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Randam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,884
Germany
Well, imagine this. You have two areas of population. Both are the size of that red area and both contain the same amount of population. Now you take one of the areas and you have all the people move into a smaller, more dense area to live in (the orange area).

Do they contain the same amount of people and do both deserve the same amount of representation in their government?
I don't care about that. shouldn't have quoted the Picture :D

again: the problem with the US system is imo, that the side that gets the most votes gets all electors of the state and the other side gets 0. which leads to several million votes just becoming worthless.

that is totally stupid.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
I don't care about that. shouldn't have quoted the Picture :D

again: the problem with the US system is imo, that the side that gets the most votes gets all electors of the state and the other side gets 0. which leads to several million votes just becoming worthless.

that is totally stupid.
Most definitely! It is stupid beyond belief. No state is truly "red" or "blue", all states have people with their own beliefs and what they like to vote but the American election system just bulldozes all that and makes it so that the majority somehow becomes "EVERYONE!"
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
American politicians are basically just businessmen that operate by being bought out by rich companies and then the politician basically lobbies for the interest of his backers. Certainly not the people he is supposed to represent. I'm not sure many politicians represent their actual electorate, certainly not all the republicans and half the democrats. That's not really democracy.
 

Aureon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,819
Major issues:
EC is unrepresentative
Senate is unrepresentative
Congress is gerrymandered to hell and back
The judicial branch is politically appointed if not straight out goddamn elected
FPTP in general is shit, and the two main parties actively suppress further parties by keeping it in place
Campaign is overly long, leading to polarization, and overly frequent, leading to instability
Voting rights are far too easily curtailed
Voting is way too inconvenient

In general, the US is way too happy to infringe on "one person, one vote" which is the bedrock of a democracy.
The US is a plutocracy, maybe a choracracy?
 

Lucael

Member
Oct 3, 2018
326
From an italian point of view:

- How they could elect someone like Mr Trump as POTUS? We have our share of far-right personalities in here but they can't compete with him;
- The election system looks overy complicated;
- Having only two parties is something I like. They tried in here, didn't work;
- General lack of elegance and style by european standars, in communication like in procedures. Too much triviality;
- How is possible that racism is still a huge issue there with minorities people being unsafe and killed by cops?
- Too much big fuss even on small things.
 

Konosuke

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,556
I don't know how you can have a democracy if you don't even have a consistent form of national id, many which are easily spoofed.

State and Federal government is also weird, why have 2 sets of laws?

Edit: Just to add that in my country if you are a citizen then you are automatically registered to vote.
 

Entryhazard

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,843
Two party system where one is outright fascistic while the other is only slightly less so because they can get away with extorting the vote of moral agents on the grounds that even if they are racists mass murderers themselves they still technically are less than the other running party by a nonzero amount.
So literally a single party state with extra steps
 
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Dustlander

Member
Dec 25, 2017
422
Brazil
The whole SCOTUS thing makes it look like a dystopia, but it's just one of the issues with the system.

I'm from a third world country so I don't feel like I'm in the position to talk shit about the US, when my own country is worse in quite a few ways (we still have free healthcare, though). But yeah, it seems like if you're rich and white it's the best system, if you're anything else it's pretty much the worst, most unfair and flawed democracy between the developed countries.
 

Saduj

Banned
Jul 30, 2019
90
Election wise, the delegates and electoral college stuff seem like a complete mess that go against what democracy should be.
 

Deleted member 10726

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,674
ResetERA
Access to guns seems easier and cheaper than proper healthcare and the majority of America can vote for someone yet that candidate can still lose.

America has two parties where one is far-right and the other one is centrist right with some liberal figures in them, but due to the stupid ass voting system, the country essentially can only have two parties instead of offering multiple parties to represent the ideas and views of all people instead of asking most to settle for one of two sides.

So yeah, America's democracy is completely backwards ass and Trump really showed how ridicolously exploitable the systems are. Given he wiped his ass with the constitution and gets away scot free to the point that people are hoping a virus can actually stop him, I'd say it's well past time for the US to reform its' goverment but I know that will never happen.
 

Favio Bolo

Banned
Aug 17, 2020
387
i can at least say that i like that the winning party can actually do what they planned to do, unlike here in italy where even if you win you can't do shit
 

SPRidley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,238
Watching all the John Oliver videos about it, it sounds completely and utterly fucked from the core and impossible to fix without throwing everything down the window.

They really feel like a 3rd world country in the skin of a 1st world one.

Also all the excuse americans were giving in the responses of his last video when europeans were saying a national card makes voting easy and and very diffcult to make fraud voting possible.
Lol at screaming freedom just because they dont need a card with your info, one was calling germany a fascist state in those responses because of the ID.
 

Elandyll

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,825
I gotta tell you.
As a French born, US naturalized citizen.

When the judge had to play "God bless the USA" at the naturalization ceremony, crying his heart out, and the words "...at least I know I'm free!" were sung while I knew with the electoral college system there is not even such a basic premise such as One man/ One vote for presidential elections, and millions go un-represented...
It was some serious cringe.
 

Neo C.

Member
Nov 9, 2017
3,004
The US's democracy hasn't been meaningfully updated in 200 years and it shows
I agree with this sentiment. It was once a role model (the Swiss system was originally inspired by the US democracy), but while others has updated their constitution regularly, the US one is still version 1.3, maybe 1.4.

I kinda understand the electoral college though. In a federalistic system, you want the government to put effort on the less developed parts of the country too instead of just focusing on the most populated states. Unfortunately, again, the electoral college is outdated and doesn't fulfill its role (the two parties cynically just care about those underdeveloped parts during the presidential election).
 

Ramsay

Member
Jul 2, 2019
3,623
Australia
Your Constitution is kinda broken on numerous fundamental levels, and the fact that the Founding Fathers are lionised so heavily is a key factor preventing any meaningful change.

Trump will most likely be only the first President of his kind - and I wouldn't be surprised if someone on the level of Hitler or Stalin eventually takes power in America.

You'll probably need a constitutional convention if you want even a remote chance of salvaging anything from the mess that is 2020 America.
 
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Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,123
I agree with this sentiment. It was once a role model (the Swiss system was originally inspired by the US democracy), but while others has updated their constitution regularly, the US one is still version 1.3, maybe 1.4.

I kinda understand the electoral college though. In a federalistic system, you want the government to put effort on the less developed parts of the country too instead of just focusing on the most populated states. Unfortunately, again, the electoral college is outdated and doesn't fulfill its role (the two parties cynically just care about those underdeveloped parts during the presidential election).
That would make sense if the EC elects an assembly rather than a single person.
 

Aran

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
354
A sham, the electoral college is so insanely stupid and that's just one problem of many.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,129
Chile
Very very flawed. The election process seems pretty oligarchic, plus the "freedom of speech" is taken by big media to establish whatever narrative they want. That's really dangerous.

Though the democracy I live in is not a better example. We are living a dictatorship-lite with freedom of speech, though, then again, I still find the presidential election better here in the Chile than in the US. At least the one with the most votes actually becomes president.
 

X05

Member
Oct 25, 2017
869
Absolutely and completely broken

You had a good run, but presidential systems suck and will eventually fuck everything up. So, welcome to the club, I hope you enjoy your new found populist politicians.

Hugs from your southern neighbours all affected by this stupid system
Not all, here in UY we are mostly free of that garbage, and it shows
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,061
The US system takes the commendable notion of protecting the (rural) minority from the "tyranny of the (urban) majority" and solves it by giving the (rural) minority enough of a power boost to tyrannize the (urban) majority instead. It's the overcompensation to end all overcompensations. The main reason the Republican Party has been able to radicalize the way it has is because the system shields it from accountability to the population at large. Which is the very antithesis of democracy.

In the Netherlands, we have a coalition system where the party with the most votes gets first dibs on forming a coalition and we have enough parties to make it practically impossible for any one party to get enough votes to form a government on its own, so if a party got the most votes, but nobody else would be willing to work with them, the other parties get a shot afterwards. So one way or another, the majority of the population gets represented. If the coalition falls apart at any moment, new elections are held in short order. In this system, if a person like Trump did a hostile takeover of a party, that party would risk marginalizing itself since folks who didn't buy his schtick would consider other parties and the party itself would have a difficult time forming coalitions even if it did win a plurality.

The US system places a high value on stability, so it's designed to be inflexible. Whoever gets elected in November serves either 2, 4 or 6 years, no matter how badly they screw up. No tumultuous periods of having 3 elections in a single year. The senate is designed to act as a brake on popular demands. Federal judges and SCOTUS judges are appointed for life. Altering the US constitution, where many of these mechanics are defined is realistically impossible. One could argue that for a country as influential as the US, stability is a good thing. But at this point, the system is stably rotting away and its inflexibility means the rot cannot be addressed.
This is a pretty good description of the flaws and the original intent behind the systems where those flaws emerged.

Basically, the US system was designed by people who wanted representative government but were still scared of direct democracy and masses of uneducated voters. Even today, as I said earlier, defenders of the current system will probably tell you the US isn't technically a democracy, but a representative republic.
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,128
There are many issues: bipartisanship, far too much money in politics, electoral college, extremely undemocratic foreign policy. Personally I think the national models of democracy world wide have stagnated. We need new models of democracy beyond just the representative kind. Delegation rather than representation, more distributed governance, less ego in governance, more collective care. US democracy is in crisis and it is in a poor shape.


This. There's your constitution and there's your implimentation.

And your constitution isn't perfect by any means either...