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Sep 14, 2019
3,028
Went to the grocery store and some lady keep standing a few inches away from.

Like, dude, even without the pandemic, it's still too close.

The darn signs were on the floor as well.

I thought about saying something, but I didn't want to be a jerk about it.
 

Sloane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,244
I wonder if we will ever find out just how many people are Asymptomatic. I'm betting many people will go through this entire ordeal and never realize that they were carriers...
Antibody tests should help answer that question soon-ish. But, yeah, I do think it's likely that the actual number of infected is 10-20x higher even in countries that are running a fair amount of tests currently.
 

Dogzillaboot

Member
Nov 12, 2017
395
Sacramento, California
I'm getting paranoid about my slight chest pain when I take a really deep breath. I haven't had any other symptoms so far but I'm starting to get a tiny cough after the deep breaths. It feels like it's been getting worse since Sunday morning. Hopefully it's all in my head but man this is stressful!
 

Dany1899

Member
Dec 23, 2017
4,219
This morning a friend of my mother told her that today she is going to have a birthday party with her family (maybe friends who live near her too, I don't know the full details). Her son (with asthma), with his wife, live in a different city, and to reach her they will follow some secondary roads to avoid police controls. But they are not worried of "the controls" (not of the virus, mind me): according to her, in the previous weeks they met multiple times after all.
Well, when I find out these things, I ask myself who is the expection: I hope people like those.
Just for the record, they live in Lombardia, the most hit region in Italy.
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,935
I'm getting paranoid about my slight chest pain when I take a really deep breath. I haven't had any other symptoms so far but I'm starting to get a tiny cough after the deep breaths. It feels like it's been getting worse since Sunday morning. Hopefully it's all in my head but man this is stressful!
Yeah i'm having a sore throat for two weeks now. Getting slightly worse every day. Nothing else though. So i figure it must be a cold or hayfever...
Just keep your temperature in check and assume you're infected for other people's sake.
 

Astior

Alt-Account
Banned
Jan 15, 2020
45
Guys, is all about temperature, if your temperature is good you should not start to worry.
 

Deleted member 11046

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
942
The current mechanism the Trump admin. set up for obtaining medical equipment like ventilators in the U.S. is simply insane. Gov. Cuomo lays it out pretty bare, comparing it to eBay with all 50 states bidding on the same equipment. And then FEMA coming in and bidding on them also. Senator Warren said today that Massachusetts has been outbid three times so far by FEMA.

The problem is, if we did give all purchasing authority to the Federal government, Trump would likely only give equipment to states that benefit him politically or personally.

Yeeeeah, about that...

Some late night observations:

-Trump orders states to buy their own resources and then strategically outbids them at the last minute when they do manage to secure orders for critical medical supplies.

-Trump has vendors cut off states like Michigan due to personal grudges with governors.

-Trump sends Florida 200% of its requests from the national emergency stockpile (with more en route) while starving MA, ME, CO, CA, NJ, NY and NM. CO got a single day's worth of supplies while CA received 170 broken ventilators; Maine received barely 5 percent of its requests and we all know how poorly NY is being treated at the moment.

-Arizona is now also receiving its full requests from the Feds.

-South Carolina, like Florida, has also already received two full shipments of supplies as of yesterday.


I'm sensing a pattern here...
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
Guys, is all about temperature, if your temperature is good you should not start to worry.
I wouldn't say that at all. High temperature is late stage symptom by the time your worrying about temperature and shortness off breath you should be worrying you may have to go to the doctor. It's the pneumonia that kills you.
 

big_z

Member
Nov 2, 2017
7,797
Yeah i'm having a sore throat for two weeks now. Getting slightly worse every day. Nothing else though. So i figure it must be a cold or hayfever...
Just keep your temperature in check and assume you're infected for other people's sake.

wash your bed sheets, dust, vacuum and wash floors. basically clean your place really well and keep up with it at least biweekly. being inside a lot can be quite drying on the throat especially with a lot of dust, skin particles and other allergens floating around.
 

Gabe

Verified
Oct 25, 2017
200
Italy
This morning a friend of my mother told her that today she is going to have a birthday party with her family (maybe friends who live near her too, I don't know the full details). Her son (with asthma), with his wife, live in a different city, and to reach her they will follow some secondary roads to avoid police controls. But they are not worried of "the controls" (not of the virus, mind me): according to her, in the previous weeks they met multiple times after all.
Well, when I find out these things, I ask myself who is the expection: I hope people like those.
Just for the record, they live in Lombardia, the most hit region in Italy.

Chiama la polizia e chiedi se possono fare qualcosa. Anche due giorni fa abbiamo avuto tipo 50 persone in violazione della quarantena nonostante fossero addirittura positive. Sti coglioni hanno rotto il cazzo.

(Sorry, rant in italian.)

EDIT: and yes, i HATE when it comes to citizens being each other's police. But there's a point where stupidity must be punished and i think 15k deaths should be taken more seriously than a fucking birthday.
 
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KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,998
Honestly I find all this hairpulling about China underreporting numbers a little disingenious because like, every country is. By nature of the limits we have on testing currently every country is under-reporting their cases, especially asymptomatic people.

The issue with China is that they actively decided to "hide" numbers. They changed the way they reported the infections several times. It's one thing to not have the capacity to test enough and to rightly assume that the real numbers are higher than what you tested and it's a completely different thing to actively not report what you tested already.
 

Temascos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,518
wash your bed sheets, dust, vacuum and wash floors. basically clean your place really well and keep up with it at least biweekly. being inside a lot can be quite drying on the throat especially with a lot of dust, skin particles and other allergens floating around.

Those are good suggestions, I've been dealing with similar symptoms and I don't believe I have Covid (Right now anyway) but it is anxiety inducing.

If anyone on the thread is struggling with throat relaxation I recommend reading the advice given here, it's simple and you likely know it already but it's handy for some pointers - https://www.hey.nhs.uk/patient-leaflet/globus-sensation/

Obviously this won't work for everyone but it's eased the stress I've been feeling the last couple of days.
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,458
The issue with China is that they actively decided to "hide" numbers. They changed the way they reported the infections several times. It's one thing to not have the capacity to test enough and to rightly assume that the real numbers are higher than what you tested and it's a completely different thing to actively not report what you tested already.

But a lot of countries are doing that. Italy and France and probably the UK have been fudging numbers for the dead, which are a more important number than asymptomatic cases when it comes to determining the scale of the crisis.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,616
This morning a friend of my mother told her that today she is going to have a birthday party with her family (maybe friends who live near her too, I don't know the full details). Her son (with asthma), with his wife, live in a different city, and to reach her they will follow some secondary roads to avoid police controls. But they are not worried of "the controls" (not of the virus, mind me): according to her, in the previous weeks they met multiple times after all.
Well, when I find out these things, I ask myself who is the expection: I hope people like those.
Just for the record, they live in Lombardia, the most hit region in Italy.
Honestly that sounds insane
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,998
But a lot of countries are doing that. Italy and France and probably the UK have been fudging numbers for the dead, which are a more important number than asymptomatic cases when it comes to determining the scale of the crisis.

That's a different discussion though. I would say that at least for Italy and France is also rather more a matter of available resources for checking the deaths happening at home than actively hiding them.

And none of them is going at this point for the approach "we're solved Corona" that China is doing right now.
 

Gabe

Verified
Oct 25, 2017
200
Italy
But a lot of countries are doing that. Italy and France and probably the UK have been fudging numbers for the dead, which are a more important number than asymptomatic cases when it comes to determining the scale of the crisis.

Well, "fudging" implies to mislead on purpose. I can assure you that while YES our (Italy) numbers are CERTAINLY higher in reality, the problem with not certifying ALL the covid deaths stemmed from basically not being able to keep up.
Investigations are already occuring to try and have exact numbers.
 

sweetmini

Member
Jun 12, 2019
3,921
Nope death numbers in the hospital in france were always given as in "in the hospital"
for the rest of the death we got the excess in mortality.
In 30 sliding days we have a 6% increase in mortality compared to what we should have had nationally, 19% in paris area, 33% excess of deaths in the early cluster in the east of the country.
They are indeed late for the nursing homes (we will get the cumulative tally this week, not just "from now on"), and the deaths at home will be counted if we have the information, but huge majority of deaths are in nursing homes and hospitals, we have "free" healthcare (not completely but for this it is), people don't hesitate.
 

Antiwhippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,458
That's a different discussion though. I would say that at least for Italy and France is also rather more a matter of available resources for checking the deaths happening at home than actively hiding them.

And none of them is going at this point for the approach "we're solved Corona" that China is doing right now.

Fair enough, though I think they also probably think they jump the gun on that seeing that they're putting back restrictions they're trying to lift, which kinda just makes me think that like the rest of the world they don't really have a handle on things.

Well, "fudging" implies to mislead on purpose. I can assure you that while YES our (Italy) numbers are CERTAINLY higher in reality, the problem with not certifying ALL the covid deaths stemmed from basically not being able to keep up.
Investigations are already occuring to try and have exact numbers.

Alright, good to know that they're trying their best to make sure the numbers are up to date. Honestly though, it's my firm belief that counting the dead and ICU numbers are far more important than counting the people who are tested as far as getting real numbers go.
 

Funky Papa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,694
It's the same with the Spanish numbers, really. There are not enough test kits so they are mostly used on people with severe symptoms in order to avoid misdiagnosis, plus critical staff (doctors, nurses, police etc.) On top of that, some regions are using different reporting methodologies due to the devolved nature of the Spanish healthcare system (hey, who could have ever imagined it could come to bit us in the face in a time of crisis?) and at least one of them is not counting as COVID-19 positive those who die at home.

We'll probably won't know the real extent of the crisis until the dust has settled and we can compare the number of deaths by natural causes/unexplained deceases against previous years'.
 

Dany1899

Member
Dec 23, 2017
4,219
Chiama la polizia e chiedi se possono fare qualcosa. Anche due giorni fa abbiamo avuto tipo 50 persone in violazione della quarantena nonostante fossero addirittura positive. Sti coglioni hanno rotto il cazzo.

(Sorry, rant in italian.)

EDIT: and yes, i HATE when it comes to citizens being each other's police. But there's a point where stupidity must be punished and i think 15k deaths should be taken more seriously than a fucking birthday.
I think that fate (or someone else?) already did what should be done.
Half an hour after her son arrived there to help her prepare, a police car started to stop people driving in the same road where they live. I don't know if the reason is: 1) someone noticed or information leaked (well, she is texting my mother, and we live in a different region... who knows how many people knew there?). Then she is a person who argued with half her neighborhood, so... 2) it was completely fortuitous, after all they dont' live in the countryside.
Now her son and wife are blocked there of course, and she suggested others not to go for the moment waiting for updates.
I don't know if I should laugh or just be relived about how things turned on them. I admit I don't appreciate them for a long series of reasons (The first is that my mother cannot tell them that I am doing a PhD, because they despise people who do PhD and think they just lose time and money, ruining their carrers). So, when I found out about this birthday... I can't understand how someone cannot understand the current situation. I don't know if it is selfnishness, couldn't-give-a-damn attitude or what else.
 

Gabe

Verified
Oct 25, 2017
200
Italy
Alright, good to know that they're trying their best to make sure the numbers are up to date. Honestly though, it's my firm belief that counting the dead and ICU numbers are far more important than counting the people who are tested as far as getting real numbers go.

ICU numbers would be pretty difficult to "fudge". Also, yes, actual deaths are important. It is also important to have all the medical staff and testing labs worry more about the living at the moment....especially when you have to call in army trucks to just deal with matters of volume and getting dead bodies out of homes.

I honestly think we have been as transparent as we possibly could. To the point where, despite having the second best healthcare system in the world, i'm already seeing the narrative of "people in italy die because of shitty hospitals and doctors" creep up on the web here and there.
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,415
we have enough points of comparison that one country being inaccurate doesn't matter much. That's if China is fudging numbers on a significant scale anyway. They've had their lockdown for a lot longer than the west and a much harsher one. They also expanded capacity of beds etc...


We know these are the steps to take to combat the virus. Governments pretending they'd have reacted sooner with better info is a claim i doubt is true. No one did shit until Italy got majorly hit.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,866
Netherlands
I'm getting paranoid about my slight chest pain when I take a really deep breath. I haven't had any other symptoms so far but I'm starting to get a tiny cough after the deep breaths. It feels like it's been getting worse since Sunday morning. Hopefully it's all in my head but man this is stressful!
It probably is all in your head, being stressed leads to some hyperventilation and painful chest muscles. Like was said before, start worrying if you develop chills and a fever. If you're able to (because they're sold out everywhere because you're certainly not the first who's worrying) try to order a pulse oximeter from somewhere. Should cost no more than $40 if you think they're price gouging. I went through all the symptoms (fever, backache, dry cough for three weeks) and occasionally felt like getting short-winded with chest pain, but being able to quickly see my oxygen levels being completely in the healthy area (95%+) always helped to put my mind at ease. The same pulse oximeters you can buy on amazon or wherever are also used in hospitals as the prime indicator for whether you need to be admitted for COVID19 pneumonia.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
But a lot of countries are doing that. Italy and France and probably the UK have been fudging numbers for the dead, which are a more important number than asymptomatic cases when it comes to determining the scale of the crisis.
They are not fudging, they are hopelessly running behind in a crisis. You can't expect them to be up to date.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,866
Netherlands
I'm suspicious of China because of how virulent COVID19 turns out to be and how late they were with enacting the lockdown. Yeah it could be a harsh lockdown, but Hubei is more densely populated than Italy and slower to act. The correction will probably come in later and under the rug. I'm also suspicious of Germany, that seems impossible, sounds like they may count comorbidities as cause of death, though they still have a lot of capacity on the ICUs. I don't think anyone else is doing any fudging, just lagging in the possibility to accurately register.
 

DrM

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
Slovenia
Update from Slovenia:
841 cases (+36), 17 deaths (+2), 119 (same as yesterday) patients in hospital, 31 (+2) on IC
 

TAJ

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
12,446
Guys, is all about temperature, if your temperature is good you should not start to worry.

Eh...
Symptoms for those who have had it have been all over the place.
There have been people who only had abdominal pain, some who only had migraines, some who had different symptoms every day. Loss of smell is common.
The symptom to worry about is breathing difficulty, because that's what puts people in hospitals.
 

Buddy1103

Member
Jan 8, 2019
540
Indeed, 2 to 10 days before pneumonia kicks in if it ever does.
is it possible to have pneumonia without a bad cough? ive been sick with suspected corona for 12 days and aside from a mild cough, nausea and a handful of times i felt very mild chest pain i've felt the same until 2 hours ago when i felt a little short of breath. i read here and other places that the symptoms usually run their course in about 14 days so i was really hoping i would be out of the danger zone, but also that corona has days where you feel good and then it gets worse.
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,650
This morning a friend of my mother told her that today she is going to have a birthday party with her family (maybe friends who live near her too, I don't know the full details). Her son (with asthma), with his wife, live in a different city, and to reach her they will follow some secondary roads to avoid police controls. But they are not worried of "the controls" (not of the virus, mind me): according to her, in the previous weeks they met multiple times after all.
Well, when I find out these things, I ask myself who is the expection: I hope people like those.
Just for the record, they live in Lombardia, the most hit region in Italy.

Can't only speak for my Family, but they are strictly following the rules. Mind you, my cousin isn't seeing his GF for a month and they live 10 minutes away. And they live in Calabria, not even in the north.

SO i hope sincerely, that the friends of your mom are the exception.
 

DrM

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
Slovenia
Went to the grocery store and some lady keep standing a few inches away from.

Like, dude, even without the pandemic, it's still too close.

The darn signs were on the floor as well.

I thought about saying something, but I didn't want to be a jerk about it.
You should warn her. I had to warn several people at the beginning of quarantene, but yesterday everybody maintained distance. Also store employees are quite vocal about spacing and are controlling the customers.
 

Dany1899

Member
Dec 23, 2017
4,219
Can't only speak for my Family, but they are strictly following the rules. Mind you, my cousin isn't seeing his GF for a month and they live 10 minutes away. And they live in Calabria, not even in the north.
That's good to know. Hospital resources in the South are less than in the North, so it is essential to stop the spreading. People like your cousin are doing the correct thing.

In the meantime, in Italy they extended the lockdown until April 13:
www.ansa.it

Coronavirus: Conte firma il nuovo dpcm, proroga blocchi fino al 13 aprile - Politica

All'interno il video della conferenza - I blocchi fino al 13 aprile. 'C'è una sparuta minoranza di persone che non rispetta le regole: abbiamo disposto sanzioni severe e misure onerose. Non ci possiamo permettere che l'irresponsabilità di alcuni rechino danni a tutti', ha detto il premier. 'Non...
 

Slaythe

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,850
is it possible to have pneumonia without a bad cough? ive been sick with suspected corona for 12 days and aside from a mild cough, nausea and a handful of times i felt very mild chest pain i've felt the same until 2 hours ago when i felt a little short of breath. i read here and other places that the symptoms usually run their course in about 14 days so i was really hoping i would be out of the danger zone, but also that corona has days where you feel good and then it gets worse.

Breathing quality degrading following a recent fever is what you want to watch out for.

The cough isnt always there before it starts.
 

Majukun

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,542
The current mechanism the Trump admin. set up for obtaining medical equipment like ventilators in the U.S. is simply insane. Gov. Cuomo lays it out pretty bare, comparing it to eBay with all 50 states bidding on the same equipment. And then FEMA coming in and bidding on them also. Senator Warren said today that Massachusetts has been outbid three times so far by FEMA.

The problem is, if we did give all purchasing authority to the Federal government, Trump would likely only give equipment to states that benefit him politically or personally.


not really a strong case as much as common sense really

it already doesn't make any sense to make each state bid and made them compete, but the moment you have a central "government" that also takes part in the bid then just let him purchase everything and then distribute to the states.

you actually buy more product because the price doesn't increase, so every state can get what it needs.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,866
Netherlands
is it possible to have pneumonia without a bad cough? ive been sick with suspected corona for 12 days and aside from a mild cough, nausea and a handful of times i felt very mild chest pain i've felt the same until 2 hours ago when i felt a little short of breath. i read here and other places that the symptoms usually run their course in about 14 days so i was really hoping i would be out of the danger zone, but also that corona has days where you feel good and then it gets worse.
It doesn't seem super likely, but it is possible. We had the example of the ER nurse who only discovered the double pneumonia when someone came in for an x-ray of a dislocated shoulder. Probably (again, probably..) not something to be worried about, but do keep a close watch obviously. I think it's usually the cytokine storm that does younger people in, and would come with fever. I'm very much not an expert though.
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,935
wash your bed sheets, dust, vacuum and wash floors. basically clean your place really well and keep up with it at least biweekly. being inside a lot can be quite drying on the throat especially with a lot of dust, skin particles and other allergens floating around.
Thanx. We're pretty clean though, But it IS dry in house.
 

KoolAid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,677
Spain numbers:
-7179 new cases (total 102136, 8.1% increase, yesterday was 10.8%)
-864 new deaths (total 9053, 10.5% increase, yesterday was 11.5%)
-3388 new recoveries (total 22647, 17.5% increase)
-265 new ICU hospitalizations (total 5872, 4.5% increase)

Deaths got a new peak, but its increase is still slowing down, even if not as much as would have been wanted to. New cases went down by a lot from yesterday, returning to the increase from monday. And ICU hospitalizations are much less than the usual 300-400 we got the last couple of days.
 
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Chaos17

Member
Oct 27, 2017
769
France
wash your bed sheets, dust, vacuum and wash floors. basically clean your place really well and keep up with it at least biweekly. being inside a lot can be quite drying on the throat especially with a lot of dust, skin particles and other allergens floating around.
As someone with dust allergy, I highly recommend this and to ventilate (open your window) for at least 15 mins per day. It helps.

Thanx. We're pretty clean though, But it IS dry in house.
Turn on your heater and also find a way to humidify the room;
 

YuSuzzune

Member
Nov 21, 2018
4,863
So INPS fucked up again. Tried to login to ask for the 600€ they are offering to support us and the site logged me to another person's account.
And apparently it's a widespread issue. Big fuckup because everyone can see random people economic situation and sensitive info.
 

Buddy1103

Member
Jan 8, 2019
540
Breathing quality degrading following a recent fever is what you want to watch out for.

The cough isnt always there before it starts.
thats good to read, i haven't had any type of fever or chills thus far. although my mom did experience some chills but no fever and she's the one that got me sick.

this whole thing is such a nightmare. i remember going to the ER in the hospital i always go to here in nyc back in very early february for shortness of breath (unrelated to covid) and there were no beds for me. i cant even imagine what it's like now. its very disheartening.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,816
The media is giving Trump good reviews on the press briefing yesterday. Are they high? Did they not watch the whole briefing. It was a complete mess.

The media is soooo desperate for Trump to be a normal President that they cling to any morsel of normalcy he spits out and ignore all the other vomit spewing from his mouth.
 

Maccix

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,251
200k deaths? Am I missing something or US not around 4k deaths?

Deaths triple every week.(with ICU at max capacity it can go higher) This is a problem with many people looking at raw numbers. But that would lead to 12000 by this time next week,36000 in two weeks 108000 in three weeks from now.

Add to that that you don't die by the moment you get infected but something like 20 days later. So even stopping the spread now would lead to round about three weeks of exponential grow in deaths numbers.
 

GCX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
483
Finnish case numbers seem pretty promising. The numbers of past few days will go up because of reporting delays (and Finland is still doing very limited testing though they're slowly expanding it) but overall it's obvious the distancing efforts have had a significant effect. There's been no exponential growth for a while.

n59BzUW.png
 
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Lishi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,284
I'm suspicious of China because of how virulent COVID19 turns out to be and how late they were with enacting the lockdown. Yeah it could be a harsh lockdown, but Hubei is more densely populated than Italy and slower to act. The correction will probably come in later and under the rug. I'm also suspicious of Germany, that seems impossible, sounds like they may count comorbidities as cause of death, though they still have a lot of capacity on the ICUs. I don't think anyone else is doing any fudging, just lagging in the possibility to accurately register.

Uhm Wuhan was locked down when number were around 400-500~.
Italy was much later.

The issue with China is that they actively decided to "hide" numbers. They changed the way they reported the infections several times. It's one thing to not have the capacity to test enough and to rightly assume that the real numbers are higher than what you tested and it's a completely different thing to actively not report what you tested already.

The first time they changed how to report the number it was to include more cases (including also suspect cases, that tested negative or were not tested). Not to make them lower.

I kinda understand why people doubt the number, but as far i see they are more based on mistrust than valid data.

Honestly if their number are correct or double don't really change my life and how one should approach the situation.
 
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