No...at launch it wasn't what was promised. That's why people say he lied...because by any kind of fucked-up fanboy metric he did. He told of features that didn't exist and wouldn't exist for a year or more.And more
Edit: I dont understand the wording to this question?
There wasn't much if anything promised at launch. Funnily enough the problem with the game was he basically designed his entire focus of the game about exploration and setting your own sights on what was possible because he was so damn cryptic exactly what to expect as it was meant to be explored in game (He characterized constantly in interviews the algorithm was changing as they were building and tesing, but never said what was or was not possible for release). His problem is he was constantly talking about what he wanted to make and the means of which he hoped to achieve it, but it was often characterized as "That is going to be in the game" by the community. He made the small development mistake of showing literal concept work as trailers for the game without giving enough info on what to actually expect for the final project and what should be in at release there by making people 'think' everything shown was going to ultimately be in the game since they weren't warned otherwise. I was part of the group that followed the game since its inception, played the game when it released and still play the game now. The topic of this thread is Sean Murray had the exact opposite problem this thread is about leading up to the release. He promised a vision but never promised anything about what to expect at release. This in turn lead to what people believe him to be a scam or con artist, because in light of no 'actual' promises of what was supposed to be in the game they took literally everything they showed as "That will be in at launch or game".
Now we know ultimately the reasons it ended up this way, and as Sean said in subsequent other interviews he definitely wishes he had done things differently. One of the things he has learned and in fact is talking about in this topic is people care about being given something that is promised, and not just shown 'what could be'. We still don't know the 3rd pillar in the beyond update likely because they are hammering out what the final features are going to be at launch, and not what they are working conceptually like he did marketing the actual game.
the "ouch my balls" one clearly
You didnt read my previous posts that contaied reason, context, and literally video links. Soooo...No...at launch it wasn't what was promised. That's why people say he lied...because by any kind of fucked-up fanboy metric he did. He told of features that didn't exist and wouldn't exist for a year or more.
If you want to defend the game based on what it became, that's fine - but the idea that Sean Murray didn't lie prior to launch? That's just clearly indefensible. The game that launched wasn't the game he sold people on in multiple interviews in months leading up to launch.
Wow, he said in ONE VIDEO that he was lying about what was in the game? Well that's ok then...You didnt read my previous posts that contaied reason, context, and literally video links. Soooo...
I think he actually well executed it.I completely disagree with him. The quickest way to kill faith in any product is to shut up about it.
I can understand that people are angry and won't believe your excuses, but you need to make those promises that it'll improve. A big developer/publisher staying silent only signals that even they have lost confidence in the product, and will probably scare off any people currently playing, especially important if this is an online GaaS.
No, he absolutely didn't. Take yourself elsewhere, i'm sure there is an Epic store thread around here than could use you.
My bad man, won't quote you again. :)Firstly, fuck off. Secondly, I asked not to be quoted precisely so I wouldn't be pinged, so y'know, good job piecing that together.
Firstly, fuck off. Secondly, I asked not to be quoted precisely so I wouldn't be pinged, so y'know, good job piecing that together.
I have literally never seen him admit to lying about what was in the game.
I've seen him obliquely reference the pressures of promoting an indie game to a mainstream audience and the personal toll of having his every utterance scrutinized by an unfeeling mob, but I've never seen him actually and directly fess up to the very obvious lies and obfuscation that people were most angry about--and what's more, I've never seen a single press outlet ever ask that question head-on.
That's what intrigues me about this situation more than anything else--like, isn't anyone, anyone in the gaming press the least bit curious about the situation? Are they unable to separate these questions from sentiments about toxic entitlement or whatever? Is he literally refusing interviews unless they forego such questions?
Now you're just being disingenuous lmao. "So what if he said in an actual interview that not everything would be possible in the game at launch and that they would be making the game for years after release. HE LIED OR SOMETHING!"Wow, he said in ONE VIDEO that he was lying about what was in the game? Well that's ok then...
Clearly you have a far different bar to clear as to what 'honesty' is. Suffice it to say very few people share that. Maybe it has to do with the YouTube channel you've dedicated yourself to.
My point is, they dont five a shit about your entitled BS. It's been 3 years yall. Let it go lol
I'm saying that people somehow wanna keep dogpiling Murray years after launch, not knowing the facts, context, or difference between a small self-funding studio almost cratering financially, and a AAA studio that has all the money it needs to delay and launch complete. The two shouldnt be part of the same conversation.You're saying this in response to a recent talk that Sean Murray did on this very subject. Kinda weird to tell people to stop responding to the subject at hand. Cute pic btw.
The amount of shit they said would be in the game that wasn't is pretty hard to call 'fiction' lolIt's not surprising that people disagree with Murray's comments, but the levels of entitlement demonstrated by many individuals is truly astonishing. Also delusional with a bit of sad thrown in. I'm trying to envision the daily struggles of a person who can still muster the strength and dedication to carry a sputtering torch of spiteful, blame-laden speculative fiction after three years.
Now you're just being disingenuous lmao. "So what if he said in an actual interview that not everything would be possible in the game at launch and that they would be making the game for years after release. HE LIED OR SOMETHING!"
Lol I'd say that qualifies me to speak on the topic Infinitely more than you. I've given more information than your empty generalities. You sailed right past every argument I made, while you continued to trot out what reads like cynical YouTube comments on YongYea's channel. Sorry, your personal slights suggesting I'm unfairly biased towards it, try watching it first or I couldn't care less what you say, respectfullyYou're doggedly running down anyone that dares to say he lied, while you run a No Man's Sky centric YouTube channel. Who's being disingenuous here?
You're doggedly running down anyone that dares to say he lied, while you run a No Man's Sky centric YouTube channel. Who's being disingenuous here?
I literally brought that up myself. Not sure why were treating that as a mystery or a gotcha somehow. It's on the previous page.I just had to check if this was true, and he does in fact have a No Man's Sky youtube channel, that's fucking hilarious xD
I literally brought that up myself. Not sure why were treating that as a mystery or a gotcha somehow. It's on the previous page.
Like and subscribe haters 🤩
Also a fun fact- I've been PLENTY critical I'd post links but I'm unsure of the rules
you're right - he expressed "There are a lot of things around launch that I regret, or that I would do differently. " oh and "We definitely messed up a whole bunch of communication. I've never liked talking to the press."
thats the closest thing you get. nobody seems to want to actually address the elephant in the room
has he ever addressed the things he said like this
or this
thats why im bemused to see him championing himself as some sort of PR strategist - most people don't make ludcrious lies like that about their games. Molyneux is probably one other i can think of. You dug yourself out of the hole you put youself in, congrats.
Then communicate that fact. Before release.All of those things were present in the build of the game at the time of these statements. Things changed.
All of those things were present in the build of the game at the time of these statements. Things changed. This is why most studios are insanely tight lipped about their projects up until release, because shit changes and gamers can be petty children who lack any serious rationale. Most studios also don't loose the majority of their game in a flood.
Is your relentless resentment towards these people that important to you that you can't just let it go? ("You" being everyone in this thread who, after three years, is still unreasonably bitter about a video game).
All of those things were present in the build of the game at the time of these statements. Things changed. This is why most studios are insanely tight lipped about their projects up until release, because shit changes and gamers can be petty children who lack any serious rationale. Most studios also don't loose the majority of their game in a flood.
Is your relentless resentment towards these people that important to you that you can't just let it go? ("You" being everyone in this thread who, after three years, is still unreasonably bitter about a video game).
Given all the things it's clear he lied about - call it exaggerated if 'lie' offends you...you REALLY believe that actual planetary motion and atmospheric diffraction (and element specific to boot) were in the game when he claimed they were, but they just took them out for some reason?
Really?
Many of us dissociate the inability to get everything they wanted at launch and delay the game further, from the communication ( or lack of ) about those missing elements... before the release.God damn. Some people are absolutely incapable of moving on and letting go.
God damn. Some people are absolutely incapable of moving on and letting go.
NMS had a terrible launch. Yeah, it is known. It is also known that Hello Games ran into some pretty crushing roadblocks for a small indie studio to deal with that would have generally destroyed a studio (ie, the flood that wiped out their offices, forcing them to lose thousands of man hours that would have otherwise been spent on working on the game, running out of money, causing Murray to have to sell his home to continue funding development, etc), yet they still managed to release a functioning game that was light on promised features.
If it was an EA or Activision, yeah, I'd have been pretty pissed if they released an incomplete game. But it was more understandable that a studio of roughly 14 people weren't able to deliver every single little thing they showcased prior to launch (and also taking into consideration that games change quite a fair amount from concept to execution, even late in development. "kill your darlings" doesn't just apply to writing scripts/stories). Let alone a studio that was hit by a massive flood, and were running out of money. Yes, Sony was providing marketing, but that's the thing: that money was for marketing, not development. Anyone that was interested in engaging with the development of NMS in good faith would know that Sean Murray was very candid about what happened with NMS during development, especially after it launched so poorly, and the setbacks they faced, and the hard decisions they had to make. No developer wants to release an unfinished product. Anyone that knows how difficult game development is, and how, even with big studios with hundreds of employees, schedules and deadlines, and costs can take unexpected turns. The value of man hours, especially when your team is already very small, cannot be stressed enough. For a team of hundreds, man hours are important to track and manage, sure. For a team of a dozen? Man hours are vital. Every hour that isn't being spent on the game's development can affect the process in huge, even devastating ways.
Think about it: You have a studio of 14 people, working anywhere from 8-16 hours a day, 5 days a week. Minimum, that's 560 hours a week being put into your project (8 hour shift, not including overtime/crunch time hours). Now, imagine that your office was hit with a flood, and you lose 2-4 weeks of progress on your project while your whole studio relocates/recovers from the flood. That's thousands of man hours lost on your project (not to mention the cost of replacing damaged equipment, setting up shop in a new location and/or waiting for the current location to be repaired eats into development budget; time and money). Hours of coding, debugging, art asset creation, feature brainstorming and design sessions, etc, is lost and can't be made up for unless you delay the project. It's no surprise that things fell behind schedule. And with money running out, you literally can't afford to delay the game to implement all of the planned features, so you do the best you can with the time you have, but also have to make some executive decisions, sometimes at the last minute. So they released the game in the most "complete" state they could at the time, and were probably praying to the gods that the community would enjoy what was released, the game would be successful enough to keep the lights on long enough to continue to iterate on the game and refine it, polish it, and add features.
Fortunately for Hello Games, both scenarios happened, and they were able to continue to build on the game and improve it. It is most certainly a different beast than it was at launch, and that's rightfully praised and commendable that they were able to take that success and faith the community put into them, and pour it right back into the game. Hello Games could have just called it a day after the game sold so well, and just tucked their tail between their legs and faded into obscurity/retirement, laughing at the "poor saps" that spent money on their unfinished game. They didn't do that. They released the game, and went right back to work addressing the many criticisms thrown at the current state of the game.
He had already said numerous times that they had a lot of post launch support they wanted to bring to the game a'la Minecraft, so that part was always expected. It was just unfortunate that the perfect storm of being a tiny team with an ambitious goal, a literal natural disaster, and dwindling funds all coalesced to make the release of the game a nightmare. If you thought it was a nightmare for you, as a consumer, it was an infinitely worse nightmare for the studio that just wanted to make an awesome game that met their own expectations, let alone the expectations of a ravenous fanbase.
Game development is hard. Sometimes soul-crushingly hard, and I'll always have empathy for stories like Hello Games. And I'll always respect a developer that manages to take it on the chin and turn it around. There aren't a lot that can do that, or have done it in the past. Hello Games took a nightmare of a development situation, and managed to turn it around. That's awesome.
I'd be interested in seeing a list comparing the "expected" launch day features, and the current list of actual, in game features they've added post launch. They put in a ton of work in getting No Man's Sky to where they want it to be, and yet they still aren't done adding to the game. I've been following its development since its reveal, and I've enjoyed it since launch, but it really has come a long way. I think people that haven't been following its progress, and that will approach the game in good faith, would be impressed at what they've turned it into. Definitely more than was promised in their initial reveal for sure.
All of this for FREE. I've been with this game day one. I was PISSED at launch. But Sean and this crew doesnt strike me as the type that would blatantly lie. By ommission maybe? Absolutely. But I dont believe they deserve the ire, death threats, and stigma they got. By people who dont know the what's and the whys and dont care to. But that's the internet.
All of those things were present in the build of the game at the time of these statements. Things changed. This is why most studios are insanely tight lipped about their projects up until release, because shit changes and gamers can be petty children who lack any serious rationale. Most studios also don't loose the majority of their game in a flood.
Is your relentless resentment towards these people that important to you that you can't just let it go? ("You" being everyone in this thread who, after three years, is still unreasonably bitter about a video game).
I just don't think it's worth the energy to hold onto such seething hatred for a botched launch. If you passed on the game, fine. If you bought the game and feel deceived and scammed, fine. But at some point you just have to let it go and move on. I've certainly been burned by games in the past. It sucks, and it's awful and frustrating, but I could barely recall most of them at this point. But people are certainly free to feel how they feel, whether they love NMS or loathe it.
It's my belief at this point that much of the game that we were pitched was intact, but not ready. So instead of releasing a broken game, they chose to release an incomplete one. Sean went on record multiple times that each team member had their own build if the game on separate servers, and a master build of the game on a central server. The separate builds were for testing individual features preparing them for implementation to the main build.
- Sean leaves cushy AAA job at Criterion
- Sells his home to float a 4 person indie studio with his wife, a Lionhead developer and 3 of his friends
- Creates 2 moderately successful indie games (Joe Danger 1&2)
- Expanses studio slightly to just under a dozen people
- Sections off 4 people to create a secret ambitious project called "project skyscraper" while the rest of the team supports and re-releases Joe danger on various other platforms like Mobile
- This lasts for a whole year until the rest of the team is brought in
- No Mans Sky, a game Sean was already nervous about showing because "people wouldnt understand it", is revealed to the world, on the worst Gaming Awards show in history at the time (VGX)
- Was basically game of the show
- Shortly after, Hello Games is destroyed by the Guildford floods (On Christmas Eve)
- Sean described it as a total loss, but the game data was backed up off site. But he stated that "I'd be lying if I said there werent any set backs."
- Months of silence. Then Sean shows up at Sony E3, the team revitalized, with Two new trailers
- Then again at PSX 2014, again at E3 2015.
- No Mans Sky delayed from its June 2016 release date into August.
- Team crunches hard in the final weeks, running out of money with little-to-no extra support
- Launches on August 9th 2016, a very different game. This is where we enter Conjecturesville
I think they stripped out the incomplete features, down to a bare bones early access build, keeping the other features in the oven. most if these features have been implemented into the game already post-launch. Other promised features were scrapped.
One of these advertised features were "giant snakes". They were removed because they werent fun. That happens in video games. They also removed planet rotation and orbit because they focus-tested poorly. People didnt enjoy feeling lost after landing on a planet and then leaving. Stupid if you ask me, but whatever.
Since the game's launch, theyve added not only much of what was promised, but that only accounts for like 1/3 of the additional content the game recieved post-launch.
We also got
Were also getting
- Base building
- Owning freighters
- 4 player co-op
- Multiple vehicle types (4 land, 1 sea)
- A 30 hour story campaign
- A gigantic graphics overhaul (the game looks wildly different now aesthetically)
- Third person view angles with FOV sliders
- Exotic ship types
- Many New planet types
- Expanded trading and Galactic map enhancements
- Combat overhaul
All of this for FREE. I've been with this game day one. I was PISSED at launch. But Sean and this crew doesnt strike me as the type that would blatantly lie. By ommission maybe? Absolutely. But I dont believe they deserve the ire, death threats, and stigma they got. By people who dont know the what's and the whys and dont care to. But that's the internet.
- Full VR support
- MMO like No Man's Sky Online mode
- As of yet unannounced 3 pillar of the new upcoming update
Not my point. It's about intent. Folks in this thread (and over the last 3 years) are out here thinking Sean had the intent on blatantly and egregiously misleading yall while twisting his mustache and going Mwaaaahahahah.I mean....is nice that the game is now great, nobody deserves death threats or anything like that for any reason. But the guy makes crazy mistakes the fact that hi sold his house or whatever doesn't mean that we need to forget about what he did, and the fact that we talk about it doesn't mean that anybody here hate sean Murray
Saying that Murray actually did Lie is not something about hate or anything like that, that's a fact. I don't hate the guy I don't know him but he is not the best one to give advice on this matter because he mess up his own game pretty damn bad. I don't know how somebody thinks that is a good idea to stay quiet when you are selling something that is not even close to the final product that you promise to deliver.
Why are you people defending and talking about how many contents he is given away for "free"...tbh did you expect people to pay more money for the content that he has been releasing for 3 years to fix the game? and we should be cheering about that or forget and not talk about it?
C'mon
Done.legacyzero I think you should add Pro/Xbox 4K/HDR patches and ports.
Massive companies like Rockstar and Capcom haven't done this for ongoing games like GTAV Online and Street Fighter V so i feel this is worth mentioning here.
Not my point. It's about intent. Folks in this thread (and over the last 3 years) are out here thinking Sean had the intent on blatantly and egregiously misleading yall while twisting his mustache and going Mwaaaahahahah.
It's not that simple. But I'm not surprised folks feel that way while drinking up wholesome cynical content from negativity YouTube trends. I hardly believe a man who sold his home after leaving a AAA studio job with a mega publisher set out to deliberately mislead you people. Theres more to it that that.
I think we can absolutely accuse Sean Murray of lying by omission. Sure.
But he didnt set out with that intent and I'll defend that vehemently. Theres just no evidence of cynical motivations IMO
Done.
To be fair, this was done shortly after the Pro launched and well before One X. Where as games like GTAV are legacy titles I'm not sure why they havnt.
WHERES MY PRO PATCH FOR BLOODBORNE, FROM?!
I mean....is nice that the game is now great, nobody deserves death threats or anything like that for any reason. But the guy makes crazy mistakes the fact that hi sold his house or whatever doesn't mean that we need to forget about what he did, and the fact that we talk about it doesn't mean that anybody here hate sean Murray
Saying that Murray actually did Lie is not something about hate or anything like that, that's a fact. I don't hate the guy I don't know him but he is not the best one to give advice on this matter because he mess up his own game pretty damn bad. I don't know how somebody thinks that is a good idea to stay quiet when you are selling something that is not even close to the final product that you promise to deliver.
Why are you people defending and talking about how many contents he is given away for "free"...tbh did you expect people to pay more money for the content that he has been releasing for 3 years to fix the game? and we should be cheering about that or forget and not talk about it?
C'mon
Sometimes I wonder if it's me. I devoured every bit of content about no man's sky before release, watched every video, read every article and tweet. The game I got was exactly the game is was expecting.
It's still surprising to me that so many people apparently got something entirely different and didn't get half the stuff they were expecting. Maybe I missed some stuff, but I don't think so. And the idea that HG and Murray were scam artists is patently absurd.
So on topic, I think silence was the best policy for HG given the size of the team and the ferocity of the ire against them. There was literally nothing they could have said that would have appeased the angry mob - I mean look, 3 years later and people on here are still super pissy about it, it's pathetic. At the time, HG did absolutely the right thing by disengaging from the negativity.
Is silence the best policy for Anthem though, not sure - but if you're going to communicate you need to be very sure you can deliver. FO76 as far as I know has hit every goal and deadline that Bethesda claimed, so all good. Anthem though, I think their roadmap has been missed? Which to me erodes confidence more than a wall of silence could.