 = 185,250

Weekly average +64%

Notable Events in November

Xbox 360 
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$99 4GB / $189 250GB Bundles / $189 4GB Kinect Bundle]

Call of Duty: Ghosts [4 weeks] [>3.3M]

PS3
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$149 12GB Bundle / $199 250GB Bundles]

Call of Duty: Ghosts [4 weeks] [>1.8M]

3DS
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals

The Legend of Zelda: A Link between Worlds Special Themed Gold + Black XL bundle $219 [2 weeks] [125K]

The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds [2 weeks] [280K]

Code:
2014

Xbox One October: 168K / 4 = 42,000
Xbox One November: 1.231M / 4 = 307,750

Weekly average +632%

PS4 October: 297K / 4 = 74,250
PS4 November: 831K  / 4 = 207,750

Weekly average +180%

3DS October: 138K / 4 = 34,500
3DS November: 515K / 4 = 128,750

Weekly average +273%

Xbox 360 October: 63K / 4 = 15,750
Xbox 360 November: 306K / 4 = 76,500

Weekly average +386%

PS3 October: 35K / 4 = 8,750
PS3 November: 89K  / 4 = 22,250

Weekly average +154%

Notable Events In November

Xbox One
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$329 500GB Bundles]

Assassin's Creed: Unity 500GB bundle $349 [4 weeks] [<829K]
Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare 1TB bundle $499 [4 weeks] [200K]

Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare [4 weeks] [<1.195M]
Halo MCC [3 weeks] [>660K]
Grand Theft Auto V [2 weeks] [>517K]
Far Cry 4 [2 weeks] [214K]
Dragon Age Inquisition [2 weeks] [<192K]

PS4
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$399 500GB Bundle]

GTAV + The Last of Us 500GB Bundle $399 [1 week] [340K]

Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare [4 weeks] [<1.110M]
Grand Theft Auto V [2 weeks] [>583K]
Far Cry 4 [2 weeks] [281K]
Dragon Age Inquisition [2 weeks] [<258K]

3DS
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals

Crystal Blue 2DS $99 [2 weeks]
Crystal Red 2DS $99 [2 weeks]
Persona Q Special Themed Black XL bundle $199 [Gamestop] [1 week]

Pokémon Alpha Sapphire [2 weeks]
Pokémon Omega Ruby [2 weeks]
[Total = 1.5M]

Xbox 360
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$99 4GB / $179 4GB Kinect Bundle / $199 500GB Bundle]

Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare [4 weeks] [<1.238M]
Far Cry 4 [2 weeks] [~120K]

PS3
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$249 500GB Bundles]

Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare [4 weeks] [<725.7K]

Code:
2015

Xbox One October: 303K / 4 = 75,750
Xbox One November: 1.296M / 4 = 324,000

Weekly average +327%

PS4 October: 275K / 4 = 68,750
PS4 November: 1.539M  / 4 = 384,750

Weekly average +460%

3DS October: 110K / 4 = 27,500
3DS November: 350K / 4 = 87,500

Weekly average +218%

Notable Events in November

Xbox One
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$299 500GB Bundles / $349 1TB Bundles]

Gears of War UE 500GB White bundle $349 [Walmart] [4 weeks]
Fallout 4 1TB Bundle $399 [3 weeks] [158K]
Tomb Raider 1TB Bundle $399 [Best Buy + MS Store] [4 weeks]
Xbox One Elite Bundle $499 [Gamestop + MS Store] [4 weeks]

Call of Duty Black Ops 3 [4 weeks] [1.948M]
Fallout 4 [3 weeks] [<1.116M]
Star Wars Battlefront [2 weeks] [843K]
Rise of Tomb Raider [3 weeks] [176K]

PS4
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$299 500GB Bundles]

Star Wars Battlefront 500GB Bundle $349 / Limited Bundle $399 [2 weeks] [375K]
Black Ops 3 1TB Bundle $429 [4 weeks] [251K]

Call of Duty Black Ops 3 [4 weeks] [1.902M]
Fallout 4 [3 weeks] [<1.264M]
Star Wars Battlefront [2 weeks] [883K]

3DS
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [3DS XL Bundle $129 / $179 New 3DS XL]

Code:
2016

Xbox One October: 303K / 4 = 82,250
Xbox One November: 1.007M / 4 = 251,750

Weekly average +206%

PS4 October: 235K / 4 = 58,750
PS4 November: 1.112M  / 4 = 278,000

Weekly average +373%

3DS October: 123K / 4 = 30,750
3DS November: 556K / 4 = 139,000

Weekly average +352%

Notable Events in November

Xbox One
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$249 500GB Bundles / $299 1TB Bundles]

Free game with any Xbox One purchased [9 days: November 4 - November 12]

Xbox One S Battlefield 1 500GB Stormy Grey Limited bundle $299 [Wal-Mart/MS Store] [4 weeks]
Xbox One S Gears of War 4 500GB Deep Blue Limited bundle $299 [Gamestop/MS Store] [4 weeks]

Call of Duty Infinite Warfare [4 weeks]

PS4
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$249 500GB Bundles]

Call of Duty Infinite Warfare free with every PS4 [2 days: November 4 - November 5]

PS4 Pro 1TB $399 [3 weeks] [~260K]

Call of Duty Infinite Warfare [4 weeks]

3DS
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [2DS $79 / New 3DS Bundle $99]

Pokémon Sun [2 weeks]
Pokémon Moon [2 weeks]

Code:
2017

Switch October: 290K / 4 = 72,500
Switch November: 775K / 4 = 193,750

Weekly average +167%

Xbox One October: 129K / 4 = 32,250
Xbox One November: 1.38M / 4 = 345,000

Weekly average +970%

PS4 October: 211K / 4 = 52,750
PS4 November: 1.69M  / 4 = 422,500

Weekly average +701%

Notable Events in November

Switch
Increased supply for the holidays / Black Friday

Xbox One
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$189 500GB / $229 500GB Bundles / $299 1TB Bundles]
500GB Bundles $249 w/ free game Nov 13 - Nov 18 [1 week]

Xbox One X 1TB $499 [3 weeks] [~430K]

Call of Duty WWII [4 weeks]
Star Wars Battlefront II [2 weeks]

PS4
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$199 1TB]

Call of Duty WWII Camo 1TB Bundle $299 [4 weeks]
Star Wars Battlefront II 1TB Bundle $299 [2 weeks]
PS4 Pro Star Wars Battlefront II 1TB Limited Bundle $449 [2 weeks]

Call of Duty WWII [4 weeks]
Star Wars Battlefront II [2 weeks]

Code:
2018 October Weekly Averages

PS4: 342K / 4 = 85,500
Switch: 255K  / 4 = 63,750
Xbox One: 212K / 4 = 53,000

Notable Events in November

Switch
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals / [$299 Bundle]

*NEW* Cyber Monday

Xbox One
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$199 1TB Bundle / $229 1TB Bundles / $399 One X / $429 One X Bundles]

*NEW* Cyber Monday

Xbox One S Battlefield V 1TB Bundle $299 [3 weeks]
Xbox One X Battlefield V 1TB Bundle $499 [3 weeks]
Xbox One X Battlefield V 1TB Gold Rush Bundle $499 [Best Buy] [3 weeks]
Xbox One X Fallout 76 1TB Bundle $499 [3 weeks]

Fallout 76 [3 weeks]
Battlefield V [2 weeks]

PS4
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$199 1TB Bundle]

PS4 Slim Spider-Man 1TB Bundle $199 [2 weeks] * Black Friday Bundle
PS4 Slim Call of Duty Black Ops 4 1TB Bundle $299 [1 week]

*NEW* Cyber Monday

Fallout 76 [3 weeks]
Battlefield V [2 weeks]

Notes
November is enormous. It's expected that every console will jump by around +200% (3x) or more from October.*

*3DS is an exception.

For the first time since 2007, Cyber Monday week is now in November tracking. That has been a "December Week" for a decade, so the sales potential for the end of November is high.

Below is a collection of known/extrapolated Black Friday week numbers from last generation.

Code:
Sales / % of November Sales

Xbox 360
2005: 326,000 (Launch)
2007: 310,000 / 40%
2008: 388,000 / 46%
2011: 960,000 / 57%
2012: 750,000 / 60%

PS3
2007: ~155,000 / ~33% (Xbox claims 360:PS3 was 2:1)
2008: ~129,000 / ~34% (Xbox claims 360:PS3 was 3:1)
2009: 440,000 / 62%
2012: 525,000 / 69%

Wii
2006: 476,000 (Launch)
2007: 350,000 / 36%
2008: 800,000 / 39%
2009: 550,000 / 44%
2010: 600,000 / 47%
2011: +500,000 / +58% (500K just on Black Friday, whole week unknown)
2012: 300,000 / 71%

3DS
2012: 250,000 / 46%

Unfortunately, no more numbers were given during the 8th gen other than the Xbox One having the 2nd best Black Friday in Xbox history in 2015 (+22% from BF 2014 / +750K). The DS has once sold ~1M units during Black Friday 2009 and the Gameboy Advance did around that (over a 10 day period) in 2002.

Switch also was announced to have surpassed the Wii's best Thursday-Monday 5 day period which covers Black Friday and Cyber Monday, and that Switch was up +115% from that same period in 2017.

Xbox
Xbox loves the holiday season. Continually sells massive numbers in November, usually over 4 times as much as October.

Xbox One has had both the largest and lowest rises for the Xbox brand since 2012. A massive +970% in 2017, nearly 1000%, thanks to the launch of the Xbox One X with >430K sold, accompanied by Call of Duty WW2 and Star Wars Battlefront 2 (Comparing One S sales in November to October, that's a rise of +636% which is still bigger than the 2014 rise) and +206% in 2016, following a big October thanks to Gears of War 4 and Battlefield 1 and a disappointing November software lineup.

2018 is not looking like a great month on paper. The most important part of the month, the price, is pretty much an equal value to 2017's offerings. To put some context why that matters I'm going to post Xbox 360 and PS3 2011 November sales and their Black Friday deals along with their 2012 sales.

Code:
Xbox 360 November 2011: 1.688M / 4 = 422,000
Xbox 360 November 2012: 1.259M / 4 = 314,750

Xbox 360 2011
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$149 4GB / $199 4GB Kinect Bundle]

Xbox 360 2012
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$149 4GB / $199 250GB Bundles / $199 4GB Kinect Bundle]

PS3 November 2011: 894K / 4 = 223,500
PS3 November 2012: 762K / 4 = 190,500

PS3 2011
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$199 160GB Bundle]

PS3 2012
Numerous Monthly / Black Friday Deals [$199 250GB Bundle]

Even with 2012 matching and technically beating 2011 on offers, both consoles consoles dropped by double digits. This can easily be seen by comparing the 360's Black Friday sales for both years.

Besides price, 2018 does not have good software launches that sell consoles. The only two major launches are Fallout 76 and Battlefield V, both of which have not had the best reception or sales going by other regions and price promotions just after launch. 2016 had a better November with just Call of Duty Infinite Warfare and Modern Warfare Remastered, and both the PS4 and XB1 were down from 2015 because of that offering.

The only saving grace for the month is Cyber Monday, but that isn't going to magically boost systems up YOY if the first two weeks of the month are dreadful. Remember, the Xbox One had an October weekly average of 53,000 with the launches of Black Ops 4 and Red Dead Redemption 2, the two biggest launches of the year. Will the first 2 weeks of November really outperform that thanks to Fallout 76, which launched week 2?

PlayStation
PlayStation tends to do well throughout the year, so sometimes the boost in November isn't as big as Xbox. However, now that the PS4 is the market leader and picked up the marketing/bundle rights to titles such as Call of Duty, sales in November have improved over the 7th gen.

The PS4 had an average 2014 increase with +180% but then in 2015 they had the largest games bundled with the PS4 and a $50 price drop from October, leading to the largest rise since 2011 except for the Xbox One increase in 2014 with +460%. 2016 had the launch of the PS4 Pro which helped increase sales +373%. 2017 had the first $199 deal for the system and that along with COD WW2 and Battlefront 2 pushed units by +701%.

As pointed out in the Xbox section, even though the Black Friday deals are "better", the price hasn't changed from 2017. That isn't too big of a deal for PS4 this year as it seems the bundle sold but the question is then "Did Sony ship more than last year?".

Something that will affect PS4 is the software comparison to 2017. PS4 had the COD WW2 limited bundle along with two Battlefront 2 bundles. 2018 has no equivalent before Black Friday week, and they launched a standard Black Ops 4 bundle after Cyber Monday. Fallout 76 and Battlefield V are pretty weak compared to the 2017 and even 2016 offerings.

Like everyone else this year, Cyber Monday is the only week that can help a sales comparison to last year.

Nintendo
The 3DS averages a rise of +205% with the smallest rise being +64% (2013) and the largest rise being +352% (2016).

Switch looks to be a big winner for November given 2017 sales. Nothing notable launched that month, no special Black Friday deals, and it still sold an incredible amount. PS4 sold 831K in 2014 with big names like Call of Duty, GTA, etc., and a big GTA + Last of Us BF bundle. With Pokemon and an actual bundle with Mario Kart 8 Deluxe at $299 in addition with Nintendo's PR on Black Friday sales, Switch is going to sell over 1M this month.

Recap
November is the second biggest month of the year so everyone will see big boosts.

The biggest November ever recorded in the 7th gen was the Wii with 2,040,000 back in 2008. Second biggest? Xbox 360 with 1,688,000 in 2011.

The biggest November ever recorded in the 8th gen was the PS4 with 1,690,000 in 2017. Second biggest? PS4 again with 1,539,000 in 2015.
 

mrfusticle

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,548
I know I'm farting in the wind but Nintendo and Sony/Microsoft are so divergent in their hardware that its getting weird to compare them..
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
I know I'm farting in the wind but Nintendo and Sony/Microsoft are so divergent in their hardware that its getting weird to compare them..
Nintendo's hardware and games catalog is closer to Sony and Microsoft's than it has been in over a decade. It really is the same market for these platforms, you buy them in the same place in a store and for the same reasons. Hybrid isn't really that different from just a console, there was the psone, that was a battery short of having a similar function.
 

Psrock1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
657
I seriously don't see how the Switch can affect PS4 or PS5 sales except maybe in Japan. Why does Era act like the Switch is more successful than the PS4 when all support goes PS4.
What my issue was is that Sony in the last few years have lost connection with it's base, I don't feel the communication from them. It would have been nice to release something just as confusing as Nintendo.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
I seriously don't see how the Switch can affect PS4 or PS5 sales except maybe in Japan. Why does Era act like the Switch is more successful than the PS4 when all support goes PS4.
What my issue was is that Sony in the last few years have lost connection with it's base, I don't feel the communication from them. It would have been nice to release something just as confusing as Nintendo.
That isn't my point, my point is that Sony could be worried about Switch in about a year and a half, if Switch is in fact selling faster than the ps4 did. Someone asked what would they be worried about and I answered "perception". Don't worry, PS5 will still sell likely 100 Million+ consoles, that wasn't the point.
Era isn't acting as some hivemind, Switch is extremely successful, and is currently selling as fast as the PS4 did. What Nintendo chooses to do with that success, will change the landscape of the current gaming market. Right now, Sony is the only one who can hurt the PS5's sales, and while they have been sucking lately in terms of their relationship with gamers, I don't think it's time to panic.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,748
BTW, I'm a chess player (Which is why I'm thinking so far out), not a console warrior. I'm not saying Sony is in trouble, selling 100M+ consoles every roll of the dice, that is still a major success that will keep Sony going as long as they want to be in this race.

What if Nintendo gets too ahead too early and gives Sony an opening to en passant and stab them in the back?
 

Unkindled

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,247
[PS4] 1690k
[NSW] 1380k
[XB1] 1050k

Might edit near the end as more info comes. but this is how I see it right now.
 

mrfusticle

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,548
Nintendo's hardware and games catalog is closer to Sony and Microsoft's than it has been in over a decade. It really is the same market for these platforms, you buy them in the same place in a store and for the same reasons. Hybrid isn't really that different from just a console, there was the psone, that was a battery short of having a similar function.
Well yeah, software wise .. like a pc can have the same software as a smartphone but no-one compares those two in terms of hardware sales
 

Liabe Brave

Professionally Enhanced
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,672
...if Nintendo hits it's 20 Million goal for the year, it will be a faster selling system launch aligned....
At the end of March, it will be beyond PS4's 3rd holiday, launch aligned.
How to tell people are being disingenuous, or not paying attention to their own statements: something stated as a hypothetical in one post is assumed to be true a couple posts later.

If they hit their shipment target, Switch will be just barely ahead launch-aligned, with a lower average price.

Also, while PS4 might have the crown for second best selling home console platform of all time, Switch is in a trajectory where they might not only caught up, but take that crown a couple years afterwards.
Even it weren't impossible by definition, this would be very unlikely. Nintendo's hardware approach has relied on platform turnover.

Given AMD's issues with competing with Nvidia, I don't think people will find a Sony handheld compelling. If Nintendo is releasing a Switch Pro, I don't really think there is a company that can release anything in a similar form factor that is as powerful as what Nvidia could do, so it's a really tough position that Sony is in with chasing Switch's market.
Exactly why couldn't Sony also use Nvidia as a supplier?

And also here's another move from "if Nintendo..." to "Sony is in" a tough position, no subjunctive.

It can also hurt the PS5 adoption, limit games that can come out for the family of systems....
How would the existence of a Nintendo handheld lower the number of games that came out for a Sony family of handheld plus home console? Why wouldn't both handheld platforms feed each other by creating a larger overall base for third-party publishers to target?

BTW, I'm a chess player (Which is why I'm thinking so far out)....
Then you'll get this analogy: the scenario you're painting for Switch is like saying, "Ten moves from now Carlsen could have six queens on the board. His opponent is in deep trouble."
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,897
Damn....

But yeah, Matt has even spoke on how Switch is more complimentary to the other systems (especially PS4), so this idea that Switch will interfere with PS seems more like hoping that will be the case.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
How to tell people are being disingenuous, or not paying attention to their own statements: something stated as a hypothetical in one post is assumed to be true a couple posts later.

If they hit their shipment target, Switch will be just barely ahead launch-aligned, with a lower average price.
"...if Nintendo hits it's 20 Million goal for the year, it will be a faster selling system launch aligned...." -Talking about sales numbers
"At the end of March, it will be beyond PS4's 3rd holiday, launch aligned." -Talking about date/length of time.

Even it weren't impossible by definition, this would be very unlikely. Nintendo's hardware approach has relied on platform turnover.
Just because it's name is Switch? Nintendo handhelds sell well, this one particularly well. It's also a home console and is finding a new market there as well. We'll see where it ends, but if Nintendo doesn't drop a successor on the Switch, and it continues to sell, there is every chance that it passes PS4's LTD. Though I'm talking about this possible reality 18 months from now, with a possible LTD over 62 Million after FY2019.


Exactly why couldn't Sony also use Nvidia as a supplier?

And also here's another move from "if Nintendo..." to "Sony is in" a tough position, no subjunctive.
Sony could possibly use Nvidia, though the chance of them doing so is slim. Their architecture is built around AMD, Sony going with Nvidia just to beat out a Switch Pro that is being replaced just a couple of years later with a more powerful version, and Sony's history with the Vita, it's bleek for Sony to get back into the handheld market. As for "if Nintendo" Nintendo owns this market and Sony has been laughed out of it, there is an uphill battle, a PS4 portable? well sure that would have support out of the box, but PS5 would suffer, which is my next point, but before I go there... Nintendo has already mentioned that for Switch to stay successful, they need to keep releasing new hardware, as competition is already coming out to challenge the current Switch.


How would the existence of a Nintendo handheld lower the number of games that came out for a Sony family of handheld plus home console? Why wouldn't both handheld platforms feed each other by creating a larger overall base for third-party publishers to target?
*Sony handheld. Sony's handheld would hurt the PS5, if it's successful, it drains sales from would be PS5 owners/people buying a second system. If it's not successful, it's still a distraction, which pulls resources, limits the games (via both scope and pulling exclusives) Vita 2 won't work.

Then you'll get this analogy: the scenario you're painting for Switch is like saying, "Ten moves from now Carlsen could have six queens on the board. His opponent is in deep trouble."
Well yeah, this is why you only take one turn at a time.
Damn....

But yeah, Matt has even spoke on how Switch is more complimentary to the other systems (especially PS4), so this idea that Switch will interfere with PS seems more like hoping that will be the case.
This is not about real numbers, or real effect on Playstation, it's about what Sony might worry about in terms of Perception. That is all my post was about, but a lot of people have to defend Sony, like there is a battle to win here, it's just an observation via their own comments and their own insecurities about losing "the crown".
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Ah nice, we're back at the "lower price vs extra holiday" debate again, been a while since we rehashed that conversation!
This is why Nintendo needs to hit their numbers, then the debate over extra holiday goes mute. As for cheaper price, sure that has an effect on sales, but it's also a pretty poor contributor imo. There is more value in an item on sale for $199 than for that product to be $199.

If price was so important, a gamecube with Mariokart for $99 would have slain while everyone else was at least $50 to $100 more expensive.
 

Zedark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,719
The Netherlands
This is why Nintendo needs to hit their numbers, then the debate over extra holiday goes mute. As for cheaper price, sure that has an effect on sales, but it's also a pretty poor contributor imo. There is more value in an item on sale for $199 than for that product to be $199.

If price was so important, a gamecube with Mariokart for $99 would have slain while everyone else was at least $50 to $100 more expensive.
Well, yeah, but on the other hand, if you start at a higher price, then you have more opportunities to produce those sale/price cut moments. Whether Switch will suffer in terms of legs compared to PS4 as a result of this will have to be shown in the long run, I think, as one could argue either way at this point in time. Clearly you can't reduce a system's legs purely to its ability to drop price, and other factors like revisions, long term software support and possibly other things are important to take into account, making any long term prediction tenuous at best imo.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Well, yeah, but on the other hand, if you start at a higher price, then you have more opportunities to produce those sale/price cut moments. Whether Switch will suffer in terms of legs compared to PS4 as a result of this will have to be shown in the long run, I think, as one could argue either way at this point in time. Clearly you can't reduce a system's legs purely to its ability to drop price, and other factors like revisions, long term software support and possibly other things are important to take into account, making any long term prediction tenuous at best imo.
Hardware refreshes have shown to be a good substitute for this. For instance, 3DS maintained the $199 price since it was introduced in 2012 with the 3DS XL. Sony lowered the price of the PS4 earlier than the Switch probably will, at 23 months PS4 dropped to $349. If Nintendo waits for November of next year, that will be 31 months.
 

Liabe Brave

Professionally Enhanced
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,672
you know that time Aligned PS4 will account for 3 holidays while Switch will only account 2, right?
Launch holidays are much worse than normal holidays, and more similar to launch periods at any other time of the year. The comparison isn't precise, but "launch plus two full holidays" for both is more alike than I think you're implying.

"...if Nintendo hits it's 20 Million goal for the year, it will be a faster selling system launch aligned...." -Talking about sales numbers
"At the end of March, it will be beyond PS4's 3rd holiday, launch aligned." -Talking about date/length of time.
Oh, well if that's what you meant then you're just plain wrong. At the end of March 2019 for Switch, PS4 launch-aligned will not have finished its third holiday.

Nintendo handhelds sell well, this one particularly well. It's also a home console and is finding a new market there as well. We'll see where it ends, but if Nintendo doesn't drop a successor on the Switch, and it continues to sell, there is every chance that it passes PS4's LTD.
My point was that it's very most likely that Nintendo will drop a successor. GBA was doing incredibly better than Switch, and they added the DS anyhow. With an aging 3DS on its way out, it makes eminent sense to expand their hardware offerings again soon. (The new device may share the Switch name at least in part, but I expect it to serve a different use case/consumer base.)

Though I'm talking about this possible reality 18 months from now, with a possible LTD over 62 Million after FY2019.
It's surely possible...but the issue is you're pronouncing conclusions as if it's inevitable. It's merely one scenario, and not the most likely one.

Sony could possibly use Nvidia, though the chance of them doing so is slim. Their architecture is built around AMD....
That's almost a non-reason. Did Switch have to use the WiiU architecture? Did Vita have to use PS3's?

Sony attempting to compete again in the handheld space would be a hard-ass slog versus Nintendo, and it'd probably be foolish to try. But "Sony have to use AMD so they'd be weaker than Nintendo" is an unjustified non sequitur.

Sony's handheld would hurt the PS5, if it's successful, it drains sales from would be PS5 owners/people buying a second system. If it's not successful, it's still a distraction, which pulls resources, limits the games (via both scope and pulling exclusives) Vita 2 won't work.
So no matter the outcome for a handheld, no home console can ever be a success alongside one? Poor Nintendo, they've never had a successful home console.

...Is that really the logic you're endorsing?

This is not about real numbers, or real effect on Playstation, it's about what Sony might worry about in terms of Perception.
So intentionally nothing you've said can be measured against actual facts as we learn them, you just wish to bandy titterings about the psychology of Sony's execs. What keeps them sleepless in the chambers of the night? What incorporeal Fuselian imp squassates their breath to a whistling whisper? In apprehension how like gods, let us, then...SPECULATE.
 

Zedark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,719
The Netherlands
Oh, well if that's what you meant then you're just plain wrong. At the end of March 2019 for Switch, PS4 launch-aligned will not have finished its third holiday.
The comparison is actually slightly (very slightly) in favour of PS4, since the comparison mentioned compares PS4 from November 2013 until the end of December 2015 versus Switch March 2017 through to the end of March 2019. At those respective points in time (end of December 2015 and end of March 2019), PS4 hit 37M shipped, and Switch would hit 37.8M shipped if it reaches its fiscal year goal, while PS4 would have finished its third holiday already. Not that it matters too much who is a couple of 100k's ahead: both did/are doing great, and the long run will be more important to determine the final result (especially with PS4 setting a massive precedent for strong long term sales).
 

Timppis

Banned
Apr 27, 2018
2,857
Then you'll get this analogy: the scenario you're painting for Switch is like saying, "Ten moves from now Carlsen could have six queens on the board. His opponent is in deep trouble."

I will steal this quote even if no one mentions playing chess. It is still a wonderful analogy and I will claim that I made it up myself if someone asks me in the meatworld. (I won't really, but it's still great analogy for wildly impossible claims).

The comparison is actually slightly (very slightly) in favour of PS4, since the comparison mentioned compares PS4 from November 2013 until the end of December 2015 versus Switch March 2017 through to the end of March 2019. At those respective points in time (end of December 2015 and end of March 2019), PS4 hit 37M shipped, and Switch would hit 37.8M shipped if it reaches its fiscal year goal, while PS4 would have finished its third holiday already. Not that it matters too much who is a couple of 100k's ahead: both did/are doing great, and the long run will be more important to determine the final result (especially with PS4 setting a massive precedent for strong long term sales).

Thank you for this summary. Both systems are doing great and both are also Great systems. Good times to be gamer.


edit: Forgot my numbers


[PS4] 2200k
[NSW] 1680k
[XB1] 1630k
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
The comparison is actually slightly (very slightly) in favour of PS4, since the comparison mentioned compares PS4 from November 2013 until the end of December 2015 versus Switch March 2017 through to the end of March 2019. At those respective points in time (end of December 2015 and end of March 2019), PS4 hit 37M shipped, and Switch would hit 37.8M shipped if it reaches its fiscal year goal, while PS4 would have finished its third holiday already. Not that it matters too much who is a couple of 100k's ahead: both did/are doing great, and the long run will be more important to determine the final result (especially with PS4 setting a massive precedent for strong long term sales).

This isn't quite true though, the Switch at the end of March 2019 will have been on the market for 24 months and 29 days, since it launched on March 3rd 2017. The PS4 was on the market for 24 months and 29 days after December 13th, 2015. So it still had more than half of December ahead of it.

Unless my math is off.

EDIT: Oh I think that's what you're saying- this numbers comparison will have given the PS4 an extra few weeks of time. Nevermind!
 
OP
OP

donny2112

Member
Oct 27, 2017
620
November 18 has a tough comp vs November 17.
Combined hardware unit sales in November 17 were highest since November 11.
(my comp ignores plug & play hardware).
Just wondering, but are you taking into account that this is the first November retail period in a decade to include Cyber Monday? Usually, November retail ends the Saturday after Thanksgiving, but with the leap week this year and early Thanksgiving, it goes through the following week. That's got to help Nov-18 in comps.
 

Paronth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
268
[PS4] 1450k
[NSW] 1560k
[XB1] 1250k

Switch #1 because good BF + pokemon + cyber monday week with hype for super smash. PS4 #2 because Sony has probably shipped less console for BF than last year as their goal is to sell between 7.5 to 8 million consoles on this quarter (9 million last year), Xbox One #3 because deals worse than last year.
 

Zedark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,719
The Netherlands
This isn't quite true though, the Switch at the end of March 2019 will have been on the market for 24 months and 29 days, since it launched on March 3rd 2017. The PS4 was on the market for 24 months and 29 days after December 13th, 2015. So it still had more than half of December ahead of it.

Unless my math is off.

EDIT: Oh I think that's what you're saying- this numbers comparison will have given the PS4 an extra few weeks of time. Nevermind!
Yeah, the reading in the edit is what I was trying to say.
 

Benji

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,114
Just wondering, but are you taking into account that this is the first November retail period in a decade to include Cyber Monday? Usually, November retail ends the Saturday after Thanksgiving, but with the leap week this year and early Thanksgiving, it goes through the following week. That's got to help Nov-18 in comps.

Yeah Cyber Monday is one thing that's throwing me a bit off as well. I was able to pull a little bit of data for it but not much.

That could halo PS4 and Xbox possibly not be down YoY. I wouldn't expect much growth though even counting it. At best it might help the month remain relatively flat