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GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
Following the announcement of Epic Games Store, we saw many reactions on ResetEra. People happy for reasons, a lot of people not happy for other reasons and between them a lot of people who are genuinely puzzled about why some people seems unhappy, since normally, competition should be welcomed.

Sure, there was a lot of discussions going around that in multiple threads which makes it difficult to follow anything and this is why I wanted to make a synthetical post about that announcement, the current landscape around PC, the reactions and the consequences.

Epic Games Store and their policies:

First of all, I think I should explain the reason this discussion happens in the same place. A few days ago, Epic Games, developer of Fortnite, announced that their storefront would be open to 3rd parties and compete with Steam. For now, everything sounds good so far. A new actor is coming and promise to bring some competition on the table, which should make the market better, right ?


On top of that, they also announced something positive for developers: A new revenue cut, that would be 88% of the money for the devs/publishers and 12% for the storefront, as opposed to the usual 30% for the store and 70% for the devs that Steam (but also PSN, GOG, XBL, eShop, Google, Apple) takes.

Epic Games announced not only they'd rely on their own storefront and their own client, but that they would pay developpers to release their games exclusively on their storefront. We're not talking about new projects that Epic decided to take in and throw a bag of money to make possible but high profile releases (Ashen, Maneater, Satisfactory), published by mid tier publishers (Annapurna, THQ, Tripwire), from either renown IPs (Super Meat Boy) or renown developers (Super Giant Games).

What sort of exclusive games are going to come to this platform? Is exclusivity something you are thinking about?

Epic's own games are exclusive to the Epic Games Store on PC and Mac, and we'll sometimes fund developers to release games exclusively through the store.


But also announced that, at launch, their client wouldn't feature basic features such as cloud saves, achievements and such. While this will improve in the future, they also claimed they don't aim to match Steam in term of features. About their other policies, on top of paid exclusivity, region pricing has yet to be implemented in a lot of regions while their refund policy seems pathetic since they claim to grant only two no-question automatic refunds for the lifetime of your account + an additionnal one every year. Their storefront doesn't even feature a search function and their storepages doesn't even mention basic informations such as the kind of game, the single player or multiplayer fonctions.

Back on features, not only Epic announced their store would be curated, but they also claimed that they would provide no game community features (such as forums and guides) and reviews would be opt-in. Basically, a storefront with a pro-developer approach (or does it ? but I'll tackle that later) but one that seems to be less focused on customers and users. But why is there people against it ? After all, everyone should be for developers getting more money. And competition is supposed to move the market forward, giving more choice to customers ? Well... it's more complicated than that unfortunately, which allows me to tackle the next point about the "No steam no buy" mentality

"No Steam, no buy", the idea behind it:

Following the announcement of the store, The Game Awards were hosted in which the Epic Games Store made its show announcing that multiple high profile indie release would be released exclusively on their store, despite having been announced on Steam before, even having Steam store pages, the first being Ashen which released on the same day, which means there's no way Epic funded the game in any way to make it happen. Shortly, we learned that all these exclusive games would launch for a 12 month exclusive period.

After that, multiple voices raised on ResetEra but also on multiple websites and communities, claiming that they wouldn't buy these games unless they release on Steam. The first logical reaction to have to these complains was to claim "Well, it's just another launcher" "It's literally one click away" "It's the same game" or "There are really launcher fanboys ?". These are legitimate and logical reactions indeed when you don't really know about that market, when you played recently or never on PC.

First of all, I want to discard the idea that it's all about "brand loyalty" or "fanboyism". In the past 5 years, Steam evolved from being a storefront to a feature complete launcher and ecosystem. What does it mean ? Well, after these years, a number of important features were released that made users' experience not only more convenient, but also a lot better.

- First of all, a controller based, TV focused interface was released with Big Picture Mode.
- A no question, automatic refund system.
- A library sharing system.
- A vendor agnostic VR API, which ensures games purchased on Steam aren't locked to the Vive HMD but also working with Oculus Rift and Windows Mixed Reality HMDs.
- A free OS which led to Steam Proton, an automatic tool to play your Windows games on Linux.
- A community based mod sharing system, which allows to share and install content with one click.
- A streaming feature to stream your PC games to your TV, your mobile or your lower end laptop.
- A cloud based save system.
- A system wide, vendor agnostic controller API was made with Steam Input, which not only support Steam Controller, Xbox One controller, Dualshock 4 and Switch Pro Controller but also support all their different inputs such as touchpads and gyrosensor, to remap extensively (and I insist on that, there's no tools like it anywhere else in term of possibilities and fonctionnalities) but also allowing to download community based controller mapping.


Speaking of communities, multiple things were introduced such as the community guides, which allows you to access community made guides for games, screenshot sharing, forums which, even though a big part of the community is toxic, are often helpful when you're looking to resolve an issue, since someone might have already asked and found an answer which means less work for devs in term of ticket support, reviews on the storepage which, even though can be abused by toxic people, are also a mean to pressure bigger publishers such as Warner Bros with their Arkham Knight port, Bethesda with their paid mods attempt, Square-Enix with their Chrono Trigger port. And while toxicity definitely should be adressed, Epic way seems to be definitively worse since it's basically letting devs handle it on Reddit or Discord (which on top of that, in the case of multiplatform games, will cover 3 to 4 platforms).

While some of you might say "who cares about these features ?" well... that's your opinion and that's fine. But not only some of them are just too convenient to pass on them, others are either great for consumers as a whole or even benefit PC gaming as a whole (VR, Input, Proton). So when someone claims that they won't get a game if it releases somewhere else exclusively, don't think of it as a form of tribalism or brand loyalty but more as of a loss for them of important features and convenience, on top of them having a convenient place to have their entire library and dont want to go through the hassle of using another borked launcher... which allows me to talk about the next point.



Launchers, storefronts and cuts:

The other important point to talk about is to dismiss the idea that people are against Steam competitors. In fact, a lot of the people who raised criticism toward Epic Games' initiative mostly buy from other storefronts. For exemple, in the entire year of 2018, I bought 5 games on Steam. But more than 50 on other storefronts, which activated on Steam. Which is why it's important to make a distinction between the launchers and the storefronts. People are, in fact, excited by new storefronts. What is bad for them though is new launchers.

Because while the former means lower prices around the board, policy competition, the latter always translates into worse experience at best, broken experience at worse (Bethesda !). On top of that, it often leads to a fragmentation of your friendlist, your library and sometimes even the game community (Dying Light on GOG is using different servers than Dying Light on Steam while Windows Store version of Call of Duty also used their own servers compared to the Steam version).

It's also a burden for devs because they often have to handle multiple builds of one PC game for multiple launchers, which often leads to differences between builds (there's a lot of GOG games lacking features from their Steam versions, either updates or features such as multiplayer or leaderboards just because devs don't want to spend the money to handle two builds on PC). So not only it's always a bad thing for users, it's also a bad thing for developers.

Which allows me to come back onto the cut part and the wish for developers to change it to a more fair cut toward them. While I understand that wish, which is natural, you also have to keep in mind that this 30% cut is what allows us today to have multiple storefronts across the board. Indeed, for these stores (GreenManGaming, Humble Bundle, Voidu, Wingamestore, Razergamestore, Gamesplanet) to compete between themselves, their way is to offer discounts on new titles, to make people purchase on their storefronts.

How do they offer these 10 to 20% discounts ? By eating into their own margin. Basically, on a 60 dollars game, the developer will get 42 dollars. But to make the price more competitive, the discount will be taken on the 18 dollars of the storefront, so 8 dollars instead of 10 to make the game 50 dollars. If 12% becomes the norm, you'll never see a discount lower than 5% at launch, unless the devs take it on their cut. Which can allow me to tackle the final point (wheeew).

Monopoly and competition:

The final and last point is about monopoly and competition. Indeed, this is the entire about of launching a competitor. To make the market better. But when you look at it, what's the state of the PC market ? A common misconception is that Steam is holding a monopoly. But when you take a look at it:
They never pay someone for exclusivity. Their initiatives push for more openess and hardware/vendor agnostic features. Heck, they entertain competition by themselves by allowing devs to generate Steam keys for free and in unlimited quantity and sell them elsewhere for a 100% cut (or any other cut between them and another storefront) which is the reason why we have other storefronts that can exist. It's not because you dominate a market that you're in a situation of monopoly or abuse it.

It's not to say Steam is perfect. There are a LOT of valid criticism to be had about that platform. Midnight launches aren't the norm yet, the UI could get (well, it's going to) have a makeover. Big Picture isn't perfect and has some bugs. There are abuses and toxicity in the reviews and communities (which is overweighted by the benefits imo). There's no video sharing system (only a streaming one). They have no curation (Which isn't the reason for games not selling, since these tend to be overshadowed by other good games, but is a problem regarding hateful titles, even though curation leads to the opposite situation where devs cant even release their games and I'll think we'll see a lot of rejection with Epic Store). Competition would be needed to make Valve work on these issues.

But the problem the competition we have right now doesn't adress these valid criticisms. In fact, all the competitors so far, including Epic, are only looking to have THEIR tiny monopolies. Most of them have been around for years, nearly decades and they're still dangerously lagging behind in term of features. Origin still has no controller support. Battle.net still uses REGION LOCKED friendlists. Epic's client, which has been around for more than 3 years already (only their store released a few days ago, with barebones storepages). Windows Store is in a sorry state. Heck, Bethesda launcher is broken.

And in fact, customers should in no way wait for competitors to be decent solely on good will. Apple didn't release a phone in 2007 that had was still using a black and white screen. Tesla didn't release their first car using horses instead of an engine.

The only added value everytime was to take a game and sell it either only on their store, or only throught their launcher. Sometimes both. With next to no improvements in years. And Epic Games declarations so far points to the same result. And well, people also remembers the Games For Windows Live disaster, with the loss of that client leading to the loss of multiple games online play, features or even games.

Competition exists already on that market with storefronts and its good. It also exists between launchers and its downright terrible and anti-consumer, since it aims to lock down a product while not even looking for improvement. People likes competition. This isn't competition.

People don't complain about these competitors because they have some loyalty to a brand. It's because they want to keep their convenience, their features, their lower prices. And in some cases, not losing their games.
 
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Deleted member 15476

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,268
Yeah, even accepting epic's way of doing business for what it is, the epic store is currently a less attractive proposition than stores I seldomly use like Origin, which also offer(ed) freebies and exclusive tittles.
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
Great post GhostTrick, thanks for taking the time to write this. I couldn't have said it better.

Competition is important, but it seems that companies like Epic, Discord and Microsoft have no interest in competing against Steam by offering pc gamers a better experience. Instead, they are building a walled garden with only the most basic features, while using exclusivity to force people into using their store if they want to play certain games.

While exclusivity may work on a closed platform like a console, it doesn't work on pc. Yes, plenty of pc gamers will use the other stores to be able to play the exclusive games. But for every other game, they will still use their favorite storefront. Best proof of this is the Windows Store, which has many high-profile exclusives, yet no one is using it for games that can be bought elsewhere.

So instead of annoying pc gamers with walled gardens and paid exclusivity, companies like Epic should think how they can actually improve the pc gaming experience, instead of trying to get a piece of the huge Steam cake using moneyhats and marketing deals. Because no one will "switch" to Epic's store as long as Steam is offering a far superior experience.
 
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FaustLaz

Member
Dec 31, 2017
104
Honduras
I completely agree with OP. It's about convenience not about brand loyalty. People should remember what Steam has done to PC community.
 

no1

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Apr 27, 2018
954
Hopefully this post stops the "Its just another launcher!!!!" comments.

Thanks for the write up, its a great read!
I really hope this stops it. Since anyone mentioning that isn't a PC user or they are horribly misinformed.
 

catboy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,322
First of all, I want to discard the idea that it's all about "brand loyalty" or "fanboyism".
Em, that's still what it is. I can find Apple devices and their ecosystem such as handoff, FaceTime, iMessage etc incredibly useful but if I refuse to interact with any other devices, even if they are offering something I want, it's fair to say its fanboyism.

You basically say that because steam is good and has a lot of features refusing to use anything else is not fanboyism, which it is. For example Xbox one has a ton of great features atm, such as back compat, but if there was a game I wanted on PlayStation and refused to buy it or a PlayStation because it wasn't Xbox... well.

Maybe fanboyism isn't the correct word, but definitely brand loyalty / stubbornness / obstinance.
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
I want to say one thing...Apple did launch the iPhone without copy and paste that competitors had and for quite some time (and such a basic ass feature and they didn't get it out for some time as well). Let Epic do what they want, the market will decide.
 
OP
OP
GhostTrick

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
Em, that's still what it is. I can find Apple devices and their ecosystem such as handoff, FaceTime, iMessage etc incredibly useful but if I refuse to interact with any other devices, even if they are offering something I want, it's fair to say its fanboyism.


I literally explain why it's not about that just under that sentence.

I want to say one thing...Apple did launch the iPhone without copy and paste that competitors had and for quite some time. Let Epic do what they want, the market will decide.

And they had a better UI, multitouch, capacitive touchscreen, faster browser and such. It was lacking some features. Not all features. And on top of that, it had better features.
 

bbq of doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
Em, that's still what it is. I can find Apple devices and their ecosystem such as handoff, FaceTime, iMessage etc incredibly useful but if I refuse to interact with any other devices, even if they are offering something I want, it's fair to say its fanboyism.

You basically say that because steam is good and has a lot of features refusing to use anything else is not fanboyism, which it is. For example Xbox one has a ton of great features atm, such as back compat, but if there was a game I wanted on PlayStation and refused to buy it or a PlayStation because it wasn't Xbox... well.

What's wrong with bias or preference if such bias or preference is based on objectively "good" (or valuable?) traits and characteristics?
 

catboy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,322
I literally explain why it's not about that just under that sentence.



And they had a better UI, multitouch, capacitive touchscreen, faster browser and such. It was lacking some features. Not all features. And on top of that, it had better features.
You really don't, you just outline a bunch of features steam has and say that because it has those disregarding other platforms is fine.

Like seriously look at your own post, you list a bunch of features like you are selling the steam platform to investors.
 
OP
OP
GhostTrick

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
You really don't, you just outline a bunch of features steam has and say that because it has those disregarding other platforms is fine.

Like seriously look at your own post, you list a bunch of features like you are selling the steam platform to investors.

Read the post.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
Great post. I'm not against other stores/launchers but I'd rather have games on Steam and am willing to wait for games to come there due to many QoL features present there. I was mainly a console gamer until recently but when I started playing on PC in order to have better performing games, Steam BPM and Controller Support made the transition seamless and those are features I appreciate greatly.
 

Sloane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,244
Great post.

Also worth mentioning that Valve, for all its flaws, has always supported PC gaming, even in its darkest times, when companies like, say, Epic released their games exclusively on consoles and claimed PC was dead. So even if its mostly about convenience in this case, a certain emotional attachment is understandable.
 

bbq of doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
First of all, I want to discard the idea that it's all about "brand loyalty" or "fanboyism". In the past 5 years, Steam evolved from being a storefront to a feature complete launcher and ecosystem. What does it mean ? Well, after these years, a number of important features were released that made users' experience not only more convenient, but also a lot better.

You preferring those features (or the very existence of those features) is still a subjective value judgment / transaction. I genuinely don't understand why people are so scared to say "I prefer Steam, it has the most 'stuff' I desire" while also understanding that, at the end of the day, preference is an inherently subjective exercise.

I think we can call a spade a spade--Steam is the best because it has the most of what we "want." But that "want" is still a subjective thing (and it'll never not be).
 

Bjones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,622
I amnot touching epics store with a ten foot pole. I have steam, origin, and blizzard. And I barely use the last 2.

Ubisoft actually dies it right if you must have your own launcher make it work with all stores and give incentives to buy from your store.
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,470
I own hundreds of games on steam, I have hundreds of friends on steam. I've built my online gaming life for the past 10 years at the very least because of steams existence. It's not brand loyalty, it's just they've been all there was for a very long time and they always did their damned best to improve and respect the community. I'm fine with GOG and the fact I can download and play everything outside of steam, but why would I want to use a new launcher when Steam already has everything I need?

it's the same with starting a new MMO. If I'm max level, made friends in an older MMO, why would I start a new one and have to go from the beginning again?
 
OP
OP
GhostTrick

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
I did. Stream it's okay to cry by Sophie on Spotify


"While some of you might say "who cares about these features ?" well... that's your opinion and that's fine. But not only some of them are just too convenient to pass on them, others are either great for consumers as a whole or even benefit PC gaming as a whole (VR, Input, Proton). So when someone claims that they won't get a game if it releases somewhere else exclusively, don't think of it as a form of tribalism or brand loyalty but more as of a loss for them of important features and convenience, on top of them having a convenient place to have their entire library and dont want to go through the hassle of using another borked launcher... "
 

Hasseigaku

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,538
Are people basically okay with Valve being the de facto monopoly launcher (it's not a monopoly, but let's not pretend like it's not close) without any significant competition? Do people really want to just trust them to never abuse that position of extreme power?

I get people liking and preferring Valve being the standard, I just get concerned with the vitriol that people display when anyone makes move to try and cut in on that market.
 

Sloane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,244
You preferring those features (or the very existence of those features) is still a subjective value judgment / transaction. I genuinely don't understand why people are so scared to say "I prefer Steam, it has the most 'stuff' I desire" while also understanding that, at the end of the day, preference is an inherently subjective exercise.

I think we can call a spade a spade--Steam is the best because it has the most of what we "want." But that "want" is still a subjective thing (and it'll never not be).
Who doesn't want refunds or cloud saves or family sharing or mod sharing or...? That's not really subjective?

Are people basically okay with Valve being the de facto monopoly launcher (it's not a monopoly, but let's not pretend like it's not close) without any significant competition?
No. But the solution isn't to make a worse launcher and put exclusives on it. The solution is to make a better launcher and allow actual competition. Still having only one option for certain games is not competition.
 

bbq of doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
Who doesn't want refunds or cloud saves or family sharing or mod sharing or...? That's not really subjective?

Human economic behavior is always subjective and very rarely can it be reduced to unimpeachable objectivity. The moment you choose X over Y is the moment you create a value judgment based upon your own wants/needs, which are, again, rarely reducible.
 

catboy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,322
"While some of you might say "who cares about these features ?" well... that's your opinion and that's fine. But not only some of them are just too convenient to pass on them, others are either great for consumers as a whole or even benefit PC gaming as a whole (VR, Input, Proton). So when someone claims that they won't get a game if it releases somewhere else exclusively, don't think of it as a form of tribalism or brand loyalty but more as of a loss for them of important features and convenience, on top of them having a convenient place to have their entire library and dont want to go through the hassle of using another borked launcher... "
You are still just... stating features................ and then literally say "don't view it as tribalism". 🤔
 

Minsc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,119
Who doesn't want refunds or cloud saves or family sharing or mod sharing or...? That's not really subjective?

People who want to play a game that's only in another company's storefront vs not playing it if it's not in Steam? I want that stuff too, but at the end of the day a game's a game. If I want to play a game and it's not on Steam, I play it on something else. I don't care.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,299
New York
I completely agree with OP. It's about convenience not about brand loyalty. People should remember what Steam has done to PC community.

This. This. and This.

I don't have the time nor inclination to "fight the man" when it comes to videogames. I prefer to have my gaming library in one location. One storefront. I don't want all my games scattered across different proprietary storefronts.
 

SweetNicole

The Old Guard
Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,542
This is an ok post, but there's some problems I am seeing. I'm not sure what is going in the OP with the over-usage of bold and underline, but it makes the post itself extremely difficult to read. Additionally, when you're outlining this as some form of breakdown on a situation, it is strange that many of these points are raised without citation or linking to the referenced incident.

Two examples:

People are, in fact, excited by new storefronts.
A statement like this needs to have some sort of citation or elaboration. Who is excited by storefronts? Who are these people?

we learned that all these exclusive games would launch for a 12 month exclusive period
While I know the referenced sources here, it would be to your benefit to provide those sources so a reader unfamiliar with the situation can access the information for themselves.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,915
Whilst I don't disagree with your reasoning or sentiment, If the Epic store doesn't see a large user uptake it'll most likely be down to people not wanting to install a new launcher rather than out of a consumer-principles protest.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,296
new jersey
Great post.

Also worth mentioning that Valve, for all its flaws, has always supported PC gaming, even in its darkest times, when companies like, say, Epic released their games exclusively on consoles and claimed PC was dead. So even if its mostly about convenience in this case, a certain emotional attachment is understandable.
This. I still remember Epic shitting on PC gaming way back. Now they're pretending that they love PC gaming again only because Valve revived it.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,834
Steam is a very good service with many consumer minded features. I will still stick to Steam for the time being and as for the Epic exclusives they paid for, I'm good, I got enough to play.
 

bbq of doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
This is an ok post, but there's some problems I am seeing. I'm not sure what is going in the OP with the over-usage of bold and underline, but it makes the post itself extremely difficult to read. Additionally, when you're outlining this as some form of breakdown on a situation, it is strange that many of these points are raised without citation or linking to the referenced incident.

The segment/section titles could be underlined or otherwise formatted such to make them stand out; as of now, it's way too confusing of a read and takes a while to get through (IMO).

But I see this with a ton of longer posts here, not just OP's.
 
OP
OP
GhostTrick

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
You are still just... stating features................ and then literally say "don't view it as tribalism". 🤔

Yeah, it's almost as if the reason for that was the features themselves and how the users wants them... and less about the brand. 🤔

This is an ok post, but there's some problems I am seeing. I'm not sure what is going in the OP with the over-usage of bold and underline, but it makes the post itself extremely difficult to read. Additionally, when you're outlining this as some form of breakdown on a situation, it is strange that many of these points are raised without citation or linking to the referenced incident.

Two examples:

A statement like this needs to have some sort of citation or elaboration. Who is excited by storefronts? Who are these people?


While I know the referenced sources here, it would be to your benefit to provide those sources so a reader unfamiliar with the situation can access the information for themselves.


People complained about the lack of bold and underline :""")
 

Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
Are people basically okay with Valve being the de facto monopoly launcher (it's not a monopoly, but let's not pretend like it's not close) without any significant competition? Do people really want to just trust them to never abuse that position of extreme power?

I get people liking and preferring Valve being the standard, I just get concerned with the vitriol that people display when anyone makes move to try and cut in on that market.

I'm ok with it, more so than any other tech/gaming company at least. They've proven for years that despite being the uncontested #1 that they will still improve the service and add new things. Do they do it as fast as people want them to? No not always. There's always room for improvement and they can still work on their communication and customer support. But all of the other launchers add nothing to the PC gaming space. The only thing they do is withhold games from Steam which is a net negative for customers and makes our overall PC gaming experience worse (because we don't get ANY of the features that Steam has). Fragmenting the gaming space is a far more serious issue to the health of the overall platform than Steam being dominant is, considering while Steam has been dominant the PC space only keeps growing.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Em, that's still what it is. I can find Apple devices and their ecosystem such as handoff, FaceTime, iMessage etc incredibly useful but if I refuse to interact with any other devices, even if they are offering something I want, it's fair to say its fanboyism.

You basically say that because steam is good and has a lot of features refusing to use anything else is not fanboyism, which it is. For example Xbox one has a ton of great features atm, such as back compat, but if there was a game I wanted on PlayStation and refused to buy it or a PlayStation because it wasn't Xbox... well.

Maybe fanboyism isn't the correct word, but definitely brand loyalty / stubbornness / obstinance.
The problem with this analogy is that the Steam features that people want directly affect the new games. A better example would be a game only having a Pro/X upgrade on one platform.
 

Odeko

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
15,180
West Blue
Following the announcement of Epic Games Store, we saw many reactions on ResetEra. People happy for reasons, a lot of people not happy for other reasons and between them a lot of people who are genuinely puzzled about why some people seems unhappy, since normally, competition should be welcomed.

Sure, there was a lot of discussions going around that in multiple threads which makes it difficult to follow anything and this is why I wanted to make a synthetical post about that announcement, the current landscape around PC, the reactions and the consequences.

Epic Games Store and their policies:

First of all, I think I should explain the reason this discussion happens in the same place. A few days ago, Epic Games, developer of Fortnite, announced that their storefront would be open to 3rd parties and compete with Steam. For now, everything sounds good so far. A new actor is coming and promise to bring some competition on the table, which should make the market better, right ?


On top of that, they also announced something positive for developers: A new revenue cut, that would be 88% of the money for the devs/publishers and 12% for the storefront, as opposed to the usual 30% for the store and 70% for the devs that Steam (but also PSN, GOG, XBL, eShop, Google, Apple) takes.

Epic Games announced not only they'd rely on their own storefront and their own client, but that they would pay developpers to release their games exclusively on their storefront. We're not talking about new projects that Epic decided to take in and throw a bag of money to make possible but high profile releases (Ashen, Maneater, Satisfactory), published by mid tier publishers (Annapurna, THQ, Tripwire), from either renown IPs (Super Meat Boy) or renown developers (Super Giant Games).




But also announced that, at launch, their client wouldn't feature basic features such as cloud saves, achievements and such. While this will improve in the future, they also claimed they don't aim to match Steam in term of features. About their other policies, on top of paid exclusivity, region pricing has yet to be implemented in a lot of regions while their refund policy seems pathetic since they claim to grant only two no-question automatic refunds for the lifetime of your account + an additionnal one every year. Their storefront doesn't even feature a search function and their storepages doesn't even mention basic informations such as the kind of game, the single player or multiplayer fonctions.

Back on features, not only Epic announced their store would be curated, but they also claimed that they would provide no game community features (such as forums and guides) and reviews would be opt-in. Basically, a storefront with a pro-developer approach (or does it ? but I'll tackle that later) but one that seems to be less focused on customers and users. But why is there people against it ? After all, everyone should be for developers getting more money. And competition is supposed to move the market forward, giving more choice to customers ? Well... it's more complicated than that unfortunately, which allows me to tackle the next point about the "No steam no buy" mentality

"No Steam, no buy", the idea behind it:

Following the announcement of the store, The Game Awards were hosted in which the Epic Games Store made its show announcing that multiple high profile indie release would be released exclusively on their store, despite having been announced on Steam before, even having Steam store pages, the first being Ashen which released on the same day, which means there's no way Epic funded the game in any way to make it happen. Shortly, we learned that all these exclusive games would launch for a 12 month exclusive period.

After that, multiple voices raised on ResetEra but also on multiple websites and communities, claiming that they wouldn't buy these games unless they release on Steam. The first logical reaction to have to these complains was to claim "Well, it's just another launcher" "It's literally one click away" "It's the same game" or "There are really launcher fanboys ?". These are legitimate and logical reactions indeed when you don't really know about that market, when you played recently or never on PC.

First of all, I want to discard the idea that it's all about "brand loyalty" or "fanboyism". In the past 5 years, Steam evolved from being a storefront to a feature complete launcher and ecosystem. What does it mean ? Well, after these years, a number of important features were released that made users' experience not only more convenient, but also a lot better.

- First of all, a controller based, TV focused interface was released with Big Picture Mode.
- A no question, automatic refund system.
- A library sharing system.
- A vendor agnostic VR API, which ensures games purchased on Steam aren't locked to the Vive HMD but also working with Oculus Rift and Windows Mixed Reality HMDs.
- A free OS which led to Steam Proton, an automatic tool to play your Windows games on Linux.
- A community based mod sharing system, which allows to share and install content with one click.
- A streaming feature to stream your PC games to your TV, your mobile or your lower end laptop.
- A cloud based save system.
- A system wide, vendor agnostic controller API was made with Steam Input, which not only support Steam Controller, Xbox One controller, Dualshock 4 and Switch Pro Controller but also support all their different inputs such as touchpads and gyrosensor, to remap extensively (and I insist on that, there's no tools like it anywhere else in term of possibilities and fonctionnalities) but also allowing to download community based controller mapping.


Speaking of communities, multiple things were introduced such as the community guides, which allows you to access community made guides for games, screenshot sharing, forums which, even though a big part of the community is toxic, are often helpful when you're looking to resolve an issue, since someone might have already asked and found an answer which means less work for devs in term of ticket support, reviews on the storepage which, even though can be abused by toxic people, are also a mean to pressure bigger publishers such as Warner Bros with their Arkham Knight port, Bethesda with their paid mods attempt, Square-Enix with their Chrono Trigger port. And while toxicity definitely should be adressed, Epic way seems to be definitively worse since it's basically letting devs handle it on Reddit or Discord (which on top of that, in the case of multiplatform games, will cover 3 to 4 platforms).

While some of you might say "who cares about these features ?" well... that's your opinion and that's fine. But not only some of them are just too convenient to pass on them, others are either great for consumers as a whole or even benefit PC gaming as a whole (VR, Input, Proton). So when someone claims that they won't get a game if it releases somewhere else exclusively, don't think of it as a form of tribalism or brand loyalty but more as of a loss for them of important features and convenience, on top of them having a convenient place to have their entire library and dont want to go through the hassle of using another borked launcher... which allows me to talk about the next point.



Launchers, storefronts and cuts:

The other important point to talk about is to dismiss the idea that people are against Steam competitors. In fact, a lot of the people who raised criticism toward Epic Games' initiative mostly buy from other storefronts. For exemple, in the entire year of 2018, I bought 5 games on Steam. But more than 50 on other storefronts, which activated on Steam. Which is why it's important to make a distinction between the launchers and the storefronts. People are, in fact, excited by new storefronts. What is bad for them though is new launchers.

Because while the former means lower prices around the board, policy competition, the latter always translates into worse experience at best, broken experience at worse (Bethesda !). On top of that, it often leads to a fragmentation of your friendlist, your library and sometimes even the game community (Dying Light on GOG is using different servers than Dying Light on Steam while Windows Store version of Call of Duty also used their own servers compared to the Steam version).

It's also a burden for devs because they often have to handle multiple builds of one PC game for multiple launchers, which often leads to differences between builds (there's a lot of GOG games lacking features from their Steam versions, either updates or features such as multiplayer or leaderboards just because devs don't want to spend the money to handle two builds on PC). So not only it's always a bad thing for users, it's also a bad thing for developers.

Which allows me to come back onto the cut part and the wish for developers to change it to a more fair cut toward them. While I understand that wish, which is natural, you also have to keep in mind that this 30% cut is what allows us today to have multiple storefronts across the board. Indeed, for these stores (GreenManGaming, Humble Bundle, Voidu, Wingamestore, Razergamestore, Gamesplanet) to compete between themselves, their way is to offer discounts on new titles, to make people purchase on their storefronts.

How do they offer these 10 to 20% discounts ? By eating into their own margin. Basically, on a 60 dollars game, the developer will get 42 dollars. But to make the price more competitive, the discount will be taken on the 18 dollars of the storefront, so 8 dollars instead of 10 to make the game 50 dollars. If 12% becomes the norm, you'll never see a discount lower than 5% at launch, unless the devs take it on their cut. Which can allow me to tackle the final point (wheeew).

Monopoly and competition:

The final and last point is about monopoly and competition. Indeed, this is the entire about of launching a competitor. To make the market better. But when you look at it, what's the state of the PC market ? A common misconception is that Steam is holding a monopoly. But when you take a look at it:
They never pay someone for exclusivity. Their initiatives push for more openess and hardware/vendor agnostic features. Heck, they entertain competition by themselves by allowing devs to generate Steam keys for free and in unlimited quantity and sell them elsewhere for a 100% cut (or any other cut between them and another storefront) which is the reason why we have other storefronts that can exist. It's not because you dominate a market that you're in a situation of monopoly or abuse it.

It's not to say Steam is perfect. There are a LOT of valid criticism to be had about that platform. Midnight launches aren't the norm yet, the UI could get (well, it's going to) have a makeover. Big Picture isn't perfect and has some bugs. There are abuses and toxicity in the reviews and communities (which is overweighted by the benefits imo). There's no video sharing system (only a streaming one). They have no curation (Which isn't the reason for games not selling, since these tend to be overshadowed by other good games, but is a problem regarding hateful titles, even though curation leads to the opposite situation where devs cant even release their games and I'll think we'll see a lot of rejection with Epic Store). Competition would be needed to make Valve work on these issues.

But the problem the competition we have right now doesn't adress these valid criticisms. In fact, all the competitors so far, including Epic, are only looking to have THEIR tiny monopolies. Most of them have been around for years, nearly decades and they're still dangerously lagging behind in term of features. Origin still has no controller support. Battle.net still uses REGION LOCKED friendlists. Epic's client, which has been around for more than 3 years already (only their store released a few days ago, with barebones storepages). Windows Store is in a sorry state. Heck, Bethesda launcher is broken.

And in fact, customers should in no way wait for competitors to be decent solely on good will. Apple didn't release a phone in 2007 that had was still using a black and white screen. Tesla didn't release their first car using horses instead of an engine.

The only added value everytime was to take a game and sell it either only on their store, or only throught their launcher. Sometimes both. With next to no improvements in years. And Epic Games declarations so far points to the same result. And well, people also remembers the Games For Windows Live disaster, with the loss of that client leading to the loss of multiple games online play, features or even games.

Competition exists already on that market with storefronts and its good. It also exists between launchers and its downright terrible and anti-consumer, since it aims to lock down a product while not even looking for improvement. People likes competition. This isn't competition.

People don't complain about these competitors because they have some loyalty to a brand. It's because they want to keep their convenience, their features, their lower prices. And in some cases, not losing their games.
Great post. I'm looking forward to playing Ashen and Hades, and I'll do so in December 2019.

I'm totally fine if companies want to make their own launchers for their own games, but throwing money at indie games to make them exclusive is both anti-consumer and anti-small developer.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
In the reasons to stay steam only the only ones that I cared about were:
- First of all, a controller based, TV focused interface was released with Big Picture Mode.
- A free OS which led to Steam Proton, an automatic tool to play your Windows games on Linux.
- A system wide, vendor agnostic controller API was made with Steam Input, which not only support Steam Controller, Xbox One controller, Dualshock 4 and Switch Pro Controller but also support all their different inputs such as touchpads and gyrosensor, to remap extensively (and I insist on that, there's no tools like it anywhere else in term of possibilities and fonctionnalities) but also allowing to download community based controller mapping.
And these don't require that you buy the game from steam to work. I play Dragon Age Inquisition in big picture mode all the time, plus many more with my Steam Controller with it's steam input profiles. I even played Paragon and Forza Horizon 4 demo with them. I do wish a other party that's not tied to steam made a version that's independent without relying on any launcher though. That's my only gripe with it, having to load up steam just to use the controller properly. Linux people have a good solution for using the steam controller without steam.
 

Deleted member 3897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,638
Imo, Ubisoft deserves some kudos for their PC efforts. You would think they would just leave Steam and make their games exclusives to UPlay. Nope. They have even implemented more stuff to their recent Steam releases like achievements and cards. Optimization is getting better for each release too. You can buy their games on Steam, UPlay, Origin and key sites. They also have lots of features and their client is very good. Features like experience points, gold coins etc.

The UPlay overlay is also really great. It includes weekly challenges in lots of games, like Siege where the challenges have made me try other weapons, classes and completing them gives me more XP and credits for stuff.

UPlay is imo the 2nd best client after Steam and I really like it and the fact that Ubi is very supportive of the open PC ecosystem is great.

A pic I found of the UPlay overlay. It actaully gives meaning to the games you play and if Ubi gave me the option to not use Uplay which meant no UPlay overlay if I own the game on Steam, I would still have UPlay installed and in use.

Simply put, Uplay is great, it is supportive of the openess of the PC plattform and the UPlay overlay is fantastic and actually has tons of cool stuff that gives the games more stuff.

xsjt40cvauey.png
 
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Sloane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,244
Human economic behavior is always subjective and very rarely can it be reduced to unimpeachable objectivity. The moment you choose X over Y is the moment you create a value judgment based upon your own wants/needs, which are, again, rarely reducible.
So nothing can ever be better than something else? If a store doesn't accept refunds or leaks your data or doesn't allow you to uninstall its launcher, it's not arguably worse?
 

bbq of doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
I'm ok with it, more so than any other tech/gaming company at least. They've proven for years that despite being the uncontested #1 that they will still improve the service and add new things. Do they do it as fast as people want them to? No not always. There's always room for improvement and they can still work on their communication and customer support. But all of the other launchers add nothing to the PC gaming space. The only thing they do is withhold games from Steam which is a net negative for customers and makes our overall PC gaming experience worse (because we don't get ANY of the features that Steam has). Fragmenting the gaming space is a far more serious issue to the health of the overall platform than Steam being dominant is, considering while Steam has been dominant the PC space only keeps growing.

This.
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,507
Redefining what "monopoly" means to fit a narrative undermines its validity. There is no such thing as a 'tiny monopoly.'
 

Hasseigaku

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,538
No. But the solution isn't to make a worse launcher and put exclusives on it. The solution is to make a better launcher and allow actual competition. Still having only one option for certain games is not competition.

How good, realistically, would another launcher have to be in order to get people to use that instead of Steam? To overcome the mindshare and inertia they have on their side? I would argue it would have to be impossibly better in a way that is unlikely to ever happen.

If you want Valve to be pushed, at all, or there to be significant competition, exclusives are basically the best option at this time. Sure, if Valve was like 40% of the market maybe a better launcher could hurt it, but the amount of inertia on its side means there's not many better ways to compete with them.

I'm not saying you have to like it, but that's what it is.
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
Are people basically okay with Valve being the de facto monopoly launcher (it's not a monopoly, but let's not pretend like it's not close) without any significant competition? Do people really want to just trust them to never abuse that position of extreme power?

If Epic continues with moneyhatting popular devs and games, they'll get a monopoly on these games as well. And that's Tencent we're talking about.

I can't repeat it enough: keeping games away from competing storefronts is NOT healthy competition. It benefits no one if we are forced to use a far inferior launcher to play certain games.
 

SweetNicole

The Old Guard
Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,542
People complained about the lack of bold and underline :""")

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The segment/section titles could be underlined or otherwise formatted such to make them stand out; as of now, it's way too confusing of a read and takes a while to get through (IMO).

But I see this with a ton of longer posts here, not just OP's.

I actually assumed the underline links were all links at first. And yes, it is absolutely a chore to get through, and I found myself glazing over sections as the underline and bold became progressively worse and worse.
 
OP
OP
GhostTrick

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,305
Are people basically okay with Valve being the de facto monopoly launcher (it's not a monopoly, but let's not pretend like it's not close) without any significant competition? Do people really want to just trust them to never abuse that position of extreme power?

I get people liking and preferring Valve being the standard, I just get concerned with the vitriol that people display when anyone makes move to try and cut in on that market.


Yes, I explained why:
"But the problem the competition we have right now doesn't adress these valid criticisms. In fact, all the competitors so far, including Epic, are only looking to have THEIR tiny monopolies. Most of them have been around for years, nearly decades and they're still dangerously lagging behind in term of features. Origin still has no controller support. Battle.net still uses REGION LOCKED friendlists. Epic's client, which has been around for more than 3 years already (only their store released a few days ago, with barebones storepages). Windows Store is in a sorry state. Heck, Bethesda launcher is broken. "
 
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