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Wolfapo

Member
Dec 27, 2017
536
So we know that worldwide cases are showing up everywhere where this isn't true.
If the cases are still low, this is still manageable and containable.
Also, whatever works in China might not work in any other country due to political reasons and how the people react to specific measures.
China's extreme measure would hardly work in Europe.

Each country's health departments have their own strategies to follow, if they work or not is another issue.
The WHO can only give guidance, but they don't really have a say in what is going on in each country and I don't think it's helpful if they are called out publicly if something goes wrong.
 

Bosch

Banned
May 15, 2019
3,680
Daily update from Italy:
- 2263 sick people (+428)
- 79 deaths (+27)
- 160 recovered (+10)
Total= 2502 (+466)

Other statistics and info:
- around 1000 positive people are quarantined at home, not in hospital
- 1034 are hospitalized
- 229 in ICU (10% of the positive cases)
- the youngest person died today is 55 years old
Many positive cases are around Bergamo, I feel that there is the possibility that some cities in that zone will be put under quarantine.

I don't think these stats are positive at all, for the moment. The virus is spreading, only at the end of the week we will see if the countermeasures had some effects,
Jesus 1000 hospitalized? that is 40% of cases... It is a lot... and recovery is really low...
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
China, as the presumed ground zero of the disease, has needs distinct from other countries, and its measures aren't something that can be replicated by most non-autocratic countries. It doesn't take a political conspiracy to realize that the WHO can't suggest that democratic countries physically bar their citizens from leaving their homes.
The US government has enormous, almost unlimited powers during national emergencies.
I'm not sure the people will react the same, and obviously the political calculus is completely different, but legally, the government can easily close all roads and ports to and from a city and they can institute a full on curfew that confine the population to their homes, which is something that has been done many times. There might be legal challenges, but I suspect that they'll fail.

I don't know that any of that needed right now in the US, but I don't think the constitution is preventing this (at least not as it is currently interpreted by the courts).
 

MasterChumly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,903
You are still not telling what the mix messages are and how are they politically compromise and for what end.

I am also trying talking about what I think is a slightly more important issue than the fact that posters on a videogame forums are certain they know better than the world health organization what is the best way to combat an infectious disease - the fact that parts of the US government and US media decided that now is a great time to pick a fight with the WHO, but if it bother you, I can drop it.

You want to continue to operate under the assumption that the WHO and no country should be criticized then that's fine by me. Personally I think it's a terrible idea and people should be called out when they are screwing up. Just look at the CDC turnaround after they refused to test people that didn't meet their strict criteria.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,000
Houston
That death rate is like .0001 percent though, where their current corona death rate is 2.0 percent
this is the frustrating part. I've seen people like "its only 2% mortality rate" Like do you not understand thats 100x more than the flu? More people have died from the flu this season because more people *have had* the flu this season than coronavirus.

Another person is dying on the hill of "its super safe to fly, the air in the cabin is super filtered" completely ignoring the rest of the airport you have to walk through or the bathrooms where only 30% of men wash their damn hands or the distinct possibility that you could end up setting next to someone with the virus and the filtered air aint gonna do shit for you if they sneeze/cough all over you.
 

Deleted member 1476

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,449
I just now realized after reading the local news that the quote from WHO that people are talking about exists because of my government, lol.

Earlier this week/last week they were pissed that WHO wasn't declaring this a pandemic, and some journalist from here I think asked the organization about that.
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
Have they confirmed if you get stronger immunity if you contract it and recover?

My main worry isn't the current virus. It's when it can potentially come back with a vengeance in the Fall.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
You want to continue to operate under the assumption that the WHO and no country should be criticized then that's fine by me. Personally I think it's a terrible idea and people should be called out when they are screwing up. Just look at the CDC turnaround after they refused to test people that didn't meet their strict criteria.
I have not said that, you accused them of something that I happen to think is wrong, and you're not really arguing for your case outside stating, repeatedly, that you think you're right.
 
OP
OP
wandering

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
The US government has enormous, almost unlimited powers during national emergencies.
I'm not sure the people will react the same, and obviously the political calculus is completely different, but legally, the government can easily close all roads and ports to and from a city and they can institute a full on curfew that confine the population to their homes, which is something that has been done many times. There might be legal challenges, but I suspect that they'll fail.

I don't know that any of that needed right now in the US, but I don't think the constitution is preventing this (at least not as it is currently interpreted by the courts).

Right, I was speaking more to the sociopolitical consequences. The reality of the matter is that political considerations are an integral part of public health policy, so calls for the WHO to discard politics are a moot point.
 

Deleted member 16516

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,427
Have they confirmed if you get stronger immunity if you contract it and recover?

My main worry isn't the current virus. It's when it can potentially come back with a vengeance in the Fall.
There isn't enough information to determine this yet. The possiblity of relapse/reinfection in a short period of time has been discussed, but that could have been down to other factors. For now, it's wait and see.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Right, I was speaking more to the sociopolitical consequences. The reality of the matter is that political considerations are an integral part of public health policy, so calls for the WHO to discard politics are a moot point.
For sure.
But I also think there is a lot that the US and other countries can learn from what worked and what didn't work in other countries, and I really hope we don't let dumb politics get in the way of this.
 

CampFreddie

A King's Landing
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,957
The WHO have published their recommendations, based on what they learnt in China and what they think other countries should do:
https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...na-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

I don't think they've been inconsistent. They are a UN political organisation so they have biases and aren't going to directly attack governments in public statements, but that doesn't mean their advice is contradictory. I think they still oppose broad travel bans, since they think it harms collaboration between countries (which is their entire raison d'etre).

Their advice is basically to get ready. Have resources available to test, trace and quarantine cases as they appear, because they WILL appear. Experience in China shows that the earlier you intervene, the quicker you can halt the spread (see Wuhan where intervention was slow and took a lot of effort, and and the rest of China that pounced quickly on new cases and didn't need such extreme measures). Nowhere has reached the uncontrollable stage where contact tracing becomes impossible, not even Wuhan, so we shouldn't stop trying. Make sure the public understand the risks, trust the government advice, and instil a sense of communal duty to fight the virus by taking hygiene measures seriously.

Basically, don't be America. Don't try to make unenforceable travel bans that cause a panic, don't avoid testing to keep the numbers down, don't try to do everything yourself and ignore the experience of other nations who have already dealt with the problems, don't downplay or ignore the threat, don't have government figures give mixed messages or play politics with the messages and don't leave people to fend for themselves with no government support.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
do you have a source?
Found this -
cnnespanol.cnn.com

Confirman primer caso de coronavirus en Argentina | CNN

Un vocero del ministerio de Salud de la Ciudad de Buenos Aires le confirmó a CNN el primer caso de coronavirus en Argentina. Lo que sabemos de los casos coronavirus hoy en América Latina Ahora en Corea del Sur pueden examinarse para coronavirus sin bajarse el auto España podría elevar la...

I know people are probably getting tired of hearing this, but that BNO news account only aggregate other sources and it does a really poor job at linking to the original reporting or provide any details beyond the headline, and I think it would be great people can maybe google that stuff to find their source and post it instead.
I feel like half this thread is posts from their twitter page.
 
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Perzeval

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,570
Sweden
The amount of infected in Sweden has doubled since yesterday.

2nd March: 15 cases
3rd March: 30 cases
 

Dany1899

Member
Dec 23, 2017
4,219
Damn, I just received the information that three people (among staff and students) in the university where I go everyday have COVID-19... They are not in critical conditions, but who knows where they went in the university.. Let's imagine they went to the canteen, which is always full...
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,263
Seattle
Found this -
cnnespanol.cnn.com

Confirman primer caso de coronavirus en Argentina | CNN

Un vocero del ministerio de Salud de la Ciudad de Buenos Aires le confirmó a CNN el primer caso de coronavirus en Argentina. Lo que sabemos de los casos coronavirus hoy en América Latina Ahora en Corea del Sur pueden examinarse para coronavirus sin bajarse el auto España podría elevar la...

I know people are probably getting tired of hearing this, but that BNO news account only aggregate other sources and it does a really poor job at linking to the original reporting or provide any details beyondthe heading, and I think it would be great people can maybe google that stuff to find their source and post it instead.
I feel like half this thread is posts from their tweeter page.

Yeah, they dont link back to the original source.
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,099
7 confirmed deaths in Washington state now.

Washington State Coronavirus Toll Rises as Earlier Death Is Tied to the Virus

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/03/world/coronavirus-news.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Is California still not testing? All of the info coming out of the US seems to be either updates from Washington or "first case(s) pop up in XYZ state." There doesn't seem to have been much actual information since that initial volley.
 

LProtagonist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
7,591
So it turns out the first death in the US actually happened a week ago. Doesn't make me feel super confident that the CDC is on top of things in terms of tracking.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Is California still not testing? All of the info coming out of the US seems to be either updates from Washington or "first case(s) pop up in XYZ state."
As far as I know, we're only testing people who get really sick, people who has been in certain countries and people who have come in contact with confirmed COVID-19 cases.
I don't think anyone in the US is testing people who just have flu like symptoms.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,263
Seattle
Wow, they died last week. Sounds like the virus is widespread in Washington.

Fred Hutch scientist believes it's been around for 6+ weeks

twitter.com

Trevor Bedford on Twitter

“I wrote a blog post that details Saturday's finding of "cryptic transmission" of #SARSCoV2 in Washington State. Genomic evidence suggests that #COVID19 has been circulating here since Jan 15, but undetected due to lack of testing. https://t.co/cYmyTdU4Cg”
 

elty

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,954
The incompetence.

twitter.com

Mike Baker on Twitter

“BREAKING: A 7th person with coronavirus has died in the Seattle area. This time, the infection wasn’t identified until well after the person's death. The death was 6 days ago at Harborview Medical Center. https://t.co/IvVpdiScaM”
 

D23

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,845
I hate seeing my state keep being mentioned everyday for all the wrong reason :( RIP to the victim
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,263
Seattle
The incompetence

twitter.com

Mike Baker on Twitter

“BREAKING: A 7th person with coronavirus has died in the Seattle area. This time, the infection wasn’t identified until well after the person's death. The death was 6 days ago at Harborview Medical Center. https://t.co/IvVpdiScaM”

I wouldn't cAll it incompetence, health officials didn't know what they had. Limited test kits were used primarily for certain segment of the population (travelling etc)
 

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,978
One of the less discussed impacts, but probably the most severe, is the impact on hospital beds and equipment. May make other diseases/emergencies harder to treat due to the lack of ICU resources. 5 to 10% hospitalization rate for something this contagious is extremely stressful on the system.
 

Rowsdower

Prophet of Truth - The Wise Ones
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,572
Canada
the deaths have all been in the Seattle area. most of the cases have been from a single senior care home.

I see. Care home's are always local clusters during outbreaks.

Fred Hutch scientist believes it's been around for 6+ weeks

twitter.com

Trevor Bedford on Twitter

“I wrote a blog post that details Saturday's finding of "cryptic transmission" of #SARSCoV2 in Washington State. Genomic evidence suggests that #COVID19 has been circulating here since Jan 15, but undetected due to lack of testing. https://t.co/cYmyTdU4Cg”

Interesting. If this is true, it seems most undetected cases are mild, as seen around the world.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,263
Seattle
One of the less discussed impacts, but probably the most severe, is the impact on hospital beds and equipment. May make other diseases/emergencies harder to treat due to the lack of ICU resources. 5 to 10% hospitalization rate for something this contagious is extremely stressful on the system.

Might need to put a moratorium on elective surgeries, to add to the capacity.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
the deaths have all been in the Seattle area. most of the cases have been from a single senior care home.

True, but this virus has a high spread rate. We will not shut down like China did.

Short of the virus just disappearing miraculously it is going to have community spread in the US.

It's already here.

The strategy here will just be similar to combating flu spread vs shutting everything down. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
 

Dany1899

Member
Dec 23, 2017
4,219
One of the less discussed impacts, but probably the most severe, is the impact on hospital beds and equipment. May make other diseases/emergencies harder to treat due to the lack of ICU resources. 5 to 10% hospitalization rate for something this contagious is extremely stressful on the system.
In Italy around 40% is hospitalized, 10% in ICU. Absolutely it will have an impact on hospital beds and equipment all over the world, and it will be a really seiopus problem.
 

DrewFu

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
10,360
I'm still on the hunt to find sanitizer. Wallyworld was completely sold out.

I did get to see some asshole who took the back seats out of his SUV and completely fill it with what looked like a lifetime supply of Chef Boyardee and cereal, though. lol
 
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