Non-Binary |OT| 01101110 01101111 01101110

[Syril]

Hey just wondering, how do people read Kris in Deltarune? The human in Undertale was such a blank slate that I read the game's use of they/them pronouns as ambiguity to let the player project any gender onto them, but with Kris being much more of a defined character I read them as non-binary instead.

 

[Tezz]

Hey just wondering, how do people read Kris in Deltarune? The human in Undertale was such a blank slate that I read the game's use of they/them pronouns as ambiguity to let the player project any gender onto them, but with Kris being much more of a defined character I read them as non-binary instead.

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I'd maybe need to take another look, but I remember feeling like Kris had the same ambiguous style as the human from Undertale.

 

[How About No]

I read them as boy/masculine-leaning

Also the song that plays in the character creator is "Another Him" but I still think they're overall meant to be ambiguous

 

[Deleted member 22901]

APA (American Psychological Organization) style guide officially endorses singular they as a singular third-person pronoun.

Every day the "it's not grammatically correct" argument gets weaker and weaker. Not that this will stop people from trotting it out, unfortunately. Don't read the comments.

 

[Kyuuji]

APA (American Psychological Organization) style guide officially endorses singular they as a singular third-person pronoun.

Every day the "it's not grammatically correct" argument gets weaker and weaker. Not that this will stop people from trotting it out, unfortunately. Don't read the comments.

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This is great fucking amazing to see, I know they posted about it before but this is truly clear cut.
Absolutely fantastic and follows in the footsteps of Merriam-Webster in pulling us forward.

Also this:

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/11/...ionary-definition-they-them-gender-sam-smith/

 

[Kyuuji]

Also, loving Death Stranding atm and stanning Léa Seydoux.

 

[Bradbury]

Not gonna lie I really want that Fragile look, in special the jackets and pants

 

[Kyuuji]

Not gonna lie I really want that Fragile look, in special the jackets and pants

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It's awesome isn't it. Jacket and umbrella for me.

 

[Tezz]

Have any games with character customization given the player complete control over what pronouns are used? As opposed to selecting he, she, or they presets?

I was messing around with Ren'Py making a player setup thingy. I have sentences with different pronoun cases (nominative, possessive, etc.), but the pronouns are blank and the player is prompted to type theirs in. Once entered, in-game dialogue just needs to call those variables, which many already do but with male and female pronouns.

It'd be very easy to incorporate so I'm curious if it's ever been attempted.

 

[Bradbury]

Have any games with character customization given the player complete control over what pronouns are used? As opposed to selecting he, she, or they presets?

I was messing around with Ren'Py making a player setup thingy. I have sentences with different pronoun cases (nominative, possessive, etc.), but the pronouns are blank and the player is prompted to type theirs in. Once entered, in-game dialogue just needs to call those variables, which many already do but with male and female pronouns.

It'd be very easy to incorporate so I'm curious if it's ever been attempted.

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I feel like I saw it in some indie visual novels/dating sims like that one with monsters in high school (can´t remember the name right now) but I don´t remember the option in AAA games

 

[Lozange]

Have any games with character customization given the player complete control over what pronouns are used? As opposed to selecting he, she, or they presets?

I was messing around with Ren'Py making a player setup thingy. I have sentences with different pronoun cases (nominative, possessive, etc.), but the pronouns are blank and the player is prompted to type theirs in. Once entered, in-game dialogue just needs to call those variables, which many already do but with male and female pronouns.

It'd be very easy to incorporate so I'm curious if it's ever been attempted.

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Seeing they presets is already rare enough (I can only think of Shovel Knight off the top of my head, although I'm sure if you dig a bit deeper you'd find plenty in the indie scene), although I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered doing something similar myself for various games I've considered making...and then promptly not done that. I'd love to hear some examples too.

(It's not a game, but I know the waypoint forums did have a system like that at one point? I think they had to swap it out for just a lot of options eventually though due to...well, the internet.)

 

[Tezz]

I feel like I saw it in some indie visual novels/dating sims like that one with monsters in high school (can´t remember the name right now) but I don´t remember the option in AAA games

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Are you thinking of Monster Prom? If that is the one you're thinking of, I know it has pronoun options, but I believe they're limited to three.

 

[Bradbury]

Are you thinking of Monster Prom? If that is the one you're thinking of, I know it has pronoun options, but I believe they're limited to three.

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of fuck Igot confused. Yeah it was the one, I saw a stream months ago and I remembered being impressed by the pronoums options but yeah it still quite limited

 

[Syril]

Have any games with character customization given the player complete control over what pronouns are used? As opposed to selecting he, she, or they presets?

I was messing around with Ren'Py making a player setup thingy. I have sentences with different pronoun cases (nominative, possessive, etc.), but the pronouns are blank and the player is prompted to type theirs in. Once entered, in-game dialogue just needs to call those variables, which many already do but with male and female pronouns.

It'd be very easy to incorporate so I'm curious if it's ever been attempted.

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2064 Read Only Memories lets you use custom pronouns in that vein.

 

[Tezz]

That's super cool! Exactly what I'm talking about. I went looking for an 2064 LP where someone made use of the custom pronouns.
Naturally, they were used as a shitty punchline, but...
Very impressive! Even asking if they should be followed by an is or are.

 

[How About No]

https://www.them.us/story/sue-the-t-rex-is-a-nonbinary-icon

There are many ways to describe SUE, the dark brown, 40-foot-long, 250-bone Tyrannosaurus rex fossil housed at the Field Museum in Chicago, enjoying pride of place as the largest, most complete, and best preserved T. rex fossil ever discovered: Twitter personality, outstanding specimen, "all-caps name-haver," Jeff Goldblum enthusiast, and murderbird (a fan favorite). And, recently, SUE's friends at the Field Museum of Chicago, added another descriptor: they/them. That's right, folks: SUE uses gender-neutral pronouns.
In a world where cars are female, God is (largely considered to be) male, and other ridiculous binary gendering of objects, animals, and entities exists, having a dinosaur fossil use gender-neutral pronouns is unexpected, and that's plain exciting to those of us who live outside our society's gender-binary obsession.

But how did SUE come to be found and come out as nonbinary? Well, it's quite the tale.

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[Garlic]

Have any games with character customization given the player complete control over what pronouns are used? As opposed to selecting he, she, or they presets?

I was messing around with Ren'Py making a player setup thingy. I have sentences with different pronoun cases (nominative, possessive, etc.), but the pronouns are blank and the player is prompted to type theirs in. Once entered, in-game dialogue just needs to call those variables, which many already do but with male and female pronouns.

It'd be very easy to incorporate so I'm curious if it's ever been attempted.

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I don't know about pronouns specifically but the Sims 4 has pretty granular gender controls at this point

 

[Tezz]

I don't know about pronouns specifically but the Sims 4 has pretty granular gender controls at this point

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I've been holding off on moving on to Sims 4 since release, purely because at launch I didn't think it offered much more than Sims 3. But from what I can tell it's got quite a bit of content now. I'm kind of interested.

 

[kittens]

copying/pasting some She Ra thoughts from elsewhere on social media, I'm curious what yall think:

I started watching She Ra after someone told me how queer it is, and I'm only on season one so far but I LOVE IT. It's indeed queer af, and it's so affirming! The show (as far as I've watched) portrays gender in what I would call a binary spectrum kind of way, with the only two discussed genders being men and women, but with there being a diverse range of fluidity and flexibility and mixing therein. Characters are just themselves in a sort of gender-less way, if not a genderless way. I'm excited that the show is now adding a non-binary character to further diversify (and complicate!) its presentation of gender, though (without having seen these episodes yet) I also feel like one non-binary character is somewhat tokenizing. Why have just one explicitly non-binary character in a show that is already so gender fluid and expansive? There's a lot of room for growth in representation I feel like, and while I'm happy for these strides (I wish I had this show when I was a kid!) I also am looking forward to even richer representation in the future. As younger generations continue to question and reinterpret gender, they need media that reflects their lives and stories and shows them what is possible. Non-binary kids deserve better than one non-binary character.

 

[Kyuuji]

copying/pasting some She Ra thoughts from elsewhere on social media, I'm curious what yall think:

I started watching She Ra after someone told me how queer it is, and I'm only on season one so far but I LOVE IT. It's indeed queer af, and it's so affirming! The show (as far as I've watched) portrays gender in what I would call a binary spectrum kind of way, with the only two discussed genders being men and women, but with there being a diverse range of fluidity and flexibility and mixing therein. Characters are just themselves in a sort of gender-less way, if not a genderless way. I'm excited that the show is now adding a non-binary character to further diversify (and complicate!) its presentation of gender, though (without having seen these episodes yet) I also feel like one non-binary character is somewhat tokenizing. Why have just one explicitly non-binary character in a show that is already so gender fluid and expansive? There's a lot of room for growth in representation I feel like, and while I'm happy for these strides (I wish I had this show when I was a kid!) I also am looking forward to even richer representation in the future. As younger generations continue to question and reinterpret gender, they need media that reflects their lives and stories and shows them what is possible. Non-binary kids deserve better than one non-binary character.

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I really need to get on this over the xmas break. Thanks for posting your thoughts on how it handles non-binary within everything. I usually dislike the making of non-binary characters creatures but to see Jacob Tobia so happy kind of nulled that. I agree that there should be more than one in a show championing such things, but - better one than none atm and the positive reception will hopefully encourage others. I'll update thoughts closer to the snow time when I've watched it!

 

[How About No]

I can see them as a token (and mystified? ) minority yet Double Trouble is a cool character and Jacob Tobia knocked it out of the park

 

[Kyuuji]

Good thread w/ examples on the ways current transphobic sentiment is rehashed homophobic sentiment from the past.

I can see them as a token (and mystified? ) minority yet Double Trouble is a cool character and Jacob Tobia knocked it out of the park

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This is an ignorant one but how much of a presence do they have -- are they like on screen a lot or someone that's visited sometimes? Figure more toward the former but realise I don't really know what role the character takes within the show.

 

[How About No]

Good thread w/ examples on the ways current transphobic sentiment is rehashed homophobic sentiment from the past.




This is an ignorant one but how much of a presence do they have -- are they like on screen a lot or someone that's visited sometimes? Figure more toward the former but realise I don't really know what role the character takes within the show.

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They are in almost every episode of the latest season as far as I remember

 

[Kyuuji]

They are in almost every episode of the latest season as far as I remember

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That is great to hear!

 

[Inugami]

Good thread w/ examples on the ways current transphobic sentiment is rehashed homophobic sentiment from the past.

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With the added twist of "these MEN are going to rape your daughters". That's an even older and more vile phobic trope.

 

[Kyuuji]

With the added twist of "these MEN are going to rape your daughters". That's an even older and more vile phobic trope.

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It is like they revived the whole museum of bullshit for us to tour.

 

[Kyuuji]

Monday. How're peeps?

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[Sabretooth]

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Buy both and mix em up! Double the fun!

... is what the company's PR team would say.

 

[Kyuuji]

Buy both and mix em up! Double the fun!
... is what the company's PR team would say.

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Actually accurate lol. "Best of both worlds!! 😃😃😃👍 👍 👍 !!"


Like.. 💁‍♀️🖕

 

[Kyuuji]

céli going off on idiots and retweeting similar. No reason for it bar racism. Idk why you'd even think about changing a characters skin colour, much less if you claim to love them.





One of my fave NB artists on Twitter.

 

[AliceAmber]

That artwork is absolutely stunning. Totally going to follow.

 

[Kyuuji]

That artwork is absolutely stunning. Totally going to follow.

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It really is, it's so vibrant, confident and positive. Can never get enough of it lol.

Syril made a thread about enby creators as well that might be interesting to browse!

https://www.resetera.com/threads/non-binary-creators-appreciation-thread.148555/

 

[Dary]

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Christmas time, with its myriad him/her gift catalogues and recommendations, is always a fun ride.

 

[Syril]

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And here I thought it was all uphill from BiC for Her.

 

[Kyuuji]

Christmas time, with its myriad him/her gift catalogues and recommendations, is always a fun ride.

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Yep, always a riot
"..and as you see here we have both; for men and for women! Something for everyone!"

And here I thought it was all uphill from BiC for Her.

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lmao I forgot these were a thing, just so dumb.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/gaby-dunn/2012/08/bic-for-her-pens-for-ladies-who-cant-use-pens-good/

 

[Kyuuji]

Midweek and already be like..

 

[Tezz]

Are there any non-binary people in political positions? Or at least non-binary people running for office? I was looking through these:

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_transgender_political_office-holders

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_LGBT_members_of_the_United_States_Congress

I couldn't find anyone using ctrl+f.

I got here because I was trying to think of gender neutral words for a little personal project, and congressman/congresswoman was one I thought of. Congressperson works, I guess. I thought of "congressor", but neologisms never feel quite right.

 

[Papa Satanás]

Personally I'd love to find a prefix for work that won't get too many questions, but still does the trick (Mr., Miss, Ms, Mrs, etc)

 

[Kyuuji]

Where I'm at on the 'joyfriend' etc. things. I think they're cute for people to have but at the same time don't come at us with "omg I found something you can use finally" when partner or significant other has worked for decades. I put out cute things at times because that's me, but this trend of "aww duh widdle enbies" infantilising talk toward us as a whole is starting to become a bit too common. I've come to use 'enby' sparingly for that reason, which I get is just a phoneticism of NB but the writing of it out feels like it contributes toward that. Like we're the chibi versions of people, it's weird. If I'm cute it's because I'm being cute, not because I'm non-binary.

Are there any non-binary people in political positions? Or at least non-binary people running for office? I was looking through these:

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_transgender_political_office-holders

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_LGBT_members_of_the_United_States_Congress

I couldn't find anyone using ctrl+f.

I got here because I was trying to think of gender neutral words for a little personal project, and congressman/congresswoman was one I thought of. Congressperson works, I guess. I thought of "congressor", but neologisms never feel quite right.

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Believe I saw someone that was non-binary running for an MP spot in the UK. Will have to have a deeper look though, it would be good to get more knowledge on it as a whole.

Personally I'd love to find a prefix for work that won't get too many questions, but still does the trick (Mr., Miss, Ms, Mrs, etc)

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I'd hit Mx. if it would ever come up lol. Like looking for a shiny Pokemon trying to find it as an option anywhere.

 

[Deleted member 3294]

So spoilers for a currently airing anime, but it's something that I imagine people in here would be happy to know:

Spoiler

Props to Stars Align/Hoshiai no Sora for being the first anime (that I know of) that has a character figure out that they're non-binary. I haven't actually watched the show yet myself, but I hear it handles the subject of gender dysphoria pretty well. Just a content warning for if you're going to watch it, that one of the show's themes is domestic abuse.

 

[Kyuuji]

So spoilers for a currently airing anime, but it's something that I imagine people in here would be happy to know:

Spoiler

Props to Stars Align/Hoshiai no Sora for being the first anime (that I know of) that has a character figure out that they're non-binary. I haven't actually watched the show yet myself, but I hear it handles the subject of gender dysphoria pretty well. Just a content warning for if you're going to watch it, that one of the show's themes is domestic abuse.

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Looked it up and damn, that's really touching. 2 parts below.

 

[Delphine]

Looked it up and damn, that's really touching. 2 parts below.

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I came into this thread to post this, but glad to see it's already been posted! And yeah, this is heartwarming to watch!

 

[Kyuuji]

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I came into this thread to post this, but glad to see it's already been posted! And yeah, this is heartwarming to watch!

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💜 It really is, it's done in such a gentle manner too - without fanfare or flair, just an honest conversation between friends. Really nice to see.
I will get back to you tomorrow too <3 rush rush and gunning for the weekend atm ;__;

 

[Superbly Superlative]

Man, feel like I've been making a tour of all the gender threads on Era, but what's one more?

1. What are your pronouns? IRL, I'm exclusively he/him. I'm still trying to work out how I feel about pronouns online (this is all a very recent discovery/acceptance for me), but for the moment I'd say that anything probably feels appropriate with maybe a slight preference for female pronouns. At least at the moment, the nature of this for me means that could change from day to another.

2. How do you like to describe your gender / identity? Are there any terms, identities, or affinities you like to evoke in describing yourself? This definition of demiflux is pretty much exactly dead-on, if you swap the male and female parts in the example they give. I wish I'd found that sooner, it would have saved a lot of questioning.

3. In your experience, does being non-binary feel like having no gender, many genders, fluctuating genders, or both / neither? I always identify as a cis hetero male, but there's also a simultaneous homosexual female identity that's on an adjustable dial somewhere I don't control. When it ebbs away, it leaves me scared and confused and wondering if I'm making a mistake, but the knowledge that it always rolls back in like the tide keeps me going.

4. What's your favorite thing about being non-binary? What's your least favorite? What's something that has surprised you? I don't know if I have a favorite thing about being NB, but I definitely know that my least favorite thing so far is feeling imposter syndrome/self-doubt about whether I really am NB or if I'm just a straight dude with a kink thinking the same things that all straight guys think.

The most surprising thing had been my wife. She's not just supportive (I never doubted that), she's downright proactive in helping me through this.

5. Has any people, media, art, music, etc. inspired your non-binary self-actualization? If so please share & feel free to elaborate! This is dumb and mildly embarrassing, but I was finally set out on this path by Sayonara Wild Hearts. It's got the gameplay depth of a sheet of paper and controls like mud, but it broke me.

6. Is there anything else you'd like to share or say? I made a coming out post in the LGBT+ thread, and it wound up being a 1000 word essay, LOL. It's been bottled up for a long time, what can I say?

 

[Delphine]

I will get back to you tomorrow too <3 rush rush and gunning for the weekend atm ;__;

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It's alright, I don't mind waiting and I totally understand, don't worry! 😊

 

[Deleted member 20630]

Hey everyone! Kyuuji wanted me to come say hi after my ban lifted. 🤗

 

[How About No]

Hiiiiii 😁

 

[Kyuuji]

Loving this atm:

Hey everyone! Kyuuji wanted me to come say hi after my ban lifted. 🤗

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Hey you. Glad to see you back around.

 

[AliceAmber]

So I'm in the closet with my parents, but I spent a few days with them and nothing was said about my hairy legs and armpits. My mother even bought me a very masculine shirt! And even that feels like tiny little victories. I wouldn't mind coming out to her one day, but I'm not quite there yet.

 

[Shamash]

I usually only lurk in forums/communities, but i decided that since i'm going to spend time here might as well make an account and actually talk for once.

1 - Testing some stuff with my own thoughts, i have neutral reactions to he/she, but positive reaction to they, but i am uncertain if it is because i am a they/them person, or if it is because the fictional person adressing me is showing that they care. So feel free to adress me with any pronouns!

2 - A thought exercise i had with myself was thus: If i had complete control over how i look (and was respected regardless of chosen appearance) the form i would take would be a perfectly androgynous one, and change my clothes and whatnot based on how i feel like being adressed in a given day. The label that best describes that seems to be genderfluid, so yeah.

3 - This identity is a recent development for me, but based on 2, seems my experience would be shifting between a masculine and a feminine clothing/behaviour (not that i have any way to test this, since i am stuck living with my parents for the short term)

4 - See 3.

5 - Not really, i reached this development through self-introspection, and if possible would like to test things to see what suits me best, since i am more inclined to believe empirical/tested evidence, at least when the subject is me.